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Full Version: Paul Williams REALLY DID win the fight
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pacco_diablo
Compubox was way off and very inaccurate... The commentators got caught up in the occasional left that landed and just ran with the theme because of the Martinez fight... All were so busy trying to agree with each other...

After watching the fight again, it really wasnt a bad decision. What most people missed was all the inside work that Paul did. He landed a ton of uppercuts and body shots that went completely unnoticed. Paul walked right through most of Laras big left hands and to me were not as affective as what they saw ringside. Lara did a lot of running and holding, and despite his holding was beat on the inside all night long. This was far from a bad decision and everyone being caught up in the hype is why it appeared to be.

Holyfield vs Lewis was a bad decision. Not this fight. I'd invite those who disagree to watch the fight again.
Method
caneman
QUOTE (Method @ Jul 11 2011, 12:44 PM) *



I bet he landed that punch @ close 70% I would think!
HaydelHammer
paul lost man...we all know compubox is not 100% but it's a good reference to use. I judge my fights by "feel" a large majority of the time and it "felt" like paul lost after watching him perform. I completely ignore the announcers (especially lampley) and paul just looked "off" big time..no rhythm in his shots at all.

Almost reminded me of when he first fought quintana. Carlos was catching him with the same shit and dropped him rd 1. The was off then also imo. If he was on he would has simply worked the other guy into fatigue as RJJ pointed out, but he seemed out of it.

he'd get flattened out the first exchange with sergio imo
PColeman28
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Jul 11 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Paul walked right through most of Laras big left hands and to me were not as affective as what they saw ringside.



Any work that paul did on the inside wasn't effecting lara at all, not one bit..even when williams would land a job it wouldn't effect lara....if you count patty cake taps to the face and body, then you're right williams won...but those shots had 0 power, and he barely landed any flush punches. Lara controlled the ring/ fight and landed the left hand at will, and stumbled williams a few times with it. Lara dominated the fight williams didn't have any answers. Williams really did Lose....I believe the punch stat was right.
Romulus9
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Jul 11 2011, 12:40 PM) *
Holyfield vs Lewis was a bad decision. Not this fight. I'd invite those who disagree to watch the fight again.



I just watched the fight again.

Williams got his ass kicked just as bad as he did the first time.
Hotsauce
p will looking flabby and sick
Imperius3
While I think the judges gave Paul too much credit for throwing a high number of slaps, I will watch the fight again. Sometimes I do score fights differently the second time around.
alaganza
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jul 11 2011, 02:55 PM) *
I just watched the fight again.

Williams got his a** kicked just as bad as he did the first time.


Too funny!!! haha.gif
BoxingFan86
Even Paul thought he lost. Pay attention to his body language after the fight was over. His body language said it all.
JONdaCON817
Did anyone else hear the shyt RJJ was sayin about PWill during the fight??... talkin bout how his corner needs to throw in the towel, he needs to learn to take less damage, he should be done with, etc...

im sitting here like "When you finna take your own advice?"... that shyts starting to get on my nervous.
Fitz
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Jul 12 2011, 02:40 AM) *
What most people missed was all the inside work that Paul did. He landed a ton of uppercuts and body shots that went completely unnoticed. Paul walked right through most of Laras big left hands and to me were not as affective as what they saw ringside. Lara did a lot of running and holding, and despite his holding was beat on the inside all night long. This was far from a bad decision and everyone being caught up in the hype is why it appeared to be.


Great eye man. This is EXACTLY what I saw. I don't think I will go as far and say that he won. But that shit Paul was doing to the body, and inside work while working in the clinch was going completely unnoticed. My brother saw the same thing as well when watching the fight, about his work on the inside and body. This is why I thought the fight could have been close.
Had it about 8-4 for Lara, but could also have seen a draw as there were a couple of rounds I thought were a bit of a toss up.
Prov0
First off no Way in Hell Paul Won that fight. Who cares if he was inside throwing punches they were not effevtive at all he was just doing to try and score some sort of points cause he was getti.g his ass kicked...
Decisions like this Hurt the sport of Boxing .paul got a ass whoopin got inside and was just slapping Laras arm and shoulder with punches with Nothinf on them.
Spyder
Slaps to the body don't and SHOULDN'T score the same as BOMBS to the head. Lara's punches were FAR MORE effective than Paul's occasional slap to the body.

Clean Punching.
Ring Generalship.
Effective aggression.
Defense.

There is not a single category that you can point to and say..."Yeah, Paul got that."
HazConvictedFelonMane
He won the 'I just got my ass kicked' fight. I do agree thathe did some crazy work on the inside. I never favor the busy fighter over the fighter that landed the cleanest shots.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 11 2011, 07:04 PM) *
Slaps to the body don't and SHOULDN'T score the same as BOMBS to the head. Lara's punches were FAR MORE effective than Paul's occasional slap to the body.

Clean Punching.
Ring Generalship.
Effective aggression.
Defense.

There is not a single category that you can point to and say..."Yeah, Paul got that."

Not ONE!

I'm actually surprised that people thought this could have been a draw. This was as clear as day!
JONdaCON817
yeaa i gave Lara ATLEAST 8 rounds... even to say it was a draw is a bit of a stretch.
Lil-lightsout
Lara definitely won IMO, but I have no problem people having different views on what they saw.

I also hate Lara's style, it is very effective no doubt, but it sucks to watch. Always fucking moving and too much holding. Just like that dirty prick scumbag Casamayor.
Sicko
Williams got his A$$ KICKED!

It is no way around it, Lara out-boxed him, I don't think Williams won more then maybe 4 Rounds out of 12
Prov0
Theres no way this fight was even a Draw. Seriously how can people say that .only cause his name is Paul williams .Ca mon he got his ass kicked.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Jul 11 2011, 05:40 PM) *
Compubox was way off and very inaccurate... The commentators got caught up in the occasional left that landed and just ran with the theme because of the Martinez fight... All were so busy trying to agree with each other...

After watching the fight again, it really wasnt a bad decision. What most people missed was all the inside work that Paul did. He landed a ton of uppercuts and body shots that went completely unnoticed. Paul walked right through most of Laras big left hands and to me were not as affective as what they saw ringside. Lara did a lot of running and holding, and despite his holding was beat on the inside all night long. This was far from a bad decision and everyone being caught up in the hype is why it appeared to be.

Holyfield vs Lewis was a bad decision. Not this fight. I'd invite those who disagree to watch the fight again.


100% agree with the bolded part! It's actually surprising with the height and reach Williams throws out the window, he is pretty effective on the inside. As Roy said during the fight, it's when Williams comes in when he is ineffective and open. But on the inside he manages to use those freakishly long arms to use well in such an in closed area by using the uppercut and awkwardly punching around the guard at times.

There were some close rounds in the fight, however I thought Lara one clear on the cards.
BGv2.0
Man...glad to see I'm not the ONLY one to have at the very least seen it as close. It kind of sucked being the only one there for a sec.

But I was not going to waiver, because I was sure what I had saw.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 12 2011, 06:37 AM) *
Man...glad to see I'm not the ONLY one to have at the very least seen it as close. It kind of sucked being the only one there for a sec.

But I was not going to waiver, because I was sure what I had saw.


Don't worry man, it feels I have been in your situation a couple of times and it's hard to not 2nd guess yourself when theres a massive majority that thinks otherwise. It reminds me of the thread I made months ago about being in the minority of fans that saw a fight totally different. Example me scoring 9-3 Mora over Mosley and 10-2 Kotelnik over Alexander.

I disagree with Williams getting the nod but I however did see many close rounds that could have gone to Williams way which could have made it close.
blackbelt2003
I saw Williams doing a lot of body work...but I don't think much of it landed, and what did was sloppy and weak. He could do a minute of chugging forwards, moving his arms around by Lara's body, and then all that work would be outdone by Lara smashing his face with three straight lefts in a row.


For me, the latter should get the benefit on the cards.




Black



ViperSniper
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Jul 12 2011, 08:38 AM) *
I saw Williams doing a lot of body work...but I don't think much of it landed, and what did was sloppy and weak. He could do a minute of chugging forwards, moving his arms around by Lara's body, and then all that work would be outdone by Lara smashing his face with three straight lefts in a row.


For me, the latter should get the benefit on the cards.




Black


Lara had the more definitive rounds that's for sure..and more of them. But the rounds I gave Williams were close and in those very rounds Lara was not landing as frequent as some of the other rounds where he couldn't miss. Williams was the more busier man landing on the inside to the body and up the middle. Now none of Williams punchers had the same effects of the over-hand lefts Lara was landing, but Williams landed enough shots on the inside to steal those rounds that Lara wasn't as dominate as the others.

I agree as I normally give rounds to the more cleaner, effective shots, but if a fighter can be busy enough and land some of his shots, that can be enough to outweigh some few clean shots scored in the round. It does come down to which exact round (or fight) that we are talking about but of course it's not always going to be the case. I scored it 8-3-1 Lara and with the rounds I didn't give Lara (a lot of very close rounds) was due to him not landing those flush shots frequent enough compared to Williams activity on the inside.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 12 2011, 12:37 AM) *
Man...glad to see I'm not the ONLY one to have at the very least seen it as close. It kind of sucked being the only one there for a sec.

But I was not going to waiver, because I was sure what I had saw.


You're not the only one but you're one of a few. Haha. Lara didn't quite put the beatdown that Roy Jones alluded to but he sure won that fight cleanly and clearly and going away. He was robbed.

Williams needs to find a new career.
Warlord
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jul 11 2011, 03:00 PM) *
p will looking flabby and sick

Don't get too many 2Pac references these days. Good job.
D-MARV
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 12 2011, 05:30 AM) *
You're not the only one but you're one of a few. Haha. Lara didn't quite put the beatdown that Roy Jones alluded to but he sure won that fight cleanly and clearly and going away. He was robbed.

Agreed 100%
NO way this fight was even remotely close.
Bropho
If Williams punches weren't effective, I guess folks are saying Lara's were, so exactly how many times was Williams knocked down or even rocked for that matter? I think you won't need more than one left hand to count the amount of shots that actually effected Williams...
MoneyMay
theres nothing wrong with what roy said about pwill its true..it should be more easier for paul to retire then roy jones...roy jones was the pound for pound best for a while ..you cant compare p will to jones..
BGv2.0
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 12 2011, 04:30 AM) *
You're not the only one but you're one of a few. Haha. Lara didn't quite put the beatdown that Roy Jones alluded to but he sure won that fight cleanly and clearly and going away. He was robbed.

Williams needs to find a new career.



Well...I think as the week wears on and more people se it, it will me more than a few. I don't think anybody thinks Paul won....but there seems to be more in agreement that it was not a beatdown of horrific Mancini/Kim proportions....and that it was a much closer fight than what many thought...and that it was not exactly a "robbery"....

bMaK
QUOTE (Method @ Jul 11 2011, 12:44 PM) *

This.

All that really needed to be said.
PColeman28
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jul 12 2011, 01:02 AM) *
. I scored it 8-3-1 Lara and with the rounds I didn't give Lara (a lot of very close rounds) was due to him not landing those flush shots frequent enough compared to Williams activity on the inside.



I agree with how you scored it....there was a few rounds were lara just wasn't active enough and paul could have stole the rounds by being more active, but overall Lara dominated the fight
neophyte7
LMAO... people on these boards were saying Williams was such a force..."he is a farce" retirement talk was proper...
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 12 2011, 03:42 PM) *
LMAO... people on these boards were saying Williams was such a force..."he is a farce" retirement talk was proper...

I concur.
zucrates
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jul 12 2011, 11:34 AM) *
Well...I think as the week wears on and more people se it, it will me more than a few. I don't think anybody thinks Paul won....but there seems to be more in agreement that it was not a beatdown of horrific Mancini/Kim proportions....and that it was a much closer fight than what many thought...and that it was not exactly a "robbery"....

You know what they say you got to knock the champ out to beat the champ! Even though Paul was not the champ he was a bigger name and Lara should have Finished his ass off then he wouldn't have to worry about the judges. Also I'm reading that people say Lara lost the fight B4 this one but got a Draw! I guess He better start Knocking MFS out and he won't have controversy.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (zucrates @ Jul 12 2011, 05:39 PM) *
You know what they say you got to knock the champ out to beat the champ! Even though Paul was not the champ he was a bigger name and Lara should have Finished his ass off then he wouldn't have to worry about the judges. Also I'm reading that people say Lara lost the fight B4 this one but got a Draw! I guess He better start Knocking MFS out and he won't have controversy.


C'mon you're just pissing around right? Lara only threw one shot all night because that's all he needed to throw. Left hand, step back reload, left hand, step back reload.

He won and won clear and really shouldn't have needed a knockout to prove it. I'll take your above post though as being ironic drinks.gif
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 12 2011, 02:42 PM) *
LMAO... people on these boards were saying Williams was such a force..."he is a farce" retirement talk was proper...


well in all fairness i think its safe to say for a certain period of time williams had a window where he peaked and was a very primed and dangerous fighter.... with lack of skills and all... some fighters have a lot shorter primes than others... look at riddick bowe or guys like fernando vargas and david reid... just to name a few fighters... they had periods of time where they where very solid pro's capable of beating the best in their respected divisions... tough fights win or lose take a lot out of those guys... williams has had a few tough fights and each one slowly chipped away from that prime... that and the weight jumping hurt him as well im very sure... but to say he is a farce i cant agree with that... i doubt we'd be saying this had he stayed at 147 which is his true weight... apparently most of the other fighters aT 147 THOUGHT he was too much a threat at that time he couldnt secure a fight and had to move up in weight to make money... just saying...
Romulus9
Williams is not a farce.

He's a good fighter that has had a good deal of success but had a serious weakness that has been figured out. Martinez provided the blueprint. Lara followed it. Now let's see if Williams and his people do something about it.

If he can work on the things that he obviously needs to fix, I'd say the first Martinez fight isn't the last great fight we see out of Punisher Paul.
Spyder
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jul 12 2011, 09:23 PM) *
Williams is not a farce.

He's a good fighter that has had a good deal of success but had a serious weakness that has been figured out. Martinez provided the blueprint. Lara followed it. Now let's see if Williams and his people do something about it.

If he can work on the things that he obviously needs to fix, I'd say the first Martinez fight isn't the last great fight we see out of Punisher Paul.

Paul Williams was talking retirement before the fight even happened. I don't think he'll be around the boxing ring for much longer.
Fitz
The one thing I disagreed with throughout the fight is when they kept saying that Sergio Martinez laid the blue print. No he didn't. He fought just like he always does, and I have seen Lara fight before, and he fought the same he usually does. Quintana was the same.

Martinez didn't lay any blue print, all three are slick southpaws that are wrong for Williams, and they all fought how they usually do with or without the Martinez fight taking place. That to me isn't the blueprint. They just stylistically match up badly for Williams. No blueprint involved.
streetlion1
Williams got his ass whipped.....end of discussion.
zucrates
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 12 2011, 07:03 PM) *
C'mon you're just pissing around right? Lara only threw one shot all night because that's all he needed to throw. Left hand, step back reload, left hand, step back reload.

He won and won clear and really shouldn't have needed a knockout to prove it. I'll take your above post though as being ironic drinks.gif

Nah Im just saying the lefts Lara threw could have been sounding off when he hit him and looking powerful Idk because we seen one of those lefts take him out. Lara hit him back to back to back with lefts that he didn't see(Paul's reason for the Martinez left). I'm just saying if you don't want to put it in to the judges hands knock whos in front of you out and you won't be talking about I got robbed. Did he follow that left with anything ? Did he ever just go straight aggressive and try to knock him out or did he sit back and hope one of his lefts could match Martinez's Left? IDk for the record I did think Lara won but I look at it like this all would be nothing if he went a little harder. focus.gif
BoxingWizard23
Paul Williams is a waste of his freakish physical gifts end of story. The guy keeps fighting like he's short as hell. If he fought like he suppose to then he would have beaten the likes of Martinez and even Lara. He would have more power behind his punches instead of wining those wide lefts and rights. He needs to fire his trainer and get with Steward ASAP.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 12 2011, 11:39 PM) *
The one thing I disagreed with throughout the fight is when they kept saying that Sergio Martinez laid the blue print. No he didn't. He fought just like he always does, and I have seen Lara fight before, and he fought the same he usually does. Quintana was the same.

Martinez didn't lay any blue print, all three are slick southpaws that are wrong for Williams, and they all fought how they usually do with or without the Martinez fight taking place. That to me isn't the blueprint. They just stylistically match up badly for Williams. No blueprint involved.

You're wrong my friend... Lara certainly took a page out of Martinez' playbook and he even admitted that in the Post Fight. There were times where he looped his left (very similar to the punch that KO'd PWill). Lara rarely used that punch in the past. I've been following Lara for a very long time... and the style he brought last weekend was slightly different then what he normally brings to the table.
D-MARV
Looks like these judges got what they deserved...

This was a massive robbery.



QUOTE
BoxingScene.com has received a copy of a letter dated July 13, 2011, from Aaron Davis, the commissioner of the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board, advising promoters Dan Goossen and Golden Boy Promotions, that all three judges from last Saturday's junior middleweight bout, involving Paul Williams and Erislandy Lara, have been indefinitely suspended.

Citing concerns over their scoring, Davis informed the promoters that his agency placed judges Al Bennett, Hilton Whitaker and Don Givens on suspension and all three will require additional training upon returning to boxing. After what appeared to be a dominating victory for Lara, the three judges scored a majority decision win for Williams, with scores of 116-114 (Givens), 115-114 (Whitaker) and 114-114 (Bennett). HBO had the fight scored 117-111 for Lara, as did BoxingScene.com.

Davis also noted that his agency found no evidence of corruption, but he did admit that his agency "did not provide our best officiating on July 9.



source



caneman
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 13 2011, 06:26 PM) *
Looks like these judges got what they deserved...

This was a massive robbery.






source



That's good news, they in fact did get what they deserve!
D-MARV
QUOTE (caneman @ Jul 13 2011, 07:33 PM) *
That's good news, they in fact did get what they deserve!

Yes it is.



I love PWIll too but RIGHT is RIGHT and WRONG is WRONG. Lara was robbed out of his break out fight. I hope the networks and the media recognize Lara as the real winner.
caneman
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 13 2011, 06:40 PM) *
Yes it is.



I love PWIll too but RIGHT is RIGHT and WRONG is WRONG. Lara was robbed out of his break out fight. I hope the networks and the media recognize Lara as the real winner.



I totally agree, getting that over turned will be very hard but Davis doing that means it might be! Lara should appeal it right away!
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2011, 07:48 PM) *
Ok, if he says he did, I stand corrected. I didn't see the post fight, but to me, Lara looked to have fought the same as he usually does. Counter punching, fighting backwards. very similar to Casamayor.
I also imagine he doesn't fight many southpaws, so I would also think that this punch probably isn't quite the same to pull off against a standard righty. Williams has always had problems with lefties, and that punch seemed to give him problems as well. Which is why I thought this was a bad match up for him even before it happened.
But if Lara says he took a page out of it, then so be it. Who am I to argue.

Though I have always known that Williams is no good with slick southpaws, and this goes back to Quintana, a fight that happened well before Martinez.

What your saying makes sense... But the punch Lara was tagging PWill with was very similar to the punches Martinez tagged him with. HE even had the timing down.
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