I think the boxing fans who are delusional are the ones who overestimate Hopkins abilities. Hopkins has been avoiding Dawson for three years, Dawson called him out every single year and Hopkins hasn't said a thing. This is the same Hopkins that barley beat Winky Wright, this is the same Hopkins who stunk the joint when he fought Calzaghe, this is the same Hopkins who barley beat a journeymen, this is the same Hopkins who's been avoiding Chad Dawson for years.
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
Full Version: Chad Dawson will give Hopkins a beating.
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 04:12 PM) 
I think the boxing fans who are delusional are the ones who overestimate Hopkins abilities. Hopkins has been avoiding Dawson for three years, Dawson called him out every single year and Hopkins hasn't said a thing. This is the same Hopkins that barley beat Winky Wright, this is the same Hopkins who stunk the joint when he fought Calzaghe, this is the same Hopkins who barley beat a journeymen, this is the same Hopkins who's been avoiding Chad Dawson for years.
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
Barely beat Winky Wright? Stunk up the joint vs Joe Calzaghe? Barely beat a journyman? WTF kind of boxingwizard are you, dude?
What the fuck has Dawson done that would put fear into Hopkins? Seriously. Dawson might have been calling him out, but he brings ZERO MONEY to the table for what HBO was trying to set up as another infomercial (just like they tried w JT).
Why the FUCK would we watch Thomas Adameck as a preview of Bernard Hopkins? Seriously. Adameck ain't in Hopkins' league
Dawson didn't figure out shit, the only thing he figured out was how to lose to a 4 round fighter.
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 01:12 PM)
I think the boxing fans who are delusional are the ones who overestimate Hopkins abilities. Hopkins has been avoiding Dawson for three years, Dawson called him out every single year and Hopkins hasn't said a thing. This is the same Hopkins that barley beat Winky Wright, this is the same Hopkins who stunk the joint when he fought Calzaghe, this is the same Hopkins who barley beat a journeymen, this is the same Hopkins who's been avoiding Chad Dawson for years.
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
With Chad Dawson's physical skills and abilities, and with Emmanuel Steward in his corner, it won't be difficult for Dawson to figure Hopkins out. Even if Dawson didn't have Steward in his corner he would still beat Hopkins. I thought Dawson was at his best when he was training with Floyd Mayweather Sr, but Dawson has a tenancy to switch trainers often.
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 04:30 PM)
With Chad Dawson's physical skills, and with Emmanuel Steward in his corner, it won't be difficult for Dawson to figure Hopkins out. Even if Dawson didn't have Steward in his corner he would still beat Hopkins. I thought Dawson was at his best when he was training with Floyd Mayweather Sr, but Dawson has a tenancy to switch trainers often.
And yet it was Mayweather Sr that let us in on the fact that Chad was getting KTFO in sparring. Fantastic. Also said Chad was "retarded" if I remember correctly.
LMAO... Dawson has degenerated since leaving Mayweather SR... he comes off like little bitch in the character and personality department. Dude looked like crap against his last opponent with Emmanuel in his corner and he is going to beat Hopkins "easy"... sounds silly
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 3 2011, 02:55 PM)
LMAO... Dawson has degenerated since leaving Mayweather SR... he comes off like little bitch in the character and personality department. Dude looked like crap against his last opponent with Emmanuel in his corner and he is going to beat Hopkins "easy"... sounds silly
He looked better then he did against Pascal, but Dawson said he felt the ring rust. But knowing Dawson he will correct his mistakes. I remember when he fought Glen Johnson the he first time, didn't look like his dominant self and barley beat Glen Johnson. In his next fight against Antonio Tarver, he worked his ass off and looked like his old self. Sharp combinations, excellent defensively, took control of the fight.
Knowing Dawson he's already watching tapes, fixing his mistakes, and he will look like the Dawson we saw against Adamek come Oct.15. When Dawson is motivated and he wants to win, there is very few who can beat him and Hopkins isn't one of those guys that's for sure. From what I've seen from both Hopkins and Dawson, Hopkins will get a beating, I am 100% positive. I watched all their recent fights, Hopkins will be exposed for his old age and decline of skills.
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 05:56 PM)
He looked better then he did against Pascal, but Dawson said he felt the ring rust. But knowing Dawson he will correct his mistakes. I remember when he fought Glen Johnson the he first time, didn't look like his dominant self and barley beat Glen Johnson. In his next fight against Antonio Tarver, he worked his ass off and looked like his old self. Sharp combinations, excellent defensively, took control of the fight.
Knowing Dawson he's already watching tapes, fixing his mistakes, and he will look like the Dawson we saw against Adamek come Oct.15. When Dawson is motivated and he wants to win, there is very few who can beat him. Dawson has the tatent and skills to take over the LHW division.
Knowing Dawson he's already watching tapes, fixing his mistakes, and he will look like the Dawson we saw against Adamek come Oct.15. When Dawson is motivated and he wants to win, there is very few who can beat him. Dawson has the tatent and skills to take over the LHW division.
His mistakes is the fact that he fights uninterested like nothing matters, yea he has skills but he has went threw how many trainers? Why you think that is? I could see his style causing problems for X but you are a bit over board IMO! Chad gave away his zero like it was nothing so lets not act like he is Ray Robinson!
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 04:30 PM)
With Chad Dawson's physical skills and abilities, and with Emmanuel Steward in his corner, it won't be difficult for Dawson to figure Hopkins out. Even if Dawson didn't have Steward in his corner he would still beat Hopkins. I thought Dawson was at his best when he was training with Floyd Mayweather Sr, but Dawson has a tenancy to switch trainers often.
Dawson reminds me so much of a bigger Jermaine Taylor. He can fight, but goes into those lulls where he allows himself to get hit. I pull; my hair out evertime I see him do that. For Dawson, it seems that he always loses his focus in the 8th or 9th round. he gets hit with something big and either goes down or is stunned. That seems to wake him up to finish the fights strong. I think he'll beat Hopkins. Hopkins will have a strong 8th and 9th. I think Dawson will snap out of his lulls enough to beat him. I think, like in the Taylor fights, Hopkins will be tentative and overly defensive fighting a bigger stronger man, just like he was when he was in there with Taylor. Speed and workrate are the things that beat Hopkins everytime.
QUOTE (caneman @ Jul 3 2011, 07:05 PM)
His mistakes is the fact that he fights uninterested like nothing matters, yea he has skills but he has went threw how many trainers? Why you think that is? I could see his tyle causing problems for X but you are a bit over board IMO! Chad gave away his zero like it was nothing so lets not act like he is Ray Robinson!
Exactly Cane. Notice how Manny Steward's hair on top is missing. Its because Dawson is making him pull it out in sparring. His disinterest or lack of focus is frustrating to watch. I find myself yelling for him to just jab when the guy is in range to be hit and he just stands there. Dawson, like Jermaine taylor can be very tough to watch.
QUOTE (Boxingwizard @ Jul 3 2011, 01:12 PM)
I think the boxing fans who are delusional are the ones who overestimate Hopkins abilities. Hopkins has been avoiding Dawson for three years, Dawson called him out every single year and Hopkins hasn't said a thing. This is the same Hopkins that barley beat Winky Wright, this is the same Hopkins who stunk the joint when he fought Calzaghe, this is the same Hopkins who barley beat a journeymen, this is the same Hopkins who's been avoiding Chad Dawson for years.
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
This is what Dawson means when he says Hopkins hasn't looked different and despite beating Pascal, there is nothing Hopkins has done that will put fear in Dawson's mind, other than losing to a 46 year old which is more of an embarrassment. I think Dawson is too fast, too young, and too skilled for Hopkins to handle.
When Hopkins beat Pascal, I'm pretty sure Hopkins watched the last 4 rounds where Dawson finally figured Pacsal out. (Dawson had personal problems during that night and had a long layoff-, so he wasn't 100% mentally in it).
Dawson doesn't throw looping punchers, he's not easily open to counters, he is just like Hopkins a pure boxer, but that's where the similarity ends. Anyone want to see a preview of Dawson vs Hopkins, watch this fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfxqZS4sCI
Dawson will win in my mind. But Hopkins will have a chance he will give Dawson mad trouble.
Hopkins will lose the same way he lost to Calzaghe and Taylor, by being out worked. Dawson doesn't have a killer instinct and no one has ever given Hopkins a beating and never will.
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jul 3 2011, 08:34 PM)
Hopkins will lose the same way he lost to Calzaghe and Taylor, by being out worked. Dawson doesn't have a killer instinct and no one has ever given Hopkins a beating and never will.
Dawson doesnt have the work rate of Calzaghe. What's more, Dawson aint the moneymaker that Calzaghe was, so, while most ringside thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, because of his money making appeal, he wont get the benefits of the doubts like Calz did.
Dawson froze up like a dear in headlights at the first sign of aggression by Pascal, and it took him 10 rounds to pop his head out.
Dawson is going to get Tarver'd.
QUOTE (Method @ Jul 3 2011, 05:38 PM)
Dawson doesnt have the work rate of Calzaghe. What's more, Dawson aint the moneymaker that Calzaghe was, so, while most ringside thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, because of his money making appeal, he wont get the benefits of the doubts like Calz did.
Dawson froze up like a dear in headlights at the first sign of aggression by Pascal, and it took him 10 rounds to pop his head out.
Dawson is going to get Tarver'd.
Dawson froze up like a dear in headlights at the first sign of aggression by Pascal, and it took him 10 rounds to pop his head out.
Dawson is going to get Tarver'd.
Styles make fights, Pascal gave Dawson trouble, but Hopkins fights nothing like Pascal, and the fight was close before the head-butt and Dawson was starting to turn it on. You speak of Dawson's low work-rate, but yet he averaged 53 punches a round against Diaconu. Hopkins has the work-rate of a grandpa compared to Dawson.
And you know NOTHING of boxing if you think Hopkins is capable of dismantling Dawson like he did against Tarver. Look Hopkins is 46 years old, his skills have declined greatly, he's not the boxer he once was. Dawson is nothing like Tarver except they are southpaws.
I don't know you Hopkins fans always overestimate his abilities. Hopkins has been past his prime since 2005 when he fought Howard Eastman. If Hopkins showed his dominant form like he did 12 years ago, I would say the fight be more competitive, but it's going to be A WHITE-WASH. I think Dawson might get him out of there or badly humiliate him. Everyone will be surprised how Dawson easily beats him.
Yeah... like he did his last opponent he barely scraped past... man layoff or no layoff.. If Dawson was all you purport he would have emphatically won his last bout a against guy no where near the level of even a 46 year old Hopkins.. face it.. sports is damned near 85% mental and Dawson is a mental midget!!! It is gonna take more than occassional shoe shine flurrying to beat Hopkins. Dawson started reading his own press clippings and then split from the best thing he had going for him.. working with Mayweather sr...
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 3 2011, 06:00 PM)
Yeah... like he did his last opponent he barely scraped past... man layoff or no layoff.. If Dawson was all you purport he would have emphatically won his last bout a against guy no where near the level of even a 46 year old Hopkins.. face it.. sports is damned near 85% mental and Dawson is a mental midget!!! It is gonna take more than occassional shoe shine flurrying to beat Hopkins. Dawson started reading his own press clippings and then split from the best thing he had going for him.. working with Mayweather sr...
Diaconu is not a bad boxer by any means, he can punch and he put up a competitive fight against Pascal. Diaconu is a 10 LHW and his only losses are to Pascal and Dawson. Styles make fights, Diaconu would probably have been competitive against Hopkins, although I would favor Hopkins to beat him at his age.
People criticize Dawson's toughness, but he's never been knocked out. He went tooth and nail against Glen Johnson, Allen Green was knocked out in 8 rounds by Johnson. He took shots from both Pascal and Diaconu who are punchers, and was never knocked down or even close to it.
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 3 2011, 08:53 PM)
Ok, so it's unacceptable to have a close fight with Wright, but totally acceptable to scrape by Dianocu.
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
Dianocu is a tougher fight than Winky... Especially a Fat Winky Wright. Winky is and always has been overrated!
Anyways.. Styles make fights... So the comparisons are really pointless.
Dawson is quick, athletic, strong, and he puts his punches together well. A B-Hop victory would certainly not be shocking but people act as if this will be a cake walk for the old man. I'll put it to you like this... Dawson is a lot better than the Jermain Taylor who outpointed Hopkins twice! ( and Yes, I acknowledge that both fights were close.)
QUOTE (Method @ Jul 3 2011, 07:38 PM)
Dawson doesnt have the work rate of Calzaghe. What's more, Dawson aint the moneymaker that Calzaghe was, so, while most ringside thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, because of his money making appeal, he wont get the benefits of the doubts like Calz did.
Dawson froze up like a dear in headlights at the first sign of aggression by Pascal, and it took him 10 rounds to pop his head out.
Dawson is going to get Tarver'd.
Dawson froze up like a dear in headlights at the first sign of aggression by Pascal, and it took him 10 rounds to pop his head out.
Dawson is going to get Tarver'd.
I hope your right Meth cause I'm not a big fan of Dawson and Hopkins is my second favorite active fighter.
QUOTE (Method @ Jul 3 2011, 07:38 PM)
Dawson doesnt have the work rate of Calzaghe. What's more, Dawson aint the moneymaker that Calzaghe was, so, while most ringside thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, because of his money making appeal, he wont get the benefits of the doubts like Calz did.
LOL... Most people thought Calzaghe won that fight which he did!
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 3 2011, 10:37 PM)
LOL... Most people thought Calzaghe won that fight which he did!
Not most sitting ringside. Calzaghe couldnt land jack.
No one wins easy against Nard. Nard has lost a number fo fights & they have all been close. Close but clear in my eyes but no one has dominated him let alone knocked him out.
I seriously doubt Dawson will dominate or knock Nard out. He may win a decision but it won't be a 10-2 type of situation maybe a 7-5 if he is lucky & that luck will be based on Hopkins being inactive during rounds rather than Dawson's ability.
I seriously doubt Dawson will dominate or knock Nard out. He may win a decision but it won't be a 10-2 type of situation maybe a 7-5 if he is lucky & that luck will be based on Hopkins being inactive during rounds rather than Dawson's ability.
Hopkins is going to beat the shit out of Dawson. Hopkins is better skilled, better fighter
Mayweather sr agrees with you!!!
If Chad is motivated...... It almost sounds like the "focus" of Zab Judah. Maybe the unmotivated Dawson is the real Chad Dawson.
I am a Hopkins fan but I am not one of these guys that goes on about his latest accomplishments. At this point if Dawson did beat Hopkins my opinion is so what. The guy is 843 years old.
I really don't think it takes a great fighter to beat Hopkins at this point in his career. I think a good fighter can beat him. Just make him fight for 3 minutes every round.
I am a Hopkins fan but I am not one of these guys that goes on about his latest accomplishments. At this point if Dawson did beat Hopkins my opinion is so what. The guy is 843 years old.
I really don't think it takes a great fighter to beat Hopkins at this point in his career. I think a good fighter can beat him. Just make him fight for 3 minutes every round.
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 4 2011, 12:37 PM)
LOL... Most people thought Calzaghe won that fight which he did!
Don't bother getting into it with Method. Hopkins has never lost a fight in Methods eyes bar the first RJJ one 45 years ago.
Nothing you or anyone else says will change that so why bother trying.
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 5 2011, 07:01 PM)
So I take it, you don't think anything Hopkins has done is special at this age?
Age is just a number, and while he is not in his prime, he is still a very good fighter. Where do you have Hopkins on a p4p list? From the sounds of it, I'm assuming you have him outside the top 15 and maybe outside the top 20.
Age is just a number, and while he is not in his prime, he is still a very good fighter. Where do you have Hopkins on a p4p list? From the sounds of it, I'm assuming you have him outside the top 15 and maybe outside the top 20.
I'll clarify. I do think what Hops has done at his age is special. But I'm not blown away by Hopkins latest performances. While i do agree with you that hops is still a very good fighter, i think his latest fights are really a product of what his opponents aren't doing as opposed to what hops is doing. JMO
As far as the second comment, if age is just a number then why use it to validate bernard (per your first comment) unless I am misunderstanding you which could easily be the case.
Though I am not much of a P4P list guy I would easily have Bernard in the top 10. Most likely somewhere around 4-6.
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 5 2011, 07:31 PM)
Don't bother getting into it with Method. Hopkins has never lost a fight in Methods eyes bar the first RJJ one 45 years ago.
Nothing you or anyone else says will change that so why bother trying.
Nothing you or anyone else says will change that so why bother trying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyz2cws8LBE
ANTHONY ACCURATE ABOBVE====Great NARRATION- IN THAT VIDEO ON YOUTUBE--CALZAGHE WAS AWFUL... this was definitely a robbery... bottom line he did nothing to offset being on the canvas..
"whenever I see sweat flying it is usually from Calzaghe's face"...-- Max Kellerman-- all night the commentary was Hopkins landing the only clean punches.
Now who in the hell can dispute Calzaghe losing after watching the video... It didn't take the video for me to know that Hopkins was robbed.
I see why that ass left the sport-- he would never get in the ring with BH again.. who in rematches is a lock... Calzaghe really had a deceptive slapping style accentuated by a crowd that roared when ever he ran off his pussy girl punches... I gave him at most 3 rounds and I am being generous...
"whenever I see sweat flying it is usually from Calzaghe's face"...-- Max Kellerman-- all night the commentary was Hopkins landing the only clean punches.
Now who in the hell can dispute Calzaghe losing after watching the video... It didn't take the video for me to know that Hopkins was robbed.
I see why that ass left the sport-- he would never get in the ring with BH again.. who in rematches is a lock... Calzaghe really had a deceptive slapping style accentuated by a crowd that roared when ever he ran off his pussy girl punches... I gave him at most 3 rounds and I am being generous...
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 5 2011, 10:19 PM)
I disagree, I think what he is doing at this age is special. He is 46 years old, most fighters aren't even performing at 50-60% of what Hopkins is doing a decade earlier. Most fighters become basically shot between 32-38.
You can say his opposition isn't ATG material, but I don't see other guys his age or much younger doing anything remotely close to what Hopkins is doing to this caliber of opposition. Just look at Mosley, RJJ, DLH as examples. I doubt they even do what he is doing, even if the opposition is similar to Hopkins' opponents.
His opposition has been world class fighters anyways, not just some journeyman or anything.
I am saying 'age is just a number' when you are not going to give a guy like Dawson credit for beating Hopkins. Most people rate Hopkins in the top 5 and worst top 10 p4p. This is what I meant when I say "age is just a number" when you're not going to give Dawson credit because Hopkins is old. As I am referring to this comment you made.
"At this point if Dawson did beat Hopkins my opinion is so what. The guy is 843 years old."
To me, it doesn't make sense. You're a top 10 fighter or you're not a top 10 fighter. Any other fighter that beats someone else in the top 10 would get credit, as it's a win over a very good opponent. We know Hopkins is old, we know what he is doing is special, but at the end of the day, he is top 10, so I don't see how someone doesn't get credit for beating a p4p fighter.
People did the same when Calzaghe beat him, they said....."oh, he beat an old man Hopkins". Yeah Hopkins was old, and not in his prime, but still a top 5 p4p fighter at the time.
He is my favourite fighter, but so many people are so bias it's not funny, they try to have it both ways. They want to rate Hopkins as a top 5 p4p fighter, but when he loses, it doesn't count because he is old. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I just find it so strange that people will not credit a win over a top 10 p4p fighter, and you're not the only one that has used this formula when Hopkins is involved.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but seriously, don't you find it strange? If you were to not name any names, and someone was to tell you that a win over a top 5-10 p4p fighter doesn't mean much, what would you think?
By no means, do I think Hopkins is prime and Calzaghe beat or would beat a prime Hopkins, or if Dawson were to win, doesn't mean he beats a prime Hopkins. I'm just saying the the current Hopkins is very old, but very good. A win over him is still one of the better wins you can get, as it's over a very highly rated fighter.
It just seems like if you don't think a win over him at this stage is a big deal, you probably shouldn't be rating him in the top 10-15, or anyone for that matter.
You can say his opposition isn't ATG material, but I don't see other guys his age or much younger doing anything remotely close to what Hopkins is doing to this caliber of opposition. Just look at Mosley, RJJ, DLH as examples. I doubt they even do what he is doing, even if the opposition is similar to Hopkins' opponents.
His opposition has been world class fighters anyways, not just some journeyman or anything.
I am saying 'age is just a number' when you are not going to give a guy like Dawson credit for beating Hopkins. Most people rate Hopkins in the top 5 and worst top 10 p4p. This is what I meant when I say "age is just a number" when you're not going to give Dawson credit because Hopkins is old. As I am referring to this comment you made.
"At this point if Dawson did beat Hopkins my opinion is so what. The guy is 843 years old."
To me, it doesn't make sense. You're a top 10 fighter or you're not a top 10 fighter. Any other fighter that beats someone else in the top 10 would get credit, as it's a win over a very good opponent. We know Hopkins is old, we know what he is doing is special, but at the end of the day, he is top 10, so I don't see how someone doesn't get credit for beating a p4p fighter.
People did the same when Calzaghe beat him, they said....."oh, he beat an old man Hopkins". Yeah Hopkins was old, and not in his prime, but still a top 5 p4p fighter at the time.
He is my favourite fighter, but so many people are so bias it's not funny, they try to have it both ways. They want to rate Hopkins as a top 5 p4p fighter, but when he loses, it doesn't count because he is old. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I just find it so strange that people will not credit a win over a top 10 p4p fighter, and you're not the only one that has used this formula when Hopkins is involved.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but seriously, don't you find it strange? If you were to not name any names, and someone was to tell you that a win over a top 5-10 p4p fighter doesn't mean much, what would you think?
By no means, do I think Hopkins is prime and Calzaghe beat or would beat a prime Hopkins, or if Dawson were to win, doesn't mean he beats a prime Hopkins. I'm just saying the the current Hopkins is very old, but very good. A win over him is still one of the better wins you can get, as it's over a very highly rated fighter.
It just seems like if you don't think a win over him at this stage is a big deal, you probably shouldn't be rating him in the top 10-15, or anyone for that matter.
Well first I did say what Hopkins is doing at his age is special. I guess that would speak to the accomplishment. I did say, however, I was not blown away by the performance. The accomplishment is great. The performance during said accomplishment, not so much.
Now to your other point of not giving Dawson credit for beating a top ten fighter, regardless of age, has validity. I will recant that statement as you have made an excellent point.
[quote name='alaganza' date='Jul 5 2011, 07:57 PM' post='526672']
I'll clarify. I do think what Hops has done at his age is special. But I'm not blown away by Hopkins latest performances. While i do agree with you that hops is still a very good fighter, i think his latest fights are really a product of what his opponents aren't doing as opposed to what hops is doing. JMO
hops opponents are not doing what they are supposed to be doing because he is not letting them.. DON'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE THAT OUT...Hops neutralizes what these guys supposedly do well as testimony to his great boxing mind...
I'll clarify. I do think what Hops has done at his age is special. But I'm not blown away by Hopkins latest performances. While i do agree with you that hops is still a very good fighter, i think his latest fights are really a product of what his opponents aren't doing as opposed to what hops is doing. JMO
hops opponents are not doing what they are supposed to be doing because he is not letting them.. DON'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE THAT OUT...Hops neutralizes what these guys supposedly do well as testimony to his great boxing mind...
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 6 2011, 12:26 AM)
QUOTE (alaganza @ Jul 5 2011, 07:57 PM)
I'll clarify. I do think what Hops has done at his age is special. But I'm not blown away by Hopkins latest performances. While i do agree with you that hops is still a very good fighter, i think his latest fights are really a product of what his opponents aren't doing as opposed to what hops is doing. JMO
hops opponents are not doing what they are supposed to be doing because he is not letting them.. DON'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE THAT OUT...Hops neutralizes what these guys supposedly do well as testimony to his great boxing mind...
For the better part of his career yes. That's why I say it's his latest fights. Don't take a rocket scientist to read that clearly. It's just my opinion. You have yours and I respect it.
Hopkins might be more vulnerable at this age but Dawson isn't a flawless fighter. he's look disinterested lately and dropped countless rounds to Pascal that he probably could have won if he actually boxed, he just let Pascal take control of the fight. there hasn't been enough time or improvements to say Stewards has changed him.
i see Hopkins landing the clean shots and taking Dawson off of his game with footwork and defense.
i see Hopkins landing the clean shots and taking Dawson off of his game with footwork and defense.
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 6 2011, 06:43 AM)
Oh yep, that makes more sense. You're seperating the accomplishment with the performance itself. I can see what you're saying, and would agree. I still think the Pascal win is good regardless, but it was more the circustances around Hopkins that made it special.
I understand now, I thought you were just talking about it in general and as a whole.
Thanks man. I must say, it was a pleasure to debate with you. Not all the time you deal with people like yourself when two people are trying to make points, haha.
I understand now, I thought you were just talking about it in general and as a whole.
Thanks man. I must say, it was a pleasure to debate with you. Not all the time you deal with people like yourself when two people are trying to make points, haha.
Thank you. The pleasure was mine.
QUOTE (alaganza @ Jul 5 2011, 11:54 PM)
hops opponents are not doing what they are supposed to be doing because he is not letting them.. DON'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE THAT OUT...Hops neutralizes what these guys supposedly do well as testimony to his great boxing mind...
For the better part of his career yes. That's why I say it's his latest fights. Don't take a rocket scientist to read that clearly. It's just my opinion. You have yours and I respect it.
For the better part of his career yes. That's why I say it's his latest fights. Don't take a rocket scientist to read that clearly. It's just my opinion. You have yours and I respect it.
I got you. In watching Hopkins career lately he has integrated the complete mix of footwork, defense, boxing from the outside and infighting. In his last two bouts with the then 175 pound champ Pascal, Hopkins really showed all styles in the ring and he displayed a masterful jab at 46... The guy is simply one of the greatest ever...
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