QUOTE (Method @ Jul 3 2011, 10:40 AM)
To put him in the top 15 - Who has he beaten? Seriously. Who on his resume propels him to be considered among the all time greats? Its not his fault that the division has been devoid of any talent during his career, but it has, and it just doesnt afford him the possibility of being considered an ATG cuz there's no talent in his division to refer to. What's more, all his losses came against palookas.
100% agree. I've always said it is not the Klits fault that the division is so weak....BUT...it is their problem. For sure when you come to questions like this one.
I CANNOT in good conscience actually attempt to rate the guys knowing the level of shit they have beaten to garner even asking the question. This is not simply a somewhat talent lite division.....this HW division that the Klits have dominated is from what I can see the lowest, worst pool of HW in recorded history!
I mean really...the division is so bad that Holyfield can STILL be competitive in it while closing in on 50!!!!
That is a level of low that I myself have NEVER known of. Somebody mentioned Tyson's opposition in the 80's being subpar.
Biggs, Ferguson, Berbick, Spinks, Tucker, Smith, Green, Thomas, etc....may not be a list of the best HWs ever....but they all had BOATLOADS of talent compared to today's lot of HWs.
In a way...I do really feel for the Klits, but it is hard to really rank them when they have not seen the likes of the depths of the 50-90's HWs.
Again...it's important to remember it is NOT at all their fault.
But you cannot just rank thise guys at ATG or top 10-15....when the division they have fought in is considered the single worst ever.
I have a hard time believing that if you dropped both bros. off in 1974 or in 1992....that they would be THIS dominant? SURE...due to their sheer physical size, there is no doubt they win some...but at the same time...they lose some too.
They have never had a single opponent with the heart of Holyfield, the power of Shavers, Tyson or Foreman, the ability of Ali.
AND...both of Vitali's losses come to 2 fighters from that 90's generation. Wlad losing to the likes of who he has speaks volumes about how he would fair.
I think many younger people pose these questions because they did not live through those other divisions...and it's hard for them to imagine a division as deep as us older folks speak about. Sure you can watch old videos and whatnot...but it's not the same as having witnessed it first hand.
The Klits are nice guys, very skilled capable fighters, extremely huge guys. However due to their opposition I will never be able to rate then accordingly and fairly. And that is a shame. But...that's just the way it is.