You're wanting to see those old sigs again aren't you? Don't worry SENTRAL and I agreed to a minimum posts requirement as part of the bet.

I think maybe Danny 'da fucken man' Williamz should consider coming out of retirement to reignite the HW division.

Impressive win for Klitschko....I thought Haye won 3 rounds at best...Klitschko really knows how to fight tall and use distance. He has good defense too. Haye landed a few good right hands but not much at all.

We got another fucking sparring session. What a POS performance by Haye! He should go back to England and stay there!!! I hope he is crucified for this for the rest of his life. POS didn't even throw any punches! 10-2 Wlad

Oh well, at least Admack comes to fight against Vitali.

Jack

+5 Haye is a POS. When this little chicken shit throw one shot and get out of the way didn't work after the 3rd round, he was perfectly content to spar. Fuck him!

Jack

it can't even be called a sparring session, sparring partners put more work in than that.

Yeah but in his defence he had a lot of 'flashy flash.' Haha.

if Haye said something "i don't know what fight they were watching, i clearly beat him for 12 rounds" i would give him a break lol.

Haye does have some tools and he did better than i thought he would though. he needs better offense though, if he could box better i think he would have beat Wlad even in Germany.

LOL!!!

Jack

He showed good stamina if he is looking to dance all night without assistance. As a boxer he showed NOTHING. He moved well but threw fuck all knowing that if he did he would be eating leather in return.

I know it is not right to call a professional fighter a coward but damm he sure is a bitch.



Westside would take Haye to the woodshed & show him the buckle end of his belt.

Westside

The truth of the matter is this:

They both sucked! I mean here was a chance for either of them to make something happen in the biggest anticipated fight in years and they took no risks, no chances. This is why the Klitschkos are seen as boring because nobody since the days of Brewster I and Sanders for Wlad and Lewis for Vitali has come forward and showed aggression. I mean not to do that is so fucking stupid IMO. I mean maybe the division is so shit that they don't know how to be aggressive. But shit, people pay good money and we get W. 12. W.12 W.12, KO 11 against a nobody.

Why these contenders, who are more like pretenders just don't fucking charge into them at the opening bell? Are they being bribed to not throw punches or just to spar? We have seen this over, and over, and over again with the Klitschkos and Haye shoots his mouth off but doesn't do shit. These kinds of non-action fights turn people off from boxing. What's sad is that it doesn't have to be this way!

Please, Please, let's see a Klitschko in a war type fight again, like ten years ago! And let's see an opponent who comes to fight and tries to take their heads off. Not because I hate the Klits, I just hate their recent style of fighting. At $12.95 a month for HBO, these boring safety-first wins are just getting too predictable.

Jack

Jack they get 50,000 fans to a fight & European fans appreciate sound technical boxing skills far more than the beer swilling American public who want bar room brawls & slugfests like they get fed in the UFC.

Face the facts Jack these guys sell out every fight they have. HBO means jack shit & HBO should think themselves lucky to get any access to their fights after the disrespectful way they have treated both brothers. Fact is that they will retire with their brains intact. Both brothers have a 90% KO % they just chose to do it smartly & not let themselves get drawn into career shortening wars.

Sure it is predictable the way they fight but that is not their fault. They are using their best tools to full advantage & if that involves keeping a man at the end of your jab before clubbing him repeatedly with the right then so be it. They are not loudmouthed braggarts they are educated intelligent men who use their brain to break down & beat their oppoenent.

Matter of fact I think they may well have ruined more fighters than any heavyweights in history they way they brutalaise their opponnet.

yea, Wlad didn't win like someone that really deserves a spot in history. i would have rather it been Vitali in the ring, he doesn't go for the KO but he will trade. even though Wlad won this convincingly it really showed what someone with some movement can do to him.

i think the talent just isn't in the HW division anymore. over the years America has been a big contributor to the division and guys big enough to make it in the division have too many option in sports, getting a guy in the ring at a young age and them turning out to be 6'6" 250 pounds takes a lot of luck too. i know if there was someone that size in high school the basketball coach and football coach would talk to them everyday trying to get them on the team. a boxing trainer isn't even in the equation.

I really don't get all of the ripping on Haye talk. I mean....REALLY....what did you expect?

The whole build up to this fight I was always quick to offer what I HOPED would take place...but never said what I thought for sure would take place, because due to Wlad's size you KNOW getting in is never an easy task.

Maybe Haye's mouth got into the heads of most people that were going to watch the fight moreso than it did Wlad's head....but it never did make me for one second forget what a huge task the man had in front of him.

When you compare today's performance against just about ALL of the past 13 guys Wlad has fought....at the very least he landed some big shots, marked Wlad up and did not even come close to getting KOd himself....all in all...from a guy so much smaller...I do not at all see it as a terrible performance...

And for those that suggest a Super HW division....I don't think that's a realistic suggestion. Wlad and Vitali are very rare.

If you were to make this division your only fighter would be Wlad, Vitali, Valuev, Fields, McBride, Grant and a handful of others.....none of which are any better than the bros.

It's a waste.


NO....all you can do is just hope for the day that a guy comes along with ALL of the aspects needed to beat the two-headed champion.

David Haye said his little toe was broken WTF? Dude you don't need that bitch to push off. The big toe is the captain you sucka! Lame!

A Super HW division would be perfect...weight divisions go by weight not height genius..They should make heavyweight 200-225lbs that way we would see much better fights and also get talent from cruiser weights moving up. How did we expect Haye to be more aggressive when he's only 212 lbs fighting a guy thats 6'7 thats jabbing and leaning back and jumping back every time you make any move towards them. Haye just doesn't have the physical attributes to match up with the klits

i don't think it really matters what anyone expected. in the early rounds i could see a fighter that had a legit chance to beat Wlad but he just let the opportunity pass him by due to his lack of activity.



Haye had the physical talent to beat him, he just didn't have the boxing skills. this fight kind of reminds me of Louis vs Carnera, if Louis just tried to throw lead rights and lead left hooks while staying on the outside he would have lost too.

Haye didn't even need to be agressive, he needed to box him. if he worked the jab and set punches up with it he would have won this fight. Wlad showed me nothing special, Haye just didn't do anything.

Wlad did not even get out of first gear let alone 2nd. If needed he could have stepped it up significantly. He did what he had to do to win with no danger on his part whatsoever.

Boring & uninspiring? You bet but that is why he wins time & time again.

What a disgrace to boxing.

You need to go ahead and apply that BS sarcastic "genius" shit to your own post.

Of course it goes by weight....but guys that are 6'5+ would still be the bulk of a SHW division. Their height allows them to carry more weight, so don't act like height does not make up a huge part of the issue....not simply weight.

By your standerds a fat out of shape James Toney would be in the "Super Heavyweight Division"

And if you are hell bent on only taking weight into account....not much would change...Your division would still be made up of most of the folks that make it up today.

SHW Divison talk is a waste of time.

I've got to say, I never saw Haye failing to close the range for the entire fight beforehand.  I thought he would use his speed, which wasn't evident in all honesty and force Wladimir into making mistakes.  He never managed to get close enough and Wladimir, despite being disliked by many fans, once again fought the perfect fight.

The big right in the 12th from Haye was enough to put a lot of men over but Wladimir took it very well and I wouldn't have guessed at that before the fight.

Haye looked strong at the end and he really shouldn't have had anything left at all if he'd given it his best.  I hate the toe excuse and the English fans surely won't let him off lightly for his cocky nature and then relatively timid performance.

Disappointed, do not want to see a rematch or a fight between Haye and Vitali.  It was, for all sense and purposes, a let down.

I must stop backing Davids. They do me no favors.

I'm a cunt cos I thought Haye would land some leather and give it a right ol' go but I shoulda just figured a fella with braids on his bonce wouldn't be man enough to throw caution to the wind. He's being ridiculed by the English media for the little toe excuse. Has anyone ever heard anything quite like it? Watching the fight I was off my trolley and I thought it was a decent clash but obviously I was in my own bloody world cos having since rewatched it I see it was a load of bollocks basically.

Ok, obviously I'm dissapointed that Haye, not only lost, but didn't fight no where near as aggressive he promised. Anyhow, here are a few quick points;


1. What a show! I don't mean the actual fights, but the laser lights, special effects, Tyson talking at the beginning, the news articles - great show. Really got everyone pumped up....nice work, Germany!


2. Haye showed us some lovely defence.....but no counters or intelligent attacking. Well, you could see what he was trying to achieve (the right hand over the top), but throwing it that wild and that often?! To stand on the ropes with your hands down by your side is a death defying act against a Klit.


3. Haye's jab was catching Wladimir. The sheer speed of David's jab meant he beat Wlad to the jab on more than a few occasions. how come he didn't use it more often?


4. Fighting the Klit's is harder than it seems....Wlad never changes his style and his opponents always look the same. Can't get past the jab, can't get in close and when they taste the leather, they are more reluctant to attack. With all the best laid plans and talk of 'xxx should just do this, or xxx should just do that, I think once you're in the ring with Wlad, it's a totally different game. They're that good at what they do.


5. What did we really expect from Haye? I think we all got caught up in the hype and were HOPING Haye would deliver. He is fast and does have some skill, but against a brilliant, seasoned pro like Wladimir?


6. I think Haye will get some stick here in the UK. Over here we love to bash up our losers, so no doubt there will be an onslaught of 'Haye is crap', 'Haye is a clown' and other such talk.

He will deserve everything he gets & then some. What is most galling is that Cockney men are masculine/macho (or like to think they are til they meet a real hard geordie or taff anyways) & Haye looked fresh as a daisy at the end. This shows he most certainly did not give his all & was there to collect his payday.

He is a disgrace to boxing & a disgrace to England. What a cunt & hopefully some thug shanks him as he is walking the streets for bringing shame to England. At least your other top fighters when they have lost on th einternational stage gave 100%. Haye gave 10% at best.

When someone talks the way Haye did for 3 years I expect him to go for broke in the last few rounds and risk going out on his shield rather than lose a wide decision on his feet. I especially expect it when his mouth convinced 20,000 Brits to fly to Hamburg to see the fight.

And the thing is, the fight went exactly how I expected it to, with Klit controlling the fight and Haye deciding to finish on his feet - which is fine because we now know for sure what a complete FRAUD Haye is.

There's no shame in getting ko'd. But there is huge shame in lying to the public and then choosing to go down like a banker rather than a warrior.

Oh Shit! Craig David was that R&B dude. That's funny. Heavyweights are screwing the pooch these days. If that was the most that we can get out of the division, then I think we should get rid of the heavyweight division altogether. I heard David Haye say that Wlad's fights were a cure for insomnia. Well I wonder how he feels about adding to that statement personally. When he watches the tape, I'm sure he'll be excited over some of those clean right hands he landed on Wlad.

Actually Wlad hasn't had a decision win since Sultan Ibragimov in February of 2008. He's won all the others by stoppages.

And Vitali has had 8 stoppages and two decision wins since his loss to Lennox Lewis.

So not sure what you meant by that.

I think its the slow and methodical manner by which he attains his stoppage victories which gripes with the fans. He doesn't show the explosiveness to counter for being kill of the hill as a non American so he'll never be taken to heart.

for me it's kind of like when Naazim Richardson said "we're giving the blueprint to beat him" when Mosley fought Pac. if Haye really boxed him and didn't just look for a lead right hand i truly believe he would have Wlad's belts. his defense and power made Wlad look unsure of himself and if Haye was setting up shots with the jab i think he would have won close rounds. unfortunately for Haye that's just his approach to fights so i don't think he could change himself up that much just with 1 camp.



in one thread i talked about that, they really can put on a show. they put on a classy show over there and other promoters should take notes.



i think it's too hard to sell someone like him. verbally he can't sell a fight at all and in the ring it's not very appealing to many audiences. some people on here say he's smart for not straying from his style because he's protecting his health but i can't agree with that, he's just content to win. he's what he's and he's someone that learned to fight in a sports school and has a very eastern European style of looking to win with no flashy flash and a win is a win for him.

I had it 114 -112. 7 rounds to 5, in favor of Wlad. I think David Haye landed the bigger shots throughout the fight. Wlad landed his jab, which carried him through most close rounds. I didnt see it as the colossal blowout that the judges scored it as. It was a good competitive fight. Wlad was actually challenged. I think Haye hurt him on a few occassions and he recovered well. Haye's problem appeared to be that he could not reach Wlad with many of his shots. It may have been due to his toe and being able to plant and extend. It was swollen and looked ugly. If I was Haye, I wouldnt have run that toe BS after the fight. He fought, so it was fair. No excuses. He just didnt do enough in most rounds. When he did, it won him the round.

Watched again this morning (I don't know how I made it through it again) and gave Haye 4 rounds. I was being extremely nice!

I don't know about the german broadcast but HBO was really dick riding Klit! He didn't do shit either... There were times where he had Haye backed against the corner and he just sat there. Klit was just as scared as Haye was.... He just hid behind his size advantage rather his legs! Fuck this fight and Fuck both fighters... At least guys like Arreola would have gone all out!

i don't think it's so much that they were dick riding him, Haye just hyped it up like he's coming to end Wlad's reign over the division then didn't do anything. he didn't look like someone trying to take a title while fighting someone in their backyard.

I just watched again too and gave Haye rounds 3, 4 and 12...I would love to give him more but I didn't think he earned them and clit wasn't much better! Again what stinks more shit or 3 day old puke???

I don't know,

Giving Haye five rounds seems much too excessive to me. At best he won three, I gave him two. I think all the criticisms of the Klitschkos and the putrid stench of last night can be summarized this way:

I want an exciting fight of them. What happened to the Vitali against Lewis? Or the Wlad against Sam Peter the first time? They have become much too safety prone. If that is the sure way to win, so be it, but I want to see them in a war again. The non-fight last night case confirms the reasons why HBO is so cynical of them. No one is going to want to see David Haye darken anyone;s doorstep ever again after that POS performance,

It's up to Adamek to charge against Vitali to produce an exciting fight. This "jab and move to win" is OK, but last night Wlad should have gotten Haye out of there when he realized he was in there just for a paycheck and he didn't do it! Every Klitschko fight is the same methodical win. Two robots working behind a jab perfectly content to win a decision. Oh and a KO? Well if it comes, it comes, but I'm not gonna take a chance in fighting a war if I don't have to. The Klits don't go for the gold to be first in the race anymore for excitement. They are perfectly content to just finish and take a wide decision against opponents who can't (or won't) fight back.

History doesn't remember most champions just for winning. The champions have to win in an exciting special way and last night was such a fucking disgusting POS, that I say it is even going to unfairly hurt Vitali against Adamek. The general public doesn't even know the difference between the two, (that's how far heavyweight boxing has fallen) that they are going to think. "Ugghhhh. Another Klitschko on HBO." They haven't been in an exciting fight for years!

Will Adamek finally force a Klitschko into a firefight?

Jack

+5! Could not have said it better!

Jack

+5

Jack

Haye became a cunt last night with all that talk and no effort. He reminds me of Jorge Gonzalez before he fought Bowe. Remember the former Cuban star who decided not to hurt anyone as a pro? He talked so much smack to Bowe, said he was gonna kill him, everyone associated with him, promised to break him in half. He even threw glasses at Bowe during the press conference for their fight.

Bowe-Gonzalez comes at Gonzalez does shit in the ring! Absolutely nothing! A putrid farce and a disgrace of a fight. David Haye was Jorge Gonzalez non-fighting Bowe last night and Wlad was just content to win instead of getting him out of there. PUTRID!


Jack

i think you would really have to discount what Wlad was doing to give many rounds up to Haye. Wlad controlled the fight and was throwing more, Haye handing and occasional right hand isn't going to sway me when Wlad is dominating all but 5 exchanges in the round while not being staggered or dropped. i didn't score the fight but think it could have went either way early on, once you get to round 5 and later it's all Wlad.

I think a lot of people are just pissed because Haye talked so big and did so little. So its reflected in the way they scored the fight. I gave Haye 1, 3, 4, 7 and 12.

What the FUCK, Factor?....you called bullshit on me over a consensus "close fight" last weekend (iMo anywhere from 96-93 Matt to 95-94 Alexander)...while this was a consensus landslide for Wlad...

Wlad controlled that bitch all night....yes...Haye ducked and dodged like a phenom, and every once in a while, he would lunge and throw a looper...he gave Klit a little bloody mouse, and that's about it...

but there is no way in British HEAVEN you can give Haye 5 rounds.

Calling bullshit on ME?...lol




You're a good man, MARV...that's more like it...I would have given 3 to Haye if I was being overly generous....

I see Warlord adopted my Sig giving style on ya...lol...ain't no thing.

in British heaven Haye was the favorite going into the fight. that's no bullshit. going off of that i'm thinking they probably have it as a draw.

i think it's time to get to the real question; after this fight is a Toney fight really that bad? given a platform and a translator he can get an interest in the fight and it can't be any worse than Haye.

Lol... These are the sig bets that hurt though. When your at the complete mercy of another poster... Ughhh. I guess I just have to learn the hard way. I really thought Haye had more fight in him.

Nah in some ways I might try to give Haye more rounds and I gave him 3 rounds, I think giving him 4 rounds is really pushing even if that bitch klit didn't do much of anything!

Oh yeah....and no one knows that better than me....but I think I'd be hard pressed to scour all British Boxing forums and find 5 guys who gave him 5 rounds or more...

and if I did...well....you know...lol




The sad thing is...if Haye would have taken it to him in the first 4 rounds, he could have gotten him...Wlad was definitely off.

I'm sure he had enough in that toe to go all out for a few rounds...it was his only hope.

Cmon Jack. You know better. HBO don't like them because they ruin anyone HBO has sent their way to try & dethrone them. HBO has not invested one red cent into their promotion or careers & want to take what Saurland has spent years building through hard work. I want to see them in wars too but why go to war when you can drop neutron boms on them from a distance with no risk to your own safety?

HBO is cynical about them yet their biggest PPV attraction fights far more safety first & does not get many stoppages at all.

HBO don't like the Klit bros because they are European not American. Sorry but if you has two American brothers who has KO%'s in the 90's HBO would be all over them.

The funny thing is that they sell out soccer stadiums every time they fight so whatever HBO could offer them is chump change in comparison. They sell twice as many tickets to their fights as Americas biggest PPV attraction. HBO should be grateful they were even given access to this fight really.

I must be one of teh few who think Wlad did not even get out of 1st gear. At no stage was he in trouble in the fight. He controlled the action from the centre of the ring. Bar the ridiculous point deduction I can think of only one or two rounds you could potentially give Haye & even those are debatable.

If need be Wlad has plenty more gears to rev out.

A discussion of Haye's fucked up toes. Here's a picture and comment:

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.ph...0&ysize=640

That shit does look bad. Now that doesn't really change things. What David SHOULD have done is said, "Yea, I busted my toe in training, but I am still going to go in there and give do what I can to give the fans a great fight. I have waited to long for this and so have they."

But Haye doesn't do that. He's a con and a bitch. He OBVIOUSLY knew his toes got fucked, but he still goes on and on about going to war, breaking every bone in Wlad's body, obviously KNOWING full well because if the injury that he was going to just jab and not hit in return.

He had no intension of backing up his words with a war of any kind. And the user who posted that pic thought that David should have pulled out of the fight. The other community members believe that he would have been crucified again if he had. But he's not exactly making friends now!

Haye is still a bitch and pussied his way to a decision to collect his money. Could have have done better with a healthy foot? Who knows? No one wants to find out. Haye's reputation has been scarred forever because of this fight and rightfully so. We got scammed by a con man.

Jack

i've got to give it up to British dudes, i don't think anyone is getting too crazy about it. i've heard guys talking about Haye embarrassing them more than anything. you would expect them to say something like "that big Russian is lucky Haye's toe was hurt"



Wlad has the gearbox of a broke ass Geo Metro. a Saudi Arabian woman would have an easier time switching gears in a model t. if Haye had something remotely resembling an offense he would have taken the titles and would no longer need a car, the people of the UK would simply crowd surf him around the country.

I don't know, but with the exception of Lewis-Vitali or Wlad-Peter I, I still find the Klitschos boring. Even if they were American, I find them boring. I think that international countries may show more nationalistic pride toward their fighters because in America, the promoters and cable networks, along with casinos control all the big-time boxing. A lot of countries don't have that kind of backing so they will get a whole nation involved, who may not even be boxing fans, but they are there to support their fighter as long as he dominates, he doesn't have to be exciting.

I think HBO supported the Klitschkos years ago because they had some exciting fights and HBO liked that. A networks job is to showcase fights that are exciting to the public. People flocked to get HBO subscriptions when Tyson was fighting, NOT because he was fighting great competition. They wanted to see an ass-kicking. In the American landscape, you dominate with KO's, (prime-Tyson), a charismatic and controversial personality, (Ali) a pressure fighter (Frazier) a skilled slick boxer with strong Olympic backing and fighting your nemesis and in exciting fights, getting revenge. (Leonard, Duran-Leonard I Leonard-Duran II,) Or you dominate everyone with longevity and a big KO punch. (Louis 25 title defenses, KO percentage.) The Klits may have a big KO percentage, but it takes them forever to get a "Bum of The Month" out of there, and that is only IF they want to do that.

Internationalists watch a dominate fighter for love of country. Americans watch a fighter because there is something in what I said above that draws them in to a fighter's performance. Since the Klitscho's can't do love of country for American audiences because USA fans aren't in Germany, there is not much pride in most American's in watching the Klitschkos fight. I also blame Manny Steward for taking away the excitement that the brothers had as sluggers and turning them into safety-first boxers. I guarantee that if the Klitschkos were fighting like they used to, HBO would still be behind them.

It than raises a great question that may be answered differently by people from different parts of the world? What is most important? Winning in a methodical way with a great record backing up those wins? Or winning in an exciting way, and sometimes losing in an exciting way, but always guaranteed great fights almost every time out? (Gatti?)

The Klitschko brothers in my view certainly dominate, but fail to entertain in recent years. I see this as an American boxing writer and analyst. Saturday night, both Klitschko and Haye should have had a commitment, an obligation to perform, to transform and excite fans both casual and elite about this world heavyweight championship unification by doing something memorable, something special and none of that happened. We got an ending just like any other recent Klitschko fight, and the other title holder who was all bark and no bite.

The Klitschkos are dominate champions, but at least in America, are not stars.

Jack