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thehype
Actually...never mind...I know Google can be tricky for some of you guys.

laugh.gif

Here's the deal. WADA doesn't do the testing....they leave that responsibility up to each National Anti-Doping Organization (NADO). The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is just one of many NADOs. Obviously, USADA handles the testing here in the US. In the Philippines, the Philippines Sports Commission (PSC) handles the testing. So, I assume what Bob Arum is proposing is that USADA can test Floyd while PSC tests Manny.

I could be wrong, but I HIGHLY DOUBT that solution is going to be acceptable to Floyd.

Now, personally, in my opinion, if the fight is going to be in the United States, WHICH IT IS, and governed under a United States boxing commission, WHICH IT WILL BE, then naturally, USADA should be the organization handling the tests. I mean, if you think about it, what Bob Arum is basically suggesting is on par with the Nevada State Athletic Commission testing Zab Judah, while the British Boxing Board of Control tests Amir Khan for their upcoming fight. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

Now, a possible solution could be for USADA to test Manny and the PSC to test Floyd...I mean...assuming that Bob Arum is truly concerned about neutrality.

No matter how you slice it though, in my opinion, Bob Arum has successfully found a way to make the issue of drug testing even MORE complicated than it ever was.

Touche Bob....touche.

caneman
oh please! lmfao Myself, I never thought or believed the test were agreed to with no cut off and I also believe they had a 2nd negotiation and when they asked for a cut off date! I don't believe money may or arum or videos on youtube and truly believe the whole truth is somewhere in the middle! NOT THAT I DON'T BELIEVE ARUM IS THE BIGGEST LIAR IN ALL THIS, but then again it could all be just talk just like FMJ when he said he wasn't fighting Ortiz when he knew he was!!!!
D-MARV
WAR Bobby Arum!... bitch.








gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 11 2011, 03:30 PM) *
Actually...never mind...I know Google can be tricky for some of you guys.

laugh.gif

Here's the deal. WADA doesn't do the testing....they leave that responsibility up to each National Anti-Doping Organization (NADO). The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is just one of many NADOs. Obviously, USADA handles the testing here in the US. In the Philippines, the Philippines Sports Commission (PSC) handles the testing. So, I assume what Bob Arum is proposing is that USADA can test Floyd while PSC tests Manny.

I could be wrong, but I HIGHLY DOUBT that solution is going to be acceptable to Floyd.

Now, personally, in my opinion, if the fight is going to be in the United States, WHICH IT IS, and governed under a United States boxing commission, WHICH IT WILL BE, then naturally, USADA should be the organization handling the tests. I mean, if you think about it, what Bob Arum is basically suggesting is on par with the Nevada State Athletic Commission testing Zab Judah, while the British Boxing Board of Control tests Amir Khan for their upcoming fight. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

Now, a possible solution could be for USADA to test Manny and the PSC to test Floyd...I mean...assuming that Bob Arum is truly concerned about neutrality.

No matter how you slice it though, in my opinion, Bob Arum has successfully found a way to make the issue of drug testing even MORE complicated than it ever was.

Touche Bob....touche.


that's putting it lightly. it would be like the Texas commission testing Pac and the Ghanian anti-doping agency testing Clottey. somehow you've to question the effectiveness of it. call me biased but i've a hard time seeing their agency reporting someone like Pac if he tested positive for something, he's only the icon congressman that donates a lot to charity and is probably their most famous athlete of the past century.



caneman
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 11 2011, 03:01 PM) *
that's putting it lightly. it would be like the Texas commission testing Pac and the Ghanian anti-doping agency testing Clottey. somehow you've to question the effectiveness of it. call me biased but i've a hard time seeing their agency reporting someone like Pac if he tested positive for something, he's only the icon congressman that donates a lot to charity and is probably their most famous athlete of the past century.



Really and the NSAC SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING OTHER THEN WHAT THEY NORMALLY DO!
gravytrain
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 03:53 PM) *
WAR Bobby Arum!... bitch.


i was going to say that he needed a hate vehicle but he might actually slip in the shower and bust his ass or something lol
Spyder
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 11 2011, 03:02 PM) *
Noooooooo....

What....

I....

am....

saying....

is....

if....

Bob Arum....

agreed....

to....

all....

terms....

like....

he....

said....

they....

did.....

prior....

to...

giving....

Floyd....

the....

deadline....

last....

year....

then....

why......

is.....

USADA.....

a.....

problem....

now....

if....

USADA....

was....

not.....

a.....

problem....

back....

then?????

If, there were negotiations, like Pacquiao's side claims, then Bob Arum LIED about agreeing to all terms if he is JUST NOW claiming that they agree to full random blood testing so long as it's NOT USADA.

If, there were no negotiations, like Mayweather's side claims, then again, Bob Arum LIED about agreeing to all terms.

My question is very simple....when EXACTLY did USADA become a problem for Pacquiao's side if they previously agreed to all terms?

I really don't expect you to provide any meaningful dialogue regarding that very simple question, however, so I guess I'm just asking in general.

"After further consideration..."

If no contract is signed, then shame on Floyd for not stepping up before Bob lost faith in USADA. Sorry bro, but that's the way things go when you are slow...

QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 11 2011, 03:30 PM) *
Actually...never mind...I know Google can be tricky for some of you guys.

laugh.gif

Here's the deal. WADA doesn't do the testing....they leave that responsibility up to each National Anti-Doping Organization (NADO). The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is just one of many NADOs. Obviously, USADA handles the testing here in the US. In the Philippines, the Philippines Sports Commission (PSC) handles the testing. So, I assume what Bob Arum is proposing is that USADA can test Floyd while PSC tests Manny.

I could be wrong, but I HIGHLY DOUBT that solution is going to be acceptable to Floyd.

Now, personally, in my opinion, if the fight is going to be in the United States, WHICH IT IS, and governed under a United States boxing commission, WHICH IT WILL BE, then naturally, USADA should be the organization handling the tests. I mean, if you think about it, what Bob Arum is basically suggesting is on par with the Nevada State Athletic Commission testing Zab Judah, while the British Boxing Board of Control tests Amir Khan for their upcoming fight. That doesn't make any fucking sense.

Now, a possible solution could be for USADA to test Manny and the PSC to test Floyd...I mean...assuming that Bob Arum is truly concerned about neutrality.

No matter how you slice it though, in my opinion, Bob Arum has successfully found a way to make the issue of drug testing even MORE complicated than it ever was.

Touche Bob....touche.

So WADA makes every Olympic athlete get tested by the host country's agency prior to the event? The logistics of that is amazing!

Interesting that they wouldn't just have those athletes tested by their own country's approved agency...then maybe just have the host country test after the event.

dntknw.gif

I'm no Olympic/Drug Testing scholar like Floyd is, but that just makes sense to me. ESPECIALLY, since he's already demanding something closer to the Olympic standard then already exists.

But regardless, the fight will never get made. These guys are like a married couple going through a rough patch...all of their friends (read: Fans) want to see it work, but the two involved seem more interested in picking up some EASY strange from the bar. Sooner or later, when it's OBVIOUS that neither guy wants to make it work, all of their friends just need to let 'em call it quits.

Drug testing is just an excuse...just like "You don't pay attention to me anymore. cray.gif " The marriage counselor(Arbitrator) wiped his hands of this two years ago, and honestly so did a lot of boxing fans. The only people still interested are the "fighter only" fans, and the guys looking to cash out. You don't need to try and sell it to us as anything else, Hype. It's cool that you got access to Floyd in a way that NOBODY else in the media has...with the exception of HBO's 24/7 crew. I'm truly happy for you. You put in a lot of work to get to that point, and you deserve it.

Just don't get mad at us for not buying either sides' sob story. We've heard it all enough times to just stop caring, and roll our eyes...

rolleyes_anim.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 11 2011, 04:33 PM) *
"After further consideration..."

If no contract is signed, then shame on Floyd for not stepping up before Bob lost faith in USADA. Sorry bro, but that's the way things go when you are slow...


There was nothing to sign when they were still asking for a 14-day cut-off. Shame on Bob for lying to you and making you believe that they actually did agree to all terms when, what he really meant to say was, "We had a change of heart. We're now ready to accept the 14-day offer that was on the table when we walked away from mediation."

QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 11 2011, 04:33 PM) *
So WADA makes every Olympic athlete get tested by the host country's agency prior to the event? The logistics of that is amazing!

Interesting that they wouldn't just have those athletes tested by their own country's approved agency...then maybe just have the host country test after the event.

dntknw.gif

I'm no Olympic/Drug Testing scholar like Floyd is, but that just makes sense to me. ESPECIALLY, since he's already demanding something closer to the Olympic standard then already exists.


HUH? I believe that's what I just said. WADA let's each NADO handle the testing. In other words, our US Olympic athletes are tested by USADA before they compete in the Olympic Games, no matter who the host country is. British athletes are tested by UK Anti-Doping, etc. I HIGHLY DOUBT Floyd Mayweather is going to feel comfortable about the neutrality of the Philippines Sports Commission (PSC) testing one of their Congressman and their most beloved athlete. That's kind of the reason why Bob Arum is saying WADA now....he already knows Floyd ain't going to trust that.

Expect Pacquiao vs. Bradley some time in May next year.

laugh.gif

QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 11 2011, 04:33 PM) *
Drug testing is just an excuse...just like "You don't pay attention to me anymore. cray.gif " The marriage counselor(Arbitrator) wiped his hands of this two years ago, and honestly so did a lot of boxing fans. The only people still interested are the "fighter only" fans, and the guys looking to cash out. You don't need to try and sell it to us as anything else, Hype. It's cool that you got access to Floyd in a way that NOBODY else in the media has...with the exception of HBO's 24/7 crew. I'm truly happy for you. You put in a lot of work to get to that point, and you deserve it.

Just don't get mad at us for not buying either sides' sob story. We've heard it all enough times to just stop caring, and roll our eyes...

rolleyes_anim.gif


It's not an excuse at all. If someone, hypothetically, believes another person could be cheating, then they're going to want them to take some tests...simple as that.

And the arbitrator didn't "wipe his hands" of this....on the contrary, Bob Arum walked away from the whole arbitration process. There's a difference.

And honestly, if so many boxing fans wiped their hands of this, as you say, then why do so many boxing fans still talk about it, debate it, argue it, predict it, etc? LOL.

And for the record, I'm not selling you anything and nobody is mad at you for buying either side's "sob story"....at least I certainly never said I was. All I've been trying to do is clarify certain issues that people are confused about and have been asking about...simple as that. You can choose to believe whatever the fvck you want to believe. I'm fine with that. However, if people are going to keep directing questions to me, or taking the time to comment on my response, as you did, then you can expect a reply. If you don't care, you wiped your hands of it, and you're not interested in it, then please, don't waste my time by replying to my comments.
Spyder
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 11 2011, 04:47 PM) *
There was nothing to sign when they were still asking for a 14-day cut-off. Shame on Bob for lying to you and making you believe that they actually did agree to all terms when, what he really meant to say was, "We had a change of heart. We're now ready to accept the 14-day offer that was on the table when we walked away from mediation."



HUH? I believe that's what I just said. WADA let's each NADO handle the testing. In other words, our US Olympic athletes are tested by USADA before they compete in the Olympic Games, no matter who the host country is. British athletes are tested by UK Anti-Doping, etc. I HIGHLY DOUBT Floyd Mayweather is going to feel comfortable about the neutrality of the Philippines Sports Commission (PSC) testing one of their Congressman and their most beloved athlete. That's kind of the reason why Bob Arum is saying WADA now....he already knows Floyd ain't going to trust that.

Expect Pacquiao vs. Bradley some time in May next year.

laugh.gif



It's not an excuse at all. If someone, hypothetically, believes another person could be cheating, then they're going to want them to take some tests...simple as that.

And the arbitrator didn't "wipe his hands" of this....on the contrary, Bob Arum walked away from the whole arbitration process. There's a difference.

And honestly, if so many boxing fans wiped their hands of this, as you say, then why do so many boxing fans still talk about it, debate it, argue it, predict it, etc? LOL.

And for the record, I'm not selling you anything and nobody is mad at you for buying either side's "sob story"....at least I certainly never said I was. All I've been trying to do is clarify certain issues that people are confused about and have been asking about...simple as that. You can choose to believe whatever the fvck you want to believe. I'm fine with that. However, if people are going to keep directing questions to me, or taking the time to comment on my response, as you did, then you can expect a reply. If you don't care, you wiped your hands of it, and you're not interested in it, then please, don't waste my time by replying to my comments.

It's just annoying that the same topic keeps getting posted and re-posted by the Floyd/Pac "super-fans" when there obviously is no change in the situation, and the fight is no closer to ever happening.

But, explanations shouldn't take multiple threads to sort out...

"Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

The hoops that the fans are being asked to jump through to believe that Bob Arum is the sole person preventing this fight from happening, are more plentiful than the hoops that indicate simply...neither side wants to make the fight. So if it's true that Bob is the guy that pulls Manny's strings that would implicate him...and if it's true that Floyd is his "own boss"...well, I think you can understand why the boxing fans...not the Floyd Mayweather fans...but BOXING fans, blame him for it as well.

In the end, Bob's legacy as a promoter will not be affected by it...and Manny has Bob to thank for saving his own legacy...so guess which guy gets to feel the brunt of it...

Fitz
Spot on.
Hotsauce
USADA Responds: There is No Bias Against Pacquiao

http://www.boxingscene.com/usada-responds-...pacquiao--41420
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 12 2011, 05:02 AM) *
My question is very simple....when EXACTLY did USADA become a problem for Pacquiao's side if they previously agreed to all terms?


I am curious was the USDA named as the testing organization or was it just Olympic style drug testing that was stipulated in the "contract"? If it was just OSDT then I can see why there could be a problem but if the USDA was named & now the goalposts have moved again then that is ridiculous. If it was not named & it was just listed as random OSDT then what Arum is asking seems fair enough.

Either way this fight will be a big letdown for boxing fans as both guys are not getting any younger.

gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 07:17 PM) *
I am curious was the USDA named as the testing organization or was it just Olympic style drug testing that was stipulated in the "contract"? If it was just OSDT then I can see why there could be a problem but if the USDA was named & now the goalposts have moved again then that is ridiculous. If it was not named & it was just listed as random OSDT then what Arum is asking seems fair enough.

Either way this fight will be a big letdown for boxing fans as both guys are not getting any younger.


i don't really see who else they would have used other than the USADA. i think it's kind of weird that Arum would want the Filipino agency testing Pac when dude spends at least a month training in America for his fights.

D-MARV
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 11 2011, 07:28 PM) *
i don't really see who else they would have used other than the USADA. i think it's kind of weird that Arum would want the Filipino agency testing Pac when dude spends at least a month training in America for his fights.

Arum just doesn't want to make the fight... It's as simple as that.

Just a few months ago, Arum swore up and down that Manny agreed to the fight and even went as far as to give Floyd a deadline... now he wants to change the testing.


Hype, What's the latest on this? Has anybody from Team Mayweather commented on Arum's "change of heart"?
Sicko
Arum is working on another reason to not make this fight, I think the truth is starting to slow come out as far as the REAL REASON WHY THIS FIGHT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET...and it is not because of Mayweather...it is BOB ARUM and his EGO!

This is what happens when you try to make everything Public and your try to hurt a guy image by getting the NEW BOXING FANS to believe that Mayweather is afraid and he is ducking and dodge fighters...Ironically all of those fighters he is accused of ducking just so happen to be on TOP RANK but no other Promotion huh.gif

not sure why he would be so concern with "What Would Happen With The Test Results" that alone is EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS, if your clean...THEN WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
caneman
QUOTE (Sicko @ Jul 11 2011, 06:51 PM) *
Arum is working on another reason to not make this fight, I think the truth is starting to slow come out as far as the REAL REASON WHY THIS FIGHT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET...and it is not because of Mayweather...it is BOB ARUM and his EGO!

This is what happens when you try to make everything Public and your try to hurt a guy image by getting the NEW BOXING FANS to believe that Mayweather is afraid and he is ducking and dodge fighters...Ironically all of those fighters he is accused of ducking just so happen to be on TOP RANK but no other Promotion huh.gif

not sure why he would be so concern with "What Would Happen With The Test Results" that alone is EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS, if your clean...THEN WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?



lolz, really cause FMJ has fought everyone the last 4 plus years! THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS REVERSE PACTARDS AROUND HERE! All good though, all for the love of boxing I guess!!! drinks.gif
gravytrain
QUOTE (Sicko @ Jul 11 2011, 07:51 PM) *
Arum is working on another reason to not make this fight, I think the truth is starting to slow come out as far as the REAL REASON WHY THIS FIGHT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET...and it is not because of Mayweather...it is BOB ARUM and his EGO!

This is what happens when you try to make everything Public and your try to hurt a guy image by getting the NEW BOXING FANS to believe that Mayweather is afraid and he is ducking and dodge fighters...Ironically all of those fighters he is accused of ducking just so happen to be on TOP RANK but no other Promotion huh.gif

not sure why he would be so concern with "What Would Happen With The Test Results" that alone is EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS, if your clean...THEN WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?


i think it has nothing to do with talking shit to Mayweather, he can do that for fun. but honestly i think Arum took the testing as an opportunity. he's made so much more money and put TR in a better position than if they just fought back when they first started talking about it.

Sicko
QUOTE (caneman @ Jul 11 2011, 05:00 PM) *
lolz, really cause FMJ has fought everyone the last 4 plus years! THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS REVERSE PACTARDS AROUND HERE! All good though, all for the love of boxing I guess!!! drinks.gif


you again with this "Reverse Pactard" BS...I don't even know what that is or what that mean, I just call it like I see it, I see Bob Arum manipulating the "NEW BOXING FANS" and taking advantage of "PACQUIAO FANS" because he knows they don't know any better and they will believe what ever he and Pacquiao tells them

it is not hard to influence fans who only been watching boxing since the RISE OF PACQUIAO'S FAME nea.gif
gravytrain
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 07:36 PM) *
Arum just doesn't want to make the fight... It's as simple as that.

Just a few months ago, Arum swore up and down that Manny agreed to the fight and even went as far as to give Floyd a deadline... now he wants to change the testing.


Hype, What's the latest on this? Has anybody from Team Mayweather commented on Arum's "change of heart"?


he'll make it before they retire. i don't doubt that. that's just a long fucking time to make a fight in my opinion and it really is ridiculous. i was thinking it might be next year but i really doubt it now, i think the fight happens 2 years from now and Arum runs Pac through everyone.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 12 2011, 09:28 AM) *
i don't really see who else they would have used other than the USADA. i think it's kind of weird that Arum would want the Filipino agency testing Pac when dude spends at least a month training in America for his fights.


I know I was more curious as to if the testing agency was named or if it was purely OSDT. I would assume that if a formal contract had been tendered that the organization would have been named in said contract.

It is curiosity from my end rather than allocating blame. If the agency was not named then shame on the parties who drew up the contract as that is a pretty esential & basic item considering how important it is to both parties.

QUOTE (Sicko @ Jul 12 2011, 10:12 AM) *
it is not hard to influence fans who only been watching boxing since the RISE OF PACQUIAO'S FAME nea.gif


Same can be said about fans who has only been watching since Floyd's fame started.

It is easy to look like a Ferrari when you are racing a Datsun & both guys have raced plenty of Datto's the last few years.
Lil-lightsout
Totally off topic... but who cares this all all BS anyways.

I know it's old news, but every time I hear that "Lighters" song and that line dissing Manny it just cracks me up.
gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 08:35 PM) *
I know I was more curious as to if the testing agency was named or if it was purely OSDT. I would assume that if a formal contract had been tendered that the organization would have been named in said contract.

It is curiosity from my end rather than allocating blame. If the agency was not named then shame on the parties who drew up the contract as that is a pretty esential & basic item considering how important it is to both parties.



Same can be said about fans who has only been watching since Floyd's fame started.

It is easy to look like a Ferrari when you are racing a Datsun & both guys have raced plenty of Datto's the last few years.


i don't know actually, i think Hype would be the better person to ask. the USADA is probably one of the best if not the best anti-doping agencies out there and since it's based in America it makes a lot of since for it to be used. i think other agencies could be used but it wouldn't make much sense, why bring in a European agency when it's pretty much the same shit? now some could call me biased but i don't see the Filipino agency as being as neutral as the USADA. i'm not saying Pac is dirty but if he did get caught there would be a lot of pressure on someone working for the PSC not to release that info and i think it would be perfectly understandable, Pac is on a different level than most athletes will ever know of over there and it would be a big let down to know he wasn't clean.

i say if Arum really wants it to be fair and square he uses some European agency.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 12 2011, 11:16 AM) *
now some could call me biased but i don't see the Filipino agency as being as neutral as the USADA.


Yeah you are biased as all hell cool.gif

QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 12 2011, 11:16 AM) *
i say if Arum really wants it to be fair and square he uses some European agency.


That would be the ideal IMO. That way there could be no accusations of nationalistic bias. It would make sense to use a US based organization if the fight is in the USA though.

That said what if Manny said we fight but only at Cowboys Stadium to maximise ticket sales? Would Floyd agree to that? If this is the biggest boxing event then it should be in the biggest possible stadium surely not in a small Vegas chop house that seats 20,000.
thehype
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 11 2011, 06:19 PM) *
It's just annoying that the same topic keeps getting posted and re-posted by the Floyd/Pac "super-fans" when there obviously is no change in the situation, and the fight is no closer to ever happening.

But, explanations shouldn't take multiple threads to sort out...

"Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

The hoops that the fans are being asked to jump through to believe that Bob Arum is the sole person preventing this fight from happening, are more plentiful than the hoops that indicate simply...neither side wants to make the fight. So if it's true that Bob is the guy that pulls Manny's strings that would implicate him...and if it's true that Floyd is his "own boss"...well, I think you can understand why the boxing fans...not the Floyd Mayweather fans...but BOXING fans, blame him for it as well.

In the end, Bob's legacy as a promoter will not be affected by it...and Manny has Bob to thank for saving his own legacy...so guess which guy gets to feel the brunt of it...



I don't know why it's annoying...I mean, it's not like you have to read it (although, for some reason, you can't resist).

And explanations don't take multiple threads to sort out...the problem, instead, is that multiple excuses are being put out there by Bob Arum, therefore making fans confused. Fear of needles, fear of giving blood close to a fight, fear of USADA, mysterious $65 million contracts, allegations of requesting $100 million, deadlines....that's all stuff that's being put out there by ONE SIDE. Meanwhile, the other side continues to say, just take the tests. Truth be told, it seems to me like the ONLY REASON why there are multiple threads discussing multiple different topics regarding the non-fight is because of Bob Arum...not the other way around.

Who the blame is irrelevant to me as you can rarely change someone's opinion anyway. The only thing I'm interested in is putting out the correct information. In the end, nobody's legacy is going to feel the brunt of anything. Lennox Lewis didn't take a hit because he didn't fight Riddick Bowe and vice versa. If the fight doesn't happen, it will simply be one of many other fights that never happened between two great fighters...simple as that. They will forever be linked to each other and there will forever be debates about who was better, but in the end, it's not going to make one bit of difference.

On a side note, again, if you're so tired of all the threads and talking about a fight that's no closer to ever happening, then may I suggest some self-restraint and quit visiting those threads and discussing the fight.

Seems like an easy enough solution, no?

dntknw.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 11 2011, 06:26 PM) *
Spot on.


Spot way off.

laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 07:17 PM) *
I am curious was the USDA named as the testing organization or was it just Olympic style drug testing that was stipulated in the "contract"? If it was just OSDT then I can see why there could be a problem but if the USDA was named & now the goalposts have moved again then that is ridiculous. If it was not named & it was just listed as random OSDT then what Arum is asking seems fair enough.

Either way this fight will be a big letdown for boxing fans as both guys are not getting any younger.


Yes, USADA.

WADA doesn't even do testing...they use national organizations, like USADA, to do the testing for them.
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 07:36 PM) *
Hype, What's the latest on this? Has anybody from Team Mayweather commented on Arum's "change of heart"?


The focus, right now, is Victor Ortiz.

laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 11 2011, 09:16 PM) *
i don't know actually, i think Hype would be the better person to ask. the USADA is probably one of the best if not the best anti-doping agencies out there and since it's based in America it makes a lot of since for it to be used. i think other agencies could be used but it wouldn't make much sense, why bring in a European agency when it's pretty much the same shit? now some could call me biased but i don't see the Filipino agency as being as neutral as the USADA. i'm not saying Pac is dirty but if he did get caught there would be a lot of pressure on someone working for the PSC not to release that info and i think it would be perfectly understandable, Pac is on a different level than most athletes will ever know of over there and it would be a big let down to know he wasn't clean.

i say if Arum really wants it to be fair and square he uses some European agency.


While he's at it, why not bring in a European commission and maybe some European judges and refs as well.

dntknw.gif

On another note, here's what else USADA had to say about their testing and how it relates to WADA (it's got a little bit more info than the other link):

USADA: "WADA DOES NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO ACTUALLY CONDUCT TESTING"

"WADA does not have the infrastructure to actually conduct testing themselves. They don't have what we call 'Doping Control Officers' that specifically work for them to go out and perform the tests as USADA does. Typically what will happen if WADA was ever to decide they wanted to have somebody tested, they would work with the anti-doping organization in whichever country or area that that testing would be conducted by...I think it's really important to understand that WADA certainly oversees, internationally, the programs that happen, but the actual implementation of tests is usually conducted by the Anti-Doping Organizations for that country," stated Annie Skinner, Media Relations Manager of the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), who gave us details on how USADA works on behalf of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) in order to conduct the international anti-doping policies and procedures created by the organization and implemented world-wide by all national anti-doping agencies that adhere to the World Anti-Doping Code. What may come as a surprise to some, WADA does not actually implement their own testing, but instead they utilize the many different anti-doping agencies in each nation to conduct their international standards for testing. Check out what else she had to say regarding USADA's relationship WADA and hot it relates to Bob Arum's recent comments regarding Olympic-style random drug testing.

read more

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content10292.html

STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 12 2011, 01:25 PM) *
Yes, USADA.

WADA doesn't even do testing...they use national organizations, like USADA, to do the testing for them.


Well that clears things up. If USADA was named as the agency to conduct the tests in the original contract then why is Bob wanting it changed now?

Probably to further stir things up.

thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 11:07 PM) *
That would be the ideal IMO. That way there could be no accusations of nationalistic bias. It would make sense to use a US based organization if the fight is in the USA though.


Actually, I can't see how it would be "ideal" for the Philippine Sports Commission (their version of USADA) to handle the testing of Congressman Pacquiao, their most beloved icon.

If you REALLY want to avoid any accusations of nationalistic bias, what would be ideal is to have USADA do the testing for Pacquiao and the Philippine Sports Commission do the testing for Floyd.

QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 11:07 PM) *
That said what if Manny said we fight but only at Cowboys Stadium to maximise ticket sales? Would Floyd agree to that? If this is the biggest boxing event then it should be in the biggest possible stadium surely not in a small Vegas chop house that seats 20,000.


If you're either fighter, it shouldn't be in "the biggest possible stadium"....it should be at the venue that provides "the biggest possible site fee".

laugh.gif

And not for nothing, but I'm not so sure your logic of more seats means more money is actually true. In Vegas, the price of those 20,000 seats in the small Vegas chop house are significantly higher. Just to put it into perspective, if memory serves me correctly, Pacquiao's two fights COMBINED did roughly $13 million in gate sales....compare that to the $11 million in gate sales that Mayweather-Mosley did or the $8 million in gate sales that Padquiao-Mosley did. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't generate more revenue, but still, I think the chances of this fight happening anyplace else but Vegas are pretty slim...especially since even Manny Pacquiao prefers to fight there. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 11:44 PM) *
Well that clears things up. If USADA was named as the agency to conduct the tests in the original contract then why is Bob wanting it changed now?


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's what I keep asking everyone, but for some reason, nobody cares to touch that question.

laugh.gif
gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 11:07 PM) *
Yeah you are biased as all hell cool.gif



That would be the ideal IMO. That way there could be no accusations of nationalistic bias. It would make sense to use a US based organization if the fight is in the USA though.

That said what if Manny said we fight but only at Cowboys Stadium to maximise ticket sales? Would Floyd agree to that? If this is the biggest boxing event then it should be in the biggest possible stadium surely not in a small Vegas chop house that seats 20,000.


i don't see how there could be nationalistic bias, the USADA isn't going to give a fuck about Mayweather. he's not exactly going off and competing for America, his amateur career is over and he's ineligible. i've a real hard time seeing any bias due to that. that and saying the USADA is biased but the PSC is neutral is pretty fucking mind boggling.

i really doubt that, they'll probably go with whoever puts up the most money. those tickets will be gone in like 30 seconds if it's Vegas.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 12 2011, 01:31 PM) *
While he's at it, why not bring in a European commission and maybe some European judges and refs as well.


From my understanding (I may well be wrong of course) world title fights should have one judge from each fighters country & a neutral judge unless both fighters are from the same country?

I know the WBC demands officials from neutral cities, states & nations for their title fights under Rule 1 subsection 16 as below

WBC rules & regulations

Due to a fight of this magnitude all officials should be from neutral countries to ensure no bias.
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 11 2011, 11:54 PM) *
From my understanding (I may well be wrong of course) world title fights should have one judge from each fighters country & a neutral judge unless both fighters are from the same country?

I know the WBC demands officials from neutral cities, states & nations for their title fights under Rule 1 subsection 16 as below

WBC rules & regulations

Due to a fight of this magnitude all officials should be from neutral countries to ensure no bias.


laugh.gif

Perhaps you should remind that to Bob Arum.

Pacquiao vs. Mosley judges: Duane Ford, Dave Moretti, Glenn Trowbridge
Pacquiao vs. Cotto judges: Adalaide Byrd, Duane Ford, Dave Moretti
Pacquao vs. Marquez II judges: Duane Ford, Jerry Roth, Tom Miller

I may be well wrong too, but I don't think Duane Ford (damn, he gets a lot of Pacquiao assignments), Dave Moretti, Glenn Trowbridge, Adalaide Byrd, Jerry Roth or Tom Miller are from the Philippines, Mexico, or Puerto Rico.

laugh.gif
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 12 2011, 01:45 PM) *
Actually, I can't see how it would be "ideal" for the Philippine Sports Commission (their version of USADA) to handle the testing of Congressman Pacquiao, their most beloved icon.

If you REALLY want to avoid any accusations of nationalistic bias, what would be ideal is to have USADA do the testing for Pacquiao and the Philippine Sports Commission do the testing for Floyd.


I was referring to a neutral agency doing the testing which is what I believe Bob wanted? Things may have changed on this as I certainly do not read every article about evry fart, burp & hiccup regarding this fight.

In all seriousness the PDC would probably doctor Floyds samples to bring him down. The only way would be to have a neutral org like a European one conduct the testing & that ain;t gonna happen.


QUOTE (thehype @ Jul 12 2011, 01:45 PM) *
If you're either fighter, it shouldn't be in "the biggest possible stadium"....it should be at the venue that provides "the biggest possible site fee".

laugh.gif

And not for nothing, but I'm not so sure your logic of more seats means more money is actually true. In Vegas, the price of those 20,000 seats in the small Vegas chop house are significantly higher. Just to put it into perspective, if memory serves me correctly, Pacquiao's two fights COMBINED did roughly $13 million in gate sales....compare that to the $11 million in gate sales that Mayweather-Mosley did or the $8 million in gate sales that Padquiao-Mosley did. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't generate more revenue, but still, I think the chances of this fight happening anyplace else but Vegas are pretty slim...especially since even Manny Pacquiao prefers to fight there. LOL.


Fair point. I also think that a fight of this magnituide will sell a lot of tickets at significantly higher prices than the four fights you listed & in far higher numbers. Real boxing fans knew both Cowboys stadium fights were non fights & stayed away. This is anything but a non fight (provided it actually comes off that is) & I would expect them to sell out the stadium. Would the site fees & gate be bigger in Vegas for this fight?

Assuming in both fighters contracts they get a % of gate recepts I would expect there to be a higher net return to the fighters.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 12 2011, 01:47 PM) *
i don't see how there could be nationalistic bias, the USADA isn't going to give a fuck about Mayweather. he's not exactly going off and competing for America, his amateur career is over and he's ineligible. i've a real hard time seeing any bias due to that. that and saying the USADA is biased but the PSC is neutral is pretty fucking mind boggling.



Maybe maybe not? The only way to ensure some level of fairness is to have a non American non Pinoy org conduct the testing & lets face it a fight of this magnitude will generate enough to cover any costs 1000 times over.
gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 12 2011, 12:09 AM) *
Maybe maybe not? The only way to ensure some level of fairness is to have a non American non Pinoy org conduct the testing & lets face it a fight of this magnitude will generate enough to cover any costs 1000 times over.


but why would the USADA cheat or cover for either of them? unless they bribe an officer i really don't see anything happening. neither of them compete for America and neither of them every will as boxers. all they can really do is collect and test samples anyway. the only possible bias Arum could try to point out is the USADA trying to give light sentences to athletes but that wont be the case with this fight since they don't dictate suspensions. and then there's the fact that the athletes still got caught.



STEVENSKI
I'm just playing devils advocate here. I really don't care & would just prefer to see the fight signed sealed & delivered. That won't happen & the sport will be poorer for it.

It reminds me of a couple of kids in the schoolyard shaping up but deep sown they don't want to fight so they put up as many excuses as they can.

Screw em all
gravytrain
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 12 2011, 12:42 AM) *
I'm just playing devils advocate here. I really don't care & would just prefer to see the fight signed sealed & delivered. That won't happen & the sport will be poorer for it.

It reminds me of a couple of kids in the schoolyard shaping up but deep sown they don't want to fight so they put up as many excuses as they can.

Screw em all


i think Pac and Mayweather don't really care. Mayweathers wants the testing but i don't think he's scared of Pac or anything. Pac has even been on record saying he doesn't give a fuck about the testing, he just doesn't want it the day before the fight. i think what it comes down to is Pac being a pretty trusting dude and letting Koncz and Arum milk him for what he's worth. i've been thinking about it recently and Arum has made out so nice off of this shit it's too good to be true. Pac has made him so much money, did so much for TR and even made fighters switch promoters just to fight him. where would Arum be without him in this position or without him period? trying to peddle JCC Jr to the fans isn't going to pay like Pac.

i think he holds off on this fight for a minimum of another year, probably 2.
Snoop
Welp. Looks like Hype killed it with that front page interview with the USADA.
STEVENSKI
It cleared up my questions on the subject.

So in theory if Pac was to train in the Phillippines he would be tested by the Pinoy authorities & when he lands in the US he would be tested by the US authorities. Sounds fair to me.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 12 2011, 12:03 AM) *
i think Pac and Mayweather don't really care.


Agreed. Clearly both guys have an avenue to making this happen. All Floyd needs do is agree to the current testing procedures and we have a fight. That is not unreasonable. Or Pac could submit to random testing and we have a fight. Personally I have a tougher time with submitting to tests that are not asked for anywhere else but at the same time I can see that from Mayweather's point of view this too is not an unreasonable request.

Let's face it neither guy wants the fight. Yet. And all this debate is just smoke and mirrors. And the casual fan, the one's that will buy the fight and send it into the record books don't give a shit either. It's only us hardcore nutters who are tearing our hair out laugh.gif
Hops
People just get it all wrong sometimes.

Both Floyd and Pacquiao want the fight. One just want psychological advantages over the other one before stepping in the ring.

And it would be stupid to let Pacquiao be tested by Pinoy authorities. What if Roach decided to train in the Philippines for 1 and 1/4 months and bribe the authorities there so that Packy can juice. So, I'm accusing Pinoys of corruption. Just accept it.

Or how about, Roach training Pac in the Philippines and then calling up Floyd personally and telling him, "Hey, Floydie, I got one over you. We're juicing up Packy to kill you at fight night."
Hops
And again, Conte is laughing his ass out about the statement by USADA.

http://www.examiner.com/filipino-sports-in...da-s-statements

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Hops @ Jul 12 2011, 05:45 AM) *
And again, Conte is laughing his ass out about the statement by USADA.

http://www.examiner.com/filipino-sports-in...da-s-statements


Haha Victor keepin it real. He does raise some interesting points though. Articles like this to me highlight the fact that I don't think testing is the reason they aren't fighting. It's a bit like Chris Rock once said, "a man is as faithful as his options" and while these 2 guys have options they won't be fighting each other.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Hops @ Jul 12 2011, 07:42 PM) *
And it would be stupid to let Pacquiao be tested by Pinoy authorities.


Why? If it is within the WADA & USDA rules & regulations then it will be fine. Floyd only wants OSDT so what country it is administered in is not relevant in the slightest.

QUOTE (Hops @ Jul 12 2011, 07:42 PM) *
What if Roach decided to train in the Philippines for 1 and 1/4 months and bribe the authorities there so that Packy can juice. So, I'm accusing Pinoys of corruption. Just accept it.


That is fine & would be well within the confines of what the regulations state (bar the bribing to allow Pac to juice of course).

You can accuse the Pinoys of corruption all you like but America has a far more storied history of bribery & corruption in the history of boxing.
Hops
Okay, but will Floyd allow it? I, if I'm Floyd, will not allow Packy to be tested by Pinoys in the Philippines. This brings some more complications since Pacquiao was even arguing with Roach how he wanted to train in the Philippines for the first month. This was even before the drug testing issues surfaced. He now trains for 1 month in the Philippines since he's a congressman and he is still constantly lambasted for being absent during congress sessions.

By telling Packy to undergo OSDT (even not by USADA), he is actually forcing him to train 2 months in the USA. I am 101% sure it will not sit well with Packy. And I'm 102% sure that Floyd won't allow Packy to be tested by Pinoys in the Philippines.
Snoop
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 12 2011, 11:18 AM) *
You can accuse the Pinoys of corruption all you like but America has a far more storied history of bribery & corruption in the history of boxing.

Mmmm...that's debatable. I think that notion is a result of more accessibility to historical stories of bribery in the US rather than there actually being more. Unless of course you can provide sources for this claim?
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jul 12 2011, 05:39 AM) *
Mmmm...that's debatable. I think that notion is a result of more accessibility to historical stories of bribery in the US rather than there actually being more. Unless of course you can provide sources for this claim?


In all fairness he did say 'more storied' which basically is what you suggest.
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 12 2011, 06:18 AM) *
America has a far more storied history of bribery & corruption in the history of boxing.


Namely Bob Arum.

laugh.gif
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