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Hittman25
he hasnt really fought anybody and it seems like he wont step up to fight gamboa but i dont know what hes thinking and ive only seen him in the juan manuel marquez fight and rocky juarez remtach...hes a pretty good boxer doesnt pressure tho i just wish he would fight top contenders....any answers
Fitz
John seems to be cut from the same cloth as Felix Sturm at this point.
Lil-lightsout
I heard he was a big fan of Calzaghe. laugh.gif
Hittman25
I wish gamboa or juan ma lo or sum top featherweight would just call him out and even fight in indoenisa or whatever
ViperSniper
From the little I've seen of Chris John, I've been pretty impressed with the skills he has and seemed to be a pretty smart/great counter puncher. I don't know if he is scared more than he is bitter? The fact he has fought Marquez and Juarez isn't someone who seems to be scared of fighting top fighters in the division. It's a shame he hasn't left Indonesia enough, or at least fought the top guys as frequent enough. A fight with Gamboa would be a huge fight for the division and is one of the fights I want to see the most in boxing at the moment.
Snoop
With all the crazy shit that goes on behind negotiating fights, I have a hard time believing any fighter is scared to fight for the right amount of money.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jul 29 2011, 10:04 AM) *
With all the crazy shit that goes on behind negotiating fights, I have a hard time believing any fighter is scared to fight for the right amount of money.



I don't think he's scared, it's just that the further east you go, the more boxing changes.


Out east, boxing seems to exist in it's own little world, with it's own set of fighters battling for supremacy against each other. It's almost like an Eastern League with Japan, Thailand, Korea, Indonesia etc (and to a lesser extent, Australia, although some of their guys do travel well like Darchinyan) fighting only each other and not really knowing/caring about fighters from the west.

Kudos to the Philippines, a little nation who has taken the west by storm and refused to stay in their own back yard.



John has been to the US once to take on Juarez. Doubt he'll bother to come here again. Shame because I think he would have unified the featherweight division at any point in the last five to six years, but now he's getting older and the likes of Gamboa would probably be edging him out if they were to fight now.





Black
JLUVBABY
my thought on this is not many of the top names want to travel to indonesia to fight him and im pretty sure he is worried bout getting screwed fighting out of his country.... i was at his first fight vs juarez and i can tell you the hometown crowd at the toyota center booed that draw... juarez came on late but john thoroughly outboxed juarez the first 8 or 9 rounds... im sure he's not ready to sell his title just yet and figures he'll rst on his laurels right there in his own country... i was amazed at the weigh in for that fight harldy no one knew who he was...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 29 2011, 07:09 AM) *
Who knows? Maybe he fears flying. Somebody needs to go into the shithole and KO his ass. Any volunteers?


That's partly the problem, JMM went and tried and got served up a dose of home cooking for his troubles.

Juarez hurt Chris John quite badly in their second fight and I think Gamboa with his youth, speed and power tears him a new one.
Mean Mister Mustard
John is a good fast counterpuncher and I think he could beat Gamboa but if Juarez could get to him with his hooks, then the ultrafast Gamboa might be able to as well. We won't know for sure unless they fight and it seems as if that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Like Blackbelt said, these Asians don't care all that much for traveling over to North America and Europe. Just look at Pongsalek Wonjonkam, one of the best fighters ever at the lower weights and he has never fought outside Asia, as far as I know.
BoxingWizard23
no you need to ask the question is Humberto Soto scared to face top opposition.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ Jul 31 2011, 06:22 PM) *
no you need to ask the question is Humberto Soto scared to face top opposition.

I have said this before - Soto appears to have avoided another war with Antillon (although we are not aware of all the behind the scenes circumstances). I think that it is very unlikely that Soto will fight Rios. He might fight JMM if the likely happens.
BoxingWizard23
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 31 2011, 09:29 PM) *
I have said this before - Soto appears to have avoided another war with Antillon (although we are not aware of all the behind the scenes circumstances). I think that it is very unlikely that Soto will fight Rios. He might fight JMM if the likely happens.

Agreed. The fuck! He ducked Katsidis, Rios, Antillon 2, doubt he fights Marquez, ducked Acosta, Anthony Peterson etc. I don't know how he expects to keep fighting shit opposition to get a belt at 140 unless he fights the winner of the Morales vs Barros WBC title fight. I don't see Soto beating the likes of any of the top 140 pounders besides maybe Judah. Everyone else would beat him.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ Jul 31 2011, 07:03 PM) *
Agreed. The fuck! He ducked Katsidis, Rios, Antillon 2, doubt he fights Marquez, ducked Acosta, Anthony Peterson etc. I don't know how he expects to keep fighting shit opposition to get a belt at 140 unless he fights the winner of the Morales vs Barros WBC title fight. I don't see Soto beating the likes of any of the top 140 pounders besides maybe Judah. Everyone else would beat him.

I agree but he has had an excellent career and I really can't blame him for hiding in Sinaloa.
BoxingWizard23
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 31 2011, 10:10 PM) *
I agree but he has had an excellent career and I really can't blame him for hiding in Sinaloa.

Too bad he's become a excellent ducker. He deserves a new nickname. He's ducked more top opposition than Pacman. Soto will have no choice but to keep fighting shit contenders till his career his stained to the point where not even Tide can clean it or a ODST test either.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ Jul 31 2011, 08:11 PM) *
Too bad he's become a excellent ducker. He deserves a new nickname. He's ducked more top opposition than Pacman. Soto will have no choice but to keep fighting shit contenders till his career his stained to the point where not even Tide can clean it or a ODST test either.

I really don't blame him at this point in his career. He is no HOFer. He has had a lot of wars. His Antillon victory showed ballz. He knows what it takes to keep his boat afloat.
BoxingWizard23
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jul 31 2011, 11:27 PM) *
I really don't blame him at this point in his career. He is no HOFer. He has had a lot of wars. His Antillon victory showed ballz. He knows what it takes to keep his boat afloat.

He's a bitch. His career will never be defined if he doesn't step up...NOW...he knows that he will lose to any top opposition. I just wanna see how he's gonna get one of them belts at 140 besides fighting the Morales vs Barros winner..I wanna see...
BigG
John will get destroyed by Gamboa if they ever do fight. I'm thinking a blowout in 10.
and the NEW
John and Gamboa are really the only 2 guys who can claim to be the champ at 126.

This is why the ring title needs to become the only recognised one. Whoever wins this fight, would get the title and become a real champ.
FinitoElDinamita
Dont be silly.. When you're on the level of Chris John as a fighter,you aint scared of no man... Regardless of the level of comp, he's been a champion since 03 and that's quite an accomplishment right there. I dont care how many bums you fought, it's nearly impossible to stay undefeated for as long as he did..

Bernard Hopkins' MW title reign looked simliar. He defended against a bunch of valet boys and part time construction workers yet he gets so much praise for his MW reign..

Dragon John is a bad bad man..
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (FinitoElDinamita @ Aug 8 2011, 05:59 PM) *
Dont be silly.. When you're on the level of Chris John as a fighter,you aint scared of no man... Regardless of the level of comp, he's been a champion since 03 and that's quite an accomplishment right there. I dont care how many bums you fought, it's nearly impossible to stay undefeated for as long as he did..

Bernard Hopkins' MW title reign looked simliar. He defended against a bunch of valet boys and part time construction workers yet he gets so much praise for his MW reign..

Dragon John is a bad bad man..

True.
EAlbian
QUOTE (FinitoElDinamita @ Aug 8 2011, 08:59 PM) *
Dont be silly.. When you're on the level of Chris John as a fighter,you aint scared of no man... Regardless of the level of comp, he's been a champion since 03 and that's quite an accomplishment right there. I dont care how many bums you fought, it's nearly impossible to stay undefeated for as long as he did..

Bernard Hopkins' MW title reign looked simliar. He defended against a bunch of valet boys and part time construction workers yet he gets so much praise for his MW reign..

Dragon John is a bad bad man..



I just said the same thing in another thread. Fitz kind of a double standard on your part. Hopkins reign at MW is very similar to Calzaghe's at SMW, their careers are very similar when you dissect them with Hopkins just sticking around longer looking for bigger fights(more of a legacy).

I think the difference in Hopkins' case is that eventually he did take a step up. John makes a lot of money fighting in Indonesia and doesn't need to fight here or anywhere else for anything other than legacy. So it comes down to what he really wants to be remembered for. The money isn't here for him and unfortunately this is where all the challenges lie.
and the NEW
Exactly Fitz, BHOP unified (which is the same basically as winning and holding the ring belt, which he did, same for Kostya).

Chris John has not.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 9 2011, 06:15 PM) *
No, not really a double standard at all. In most cases, not all (for example the heavyweight division doesn't apply), you go to the States and fight everyone they put in front of you, because that's where the best come to do it. That's where the world class fighters come.

Bernard Hopkins, like Kostya Tszyu fought EVERYONE they put in front of them. There was nobody that they didn't fight, but should have in there division. Does that mean that every single opponent was A+? No it doesn't, but fact is, they were champions for a VERY long time, defended against all mandatories and fighters they put in front of them. Not many names come up that they didn't fight, and that's because they fought the best the division had to offer on a consistant basis. Everyone stepped up to the plate, and they continually got the job done time and time again.

John for example has had several fighters move in and out of his division since 2005: Gamboa, Lopez, Salido, Caballero, In-Jin Chi, Soto, Guzman, Solis, Guerrero, Linares.

How many of some good potential opponents has he fought? Not many. You can't come up with a list that long with Hopkins, and that's the difference.

Hopkins/Tszyu is absolutely nothing like John/Calzaghe. Hopkins and Tszyu fought ALL POTENTIAL opponents they put in front of them, and cleaned out, and I respect that. John and Calzaghe did NOT fight all potential opponents.

If your argument is that they can make a better living fighting in there backyard, as they get paid better, then I can agree with that and understand that. But when talking about legacy, and cleaning out your division, then that is an insult to guys like Hopkins and Tszyu if you're going to compare their defenses to guys like Chris John and Joe Calzaghe.



Hopkins never fought McClellan or Jackson the two best MW at the time. Liners was knocked out. Kosta Tzyu never fought Mayweather or Cotto and had a long period of inactivity before he eventually fought Hatton. There were challenges out there for Hopkins that he never pursued. His list of MW defenses are weak to say the least. I respect Hopkins for what he did post Trinidad, not before. Tzyu fought garbage instead of going north for real money fights when the welterweight division was stacked, I don't respect him for that. I've never been a Tzyu fan and think he is highly overrated. His best win is Judah who turned out to be a serial choker. I know how much you adore him but we won't ever see eye to eye on that.

I agree to what you are saying about Hopkins eventually clearing 160 out but while the division was hot he didn't pursue the challenges. Calzahge eventually cleared 168 out and came stateside and(although debatable) beat Hopkins for the title at 175.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 9 2011, 07:26 PM) *
In 93, Hopkins lost to RJJ for a title. After that he had a couple of fights, and then fought for a title against Mercado with the first becoming a draw and got tied up with a rematch later. In 93 and 94, around the same time frame McClellan and Jackson fought each other twice, soon after that Jackson didn't seem to be on top for much longer. He was stopped 3 times during that period.
McClellan had one fight after his fight with Jackson, and we know what happened there.
The timeline between them just didn't work out great.

Kostya Tszyu never fought Mayweather and Cotto? Can't be serious can you?

In 2001 when Kostya fought Zab, Cotto made his pro debut that very year. Cotto stepped up competition in 2004 when he fought the solid gate keeper. Lovemore N'Dou. That same year, Tszyu was having a rematch with the guy that was considered #1 fighter at 140, and was a favourite in Sharmba Mitchell. I know in hindsight, you may dismiss Mitchell, but at the time, he was considered the best guy at 140 even though Tszyu was undisputed, and was expected to beat Tszyu, with Tszyu coming back from injury.
When exactly was Cotto ready to fight Tszyu?

Mayweather moved to 140 in 2004 to fight Corley, while Tszyu and Mitchell (1 vs 2 at 140) were getting it done. After that, Mayweather fought Bruseles and Gatti for a paper title in 2005, while Tszyu went to the UK for now what was his last fight.

You mentioned 2 names, but they were not viable options at the time. Only in hindsight they look good to bring up, but at the time, it wasn't the case.

What Tszyu and Hopkins did was clean out the division, which goes underrated now because these days, the popular thing to do is fight once or twice a year, not against the best opposition, but the one with the biggest name and the best profit and that is apparently what makes people great.

That's what I don't like, people seem to rate fighters on a solid couple of wins, while guys like Hopkins and Tszyu, you should look at what they did as a whole, everything over the years is accumulated to being great.
Now, you have a jackass like Ortiz who is on the brink of making a name for himself, and it's not because of years and years of hard work like Hopkins and Tszyu did.
Things what Hopkins and Tszyu did goes underrated, and it's because you don't see the who's who of boxing on there. For me, I look at the years as a whole, rather than look for one or two great fights.



Fitz i know the history, Hopkins could have met jackson in a unification fight. jackson regained the title in 95' after McClellan moved up. Again i know the history. Tzyu cleaned out a recognizably weak division because he was complacent in mediocrity, instead of chasing greatness. Mayweather was right there to fight Tzyu but he had no interest in fighting him, instead he looked to fight Mitchell a second time. Cotto defended his title 3x before the Hatton vs Tzyu fight. Tzyu fought JCC in 2000, 6 years after DLH decimated him in 96'. Was he a mandatory?? he could have went north and at least tried to be great instead of fighting scrubs in one dvision for 10 yrs. we will never agree on this
jlupi
FFFFFFFFFitZZZZZZZZZZ

tszyu at his best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmE5AKpU90
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 10 2011, 04:43 AM) *
He lost it in 95 as well for his first title defence.



Nope, that wasn't the case. Kostya Tszyu was scheduled to fight Mitchell A LONG time ago. He injured himself and the Mitchell fight was postponed twice. Tszyu was out of action for 22 months. Of course he was obliged to fight Mitchell after the post postponements, he was also the #1 guy at 140, while during that time, Mayweather was at 135 fight N'Dou. When exactly was he supposed to fight Mayweather when he was out injured for 22 months, and had a contract already signed to fight Mitchell well before those 22 months?
Mayweather signed with Gatti, and Tszyu lost his next fight. Sorry, but your timeline just doesn't add up. I know in hindsight, you can say he avoided Mayweather, but the fact is, the timing of everything was wrong. Tszyu's career finished while Mayweather picked up a paper title at 140.
It just didn't happen like you said it did.



When? Tszyu was out for 22 months, and had a contract done with Mitchell even before Cotto was even in the picture. Tszyu can't fight Cotto when he is out injured and has a fight signed with Mitchell, that had been postponed twice, can he?
When should have this happened? Cotto was green at the time anyways, they didn't want him in with Mayweather at 140 anyways, they wouldn't even have thrown Cotto in with Tszyu at that point, even if they could. But point is, Tszyu was out of action and the Cotto fight wasn't an option.



That's 4 years, not 6. Also, DLH last fought Chavez in 98, which makes it 2 years after Oscar had his last fight with him, not 6 years or 4 years. But point taken.

I'm not going to change your mind on what you think of Tszyu and Hopkins, but they are respected for a reason, and they clean out there respective divisions and dominated for years. You don't like that, fine. But myself and many other can respect that, as that is old school and what fighters should try and do. Rather pick and choose on who will give them the most money.


I'm not saying Tzyu avoided Mayweather im just stating he never pursued him. Tzyu stayed @140 for way too long when there was a hotbed of talent 7 lbs north that he never pursued. I'm not saying i dont respect either fighter because i do. I'm merely highlighting the fact that when there were good fighters around Tzyu he had no interest in fighting them.

here is mayweather saying he wants to fight Tzyu 5 months before the Hatton fight, i understand the timeline and the logistics of the fights. I understand the circumstances but in my eye Tzyu never persued greatness where fighters of the same time period(whitaker, DLH, Mosley) did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEHF5HX6Jb0

Sorry about the typo mixed the years up in my head haha. It was 4 years because when they first fought it was @140 and thats what i was going by, the second fight was completely unnecessary and served only to line pockets.

I'm more disappointed as a fan that Tzyu was complacent not to want big fights, after the Judah fight he could have easily moved up or pursued bigger names yet he fought Tackie and Leija. He had already beaten the #2 and unified, what was the point of those defenses? he could have easily went up and looked for Mosley or Forrest or Mayorga. Mosley went north 12lbs to fight DLH and won, no reason for Tzyu not to even try for that fight.

It's whatever, Fitz i know you know your stuff and you are logical in your explanations. Back to Chris John, he beat JMM when he was on top and is complacent in defending and making money overseas. Gamboa and Juanma didn't want to go over there to fight him and Arum didn't wanna make that fight. John is co-promoted by GBP as well. The Linares fight was discussed but John wanted to go back to fight at home
and the NEW
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 10 2011, 10:31 PM) *
I also agree that John gets a heap of credit for beating Marquez


I agree John needs to get a lot of credit for how he did against Marquez, but I just didn't see John winning that fight. A very tactical chess match though.
and the NEW
QUOTE (jlupi @ Aug 10 2011, 01:43 PM) *
FFFFFFFFFitZZZZZZZZZZ

tszyu at his best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmE5AKpU90


Fark I love that fight!

After seeing what DLH (at his prime IMO at 140) did against Gonzalez, and then to see Tszyu come out and just blow him away like that, was something else.

Also, people talk about Tszyu not moving up, but let's not forget, a lot of the top competition around at that time (DLH, Mosley) just went right past his division. Perhaps because there was even better money at 147, but I have no doubt a lot was to do with the risk:reward, and Tszyu posed a big threat to those guys in his prime.
SmartyBeardo
If anything, boxers leapfrogged Tszyu. He ruled 140 the way it should be done.
FinitoElDinamita
DRagon John will be fighting the dangerous Satoshi Hosono !!!!!!!!

Edit: Satoshi is a japanese killer with one loss on his record by Poonsawat Kraetinggym..
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