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STEVENSKI
Interesting article on the front page.

OSDT

Ward makes a good point on the financial side. If he wants this testing for his fight with Froch who should pay for it? I don't know what they are getting paid for the fight but if Froch is getting $2M for his end should he have to pay 5% of his purse for non standard testing? Or should the person demanding it pay for the testing?

It is fine when you are making 10's of millions for a fight to pay for the testing but what about all the other fighters? If this style of testing is becoming more & more common who should pay for it?

This is not a attack on OSDT but a genuine query.

Thoughts?
Hops
How can it become common if the cost is prohibitive for upcomings? Even if we make it common for high profile fights, it won't become common for non-earning fights.
salvador
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 26 2011, 04:49 AM) *
Interesting article on the front page.

OSDT

Ward makes a good point on the financial side. If he wants this testing for his fight with Froch who should pay for it? I don't know what they are getting paid for the fight but if Froch is getting $2M for his end should he have to pay 5% of his purse for non standard testing? Or should the person demanding it pay for the testing?

It is fine when you are making 10's of millions for a fight to pay for the testing but what about all the other fighters? If this style of testing is becoming more & more common who should pay for it?

This is not a attack on OSDT but a genuine query.

Thoughts?


It is a huge number and it makes you wonder how much it would be if they could spread the costs around 1,000 fighters rather than just two. For example: all fighters in Nevada have to report to Vegas x times a year (randomly) to a set facility; one clinic, several clinicians, and one machine can get spread around 2 fighters a year or 1000 a year. I don't know if that makes sense or if that's what costs so much money (or if it's the somehow the actual tests), but it seems reasonable to assume that the costs would come way down per capita if more fighters were required to take the tests.

On a side note, with all the Showtime press I suppose Froch might be getting $2MM but that sure seems high given the tiny crowds.

caneman
All good points but honestly it can become a cluster fuck real fast and other than top fighters, if you think they cry about purses now? Just wait if they all have to pay for the testing! Add to that, without year around testing, it don't mean shit & might not even with year around testing!

Funny story a bit off topic...my friends friend is taking Oxycontin & they were charging her insurance $750 to do testing to make sure it was in her system & not selling it I guess...the crazy part is if she paid for the test herself it was like $75. They wonder why insurance is so much & imagine if the testers knew millions of $$$$ were behind it all!! Just saying!

In closing this is kinda about a fighter who thinks he is the ONLY ONE that can go up in weight & still be as good! Yea yea, I know Pacman started fighting @ 105 when he was 17 and only 4'11" but guess roughly how much FMJ weighed back then? The 2 fighters both went up in weight from about 105 to 150 from 17-30 some years old! And before anyone saying but Pacman brought all his power up with him, lmao, he never really had 1 punch power, he hits you 500-600 times in 12 rounds and the same thing that makes him impressive is the same thing that COULD cost him a fight cause he is about offense not not defense!
JONdaCON817
Personally i think that style of testing should be ATLEAST done for Championship fights.. and certain elite level fighters.. maybe Ranked 10 or higher.. that way even if someone does cheat in the beginning stages of there career then theyll deff get exposed if they fight someone at a higher level where testin will be more stringent... IDK if thatll work thats juss my thought to possibly alleviate some of the cost...
JONdaCON817
Im also impressed that Ward has chosen to step up and say he wants to do testing too... shows that Mayweather may not be completely crazy...
thehype
Personally, I think it should be something that's done for big fights, where the stakes are high and the temptation to cheat are much greater. Not just "mega-fights" like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, but other big fights like Ward vs. Froch or even Khan vs. Judah, where title unifications are on the line, etc. I don't think this is something that should be implemented for a smaller, less important fight like Rios vs. Antillon. If there's a million dollar payday at stake for someone, then I think it's definitely something worth implementing.

Something else to keep in mind....

Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval signs bill paying for drug tests for boxers and MMA fighters

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110616/NEWS11...rs-MMA-fighters

QUOTE
More money will be available to test boxers and mixed martial arts fighters in Nevada for steroids.

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval on Wednesday signed a law allowing money from an existing ticket fee to pay for random drug screenings at any time including training periods.

Current law attaches a fee to tickets for live professional fights. The Nevada Athletic Commission gets $1 per person for large events and 50 cents for smaller fights that gross less than $500,000.

The money goes to grants to support organizations promoting amateur fights in Nevada.

The new law allows the athletic commission to divert some of the money to test amateur or professional fighters for performance-enhancing drugs that create an unfair advantage.

It goes into effect July 1.
caneman
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 26 2011, 12:57 PM) *
Personally, I think it should be something that's done for big fights, where the stakes are high and the temptation to cheat are much greater. Not just "mega-fights" like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, but other big fights like Ward vs. Froch or even Khan vs. Judah, where title unifications are on the line, etc. I don't think this is something that should be implemented for a smaller, less important fight like Rios vs. Antillon. If there's a million dollar payday at stake for someone, then I think it's definitely something worth implementing.

Something else to keep in mind....

Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval signs bill paying for drug tests for boxers and MMA fighters

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110616/NEWS11...rs-MMA-fighters



Where's that like button? Still needs to be around though!
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 26 2011, 12:57 PM) *
Personally, I think it should be something that's done for big fights, where the stakes are high and the temptation to cheat are much greater. Not just "mega-fights" like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, but other big fights like Ward vs. Froch or even Khan vs. Judah, where title unifications are on the line, etc. I don't think this is something that should be implemented for a smaller, less important fight like Rios vs. Antillon. If there's a million dollar payday at stake for someone, then I think it's definitely something worth implementing.

Something else to keep in mind....

Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval signs bill paying for drug tests for boxers and MMA fighters

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110616/NEWS11...rs-MMA-fighters


Exactly!!... thats what im sayin.. and i like that theyre atleast showing some kind of effort to clean up the sport.. i think physical, contact sports like Boxing, MMA, Football, Rugby etc should be top priority in tryin to get cleaned up...
gravytrain
i think anyone that requests it should pay for it.
STEVENSKI
Good to see we all pretty much agree. I think OSDT is a good idea but if a fighter is requesting it then they should pay for the full cost of both their & their opponents testing. Unless it is standardised & mandated.

Ben makes a good point & maybe there should be a pool of say 2% of all fighters purses taken to finance the improved testing for all contender level & higher fights.

Surely if Mayweather is serious about cleaning up the sport then he would happily give 2% of his purses to help clean up the sport somewhat.

One thing for sure is that fighters blood samples should be kept on record for future testing as what is not currently detectable may well be detectable in 10 years time.
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 26 2011, 06:58 PM) *
Good to see we all pretty much agree. I think OSDT is a good idea but if a fighter is requesting it then they should pay for the full cost of both their & their opponents testing. Unless it is standardised & mandated.

Ben makes a good point & maybe there should be a pool of say 2% of all fighters purses taken to finance the improved testing for all contender level & higher fights.

Surely if Mayweather is serious about cleaning up the sport then he would happily give 2% of his purses to help clean up the sport somewhat.

One thing for sure is that fighters blood samples should be kept on record for future testing as what is not currently detectable may well be detectable in 10 years time.


Huh? I don't think I said anything related to taking money out of a fighter's purse. LOL. No clue how you got that from anything I said.

dntknw.gif

All I said was that the Governor of Nevada passed a law that will set aside a portion of ticket sales for testing, which is a far better solution. I don't think fighters should have to pay at all. I think networks and promoters, who actually end up making far more money off the gate, PPV sales, etc., should have to set aside their own money for the future of the sport...not the fighters. If you're a promoter, like Dan Goossen, and your fighter requests it, then I think it should be that promoter that pays for it, not the actual fighter. Now, maybe that means the promoter takes a little bigger cut from his fighters purse...then that's something they can work out...but in the long run, I don't think fighters themselves should be responsible for paying for future change in the sport...I think it should be those who profit the most.
iKeNjiro
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 27 2011, 08:20 AM) *
Huh? I don't think I said anything related to taking money out of a fighter's purse. LOL. No clue how you got that from anything I said.

dntknw.gif

All I said was that the Governor of Nevada passed a law that will set aside a portion of ticket sales for testing, which is a far better solution. I don't think fighters should have to pay at all. I think networks and promoters, who actually end up making far more money off the gate, PPV sales, etc., should have to set aside their own money for the future of the sport...not the fighters. If you're a promoter, like Dan Goossen, and your fighter requests it, then I think it should be that promoter that pays for it, not the actual fighter. Now, maybe that means the promoter takes a little bigger cut from his fighters purse...then that's something they can work out...but in the long run, I don't think fighters themselves should be responsible for paying for future change in the sport...I think it should be those who profit the most.


Agreed
10characters

Edit: Ben could you delete this post
Or how do you delete double post cause i have three an my phone is gay
thanks
iKeNjiro
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 27 2011, 08:20 AM) *
Huh? I don't think I said anything related to taking money out of a fighter's purse. LOL. No clue how you got that from anything I said.

dntknw.gif

All I said was that the Governor of Nevada passed a law that will set aside a portion of ticket sales for testing, which is a far better solution. I don't think fighters should have to pay at all. I think networks and promoters, who actually end up making far more money off the gate, PPV sales, etc., should have to set aside their own money for the future of the sport...not the fighters. If you're a promoter, like Dan Goossen, and your fighter requests it, then I think it should be that promoter that pays for it, not the actual fighter. Now, maybe that means the promoter takes a little bigger cut from his fighters purse...then that's something they can work out...but in the long run, I don't think fighters themselves should be responsible for paying for future change in the sport...I think it should be those who profit the most.


Agreed
10characters
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 27 2011, 09:20 AM) *
Huh? I don't think I said anything related to taking money out of a fighter's purse. LOL. No clue how you got that from anything I said.


No I was meaning that it is something that could be implemented for top 10 conterder type fights & above as you said hence my comment that it is a good point. Not about it being taken out of fighters purses that is my opinion that I added on as a way to fund this testing.


QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 27 2011, 09:20 AM) *
All I said was that the Governor of Nevada passed a law that will set aside a portion of ticket sales for testing, which is a far better solution. I don't think fighters should have to pay at all. I think networks and promoters, who actually end up making far more money off the gate, PPV sales, etc., should have to set aside their own money for the future of the sport...not the fighters. If you're a promoter, like Dan Goossen, and your fighter requests it, then I think it should be that promoter that pays for it, not the actual fighter. Now, maybe that means the promoter takes a little bigger cut from his fighters purse...then that's something they can work out...but in the long run, I don't think fighters themselves should be responsible for paying for future change in the sport...I think it should be those who profit the most.


Agreed but either way it is the fans who actually end up paying with incresed ticket prices & PPV costs. The promoter will be the last person to pay for it as we all know.
gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 26 2011, 07:20 PM) *
Huh? I don't think I said anything related to taking money out of a fighter's purse. LOL. No clue how you got that from anything I said.

dntknw.gif

All I said was that the Governor of Nevada passed a law that will set aside a portion of ticket sales for testing, which is a far better solution . I don't think fighters should have to pay at all. I think networks and promoters, who actually end up making far more money off the gate, PPV sales, etc., should have to set aside their own money for the future of the sport...not the fighters. If you're a promoter, like Dan Goossen, and your fighter requests it, then I think it should be that promoter that pays for it, not the actual fighter. Now, maybe that means the promoter takes a little bigger cut from his fighters purse...then that's something they can work out...but in the long run, I don't think fighters themselves should be responsible for paying for future change in the sport...I think it should be those who profit the most.


why should amateur boxing lose out on money for testing in the pros? amateur boxing isn't generating the revenue pro boxing generates. all the fighters asking for the testing like Mayweather, Pascal, Judah and Ward are making some decent money so if anything they, their promoters and the networks should figure something out.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 26 2011, 01:57 PM) *
Personally, I think it should be something that's done for big fights, where the stakes are high and the temptation to cheat are much greater. Not just "mega-fights" like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao, but other big fights like Ward vs. Froch or even Khan vs. Judah, where title unifications are on the line, etc. I don't think this is something that should be implemented for a smaller, less important fight like Rios vs. Antillon. If there's a million dollar payday at stake for someone, then I think it's definitely something worth implementing.

Something else to keep in mind....

Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval signs bill paying for drug tests for boxers and MMA fighters

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110616/NEWS11...rs-MMA-fighters



I don't agree with this entirely.. Granted there may be more of a temptation to cheat with more on the line, however, this doesn't prevent one from using anything to beat his opponent to move through his career... Furthermore, a fight is just as dangerous in a small fight as in a big championship PPV event..


QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jun 26 2011, 05:07 PM) *
i think anyone that requests it should pay for it.


This was my initial reaction.

But given the circumstances, I would only be fair to somehow get this passed with the commision and fee EVERY professional fighter... jus like paying yours dues and health care on your paystub...

Walstan86
As someone already said, if it's not year-round testing (to ensure against juicing between fights), it's a joke.
gravytrain
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Jun 26 2011, 08:44 PM) *
I don't agree with this entirely.. Granted there may be more of a temptation to cheat with more on the line, however, this doesn't prevent one from using anything to beat his opponent to move through his career... Furthermore, a fight is just as dangerous in a small fight as in a big championship PPV event..




This was my initial reaction.

But given the circumstances, I would only be fair to somehow get this passed with the commision and fee EVERY professional fighter... jus like paying yours dues and health care on your paystub...


how is that cleaning up the sport? NSAC isn't the only commission. it defeats its purpose to only be going on in one state. until the fighters calling for it get more serious about it and actually make a case they can go ahead and just pick up the tab.
STEVENSKI
Teddy Atlas would have this fixed if they only set up a national boxing commission............
gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 26 2011, 09:28 PM) *
Teddy Atlas would have this fixed if they only set up a national boxing commission............


i don't know if i would like a national commission. what they really need to do is get together and make one set of rules. i did hear that Atlas got an email from a source he trusts about a national commission. it got deleted though, of course.
caneman
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 26 2011, 08:28 PM) *
Teddy Atlas would have this fixed if they only set up a national boxing commission............



Teddy talks all that shit about a commission yet asked if he wants to run it he says hell no! And if it's government run I don't think things would get better, it would get even worse and we don't need a bigger more corrupt government nor do we need boxing to be corrupt so not sure how it can be fixed!
STEVENSKI
No national commission can sort out a global sport & that is the problem.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jun 26 2011, 09:17 PM) *
how is that cleaning up the sport? NSAC isn't the only commission. it defeats its purpose to only be going on in one state. until the fighters calling for it get more serious about it and actually make a case they can go ahead and just pick up the tab.



QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 26 2011, 11:40 PM) *
No national commission can sort out a global sport & that is the problem.



Okay so let's call it an "INTERnational" boxing commision

Paint it whatever color we want, point is there should absolutely be a an oranization that supports, and enforces an "up to date" testing mandate. I am no sure of all the nics and cranies and the thee's and thou's of who does what, but we all can agree on one thing....THE CURRENT TESTING METHODS ARENT UP TO PAR IN COMPARISON TO OSDT...

To me it means one of two things..
1.) They are incompetent
2.) They are currupt

Why should ANY sport, especially any COMBAT sport, not be subject to thorough testing?

It should be mandatory and paid by ALL professional boxers,.. both in local and abroad
Walstan86
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Jun 26 2011, 10:59 PM) *
Why should ANY sport, especially any COMBAT sport, not be subject to thorough testing?

You evidently haven't been following the debate here. "Thorough testing"? Nobody here who advocates OSDT believes that OSDT is "thorough" testing. The value of OSDT is as a deterrent, they say.

It's "the threat" of being tested up to the day of the fight that would keep the sport clean. Guys would be too afraid of getting caught because they would never know when the test was coming. That's the argument.

You only have to realize that Shane Mosley's last blood test was a full 18 days before his fight with Mayweather to kill any delusions of "thoroughness".
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (Walstan86 @ Jun 27 2011, 12:09 AM) *
You evidently haven't been following the debate here. "Thorough testing"? Nobody here who advocates OSDT believes that OSDT is "thorough" testing. The value of OSDT is as a deterrent, they say.

It's "the threat" of being tested up to the day of the fight that would keep the sport clean. Guys would be too afraid of getting caught because they would never know when the test was coming. That's the argument.

You only have to realize that Shane Mosley's last blood test was a full 18 days before his fight with Mayweather to kill any delusions of "thoroughness".


I was referring to what the current tests can detect...

Not the actual testing times and days leading to the fight...

Naturally a fighter wouldnt do any PEDS if he didn't know when he was going to be tested.

Perhaps you wearnt reading my post 'thoroughly'....
Hops
I have a question: What if Pacquiao decided to train in the Philippines just like when he trained for Cotto? Would people trust the people who administered the blood testing if it was done in other countries? Or should NSAC have accredited testing centers in the Philippines? How about in Thailand and Malaysia where people are so "fanatic" of their boxers to the point that home town decisions are not just common but mandatory.

Now, the most important question: DO PEOPLE RUNNING NSAC HAVE NOT THOUGHT OF WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW? ARE THEY IDIOTS? ARE THEY STUBBORN? Cause I think they are doing some studies but they couldn't come up with something at this point in time.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (Hops @ Jun 27 2011, 06:28 AM) *
Now, the most important question: DO PEOPLE RUNNING NSAC HAVE NOT THOUGHT OF WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW? ARE THEY IDIOTS? ARE THEY STUBBORN? Cause I think they are doing some studies but they couldn't come up with something at this point in time.


Case and point....
ks1
QUOTE (Walstan86 @ Jun 27 2011, 12:09 AM) *
You evidently haven't been following the debate here. "Thorough testing"? Nobody here who advocates OSDT believes that OSDT is "thorough" testing. The value of OSDT is as a deterrent, they say.

It's "the threat" of being tested up to the day of the fight that would keep the sport clean. Guys would be too afraid of getting caught because they would never know when the test was coming. That's the argument.

You only have to realize that Shane Mosley's last blood test was a full 18 days before his fight with Mayweather to kill any delusions of "thoroughness".


That's just lame Pactard spin you keep repeating though it's not half as clever as you think it is. I'm amused how you're trying to frame what "nobody here" is supposedly advocating but, that's not as amusing as trying to spin that since the last random test in the Mosely fight was done 18 days before the fight that means the testing wasn't thorough. As if just actual testing is the only thing that makes an overall testing program thorough. You're pretending that deterrent value is not a key part of the overall thoroughness of a testing program which is pretty stupid.
gravytrain
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Jun 26 2011, 11:59 PM) *
Okay so let's call it an "INTERnational" boxing commision

Paint it whatever color we want, point is there should absolutely be a an oranization that supports, and enforces an "up to date" testing mandate. I am no sure of all the nics and cranies and the thee's and thou's of who does what, but we all can agree on one thing....THE CURRENT TESTING METHODS ARENT UP TO PAR IN COMPARISON TO OSDT...

To me it means one of two things..
1.) They are incompetent
2.) They are currupt

Why should ANY sport, especially any COMBAT sport, not be subject to thorough testing?

It should be mandatory and paid by ALL professional boxers,.. both in local and abroad


what pro sport has testing that rivals Olympic testing? here's a hint: none. do you know why? it's too expensive. Ward said it's 50-100,000 dollars to get testing for around 8 weeks. how could any commission afford to test all active fighters when it's 50-100k? go on boxrec and look how many active fighters they've listed, there are 1,089 HW fighters alone.
Hops
Yeah! And even OSDT isn't that thorough. The Olympic committee is cutting down on costs. That's why they only catch 0.001% of those juicing. Not to mention that they can't touch those who train outside the US, e.g. China, Russia.
caneman
In is, it IS NOT, OSDT if it is NOT YEAR AROUND!!!!! That is the bottom line IMO!
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jun 27 2011, 06:18 PM) *
what pro sport has testing that rivals Olympic testing? here's a hint: none. do you know why? it's too expensive. Ward said it's 50-100,000 dollars to get testing for around 8 weeks. how could any commission afford to test all active fighters when it's 50-100k? go on boxrec and look how many active fighters they've listed, there are 1,089 HW fighters alone.


All the more reason to fee every pro fighter a small amount...

Idk,.. im sure there is a logical way to do this, atleast to where no one person or two have to eat the entire cost?
gravytrain
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Jun 27 2011, 08:54 PM) *
All the more reason to fee every pro fighter a small amount...

Idk,.. im sure there is a logical way to do this, atleast to where no one person or two have to eat the entire cost?


do you know how much it would cost just to test the 1,089 HWs if all of them fight 1 time a year? about 54.5 million. that's if the testing costs 50k when Ward said it's 50-100k. an international commission paying for that kind of testing is out of the question. even if it's just nationally there are still lots of fighters nobody has ever heard of fighting small venues that are going to eat up those funds with a quickness. some club fighter could fight 8 times in one year and cost 400k in testing.

it's one thing to improve testing and improving testing in boxing wouldn't be very hard or expensive. trying to say that testing that costs 50-100k is the only available option isn't realistic though. and since one of the highest paid athletes in the world is calling for it and wont fight without it he can go right on ahead and pay for it.
Walstan86
QUOTE (ks1 @ Jun 27 2011, 02:43 PM) *
That's just lame Pactard spin you keep repeating though it's not half as clever as you think it is. I'm amused how you're trying to frame what "nobody here" is supposedly advocating but, that's not as amusing as trying to spin that since the last random test in the Mosely fight was done 18 days before the fight that means the testing wasn't thorough. As if just actual testing is the only thing that makes an overall testing program thorough. You're pretending that deterrent value is not a key part of the overall thoroughness of a testing program which is pretty stupid.

I got yer pactard right here asshole. idiot...
ks1
QUOTE (Walstan86 @ Jun 27 2011, 09:30 PM) *
I got yer pactard right here asshole. idiot...


I see you're butthurt again. Gawd, you're a whiny dude when your lame points get exposed. LOL
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