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SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Jun 25 2011, 06:04 PM) *
better late then never...

Sweat Pea (personal Fav)
Robinson
ALI
Marciano
RJJ
Sugar Ray Robinson and Leonard

Mayweather
BHop
Toney
Winky
JuanManuel Marquez (pretty underrated IMO)

... i also like E. Augustus. i loved watchin him weave and kicc a leg up. His defense wasnt GREAT but unorthodox and fun to watch. Holmes, Duran and Marciano get the Honorable mention.

Andre Ward, Sergio Martinez, and Dirrell get Honorable Mention for my Current Fighters

Interesting. I just can't count Winky and The Burger King active though, or I would have had them on my list.
iKeNjiro
This is just my complete list no order...I did however put the retired people 1st

#1 Ali (Greatest of All Time Across the board in an out of the ring)

Sweet Pea (beast)
Emanuel Augustus (puppet master...nuff said)
James Toney
Jack Johnson
Roy Jones Jr. (like everyone else said, had to be the best next to Ali as far as reflexes go)

Willie Pep
Sugar ray Robinson (must have been doing something right with a record like his)
Mike Tyson (in his prime)
Sugar Ray Leonard was good as well

BHop (lots of different things he can do to throw a fighter off, good defender)
Floyd Mayweather jr. (easy call highest hit to no hit ratio in the history of the sport)
Winky Wright (even though he got destroyed by Paul Williams he and Taylor knotted his eye up still a top defender)

Prince Naseem (even though he mostly fought D & C level fighters, he had really good reflexes and defense...wish he fought someone good, we saw what Barrera did to him)

check this montage out of the puppet master who is one of my All Time Fav. Defenders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyCqbLfv9ug

I went two over and clearly didn't follow instructions but this is my All Time Best Defender list IMO
Ali of course being number 1, the rest have no order
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 25 2011, 08:08 PM) *
Interesting. I just can't count Winky and The Burger King active though, or I would have had them on my list.


Yea i debated on that too. I honestly had no idea if Winky was even active. LOL
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (iKeNjiro @ Jun 26 2011, 08:04 AM) *
This is just my complete list no order...I did however put the retired people 1st

#1 Ali (Greatest of All Time Across the board in an out of the ring)

Sweet Pea (beast)
Emanuel Augustus (puppet master...nuff said)
James Toney
Jack Johnson
Roy Jones Jr. (like everyone else said, had to be the best next to Ali as far as reflexes go)

Willie Pep
Sugar ray Robinson (must have been doing something right with a record like his)
Mike Tyson (in his prime)
Sugar Ray Leonard was good as well

BHop (lots of different things he can do to throw a fighter off, good defender)
Floyd Mayweather jr. (easy call highest hit to no hit ratio in the history of the sport)
Winky Wright (even though he got destroyed by Paul Williams he and Taylor knotted his eye up still a top defender)

Prince Naseem (even though he mostly fought D & C level fighters, he had really good reflexes and defense...wish he fought someone good, we saw what Barrera did to him)

check this montage out of the puppet master who is one of my All Time Fav. Defenders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyCqbLfv9ug

I went two over and clearly didn't follow instructions but this is my All Time Best Defender list IMO
Ali of course being number 1, the rest have no order



Beautiful list. Naseem was one of my fav too! But deff loved Augustus. Glad someone else appreciated his work!
scallum
Pernell- Benitez-Pbf- PeP- Toney
kidbazooka1
Whitaker
Mayweather

Are the best ever IMO as for Pep i could only go by what i've read and seen of him on film and to me he wasn't better than Pea or whitaker.
Snoop
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 24 2011, 02:16 PM) *
Good lists.

The reason I did this thread is I started going back and checking out retired boxers again thanks to the thread asking whether Tszyu deserved to be in the IBHOF.

The tough part is choosing the top 5 because there are many great defensive fighters. Most must be left out.

Willie Pep
230(65)-11-1

Nicolino Locche
117(14)-4(1)-14

Carlos Monzon
87(59)-3-9

Muhammed Ali
56(37)-5

Wilfred Benitez
53(31)-8-1

I'm glad someone mentioned Nicolino Locche. Dude's defensive was ridiculous in his day.
and the NEW
LOL, I can't believe some of you bought into the Judah hype of the 'reformed' man. He was and always will be, soft. His defensive is terrible, that jab is sloppy as hell. He relies on good reflexes but nothing else is great.

Best defensive I have seen (there are many different types):

Floyd Mayweather Jr (here is a guy who can use his defence in the pocket and actually use it to absorb energy and then counter like nobody I have ever seen before).

James Toney (much like Floyd as far as absorbing the energy and then re-directing it). Unfortunately, the guy couldn't go on the front foot in the same manner as Floyd.

Locche (need I say more, couldn't break an egg but he would just make fools of his opposition).

Roy Jones Jr (perhaps the most athletic man that has ever graced the planet, without the best technique, he got away with just about anything due to his superior athletacism and barely had to take a punch over a good decade period).

BHOP (I never liked this guy and never will, but even I have been humbled at just how this guy does it. The master of snooze but he always manages to lul his opponents to sleep. Probably the most cagey fighter I have ever seen).

Willie Pep (need I say more).

Pernell Whitaker (both defensive wizard and cagey).

Fukced if I can tell what Jack Johnson is doing in there from that old footage but I will take the old timers word for his prowess.

Joe Gans + Benny Leonard.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (and the NEW @ Jul 25 2011, 05:17 PM) *
LOL, I can't believe some of you bought into the Judah hype of the 'reformed' man. He was and always will be, soft. His defensive is terrible, that jab is sloppy as hell. He relies on good reflexes but nothing else is great.

Best defensive I have seen (there are many different types):

Floyd Mayweather Jr (here is a guy who can use his defence in the pocket and actually use it to absorb energy and then counter like nobody I have ever seen before).

James Toney (much like Floyd as far as absorbing the energy and then re-directing it). Unfortunately, the guy couldn't go on the front foot in the same manner as Floyd.

Locche (need I say more, couldn't break an egg but he would just make fools of his opposition).

Roy Jones Jr (perhaps the most athletic man that has ever graced the planet, without the best technique, he got away with just about anything due to his superior athletacism and barely had to take a punch over a good decade period).

BHOP (I never liked this guy and never will, but even I have been humbled at just how this guy does it. The master of snooze but he always manages to lul his opponents to sleep. Probably the most cagey fighter I have ever seen).

Willie Pep (need I say more).

Pernell Whitaker (both defensive wizard and cagey).

Fukced if I can tell what Jack Johnson is doing in there from that old footage but I will take the old timers word his prowess.

Joe Gans + Benny Leonard.

Nice list. I would probably move Jonesin' jr. down to the bottom of that list though.
and the NEW
Yeh, sorry Beardo, the list is in no particular order! These guys are just very different but all great in their own ways.

blackbelt2003
Woah, I'm surprised (but then not really) at the blatant exclusion of pre-90's fighters on the ATG list. No wonder everyone thinks Mayweather is so great if their boxing knowledge only dates back to when Holyfield was heavyweight champion of the world.


Anyways:

ATG:

1/ Willie Pep, I think it's a given and should be consensus. The guy was incredible....he's on youtube for the younger kids.

2/ Ray Robinson @ welter. The footage is limited, but there is still a little on there. There's a fight vs Bobby Dykes and even his earlier middleweight days show off his defensive prowess. Sometimes he got involved in a fight and toughed it out, but when he wanted to be slick...MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN, he was slick.

3/ Nicolino Locche. Thank you Beardo. Bringing up his name has restored my faith in BT!!!! biggrin.gif An absolute defensive genius, would without a doubt be Argentina's best overall fighter if not for Monzon.

4/ Wilfredo Benitez. For him to have hung with what may have been the toughest competition of any era (from Kid Pambele to Leonard to Hearns to Duran...wow!) he had to have superlative defence...and he did. Check him out in his jr welter days against Cervantes. Incredible.

5/ Roy Jones Jr. I ummed and ahh'ed about whether to put in RJ or May, as I genuinely think both men had absolutely incredible defence. In the end, though, I plumped for Roy as he had a more consistent career than Floyd who has jumped up and down weights, 'retired' and gone inactive during his prime, whilst Roy was taking on all comers right up to his sudden downfall in his mid-30's. It's close, though.


Also considered: Arnold Cream (anyone tell me who he was without googling it...clue: he was heavyweight champion of the world), Joe Brown, Ali (obviously), Miguel Canto,



CURRENT:

1/ FLoyd. Undoubtedly.
2/ Hopkins
3/ Donaire
4/ John
5/ Wladimir




Black
riddick
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 26 2011, 04:17 AM) *
I'm not sure that Donaire belongs in the current top 5 list.

Smarty, i'm not sure that Judah deserves cool.gif especially after 23 july fight, in many fights he takes much shots, Cotto beat him very hard and landed many punches.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 26 2011, 09:17 AM) *
Another solid ATG list.

I'm not sure that Donaire belongs in the current top 5 list.




He hardly ever gets caught though, at least in the footage I've seen of him?




Black
gravytrain
good call on Robinson, Black. i think his defense is underrated since he got caught with some good shots in fights but when you throw that many punches round after round it'll happen eventually. in his old fights you can see him avoid a lot of shots and limit his opponent's offense just with footwork and the jab. i think he'd a really smooth defense too, it's just hard to notice it with some of the footage available. there's footage of him that goes back further than Dykes but it isn't that good of quality. in one fight he didn't even have his guard up but took away his opponents offense with footwork and head movement.
and the NEW
I'm still not sold on Robinson as one of the best defensive fighters ever.

No doubt he had terrific footwork, a rangy jab (though sloppy a lot of the times) and good head movement. But he liked to really drive up through his legs and hence planted his feet a lot infront of his opponents, which allowed him time to be hit.

I think Charley Burley was a better defensive fighter than Ray.

Don't get me wrong, Ray had the best offense the world has probably ever seen, but I couldn't call him one of the best defensive fighters I have seen.
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