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caneman
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 10 2011, 05:21 PM) *
I have been on 4 different boards and nobody thought PWill won the fight. Only 2 or 3 guys thought it was remotely close. This was the worst verdict I have ever seen. This was worst than the Casey Anthony verdict.



It was really bad but as a scorecard goes, was Jermain Taylor vs Cory Spinks 117-111 Taylor on one card 115-113 on another and 111-117 the other way? That's 18 rounds difference in a 12 round fight!
Jack 1000
Holy Shit!

The worst decision since Casey Anthony's acquittal in her murder trail! This was scandalous here. I did actually have it closer than HBO because I knew that Williams was gonna get the benefit of the doubt on close rounds 4-4 after 8. But there is no way in hell you could give Williams ANY rounds after round 8. Lara took 9-12 very big and convincingly for a 116-112 Lara score, and THAT is the kindest you can be to Paul in this fight. Punisher got punished badly from 9-12. Very inexperienced judges were also used like Harold said. And New Jersey has some good judges. Well, actually, Al Bennett has a good track record so I can't explain why he would not give Laura the fight.

They went for Delahoya's fighter in Williams all the way down the line. Relative no-names and journeymen always seem to never get justice on these decisions.

Jack
JLUVBABY
lara needs to make a statement in his next bout... he needs to sign fora major fight IF he can land one... Who would you guys like to see him scrap with? i think a vanes fight would be nice if he cant land a title shot (probably wont happen but id like to see that)...
D-MARV
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 10 2011, 11:30 AM) *
The FACTS are....I've got 1 ref, and 3 judges that must have seen the same fight I did.

And I say that with ZERO care for the fact that 99% of the posters on this board disagree....I've been a boxing fan for many, many years and I did not see this one-sided..."oh please stop before he gets killed"....massacre you all saw.

LOL... Ok brotha!

I'm anxious to see what 6 rounds you gave PWill?
BGv2.0
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 08:28 AM) *
LOL... Ok brotha!

I'm anxious to see what 6 rounds you gave PWill?


I cannot recall specifics because when I was watching it, I never thought it would be this huge deal everybody see's it as, I know I gave Paul Williams about 4 of the early to mid rounds and for sure the 12th....there was probaly a swing round in there that I gave him toward the late/middle.

As I said I scored it 114-114. So the draw was what I thought was a spot on call.
D-MARV
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 11 2011, 11:20 AM) *
I cannot recall specifics because when I was watching it, I never thought it would be this huge deal everybody see's it as, I know I gave Paul Williams about 4 of the early to mid rounds and for sure the 12th....there was probaly a swing round in there that I gave him toward the late/middle.

As I said I scored it 114-114. So the draw was what I thought was a spot on call.

OK...

It's a big deal because Lara is one of the rising stars in this sport and this was biggest robbery I have ever seen... And I'm the biggest PWill fan on this board!

Whatever thoguh... Im over it now... I think that all the fans (except you) and the media has pretty much accepted it as a robbery and that Lara is the better man.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 10:29 AM) *
OK...

It's a big deal because Lara is one of the rising stars in this sport and this was biggest robbery I have ever seen... And I'm the biggest PWill fan on this board!

Whatever thoguh... Im over it now... I think that all the fans (except you) and the media has pretty much accepted it as a robbery and that Lara is the better man.



I'm not a fan of Paul Williams....Lara...or the entire division to be honest. So it's not as if I have some bias or dislike for either of the guys. Like I said, there is no doubt I am in the microscopic minority on this fight.

But I do find it interesting though, it makes you want to analyze yourself as a fan and to try and pick what you look for in fights.

I also had no problem with the first Holy-Lewis Draw either. For MANY years I kept my scorecard for that fight for whenever the topic would come up, I've since tossed it as it's ancient history, just as this fight will be.

I know Jack has said he had the fight even goping to the 9th round....but then said there is NO WAY you could give Williams anything after 8.....and for me...you would have to be totally blind to NOT have given Williams the 12th.

But...that's just the way it is...it is so objective. In most respects that's one of the things that makes the sport so great....I mean on the whole it is very rare that we have a call that fans see as a bad one...to THIS degree.

For me the bottom line is that I do agree with the majority that Paul Williams should NOT have won the fight...so in that regard my call does fall in line with most...but I just don't agree that the lead for Lara was as great as most seem to think....which is why the swing call the other way does not seem to bother me the way it does the majority.



mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 11 2011, 08:55 AM) *
I'm not a fan of Paul Williams....Lara...or the entire division to be honest. So it's not as if I have some bias or dislike for either of the guys. Like I said, there is no doubt I am in the microscopic minority on this fight.

But I do find it interesting though, it makes you want to analyze yourself as a fan and to try and pick what you look for in fights.

I also had no problem with the first Holy-Lewis Draw either. For MANY years I kept my scorecard for that fight for whenever the topic would come up, I've since tossed it as it's ancient history, just as this fight will be.

I know Jack has said he had the fight even goping to the 9th round....but then said there is NO WAY you could give Williams anything after 8.....and for me...you would have to be totally blind to NOT have given Williams the 12th.

But...that's just the way it is...it is so objective. In most respects that's one of the things that makes the sport so great....I mean on the whole it is very rare that we have a call that fans see as a bad one...to THIS degree.

For me the bottom line is that I do agree with the majority that Paul Williams should NOT have won the fight...so in that regard my call does fall in line with most...but I just don't agree that the lead for Lara was as great as most seem to think....which is why the swing call the other way does not seem to bother me the way it does the majority.

I don't know what's worse, beating a bitch senseless or having to go to bed everynight trying to convince urself that Lara should not have won that fight...

who am i kidding? theres nthing wrong with beating a bitch.

Imperius3
9-3 Lara

I thought Lara won clearly, but was not surprised when the decision was announced. When you have a fighter coming forward throwing 1000+ punches during a fight, he gives himself a good chance of edging a decision. Of course, to me that doesn't mean shit if the other fighter is outlanding you and landing the better shots. But I also think television viewers have a better view than the judges. We have multiple HD camera angles after all, whereas a 60 year old judge only has one view ringside. That's the only way I can make sense of this decision.
Jack 1000
Do you think that maybe the judges were also influenced by the damage done to Lara's forehead in giving rounds to Williams, even though it was clearly a head-butt that caused the swelling? I know that the ref informs the judges of cuts from head-butts, but what about for other head injuries in this case?

Even if they were, Williams' face and body language at the end of the fight were more damaging than Lara's swollen face.

Jack
Fitz
Finally watched the fight, and I had it 8-4 for Lara, though there were at least 2-3 rounds that I think were pretty close earlier in the fight, and one of them I gave Lara and the other possibly Williams. At best case scenario, I could see a draw for Williams, but I thought the fight was going to be a lot wider. It was more competitive than I was expecting, but still a fight Lara should have won.

DMarv.......I literally can't believe you thought that fight should have been stopped, lol. That comment worse than the judges scorecard, there was absolutely no point in that fight that it could have been stopped, Williams was never seriously hurt either, was punching back. I will even go a step further and say that Williams didn't even take a beating. He got tagged with that left all night that he always gets tagged with, but he took no severe beating. Not sure how you came to the idea that the fight should have been stopped. At what point did you think the stoppage should have come?

Jack 1000
Here's a copy of the Master Scoresheet from FightNews:

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/williams-lara-update-89500

Jack
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 11 2011, 04:31 PM) *
Finally watched the fight, and I had it 8-4 for Lara, though there were at least 2-3 rounds that I think were pretty close earlier in the fight, and one of them I gave Lara and the other possibly Williams. At best case scenario, I could see a draw for Williams, but I thought the fight was going to be a lot wider. It was more competitive than I was expecting, but still a fight Lara should have won.

DMarv.......I literally can't believe you thought that fight should have been stopped, lol. That comment worse than the judges scorecard, there was absolutely no point in that fight that it could have been stopped, Williams was never seriously hurt either, was punching back. I will even go a step further and say that Williams didn't even take a beating. He got tagged with that left all night that he always gets tagged with, but he took no severe beating. Not sure how you came to the idea that the fight should have been stopped. At what point did you think the stoppage should have come?



Finally somebody saw the same fight I did.

Stopping that fight never seemed as if it should have been the case.

D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 11 2011, 05:31 PM) *
Finally watched the fight, and I had it 8-4 for Lara, though there were at least 2-3 rounds that I think were pretty close earlier in the fight, and one of them I gave Lara and the other possibly Williams. At best case scenario, I could see a draw for Williams, but I thought the fight was going to be a lot wider. It was more competitive than I was expecting, but still a fight Lara should have won.

DMarv.......I literally can't believe you thought that fight should have been stopped, lol. That comment worse than the judges scorecard, there was absolutely no point in that fight that it could have been stopped, Williams was never seriously hurt either, was punching back. I will even go a step further and say that Williams didn't even take a beating. He got tagged with that left all night that he always gets tagged with, but he took no severe beating. Not sure how you came to the idea that the fight should have been stopped. At what point did you think the stoppage should have come?

I actually watched the fight a third time today, this time with no sound!

I have to admit that I was wrong... PWill wasn't in the danger I thought he was in. I think the commentators definitely influenced my perception of the fight. However, I do think PWill took a beating... not a Pacquiao-Margarito beating but still a pretty good beating. Scored the fight again and came up with 116-112 for Lara. Lara just couldn't miss with that left hand. If PWill fights Martinez again he'll go to sleep in the first round!
gravytrain
it depends on how you look at it really. on one hand Williams kept eating lefts and wasn't going to win, ending it early then getting him an easier fight could have been a better idea for someone coming back after a long layoff when he got stretched. on the other hand he took the shots pretty well and losing by stoppage would have been pretty bad for him. it wouldn't be a fight you stopped because they're getting busted up, just because they're far behind and taking a lot of shots.

Williams is lucky it didn't get stopped lol
D-MARV
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jul 11 2011, 06:14 PM) *
it depends on how you look at it really. on one hand Williams kept eating lefts and wasn't going to win, ending it early then getting him an easier fight could have been a better idea for someone coming back after a long layoff when he got stretched. on the other hand he took the shots pretty well and losing by stoppage would have been pretty bad for him. it wouldn't be a fight you stopped because they're getting busted up, just because they're far behind and taking a lot of shots.

Williams is lucky it didn't get stopped lol

That was my feeling... It was a dangerous fight for PWill... Lara didn't hit hard enough to knock him out but he did hit him hard enough to inflict damage.
Fitz
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 12 2011, 08:05 AM) *
I actually watched the fight a third time today, this time with no sound!

I have to admit that I was wrong... PWill wasn't in the danger I thought he was in. I think the commentators definitely influenced my perception of the fight. However, I do think PWill took a beating... not a Pacquiao-Margarito beating but still a pretty good beating. Scored the fight again and came up with 116-112 for Lara. Lara just couldn't miss with that left hand. If PWill fights Martinez again he'll go to sleep in the first round!


Cool cool. I understand about watching a fight live, it's easier to get caught up in the emotion, happens to me as when watching a fight live. But I watched it a day later, so I suppose I watched it under different circumstances.
But I agree, he was getting tagged with that left at will, and a couple of times, got Williams to back up and made his legs jolt momentarily. Though never thought he was in danger.
Fitz
The only way the fight could have been stopped is by his corner. If they felt he was eating too many shots and didn't look like winning the fight. But I think it could only have been up to the corner.
A referee or doctor had no grounds to stop the fight IMO.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 11 2011, 06:19 PM) *
The only way the fight could have been stopped is by his corner. If they felt he was eating too many shots and didn't look like winning the fight. But I think it could only have been up to the corner.
A referee or doctor had no grounds to stop the fight IMO.


yeah, i was only thinking of it as a corner stoppage. i don't know if i would have if i was his corner because finishing would have looked better than getting stopped.
Imperius3
I never thought the fight should have been stopped either. I believe that's a clear example of how the commentators can affect someones perception of the fight.

Fitz, did you watch the HBO broadcast of the fight, or something else with different commentators?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 06:05 PM) *
I actually watched the fight a third time today, this time with no sound!

I have to admit that I was wrong... PWill wasn't in the danger I thought he was in. I think the commentators definitely influenced my perception of the fight. However, I do think PWill took a beating... not a Pacquiao-Margarito beating but still a pretty good beating. Scored the fight again and came up with 116-112 for Lara. Lara just couldn't miss with that left hand. If PWill fights Martinez again he'll go to sleep in the first round!


Whoaaaaaa!!!


Where is my damn apology for jumping down my throat when I said the fight should not have been stopped? I also remember stating about how viewers get influenced listening to the commentators. It's fine we disagree, but damn you get so nasty when you do not agree and you hurt my feelings. And now I will wait for a sincere apology so I can move on.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jul 11 2011, 08:59 PM) *
Whoaaaaaa!!!


Where is my damn apology for jumping down my throat when I said the fight should not have been stopped? I also remember stating about how viewers get influenced listening to the commentators. It's fine we disagree, but damn you get so nasty when you do not agree and you hurt my feelings. And now I will wait for a sincere apology so I can move on.

LOL... I didn't jump down your throat. I didn't even curse at you, LOL. I thought i responded in a respectable manner... I just didn't agree with you. Don't get me wrong, PWill got his ass beat. Lara handed out a beating... Just wasn't as bad as I initially thought.
caneman
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jul 11 2011, 04:55 PM) *
Here's a copy of the Master Scoresheet from FightNews:

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/williams-lara-update-89500

Jack



no wonder those score cards were so crazy, look @ some of those rounds the 2 judges gave Williams. I still can't give Williams 4 rounds after 3 times watching the fight but there were a few close rounds so can't knock 116-112 to bad! Anything more than that is insane though IMO!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 11 2011, 09:12 PM) *
LOL... I didn't jump down your throat. I didn't even curse at you, LOL. I thought i responded in a respectable manner... I just didn't agree with you. Don't get me wrong, PWill got his ass beat. Lara handed out a beating... Just wasn't as bad as I initially thought.


I was just kidding with you. You DID curse at BGv2.0 though. laugh.gif
Fitz
QUOTE (Imperius3 @ Jul 12 2011, 10:36 AM) *
I never thought the fight should have been stopped either. I believe that's a clear example of how the commentators can affect someones perception of the fight.

Fitz, did you watch the HBO broadcast of the fight, or something else with different commentators?


Haha, I actually watched the HBO broadcast, with RJJ on the mic. I remember giving Williams 3 and 4, and after that there were 2 other rounds I gave him. I think one may have been the 12th.
Can't remember the other one, but there was at least 1-2 rounds I gave to Lara that I also felt were kind of close, so about 5-6 rounds I could possibly have seen for Williams, but personally, I only gave him 4 of them.
ViperSniper
Watched the fight.

Wasn't as drastic as I was expecting as I saw many close rounds, but overall thought it was a bad call that Lara should have taken. I scored the fight 8-3-1 to Lara with 3 rounds I was really not to sure about (I think the 5th was even for me), going into the 7th I had Williams by a point. Williams fought very well on the inside, while tied up and did enough inclose to take those rounds. Best case scenario for Williams was a Draw as he took the 12th round for me.

I can see how it was a close fight for very few as Ledderman (and others here) gave some rounds to Williams that I did not and vice verser. Overall I do think it Lara did enough to get the decision.

I disagree that this fight should have been stopped in any way and don't consider this to be a beating. Williams was getting tagged all night long flush and Lara dominated parts of the fight due to that but Williams was in no real danger and was fighting back.

I was impressed with Lara's movement and countering and look forward to seeing him against other top fighters.

Positive note for Williams is his chin doesn't seem to be cracked. He doesn't appear to be mentally effected by the Martinez KO as he approach is the same and took many flush shots well all night. By saying that, he doesn't need to be taken those shots and if he does..it's only a matter of time again..
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