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wolterb
It seems to be the general consensus that the only way to defeat Floyd is through constant pressure. We've heard this from sports commentators throughout the years...and it is echoed on many boxing forums.

My question is why does this theory still a reputable claim that is made so confidently and consistently by announcers and fans alike?

Hatton, Baldomir, Chavez, Castillo, Augustus, De La Hoya...they all tried to drown him, and choked in the process.

Not only did they choke. Did it seem to anyone else, that Floyd fends quite well on the INSIDE...where alot of these pressure fighters tried to rally hardest? Just sayin'. Floyd is very good with short-punches, clinches, and he is very clever at tiring fighters out on the inside the same way Ali did (holdin the opponents head down).

In my opinion, the best I've ever seen anyone do against Floyd was Zab in the early rounds of their bout.
Allmenjoi8
The Castillo fight was as close as seen Floyd being pushed but Castillo still lost (which many people debate)... I do not think it is a formula to be Floyd. If you try to nail him (Mosely/Hatton/Zab/Chop Chop/ etc) he will make you pay, if you fight a technical fight forget it. The only way I think one can beat Floyd if they land a lucky punch, but he has never been knocked down or seriously hurt so even then... Who knows. I do not think pressure fighters have a chance, Oscar said that "I forgot to hit and throw punches" what does that say about his skill set
mgrover
its simple. your not going to beat him on skill. to beat floyd you need the combination of speed and power greater than his. and I don't think anyone has that. well pacman may have it but am not sure lately he seems to be in decline. although am curious to see how age as affected floyd.
wolterb
I don't think Zab was tryin' to nail Mayweather. Seemed like he was technical, and confident enough to stand face to face with Floyd without swingin like a mad-man. His mistake was not adapting once Floyd did. He just stood to his guns even though Floyd had him neutralized by those middle rds.
wolterb
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jul 14 2011, 05:05 PM) *
its simple. your not going to beat him on skill. to beat floyd you need the combination of speed and power greater than his. and I don't think anyone has that. well pacman may have it but am not sure lately he seems to be in decline. although am curious to see how age as affected floyd.


See, this is what i disagree with...but, i see yer point. I think the popular thought is that nobody can out-box or out-class Floyd; and, the only alternative is to overwhelm him. Well, i'd argue that plenty of good fighters have tried that tactic and failed.

Floyd's kryptonite is a boxer with an I.Q. Not a bully fighter. My opinion, though.
Eighty88Eight
I thought Castillo clearly beat him in a close fight, and it remains the only fight in Mayweathers career in which he was outlanded and had a higher connect % against him than what managed against his opponent. Castillo didn't quite pressure him ala Winky or Ricky, he just seemed to be able to see Mayweathers speed very well. Floyd had a hard time connecting clean shots against Castillo and Castillo consistently timed him with overhand rights and vicious body shots. And if it needed confirmation, the second fight was also extremely frustrating for Floyd, a fight in which he simply pot shot and ran the entire night. Probably won it 8-4 TOPS.

Floyd acted like it wasn't even close after the fight (the first one), but Roger was clearly anxious from the 4th round on. I've never heard him speak so animatedly, even going so far as telling Floyd to get "a big round" in the 12th. Floyd was easily outworked in that round. Terrific fight, and I had Castillo winning 114-111.
Sicko
some of you act as if nobody has tried to Pressure him since Castillo, Mayweather has improved as a fighter since then as well so maybe that is why nobody has been able to be as effective as Castillo, you can tell he is a PERFECTIONIST and is probably a bit OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder)...meaning things have to be to his liking and he probably don't trust a lot of people to do things for him, so I am sure worked even harder after those Castillo fights

Hatton was effective early but a lot of that was just Mayweather feeling him out for the first 4-5 Rounds like he usually does

Mayweather is a MASTER CHESS PLAYER while the rest of the fighters in boxing today are GOOD CHECKER PLAYERS...Mayweather THINKS BEFORE HE MAKES HIS MOVES because in CHESS EVERY MOVE IS IMPORTANT, compared to Checkers were people are just trying to hurry up and get across the board quickly

with Mayweather, only why you beat him with "PHYSICAL SKILLS" IMO is if you get LUCKY and Knock Him Out EARLY, it is mostly Casual Fans (Fans Of Pacquiao especially) who honestly think "SPEED AND POWER" alone is the answer, that is not the case at all, Mayweather knows how to take both of those things away...WITH TIMING and Accurate Punches, Mayweather against a WILD FIGHTER who makes a lot of mistakes and have absolutely no defense and is just relentless and is just swing away to try and get a KO, Mayweather will ruin that fighters RHYTHM easy and after swinging at AIR for a few rounds that is when they usually start to fall apart and Mayweather really starts to pick them apart

Only way to beat a Master Chess Player...is with ANOTHER MASTER CHESS PLAYER, it will take a THINKER and a TRUE BOXER to beat Mayweather, not some wild BRAWLER with just Speed and Power...Sergio Martinez would have a Solid Chance against Mayweather especially with him having a good Jab, Amir Khan if his chin wasn't so weak, maybe he would have a solid chance because he can BOX and he does have quick hand and a Jab, as for Manny...he would basically have to Knock Him Out EARLY to beat him, Victor Ortiz has some speed and good Power but I am not sure if he has it MENTALLY to even HANG with Mayweather

I think people get in their with Mayweather and is actually not really Star Struck but I don't think they really know how good that dude is until they are in the ring with him, they underestimate his Power as well as his quickness
Spyder
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jul 14 2011, 05:15 PM) *
See, this is what i disagree with...but, i see yer point. I think the popular thought is that nobody can out-box or out-class Floyd; and, the only alternative is to overwhelm him. Well, i'd argue that plenty of good fighters have tried that tactic and failed.

Floyd's kryptonite is a boxer with an I.Q. Not a bully fighter. My opinion, though.

Anyone that tries to "out-box" Floyd Mayweather is an idiot.

The way to beat Floyd is with speed, and angles.
hitman
yes he's been pressured since but has he been pressured by as good of a fighter as castillo? no. if there is a pressure fighter out there that is good enough then of course they can be successful. just because it didn't work for carlos baldomir, doesn't mean it can't work.
HazConvictedFelonMane
In my opinion, if I were a trainer trying to formulate a gameplan, I'd tell my fighter to walk Floyd down. Floyd will take only but so many steps back before he throws a punch. Walk him down but wait for him to throw. On his pedals, he'll usually throw a left hook. That'd be the formula for the Floyd Mayweather of the 2000's. Floyd Mayweather of recent has shown a bit of ferocity. If he's the pressure fighter that's sitting down on his shots, he's a different Floyd. He's more of an enigma now. That pressure style that he displayed in his last fight makes him very scary. If these fighters don't have Shane Mosley's chin, they will be put to sleep. I'd tell Ortiz to feel him out early and adjust. That would be my best advice because I don't know much about the new version of Floyd Mayweather. I know he can take a shot and the best way to beat him is to have one punch KO power. Do I think Ortiz has it? Yes. Do I think Floyd can be knocked out? Yes. Do I think Ortiz will knock him out? No. Either jump on him early or adjust, and do what you can to win.
On another note, I went to visit the good ol' doctor today. I weigh 155lbs, I have negative results for TB/HIV, and I had my blood drawn. Aside from the small amount of pain from the puncture wound, I feel great. I've never felt weak after I've given blood. I've given blood before and went on to play full court b-ball games. Manny Pacquiao's excuse is so hollow that it's a shame. It's been a while since I've had my blood drawn so I wanted to see how I would feel afterwards. We all know the excuse is crap because we saw the 24/7 where he gave blood and went back to training the very next day. The excuses just make it easier to belive that he's juiced in the past or had plans to juice for that match against Floyd. Manny, take the tests. We all know you;re gonna get your ass whooped. Just take the beating like a champion, count your millions, and ride off into the sunset to do your philanthropy work in your 3rd world dump of a country. Seacrest, out.
PColeman28
QUOTE (Sicko @ Jul 14 2011, 02:37 PM) *
some of you act as if nobody has tried to Pressure him since Castillo, Mayweather has improved as a fighter since then as well so maybe that is why nobody has been able to be as effective as Castillo, you can tell he is a PERFECTIONIST and is probably a bit OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder)...meaning things have to be to his liking and he probably don't trust a lot of people to do things for him, so I am sure worked even harder after those Castillo fights

Hatton was effective early but a lot of that was just Mayweather feeling him out for the first 4-5 Rounds like he usually does

Mayweather is a MASTER CHESS PLAYER while the rest of the fighters in boxing today are GOOD CHECKER PLAYERS...Mayweather THINKS BEFORE HE MAKES HIS MOVES because in CHESS EVERY MOVE IS IMPORTANT, compared to Checkers were people are just trying to hurry up and get across the board quickly

with Mayweather, only why you beat him with "PHYSICAL SKILLS" IMO is if you get LUCKY and Knock Him Out EARLY, it is mostly Casual Fans (Fans Of Pacquiao especially) who honestly think "SPEED AND POWER" alone is the answer, that is not the case at all, Mayweather knows how to take both of those things away...WITH TIMING and Accurate Punches, Mayweather against a WILD FIGHTER who makes a lot of mistakes and have absolutely no defense and is just relentless and is just swing away to try and get a KO, Mayweather will ruin that fighters RHYTHM easy and after swinging at AIR for a few rounds that is when they usually start to fall apart and Mayweather really starts to pick them apart

Only way to beat a Master Chess Player...is with ANOTHER MASTER CHESS PLAYER, it will take a THINKER and a TRUE BOXER to beat Mayweather, not some wild BRAWLER with just Speed and Power...Sergio Martinez would have a Solid Chance against Mayweather especially with him having a good Jab, Amir Khan if his chin wasn't so weak, maybe he would have a solid chance because he can BOX and he does have quick hand and a Jab, as for Manny...he would basically have to Knock Him Out EARLY to beat him, Victor Ortiz has some speed and good Power but I am not sure if he has it MENTALLY to even HANG with Mayweather

I think people get in their with Mayweather and is actually not really Star Struck but I don't think they really know how good that dude is until they are in the ring with him, they underestimate his Power as well as his quickness


I agree.... I think people don't give floyd enough credit and it's true that out boxing him won't happen it just won't, but i think the reason pressure is the key is for the very reason you stated there isn't another master chess player like mayweather it's that simple even at 33 34 his speed will still be very very good, but any knowledgeable person knows that timing can counter speed anyday, but he has timing and accuracy as well, so it's really difficult to beat this guy, one thing also people don't understand is this guy has been boxing his whole life as far back as his human brain can remember, i think he is quite a perfectionist but from what i heard that was his dad's doing he was really hard on floyd almost too hard he wanted everything perfect everything...The point is you can't beat the guy unless it's a lucky punch like most people have said or he just fights till he's 50 then he'll lose......maybe.....since there is nothing but checker players our there i think the pressure strategy is the best way to go to try and win a decision because if you just stand in the middle and box..you'll lose...even if you're taking angles on him if you're just trying to BOX HIM they'll lose everytime guarentee.
Sicko
all this pressure talk...MOSELY thought he was going to be the pressure fighter and the one pursing ALL NIGHT, what happens if Mayweather is the one coming forward and he standing his ground and is not backing up and is throwing more punches then you expected?

that is another problem, you really don't know WHICH MAYWEATHER you will see going into a fight with him, so you can game plan to be the "PRESSURE FIGHTER" but if he himself is coming forward and is countering everything you are throwing at him...THEN WHAT?!?!?


but I love how FANS who probably never boxed in their life really think they have the "FORMULA TO BEAT MAYWEATHER"...HAHAHA
Prov0
Floyd loves to be pressured ,and thats everyone game plan against him.Floyd is probably the Greatest Defensive fighter of all time,even if u pressure him hes still hard to hit because he has a wide stance and he rolls with the punches being thrown at him with his stance being wide he attracts u to come into his zone and thats were he catches u or he loves to use the left elbow and stick in right under your chin.
Floyd just a really gifted Boxer i think in order to have any succes u need a reallu good jab.
Id jab him and back up try and make him come to u .try and box him ,move dont engage to much,yes its going to be boring but just try and get ahead on the cards .and if hes behind on the cards he might come at u and take that risk anf hopefully u catch him lol
blackbelt2003
Vernon Forrest at 147.




That's what you would have needed to beat Floyd Mayweather. Tall, superb jab, speed and intelligence. It would have forced Floyd onto the offensive where he is not comfortable.


Maybe also throw in prime 147 Mosley (if old Mosley rocked him in the 2nd, young, prime Mosley decapitates him), not stylistically, but on sheer speed and power.


Wright at 154 would have beaten him for the same reason as Forrest...a great jab and sense of distance that would have forced Floyd to come forwards.



A younger DLH would have also gotten the win. Old DLH just couldn't quite get off with enough punches but was still good enough to make Floyd work.



Having said that I think PBF is better than all of the above, I just think that stylistically they had the formula to either beat him or push him close.




Black
Prov0
I dont think theres anyone in Boxing right now who can beat Floyd. Everyone still brings up Castillo and that was in 2002.Floyd has gotten way better since then.
Hops
Floyd only fights fighters he can beat. It's that simple.
Sicko
QUOTE (Hops @ Jul 14 2011, 03:42 PM) *
Floyd only fights fighters he can beat. It's that simple.



your opinion really has no value because we all know your a Pacquiao cheerleader, you probably have PANTIES with Pacquiao's face on the back of them lol

Floyd only fights Fighters he can beat but yet Pacquiao loves to fight guys AFTER they fight Mayweather taunt.gif


HOPS most mean= Hanging On Pacquiao SACK...because you do that well taunt.gif
STEVENSKI
Everyone seems to forget the body with Floyd. It is almost like they just want to take his head of & forget about the body.

Floyd has great defense & his upper body movement is fantastic. What does not change is his body plane.

IMO the way to beat Floyd is to mix it up with jabs to the head & body & a hell of a lot of feints that will position Floyd to take shots to the body. That in addition to working angles. I am constantly amazed by his opponents coming straight at him. It will take a very good fighter to pull it off but looking to land a hail mary shot is bad business.

Build towards a stoppage by using the jab, angles & a varied body attack. You may bank some rounds & you may not but working that body will pay dividends late in the fight when Floyds footspeed will slow down however slightly & may allow some flush shots to the head.

If I was a trainer I would insist thet the first 3 rounds are for feints & jabs only with the occasional hook to the body. You go looking for the head & Floyd WILL counter you so why give him the chance?
Prov0
LMFAO!!! He said HOPS .....Hangin On Pacquioas Nuts ...LOL..damn it!!!
Hops
Floyd only fights fighters he can beat. It's that simple.

Hahaha!!! Floyd also fights fighters who were beaten or exposed by other fighters.

In fact. Floyd will fight Ortiz who got dropped by a pigeon puncher named Berto.

Let it go man. Pacquiao is a certified PED user to me. He also fights leftovers.

But this is about Floyd. And he only fights fighters he can beat. He thinks he can bet, he doesn't fight. He make up excuses. His superfans make up excuses.

Floyd is shivering at the thought of getting permanently injured facing Pacquiao in the ring. So he fights him by words.
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jul 14 2011, 03:48 PM) *
It seems to be the general consensus that the only way to defeat Floyd is through constant pressure. We've heard this from sports commentators throughout the years...and it is echoed on many boxing forums.

My question is why does this theory still a reputable claim that is made so confidently and consistently by announcers and fans alike?

Hatton, Baldomir, Chavez, Castillo, Augustus, De La Hoya...they all tried to drown him, and choked in the process.

Not only did they choke. Did it seem to anyone else, that Floyd fends quite well on the INSIDE...where alot of these pressure fighters tried to rally hardest? Just sayin'. Floyd is very good with short-punches, clinches, and he is very clever at tiring fighters out on the inside the same way Ali did (holdin the opponents head down).

In my opinion, the best I've ever seen anyone do against Floyd was Zab in the early rounds of their bout.


of the fighters u've named....castillo seemed to do it right in the first fight. none of those guys are on floyds level though. they're all b class at best. imo...the kind of pressure that would give floyd trouble would be a guy like roberto duran in his prime. he came forward constantly but also had pretty good defense himself. he'd punch u anywhere....shoulders, arms, body, neck and was relentless with his attack. it also helped that he had good punching power. we've not seen anyone like that in decades. i don't believe pac is that guy either. he's not really a pressure guy and his defense is suspect. if and when he and floyd fight, i think it will resemble the floyd/gatti fight.
mgrover
i dont think that speed and power is what will beat mayweather. boxing skill can. i just dont think anyone in the jr welterweight, welterweight and super welterweight divisions can out smart and out box him. while if someone was too fast for him he cant apply his knowledge
caneman
A pressure fighter might be able to take Floyd right now with all the extra weight from y'all swing from his damned nuts! lmao! J/K BUT ONLY KINDA!
Box in Hand
Everyone thinks cause Castillo had some luck then that is the way but Castillo was a very special fighter and he lost so "Come Again". I knew Mayweather was gonna kill Hatton when I saw him beat Chavez, which was brilliant. Only way to beat Mayweather is to catch him early because if you don't, you are assed out. Or try like Roach said and outpoint him. And now Ortiz is gonna try the same shit and get his ass beat to a pulp. He will get lucky early and then taken apart.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Jul 14 2011, 05:01 PM) *
The Castillo fight was as close as seen Floyd being pushed but Castillo still lost (which many people debate)... I do not think it is a formula to be Floyd. If you try to nail him (Mosely/Hatton/Zab/Chop Chop/ etc) he will make you pay, if you fight a technical fight forget it. The only way I think one can beat Floyd if they land a lucky punch, but he has never been knocked down or seriously hurt so even then... Who knows. I do not think pressure fighters have a chance, Oscar said that "I forgot to hit and throw punches" what does that say about his skill set

Zab dropped him (Floyd's glove touched the canvas), but for some reason, it wasn't ruled a knock down when it should've been. His glove would've never touched the canvas if Zab hadn't thrown a counter punch, so what does that tell you?

QUOTE (mgrover @ Jul 14 2011, 05:05 PM) *
its simple. your not going to beat him on skill. to beat floyd you need the combination of speed and power greater than his. and I don't think anyone has that. well pacman may have it but am not sure lately he seems to be in decline. although am curious to see how age as affected floyd.

Check my next post.
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jul 14 2011, 05:15 PM) *
See, this is what i disagree with...but, i see yer point. I think the popular thought is that nobody can out-box or out-class Floyd; and, the only alternative is to overwhelm him. Well, i'd argue that plenty of good fighters have tried that tactic and failed.

Floyd's kryptonite is a boxer with an I.Q. Not a bully fighter. My opinion, though.

Exactly! Floyd has already (inadvertently) given opponents the blueprint on how to beat him via the media, but none of them (the fighters) paid any attention. In several interviews, he's said that he doesn't beat a fighter with skills alone, he beats them (mentally) 'cause his boxin' I.Q. is light-years ahead of their's when they're in the ring.
jvo1800
In my opinion pressure fighters aren't the answer to beating Floyd it takes brains and at least a stiff quick jab plain and simple. People give Floyd a lot of credit for his skills, but its mostly his brain that does the majority of the work. If u can out think someone then u have the fight won everytime, but it does help to have great speed and boxing skills. He's as smart as he is quick, so thats what makes him so hard to beat. I personally think Mayweather possibly lost the first fight against Castillo, but that fight was like 10 years ago so its very hard for me to count that in my book because Floyd wasnt even close to his prime and was a lot more offensive oriented back then versus now and he got hit with way more punches when he first got with his uncle Roger. I also wish people stop saying he struggled with Zab Judah too......he landed a couple decent shots in the first 3 rounds and that was it i wouldnt classify that as having trouble against somebody.
PColeman28
QUOTE (Hops @ Jul 14 2011, 03:58 PM) *
Floyd only fights fighters he can beat. It's that simple.

Hahaha!!! Floyd also fights fighters who were beaten or exposed by other fighters.

In fact. Floyd will fight Ortiz who got dropped by a pigeon puncher named Berto.

Let it go man. Pacquiao is a certified PED user to me. He also fights leftovers.

But this is about Floyd. And he only fights fighters he can beat. He thinks he can bet, he doesn't fight. He make up excuses. His superfans make up excuses.

Floyd is shivering at the thought of getting permanently injured facing Pacquiao in the ring. So he fights him by words.



what fighter doesn't try to fight fighters he can beat?

Ortiz is WBC champ why not fight him? Now if hewas fighting berto ion sept 17, then i could agree with you.
PColeman28
he was*

on*
wolterb
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Jul 14 2011, 08:51 PM) *
In my opinion pressure fighters aren't the answer to beating Floyd it takes brains and at least a stiff quick jab plain and simple. People give Floyd a lot of credit for his skills, but its mostly his brain that does the majority of the work. If u can out think someone then u have the fight won everytime, but it does help to have great speed and boxing skills. He's as smart as he is quick, so thats what makes him so hard to beat. I personally think Mayweather possibly lost the first fight against Castillo, but that fight was like 10 years ago so its very hard for me to count that in my book because Floyd wasnt even close to his prime and was a lot more offensive oriented back then versus now and he got hit with way more punches when he first got with his uncle Roger. I also wish people stop saying he struggled with Zab Judah too......he landed a couple decent shots in the first 3 rounds and that was it i wouldnt classify that as having trouble against somebody.


Floyd did not struggle with Judah. But, he lost the first few rounds; and, in my opinion looked clunky and off-his-rhythm compared to his other performances. I agree that Zab landed only "a couple decent shots", but he did more than that. He stood with Floyd, watched Floyd's punches, and dodged a many of them (were talkin the first few rounds).

My main point here is that Floyd does very well against fighters who are pressuring him; and, when made to fight on the inside, Floyd wins the exchanges. Yet, the perception exists that this is the way to defeat Floyd.

I disagree with the people who say anyone who tries to outbox Floyd is an idiot. I think they have as good of chance (if not better) to defeat him as the brawlers and pressure fighters. Just sayin'. When Zab was stealin those initial rds...he was out-thinkin' Floyd. In my opinion, that probably made Floyd a lot more nervous than some stubbourn brawler who tries to bulldoze opponents over through sheer will-power. Especially since Floyd has shown over and over that he can handle those types.
hitman
for whats it's worth floyd has said before that aaron pryor would be his toughest fight. a superb pressure fighter.
zucrates
QUOTE (Sicko @ Jul 14 2011, 05:47 PM) *
your opinion really has no value because we all know your a Pacquiao cheerleader, you probably have PANTIES with Pacquiao's face on the back of them lol

Floyd only fights Fighters he can beat but yet Pacquiao loves to fight guys AFTER they fight Mayweather taunt.gif


HOPS most mean= Hanging On Pacquiao SACK...because you do that well taunt.gif

Don't forget the catch weights
Lil-lightsout
I can not stand either Pac or PBF, I dislike them both. But I find it humorous when the Floyidiots bust on the Pactards for swinging on Pac's nuts when they do the same exact thing to PBF's nuts.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jul 15 2011, 12:21 PM) *
I can not stand either Pac or PBF, I dislike them both. But I find it humorous when the Floyidiots bust on the Pactards for swinging on Pac's nuts when they do the same exact thing to PBF's nuts.


LL knows the damage a good bodyshot can do............
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I actually think a decent jab troubles Mayweather. People forget Oscar couldn't miss with that jab in the middle rounds, even marking up Floyd a lil, but then the dude just totally forgot to keep throwing it. Always mystified me that.
BoxingWizard23
Pressure fighters is what Floyd loves. The only way to beat Floyd is for a fighter who is smarter than Floyd, end of story. It is said he has probably the highest boxing IQ of all time. And for those who think Floyd struggle with Castillo in his 2nd fight, are wrong. They need to go and rewatch that fight Floyd left no doubt that he won that fight. That was the first time he fought on the backfoot in a fight that much in career during that time.

If the Floyd now fought Castillo then Floyd would easily win because he learned from those fights. Floyd adapts to his opponents style and it doesn't take long for him to figure you out and once he does then you should know what's going to happen. Oscar basically had Floyd go up against the whole GBP. I mean he picked the ref, judges, ring size, and glove size. Not to mention at the night of the weigh in they said Oscar was at super middle weight weight when he fought Floyd. I watched that fight so many times and those cards were so wrong it should have been a UD for Floyd. Oscar won the middle Rd's but Floyd did better in the first few rounds and the last bit. I do believe Floyd's toughest fight would be against Sergio Martinez.

Martinez is smart, southpaw, slick, has power, speed, quickness, and length but i doubt he's smarter than Floyd which is why he will probably lose. People say work rate is the best way to win and they look at Manny. Manny just throws punches in bunches and most of his opponents happen to be flat footed and slow so it makes it look like he's really fast. Let him go up against the likes of Berto or a prime shane mosley or Floyd then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I see the fight between Floyd vs Manny similar to Gatti who tried to pressure Floyd all nite.

As it stands the only way to beat Floyd Mayweather Jr. is to outsmart him and adapt or a lucky punch plus with these fighters these days....i don't see it.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ Jul 15 2011, 03:57 AM) *
It is said he has probably the highest boxing IQ of all time.


By whom? Renowned boxing historian Roger Mayweather? Give me a break.
BoxingWizard23
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 15 2011, 04:42 AM) *
By whom? Renowned boxing historian Roger Mayweather? Give me a break.


In the REAL RING magazine they asked key ring historians and classic fighters about Mayweather and other fighters during the early 90's and alot of them summarized that Mr. Mayweather was indeed special that he seems to calculate every move before he makes and makes sure he has more than 1 option when makes those moves or if he makes mistake or if his opponent does something. They notice he never underestimated no opponent and always keeps his eyes on them and seems single out the crowd to focus. This as they said puts his ring boxing IQ as the highest as they ever seen. It's in the RING magazine where I believe it was tribute to Marciano or Ray Robinson. My uncle has most of those Magazines and if I can go through his and find that article I will gladly post scan the pages and put it on here as evidence.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ Jul 15 2011, 04:02 AM) *
In the REAL RING magazine they asked key ring historians and classic fighters about Mayweather and other fighters during the early 90's and alot of them summarized that Mr. Mayweather was indeed special that he seems to calculate every move before he makes and makes sure he has more than 1 option when makes those moves or if he makes mistake or if his opponent does something. They notice he never underestimated no opponent and always keeps his eyes on them and seems single out the crowd to focus. This as they said puts his ring boxing IQ as the highest as they ever seen. It's in the RING magazine where I believe it was tribute to Marciano or Ray Robinson. My uncle has most of those Magazines and if I can go through his and find that article I will gladly post scan the pages and put it on here as evidence.


Please do.
duwdu
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 14 2011, 07:02 PM) *
of the fighters u've named....castillo seemed to do it right in the first fight. none of those guys are on floyds level though. they're all b class at best. imo...the kind of pressure that would give floyd trouble would be a guy like roberto duran in his prime. he came forward constantly but also had pretty good defense himself. he'd punch u anywhere....shoulders, arms, body, neck and was relentless with his attack. it also helped that he had good punching power. we've not seen anyone like that in decades. i don't believe pac is that guy either. he's not really a pressure guy and his defense is suspect. if and when he and floyd fight, i think it will resemble the floyd/gatti fight.


That's a good post and a believable call w.r.t. Roberto Duran and Floyd Jr. prof... That Dura[ble] guy came up essentially two weight classes at the time to beat Sugar Ray Leonard - a very intelligent fighter in his own right - during their first fight... and both Duran and Leonard were in their prime for that fight IMO, and for the ass-woopin' Duran received during the re-match shortly afterwards, leading to the infamous "No mas" that Duran did.

P34c3
duwdu
QUOTE (hitman @ Jul 14 2011, 10:07 PM) *
for whats it's worth floyd has said before that aaron pryor would be his toughest fight. a superb pressure fighter.


Didn't know that, thanks.

P34c3
AussieLad
QUOTE (duwdu @ Jul 15 2011, 11:11 AM) *
That's a good post and a believable call w.r.t. Roberto Duran and Floyd Jr. prof... That Dura[ble] guy came up essentially two weight classes at the time to beat Sugar Ray Leonard - a very intelligent fighter in his own right - during their first fight... and both Duran and Leonard were in their prime for that fight IMO, and for the ass-woopin' Duran received during the re-match shortly afterwards, leading to the infamous "No mas" that Duran did.

P34c3


You reckon thats a good post where he compares Pac to gatti... fuck me dead... Gatti was a fucking snail in there, taking a beating. No way is pac vs floyd that one sided
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Jul 15 2011, 11:18 PM) *
You reckon thats a good post where he compares Pac to gatti... fuck me dead... Gatti was a fucking snail in there, taking a beating. No way is pac vs floyd that one sided


Drink it down & drink it good. Cool & refreshing just like Floyd/Pac fans unbiased opinions.



You will see the light. Pac is garbage he is like Cottee's fruit cup to Floyd's Kool Aid chief.
wolterb
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 15 2011, 09:29 AM) *
Drink it down & drink it good. Cool & refreshing just like Floyd/Pac fans unbiased opinions.

You will see the light. Pac is garbage he is like Cottee's fruit cup to Floyd's Kool Aid chief.



lol. seems a harsh indictment to place on manny. i agree he is a protected fighter because of his market worth...but you're drinkin' the kool-aid if you think he is "garbage".

and, i don't care how many "boxing historians" you shovel into the same room...there is no way anyone can accurately determine a boxer's "ring I.Q.", let alone compare findings to past boxers. that'd be pretty sweet though.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jul 16 2011, 12:02 AM) *
lol. seems a harsh indictment to place on manny. i agree he is a protected fighter because of his market worth...but you're drinkin' the kool-aid if you think he is "garbage".

and, i don't care how many "boxing historians" you shovel into the same room...there is no way anyone can accurately determine a boxer's "ring I.Q.", let alone compare findings to past boxers. that'd be pretty sweet though.


Sounds like you need a drink my friend.



Nice & refreshing with plenty of sugar to keep your energy up.
wolterb
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jul 15 2011, 10:15 AM) *
Sounds like you need a drink my friend.



Nice & refreshing with plenty of sugar to keep your energy up.


haha. thank you, sir. you are a true gentleman.
i would return the favor...but alas! i do not know how to embed photos on forums!
Seek
I think Castillo was Floyd's kryptonite. He threw the jab both to head and body and landed it frequently, which also set up a nice 1, 2 jab right hand. Great head movement coming in made it difficult for Floyd to land his punches. Floyd makes you fight like him and reduces your punch output, makes you hesitate however Castillo wasn't having it. Thudding power behind a jab, feints, good footwork, work-rate/combinations, head movement, effectively cutting the ring off and can't forget the body work. The whole deal. He was also very sneaky on the inside, holding Mayweather with one arm, hitting him with the other. Hitting him on hips, arms, just making it an all-out fight.

You need a good jab to beat Mayweather. Not only does it off-set your opponents rhythm but it also sets up and hides your punches. Marquez landed good 1, 2's behind the jab. But he couldn't have done it without feints. Feinting vs Mayweather is a must due to the fact that Floyd USUALLY waits for you to throw and anticipates you.

Castillo feint's and head movement made it extremely difficult for Floyd to land any counter-punchers. Floyd's solution to beat Castillo in the 2nd fight was to get off first. That's it, get off first and get out the way. That little move Floyd does when he knocked Hatton into the ring post works like a charm. He takes small steps back towards the ropes showing the right hand but leaning forward to also set up a left hook. If you look at the right hand, he hits you with the left. Then when you look out for the left, he hits you with the right. Then you look for the right again, and he'll hit you with the right! It's hilarious. . . . However this did not work one bit vs Castillo and I believe that was due to his jab and feints/cutting off the ring

Combinations. Reduces the chances of being countered and increases your chances of landing vs a slickster like Floyd. Causes Floyd to stay in defensive mode and in danger of being out-worked.

Everything Castillo did had a purpose much like how Floyd fights and the way he just let his hands go was the best example of how to beat Floyd. Very close fight and wouldn't call you crazy if you gave it to Castillo. It was just one of those fights
mrwigi
I think the one thing people forget is Floyd has been doing this since he was 18 months old. No one adjust in the ring like he does. I would imagine the Pryor would have been Floyds toughest test, but The Hawk would be tough for anybody. Also, whoever beats Floyd will have to be able to adapt on the fly. I dont think anyone does that as well as Floyd. I also think people have underestimated Floyds chin. I mean, the man has gone 41 fights without a single legitimate knockdown. So its kinda hard to imagine anyone hitting him one time and knocking him out. Even when he got rocked by Shane, he kept coming forward.
sduck
Hatton - no jab, wasn't throwing enough punches (but you can also argue Floyd was neutralizing his style)
Baldomir - punches too slow and wide, no jab, no head movement
Chavez - too much blocked ineffective punching to the body, no jab, no head movement
Augustus - too wild, no technique (I heard that Floyd said he was his toughest opponent)
De La Hoya - needed to be more accurate, stopped throwing the jab, no head movement

I'm not trying to be a Flomo, I don't think Castillo was so tough because of Floyd being inexperienced, he looked very experienced in his fights before this... but Floyd honestly didn't look the same in that match. He complained a couple of times to his corner about his arm hurting, he wasn't throwing enough punches, wasn't moving his head much... He just looked uncomfortable and looked like he was trying to survive, and then was told to stand in there and fight in the last rounds. Floyd easily dominated in the second fight IMO, I wouldn't say he just improved that much in the 8 month time frame from their rematch.
People think Pacquiao will beat Floyd because of the theory of pressure, but do people pay attention to how Pacquiao fights? He's not even a inside pressure fighter, he's more of a mid-range brawler. Plus, most of those these pressure fighters being named also liked to ignore punishment, and were walking through Floyd's punches. Pacquiao doesn't like to get hit and take punishment, he usually backs up and sometimes often goes to a defensive mode.

My observation and somewhat theory on how to successfully beat Floyd,
Floyd likes to box - Floyd is most comfortable in the center of the ring. Most of his opponents were either not too good at boxing, or were not fast enough. I think someone would need a consistent, accurate, and fast jab. I would say a decent reach, but if you look at when Floyd fought someone like Tony Pep, Pep had a long reach, but it wasn't fast enough, and Floyd eventually neutralized it.
Floyd is fast - If you're not faster or just as fast, than be powerful.
Floyd is accurate - Head movement; most people who fought Floyd don't consistently move their head, or move it at all.
Floyd has good reflexes and head movement - That's why you need to be accurate as possible, and deceptive.
Floyd is deceptive and a counter puncher - Floyd usually likes to lead with a jab to the body, a jab to the head, a left hook, or a straight right. He often likes to use a stiff stance, which one he'd throw is sometimes tricky, but you should be expecting either... the counter-right should be easy to see coming, his stance when he's about to throw it so obvious. I guess someone would need a hawk's eye to consistently see and counter what he'd throw (something Judah was able to do in the earlier rounds). Always keep your guard up, and not just at the head or you'd get jabbed to the body.
Floyd can fight backwards - Most of his opponents weren't very good at fighting backwards. Floyd can, and when you're trying to pressure the fight, be weary of being countered.
Floyd has good footwork - Floyd's positioning and movement is arguably the best I've seen... Not really an answer to this other than being fast on your feet and also trying your best to cut him off.
Floyd is defensive - Most people don't seem to have an answer to his defense, the common theory is pressure, as everyone has seen so far, everyone has failed :/ I think the reason why that is, is because of a lack of other attributes, such as a good jab, accuracy, head-movement, speed, countering, deceptiveness, stamina... They have a good chin, but that's not enough to beat Floyd, as he's still going to counter and hit you and gain points. I also noticed that when people get him in his defensive stance, they almost never throw an over hand right to the head, something Castillo did do and caught him solidly a few times.
Floyd is versatile - He can box, he can brawl, he can fight on the inside, fight forward, fight backwards, can counter-punch...etc... He's just multi-dimensional. You need to be more than one or two-dimensional, as for when your plan A or plan B is neutralized, what else are you going to do?
Floyd is smart - Floyd is too good at predicting his opponent, adjusting, and neutralizing. You can be as smart as Floyd, but it won't matter if you can't perform how you think. Or can't think how you perform tongue.gif
Floyd has stamina - He can do this for 12 rounds. If you can't, train harder, build that stamina, or try to get something in the earlier rounds; Many have tried but have failed.

To put it simple in my opinion, not saying Floyd is unbeatable, but you almost need the full package. Some people have done well but they lack many or specifically other qualities which is why they fall apart and/or get dominated.
True-Boxing-Fan
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Jul 15 2011, 06:18 AM) *
You reckon thats a good post where he compares Pac to gatti... fuck me dead... Gatti was a fucking snail in there, taking a beating. No way is pac vs floyd that one sided

Yea i agree, anyone trying to compare Gatti to Pacquiao is f'ing blind. As much as I loved watching a Gatti fight he was a dead-man-walking no-hoper in that fight. Gatti was slow as fuck and was already a washed up fighter going in. De La Hoya had KHTFO just a couple fights before. There is just some A+ nutthugging going on in this thread. Whats the next thread you huggers are going to make on Floyd?
duwdu
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Jul 15 2011, 09:18 AM) *
You reckon thats a good post where he compares Pac to gatti... fuck me dead... Gatti was a fucking snail in there, taking a beating. No way is pac vs floyd that one sided


I'm worried for you. You want to know why? Because you appear to read only what you want to see. I never mentioned Pac anywhere, in fact the reference to Pac in the post I was commending was lost on me. This can be deduced from the fact that my own comments were specifically on the Duran-Mayweather fantasy match-up as enthused in the post I was commending. Moreover, my comment was very unambiguous, so how you could read a reference to Pac in my comments is a mystery to me. Take it easy on yourself man.

P34c3
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