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JLUVBABY
oh its gonna be fun watching this mess unfold... lol...
Snoop
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 23 2011, 06:46 AM) *
I figure it is about time to give credit to Team FightHype, from top to bottom, for an excellent job. IMO, this site can now be considered in the vicinity of the epicenter of boxing.

PC's Teddy Atlas interview is flat out real. But it is just the latest in a series of professional work of note. thehype's FMJ score has been a game changer which is an integral component in the evolution of this drama, demonstrating the value of giving celebrities a platform to communicate their perspectives as cleanly as possible.

Dhoward's thread answering member's questions directly is solid. Unfortunately I don't remember everybody's names but I want everyone that contributes to this site (including moderators) to know that I appreciate your effort, and in case you haven't noticed FightHype has evolved into one of the few sources of relevance in the industry.

Seriously.

Cheers to that.

drinks.gif
SmartyBeardo
. . . hmmmm, is that the smell of rotting rat flesh I detect?

Pac is beginning to look like he is chasing his own tail. Why fire the firm you hired to clean the corpses out of your attic? What does Dusty the Organ Grinder have on his #1 monkey?
Method
So much for the "outside muscle".
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Method @ Aug 21 2011, 08:32 AM) *
So much for the "outside muscle".

Indeed.

VisionQwest was out of their league from the get go, it appears. Or, this is just going to get uglier.
Method
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 21 2011, 11:36 AM) *
Indeed.

VisionQwest was out of their league from the get go, it appears. Or, this is just going to get uglier.

I think VisionQuest might be out of their league (or might not), and that its definitely going to get uglier.

None of this is surprising at all. IMP, it all points back to Manny and the idiots he has around him. This is NOT the first time we've seen these wild swings in decision making w Paq. Remember when he signed two separate promotional contracts w both GBP and TRP? IF I were Paq, and this Vision Qwest shit turns out to blow up in his face, I'd be firing the motherfucker that brought Vision Qwest into the damn picture from jump.

Like I said in the first page of this thread - Bob Arum is a Harvard trained lawyer, graduated cum laude, and worked at US Attorney's office in the tax division. He's not some Johnny-come-lately.

VisionQwest cut their teeth in the medical fraud claims/accounting...oh, and they're looking to buy an NBA team.
-----

To be quite honest, I cant even keep track of the bottom line of this whole situation - what exactly is the point that's trying to made on the front page with all the flip-flopping headlines?

Konsz is OUT! Vision Qwest is IN! Arizia loves the "F" word! Manny says Koncz is IN! Koncz is in! Koncz is an errand boy! Vision Qwest is out!

The key takeaway, as far as I can gather, is that Manny Pacquiao's Team is in complete fucking disarray.

thehype
QUOTE (Method @ Aug 21 2011, 01:43 PM) *
To be quite honest, I cant even keep track of the bottom line of this whole situation - what exactly is the point that's trying to made on the front page with all the flip-flopping headlines?

Konsz is OUT! Vision Qwest is IN! Arizia loves the "F" word! Manny says Koncz is IN! Koncz is in! Koncz is an errand boy! Vision Qwest is out!

The key takeaway, as far as I can gather, is that Manny Pacquiao's Team is in complete fucking disarray.


I disagree....you're smarter than that Method...at least I think you are.

The point is, Pacquiao is getting fucked by Arum (no surprise there), and yet he's too fucking dumb to listen to the people (his own fucking wife) who are trying to help him.

But hey, if you're THAT confused about what's going on with the front page headlines, you have my phone number, so I'm sure you would have called or shot me a text about it if you were really that interested in it.

More than the team being in disarray, it's about Pacquiao having no clue about what the fuck he's doing while he burns through all of his money gambling and then begs daddy Arum for advances.
Method
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 21 2011, 01:51 PM) *
The point is, Pacquiao is getting fucked by Arum (no surprise there), and yet he's too fucking dumb to listen to the people (his own fucking wife) who are trying to help him...

...More than the team being in disarray, it's about Pacquiao having no clue about what the fuck he's doing while he burns through all of his money gambling and then begs daddy Arum for advances.


Where in all of those front page stories had it been established that Pacquiao is being fucked by Arum? I guess I missed that part. Maybe another timeline is in order to correctly chronologize what's transpired.

I think at the end of the day, this is EXACTLY about Pac having no clue, and taking one too many "free ones".

To be fair, I dont know that I'd listen to ANY of my my wife's suggestions regarding my business dealings. On second thought, I DO KNOW that I wouldn't listen to my wife. My wife has no fucking understanding of what it is I do and how my business works. It MIGHT be the case that Mrs. Pac is just as clueless (might not be the case, but it might). Sig others serve as great examples of the definition of a critic - they can tell you how to get there, but they can't drive the car.

No need for text messages about it. So far, this thing has been playing out pretty much as I thought it would - which is to say it's chaotic mess, and nothing has played out as advertised so far.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Method @ Aug 21 2011, 11:29 AM) *
Where in all of those front page stories had it been established that Pacquiao is being fucked by Arum? I guess I missed that part. Maybe another timeline is in order to correctly chronologize what's transpired.

I think at the end of the day, this is EXACTLY about Pac having no clue, and taking one too many "free ones".

To be fair, I dont know that I'd listen to ANY of my my wife's suggestions regarding my business dealings. On second thought, I DO KNOW that I wouldn't listen to my wife. My wife has no fucking understanding of what it is I do and how my business works. It MIGHT be the case that Mrs. Pac is just as clueless (might not be the case, but it might). Sig others serve as great examples of the definition of a critic - they can tell you how to get there, but they can't drive the car.

No need for text messages about it. So far, this thing has been playing out pretty much as I thought it would back on page 1 of this thread - chaotic mess.

Sounds like my wife drinks.gif but it sure doesn't stop her from giving me a continuous stream of advice.
thehype
QUOTE (Method @ Aug 21 2011, 02:29 PM) *
Where in all of those front page stories had it been established that Pacquiao is being fucked by Arum? I guess I missed that part. Maybe another timeline is in order to correctly chronologize what's transpired.

I think at the end of the day, this is EXACTLY about Pac having no clue, and taking one too many "free ones".

To be fair, I dont know that I'd listen to ANY of my my wife's suggestions regarding my business dealings. On second thought, I DO KNOW that I wouldn't listen to my wife. My wife has no fucking understanding of what it is I do and how my business works. It MIGHT be the case that Mrs. Pac is just as clueless (might not be the case, but it might). Sig others serve as great examples of the definition of a critic - they can tell you how to get there, but they can't drive the car.

No need for text messages about it. So far, this thing has been playing out pretty much as I thought it would - which is to say it's chaotic mess, and nothing has played out as advertised so far.


Did you miss the article that clearly says Bob Arum is trying to remove VisionQwest from Pacquiao's services because he's not happy about the fact that they contacted NSAC to gather information? Did that not sum things up? Surely you're intelligent enough to read between the lines of anything that I put out there. Perhaps a timeline IS in order if even you can't catch on to what I've been saying.

And I'm sorry, but if my wife WAS BETTER AT BUSINESS than me (which IS THE CASE when it comes to Jinkee and my-dumb-ass-gives-up-money-to-two-promoters Manny), I think I probably would listen to her if she came to me with some concerning information relating to my money.

But hey, if you want to believe that Manny's the one with the great business mind in that relationship, more power to you.

And I didn't really expect any text messages about it. I was simply implying that if you were THAT confused about the front page headlines, you have my number and are free to get the confusion cleared up at any time as opposed to voicing your confusion on the message board.
Eighty88Eight
What, other than making a poor business decision on a spur of the moment, constitutes Manny being a less competent business decision-maker than his wife? And what exactly makes her more qualified to make business decisions? Perhaps we should find out the reason why VisionQwest was terminated before damning Bob Arum, no? If this stuff turns out to be true, and Bob Arums is revealed to be the conniving scumbag people assumed he was, this will turn out to be a pretty remarkable piece of reporting. Promoter's have taken so much advantage of fighters over the decades, and because of their legal naivety, they're usually incapable of doing much about it even if they have suspicions.

My only problem with all this is: Why isn't anyone else reporting on any of this? If at all true, it has much wider implications than just "Bob Arum screwing Manny out of money".
thehype
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 21 2011, 04:47 PM) *
What, other than making a poor business decision on a spur of the moment, constitutes Manny being a less competent business decision-maker than his wife? And what exactly makes her more qualified to make business decisions? Perhaps we should find out the reason why VisionQwest was terminated before damning Bob Arum, no? If this stuff turns out to be true, and Bob Arums is revealed to be the conniving scumbag people assumed he was, this will turn out to be a pretty remarkable piece of reporting. Promoter's have taken so much advantage of fighters over the decades, and because of their legal naivety, they're usually incapable of doing much about it even if they have suspicions.

My only problem with all this is: Why isn't anyone else reporting on any of this? If at all true, it has much wider implications than just "Bob Arum screwing Manny out of money".


Perhaps saying she's "better at business" isn't the correct term, although, thus far, she appears to be doing a better job at running her business ventures than Manny is at running his own (i.e. MP Promotions). What's far more important is that she's more intelligent than him when it comes to recognizing the right moves to make. Manny takes a ho-hum approach to things. Instead of being proactive, he tends to not really care about things until something has already happened and it's too late. She, on the other hand, is far more astute when it comes to being interested in what's going on around her. That doesn't necessarily make her better at business, per se, but it certainly gives her an advantage at recognizing when she's being fucked over.

I know the reason why they were terminated. I spelled it out in the articles. Pacquiao was duped into it.

I couldn't tell you why no one else is reporting on it; same reason why they didn't report on him hiring VisionQwest I suppose. They're just not interested I guess. You would have to ask them.
Method
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 21 2011, 04:10 PM) *
Did you miss the article that clearly says Bob Arum is trying to remove VisionQwest from Pacquiao's services because he's not happy about the fact that they contacted NSAC to gather information? Did that not sum things up?


No. I do not deduce from that, that Bob Arum is fucking over Pacquiao. What I deduce from that is that Arum is pissed about the involvement of VisonQwest. Too many chefs in the kitchen. COULD Arum be fucking Pacquiao over? Yup, its possible, but nothing dropped so far by sources close to the info has proven that.

Arum shouldn't be surprised in the least that VisionQwest asked to see the contracts. They're conducting an audit. Those contracts are filed w the state. That's common practice that VisionQwest would want to check the contracts on file. We'll see. Or not.

My only question (maybe its valid and maybe it ain't) - what the fuck is taking VisionQwest so damn long to uncover any improprieties? It just doesn't take that fucking long. The other question is, how could Bob Arum convinced Pacquiao to drop VQ's services?

I don't believe Manny's business mind is all there whatsoever. He and Jinny are blind leading the blind, in all likelihood - "show me the way to the next Karaoke joint"

I think the only thing I maintained in this thread is that the whole situation is chaotic, contradictory, and nothing has really been established - well, other than maybe a bunch of gravy-traners jockeying for position on the Pacquiao scrotum pole.

I doesn't appear that VisionQwest is that capable. It doesn't seem that Manny and his inner-circle are that capable. I could be wrong, given that nobody seems to have the slightest clue, but I think my money is on Bob Arum in all of this. Give me the Harvard honors grad, who has extensive experience in tax law. How is it that Arum, who has no authority to do so himself, convinced Manny and Co. to terminate VisionQwest?

I have every reason to believe you are in touch w sources close to the information. Of that Im sure. I also believe that the information (and thus the headlines) is all over the place because Pac and his crew are all over the place.

Pacq's ripping through his money, and now all the sudden he's looking to blame somebody for why he don't have what he thought he did.

gravytrain
i just want to know what Arum doesn't want Pac to find out about.
Eighty88Eight
What "evidence" did Koncz present to Manny is what I'm asking.
thehype
QUOTE (Method @ Aug 21 2011, 06:06 PM) *
"show me the way to the next Karaoke joint"


laugh.gif

That's fucked up and yet oh so funny.

Seemed to me like you were implying that you had no idea what point the articles on the front page were trying to point out. In my opinion, it seemed fairly obvious that if you read above, below, and between the lines, it looks as though Bob Arum is covering his tracks, and the easiest way to do that is to eliminate the people following the tracks. I figured as long as you've been around here, you would know that, but clearly, I'll have to start doing a better job of making it more crystal clear.
thehype
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 21 2011, 06:16 PM) *
What "evidence" did Koncz present to Manny is what I'm asking.


Documentation, a snippet from a contract essentially, that looks as though VisionQwest got him to sign a power of attorney, giving them full control of his business affairs.

Pretty sure I mentioned that in one of the articles.

Essentially, he was convinced that VisionQwest was trying to take over his business dealings, he got pissed, and canned them.

When someone is gullible, it's very easy to control them...especially when you know in advance the right things to say and the right way to manipulate them.
Method
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 21 2011, 07:23 PM) *
laugh.gif

That's fucked up and yet oh so funny.

Seemed to me like you were implying that you had no idea what point the articles on the front page were trying to point out. In my opinion, it seemed fairly obvious that if you read above, below, and between the lines, it looks as though Bob Arum is covering his tracks, and the easiest way to do that is to eliminate the people following the tracks. I figured as long as you've been around here, you would know that, but clearly, I'll have to start doing a better job of making it more crystal clear.


I know what articles were trying to point out. And I know this is not you making shit up, but sourcing people close to the information.

My point is that the sources close to the information seem to be all over the place - Koncz is out. Koncz says he's in. MP8.com is unofficial. Arizia says Koncz is out. MP8.com is Official. Manny says Koncz is in. Vision Qwest is in. Vision Qwest is out...etc etc.

At face value, it would seem Arum is covering his tracks. Perhaps Arum is such a shark that he knows how dumb Manny/Manny's team are that he's trying to milk the fuck out of them. I wouldn't be surprised. If that was the case, wouldn't VQ be able find the improprieties?

I also wouldn't be surprised if, even though Manny might be getting terms that were unfavorable, it was all done legally (I'm not saying it is or it isn't). So, what was it after a year of investigatory work (it didn't even take the ENRON people that long to get to the bottom of it after shit started to stink), that would cause Manny to kick them to the curb?

Arum has no authority to hire/fire Vision Qwest. I'd like to know how it is that VQ came into Manny's employ, and how it was that after a year on his payroll, they and their investigatory work was so easily dismissed by Pacquiao? The power of attorney is standard. They would need that to access all those contracts, etc. Its a LOT more efficient to get access to all past legal contracts, etc, with a blanket executed Power-of-Attorney than it would be tracking Manny down for his authority for every single thing.

Truth is though, after first learning of VQ through this site and just doing some digging on them, they seem all wrong for the job, and I stated as much back on page 2. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I just said it doesn't smell right. So, that Manny got suspicious of VQ doesn't surprise me. Perhaps they got a whiff of how much of a mark Manny is and tried to get in on the sweepstakes.

Who knows.

As I've kinda maintained, I tend to like to let these things play out, as experience has shown me that things are never as black and white as the sources close to the situation would have us all believe. That's all.





checkleft
I wouldn't be surprised if mannys just getting milked by arum either.. after all didn't arum have troubles over money with other boxers too. Ahem.. pavlik.. ahem.. mayweather

If so poor manny, he seems like an alright dude.
Eighty88Eight
The picture painted by Ben Thompson of Manny Pacquiao is of a completely naive dunce. I don't quite buy it. Why can't he ask Alex Ariza his thoughts on the subject? Not saying Ben Thompson is trying to be misleading to get at Bob Arum, but I don't feel like I'm getting a complete picture. Who convinced Manny to hire VisionQwest in the first place? And why can't this person convince Manny that Arum and Koncz are misleading him regarding VisionQwest? I mean, why hire them in the first place if it wasn't out of a mistrust of Koncz and Arum? Why would he suddenly believe Koncz without getting someone else's opinion? Is Manny really so indifferent regarding his business decisions? And, if so, why hire VisionQwest in the first place?


SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 06:43 AM) *
The picture painted by Ben Thompson of Manny Pacquiao is of a completely naive dunce. I don't quite buy it. Why can't he ask Alex Ariza his thoughts on the subject? Not saying Ben Thompson is trying to be misleading to get at Bob Arum, but I don't feel like I'm getting a complete picture. Who convinced Manny to hire VisionQwest in the first place? And why can't this person convince Manny that Arum and Koncz are misleading him regarding VisionQwest? I mean, why hire them in the first place if it wasn't out of a mistrust of Koncz and Arum? Why would he suddenly believe Koncz without getting someone else's opinion? Is Manny really so indifferent regarding his business decisions? And, if so, why hire VisionQwest in the first place?

I agree that we don't have the complete picture, but we would have much less of the picture if not for thehype's work. I subscribe to Method's wait and see stance.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 24 2011, 09:59 AM) *
I agree that we don't have the complete picture, but we would have much less of the picture if not for thehype's work. I subscribe to Method's wait and see stance.


Well, there isn't much of a choice is there? I'm going to sit here and clutch my cock until Hype updates his made-up VisionGate drama.
Cshel86
Where there's smoke, there's fire...as they say. If Pacquiao's fine with what he is making, then hats off to him. We all know promoters are supposed to make money off of a fighter, but some do rip the fighters off if the opportunity presents itself (i.e. a fighter doesn't read or thoroughly understand the terms of the contract, etc).
thehype
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 09:43 AM) *
Why can't he ask Alex Ariza his thoughts on the subject?


I have. Some things are said on the record, and some things are said off the record. I discuss what I can...and what I can't discuss, I just let you guys fill in whatever blanks you want.

ok.gif

To answer one of your questions, however, according to Michael Koncz, he was the one who hired VisionQwest last year I believe.

To answer another one of your questions, from what people tell me, he IS pretty indifferent regarding his business decisions. From what I've been told by several people, he spends more time at the casino than worrying about making business decisions. That's just what I'm told though from people who I speak to that are around him. Freddie Roach seems to think that Manny is broke. I've been told by a few other people that he's had to ask Arum for advancements. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 24 2011, 07:08 PM) *
I have. Some things are said on the record, and some things are said off the record. I discuss what I can...and what I can't discuss, I just let you guys fill in whatever blanks you want.

ok.gif

To answer one of your questions, however, according to Michael Koncz, he was the one who hired VisionQwest last year I believe.

To answer another one of your questions, from what people tell me, he IS pretty indifferent regarding his business decisions. From what I've been told by several people, he spends more time at the casino than worrying about making business decisions. That's just what I'm told though from people who I speak to that are around him. Freddie Roach seems to think that Manny is broke. I've been told by a few other people that he's had to ask Arum for advancements. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not.


All he has to do is fight Mayweather and he will have 50 million American dollars to gamble. 50 million is more than he has now. So maybe his low funds will force the fight that everyone wants to see.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 24 2011, 08:08 PM) *
I have. Some things are said on the record, and some things are said off the record. I discuss what I can...and what I can't discuss, I just let you guys fill in whatever blanks you want.

ok.gif

To answer one of your questions, however, according to Michael Koncz, he was the one who hired VisionQwest last year I believe.

To answer another one of your questions, from what people tell me, he IS pretty indifferent regarding his business decisions. From what I've been told by several people, he spends more time at the casino than worrying about making business decisions. That's just what I'm told though from people who I speak to that are around him. Freddie Roach seems to think that Manny is broke. I've been told by a few other people that he's had to ask Arum for advancements. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not.


that boggles my mind if its true. hopefully he's indifferent about being broke too.

if you say it's true, i tend to believe you. but why would Koncz hire VisionQwest?
Method
QUOTE (thehype @ Aug 24 2011, 08:08 PM) *
I have. Some things are said on the record, and some things are said off the record. I discuss what I can...and what I can't discuss, I just let you guys fill in whatever blanks you want.

ok.gif

To answer one of your questions, however, according to Michael Koncz, he was the one who hired VisionQwest last year I believe.

To answer another one of your questions, from what people tell me, he IS pretty indifferent regarding his business decisions. From what I've been told by several people, he spends more time at the casino than worrying about making business decisions. That's just what I'm told though from people who I speak to that are around him. Freddie Roach seems to think that Manny is broke. I've been told by a few other people that he's had to ask Arum for advancements. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not.

That Koncz guy seems shifty as fuck.
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