George Will once wrote a brilliant article about juicing, specifically about Barry Bonds, but it obviously pertains to a lot of the philosophical debates that occur here and elsewhere about steroids and performance enhancers. This is a MUST read: http://www.newsweek.com/2007/05/21/barry-b...nhancement.html

interesting read.

very intriguing indeed. He already spilled out what we already know but as far as the deeper history was new to me. Good shit. Somebody should get an anonymous person to email Ariza this article.

How come I can relate this article to Manny Pacquiao and his unprecedented feat of 8 weight division champion..(7 really)

Couldnt do shit for Vargas though, could they (among others).

What was so brilliant about this article? Granted I kinda sped read, but what was so brilliant about this one?

Mosley was on PED's against Pacquiao. All it did was teach him how to run.

We should also research on PED's that allow you to punch in weird angles. Also, those off balance power shots. They are the results of PED's, too. And PED's that grow tougher chins.

if you don't mind a head like Barry Bonds you could get GH lol.




any article about PEDs is brilliant ever since Mayweather accused Pac. i'm just wondering how many people including myself can say that Pac caught fighters at good times but then in the next breath they want to say Pac put on a performance to where it looked like he'd to be on PEDs.

I'd lay farm on Paq catching cats at good times in their careers/coupled with performance DEBILITATING catch-weights over PEDs/roids any day. but that's just based on what I see.

Because of its magnificent psychological and sociological insight into the steroid era, it's passionate support of natural, hearty competition, and because of it's wonderful definition of what winning truly is... and why it should be held in reverence and not debased by the "virtuosity of chemists". Just a fine all around article from one of the great journalists in American history.

that's how i see it. i remember hearing a lot of that before the drug testing issue and then people switched it to PEDs too lol.

i think the only performance that really left me scratching my head was Clottey. that's just a weird fight. i knew Pac's work rate would give him trouble but even when he could counter he just sat back and took punches.

Beardo, if you played sports your head would be counted as a player and get its own number lol

Paq's not the only guy that beat Clottey though. Cotto, Margarito etc. ALL BEAT Clottey. Zab lost to Clottey, but Cotto bea Zab up too...and Margarito sure as shit would have.

Lets not forget the weights FMJ moved up from either.

Its all just a fucking psych ploy.

You give in to this you already conceded chess pieces that never existed, but you let your opponent create.

I think this article illustrates why, ultimately, despite Mayweather's conveniently-timed desire to "clean up boxing", full, year-round, random testing should be the goal that boxing strives for. It's more than just about the handful of fighters who are left brain damaged and crippled, it's about holding in reverence the concept of "the lonely submission" that fighters must carry out to be victorious, in this, the most intense, brutal, and communal of sports.

Perhaps boxing will be compelled to clean itself up if the fans are determined to have a higher standard for it. Cheating in boxing is the most ignoble form of cheating in any sport because it is the most demanding of all sports.

My head scared the shit out of dudes on the opposite side of the line of scrimmage. My face was all busting out the front of the helmet, nearly touching the face-mask. In those days you could hit with your helmet. I normally didn't bother, preferring to run into dudes face first. I broke more face-masks and cracked more helmets on dudes than the entire team combined.

Stop using logic Meth. Just let fly with wild unfounded unsubstantiated accusations because we know they are the truth.

wow, none of you idiots have anything of substance to say? must be MMA fans in here.

I'll bet my head has more substance than your rack.

This article is old news. I wouldn't mind PED and PEDless divisions.

Why is your name Eighty88Eight?

I simply read your name as HH & see you as a neo nazi racist. All because of your name.

hahaaaa. im not racist nor a neo nazi. im andrew.

I am a Andrew as well. So there we go. Sorry I just view any screen name as a 88 as being symbolic for Heil Hitler.

why would you make such hasty presumptions about a fellow lover of boxing?

Wow this article sounds like pacroid all the way

Purely because 88 is used by baldheads as a universal code for Heil Hitler.

Thats exactly where I went with it too.

Dammit man, I was getting there, but you had to go and shake the gift.

what can really be said about a 4 year old article that someone probably found by searching "peds and sports" in Google? the push to change drug testing in boxing is a joke anyway. Mayweather isn't going to be wanting to do anything about it once he retires. all he's doing right now is making people he fights do the testing. why isn't his undercard getting tested?

Never thought of that before. Its so simple!

More must be made of that point!

I wonder what sort of undercard they would put on for a fight of this magnitude? I remember when De la Hoya and Floyd fought the undercard was shit. You'd think Hoya with all his millions could've taken a small paycut and put it towards a stellar undercard. I don't blame Floyd for that because it ws his first mega payday but Oscar? Dude should've forked out for something better. This is a real pet peeve of mine!

Those big fights where you're gonna get a lot of casual fans tuning in should have great undercards, coz afterall it's an advert for boxing in general.

Erik Morales, Saul Alavarez, and i think vargas is on it too, but i can't remember...it's a decent undercard with popular mexico fighters.




That's actually a valid point. A lot of boxing fans already give him crap for wanting his opponents to take these test, if he was demanding his undercard fighters to do it.. oh man he'll catch HELL from everywhere, but personally i think he's just older and knows losing is more probable now and if he does lose, he doesn't want to lose to someone who is on PED's...but that's just my opinion. If you think about it he fought his whole career without caring, so to suddenly care now is interesting i can't help but believe it has to do with his age....

. . . his kids, his evolving sense of mortality, his talent for getting what he wants.

I think this article illustrates why, ultimately, despite Mayweather's conveniently-timed desire to "clean up boxing", full, year-round, random testing should be the goal that boxing strives for. It's more than just about the handful of fighters who are left brain damaged and crippled, it's about holding in reverence the concept of "the lonely submission" that fighters must carry out to be victorious, in this, the most intense, brutal, and communal of sports.
>>>>>>

year-round, random testing might be the goal but I dont see it happening. Not with boxing being the dysfunctional global sport that it is. Their is no org that could enforce and pay for the testing, which is controlled by indiv states (who are cutting budgets as is) in the US. who knows about outside the US.

Boxing is unlike other sports as their is no league or dominant org to oversee the testing

what differences does it make when it was written? is there nothing left to say about Swift because he died a long time ago? you're an idiot. i'm a fan of the writer, it wasn't googled, and what does testing for PED's have anything to do with the purity of floyd mayweather's intentions? this writer lays down in cold facts, sound philosophy, and with sociological insight why eliminating drug-use in sports is not only healthy for boxer's heads, not only important for the integrity of sports, but why fair, natural competition elevates athlete and spectator. it puts this big, mindlessly-partisan debate about Pac and Mayweather in perspective, and despite the legitimacy of Mayweather's intentions (which have already been established... he's full of shit), he's right. period.

Because you can't foresee strict testing being implemented across boxing mean all well-intentioned, smart, willful people involved with boxing should stop trying to make that happen? What, other than the past, informs your foresight? Boxing is being increasingly marginalized, and the violence of the sport isn't what's driving viewers away. It's the whiff of illegitimacy of the sport detected by all who even casually follow it; from it's cheating athletes, cheating promoters, crooked judges... all coupled with it's distribution problems (premium networks, ppv's, expensive tickets) is what is, and has been, perverting the sport. The greatest sport ought to have the greatest standards.

Co-sign.

P34c3

I co-sign this as well.

P34c3

right on, brah

What a load of bollocks. Boxing when it was at it's mainstream largest had just as much corruption (if not more) than it does now. Fighters were controlled by the mob, even the top guys took dives against bums because they were told to.

I'll give you another sport which you probably don't know much about and that is cricket. It is massive in Asia: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, Well over a billion viewers and many of them fanatics. There has ben so much match fixing that has come to light in recent years to make the whole sport look comical but cricket in that part of the world is bigger than ever.

PPV's and the distribution model, I will agree are hurting the sport, but the crooked judges and cheating fighters part is, with greatest respect, rubbish. The same kind of shit is going on in practically every pro sport you can think of.

I was going to write a follow up post to that, but I figured nobody was reading anyway. I was speaking only of boxing's domestic situation, not internationally, where it's still extremely healthy. Boxing's past popularity illustrates the changing standards in America, particularly following the Olympic and MLB scandals. I think it's overstating it to say cheating and crookedness is part of every pro sport. Human error and deviousness is part of the fabric and character of sports, but cheating is never justified, it's always ignoble, and American's are obviously recoiling from it. Just look at how much MLB has marginalized itself in a few short years. It's rating's, excluding one or two teams, are worse than they have been in decades.

I don't understand your rationale... are you saying that because cheating is equally prevalent in other sports - and more so in Asia, according to your choice of statistics - that it should not be fought to a standtill in boxing? Why have you chosen to showcase the example of cricket, which neither generates the same level of one-on-one violence nor revenue? Why not showcase areas such as the Olympics or Cycling where some level of success controlling doping by athletes, is being achieved?

Indeed, why do some commentators succumb to this "not invented here" syndrome?

P34c3

i wonder why it's that only after Mayweather makes some claims people have to post PED articles. you cats need a new hero. Fonzworth Bentley probably has more guts and appreciates the fans more if you want to start posting articles about loud clothes.

testing reform is a joke in boxing. it's going to die when Mayweather retires and will just be another excuse fighters use if they lose. nobody is serious about changing boxing, the only thing they're serious about is getting paid.

This sounds defeatist to me... nothing ventured, nothing gained. Attempts to confront and fight doping by athletes in the Olympics and at major cycling tours, just to consistently name a few, were probably seen by some as jokes at some point in the past as well. Besides, I would not be at all surprised if you prediction turns out to be wrong, and the struggle to fight doping in boxing fails to die, when Mayweather retires. Come on, you're just inadvertently saying that Mayweather is so omnipresent in boxing today; I thought that's what some have been arguing and putting their reputations on the line against?

P34c3

Read the thread and my reply to it again mate. Eighty whateverhisfuckennameis wrote that the decline of boxing was in large due to the amount of crookedness in the sport. I was clearly rebutting with the argument that even when boxing was at it's most popular it was very crooked, even more so than today.

I also highlighted cricket as a sport that is very crooked but suffers no drop off in Asia because of it.

Now where did I say that we should not try to eradicate it? But trying to explain the fall-off in boxing due to the shadiness that exists in the sport is drawing a very fucken long bow.

And if you think cycling and the Olympics is having success in controlling doping by athletes I'd also suggest you put an empty sack by the fireplace at Christmas because you expect Santa to come down the chimney and fill it with presents.

Thankyou.

I'd rather you try it without the current control in place. It is not by any means perfect (the current level of control,) but it serves as deterrent at least to the casual doper. If you fail to appreciate that much then I'm afraid you won't find much comfort anywhere.

P34c3

In professional sports, particularly the ones mentioned such as cycling, Olympics etc I don't think you'll find a 'casual doper.' Seriously. What a redundant reply.

You're increasingly narrowing your perception of what is acceptable to you as incremental gain that is being made in attempts at controlling the problem, while tending to think you know it all and condemning available, even if imperfect, solutions that are still evolving. Unfortunately for mankind, you can't proffer any alternatives other than to bicker. If you judge my reply as redundant, it's easy for me to see you as a hardliner.

P34c3

Holy fuck I didn't realise I was having a debate with Mother Theresa Well shoot if the fate of mankind rests on it then full steam ahead I say!

Again try reading my post. Where do I condemn testing? All I say is that you might as well be realistic that for the forseeable future it is highly unlikely that testing will keep up with cheating. The cheats consistently evolve and it's all the agencies can do to keep up. Personally I think Floyd asking for testing during training for his fight with Pac is so irrelevant it isn't even a grain of sand on the beach. To me it isn't even an attempt to clean up the sport. It's a joke.

If you are going to get serious then you have to throw a whole lot more money and time at all sports than is currently being done. And frankly I think the big business that is behind most profesional sports don't want that to happen. Let's face it, it's exciting to watch Usain Bolt run at the speeds he does. Do you really think TV companies and networks want that kind of action to be shut down?

Just being real bro. Not condeming nothing.

listen up, round rascal. anti-doping was never seen as a joke it's just been getting better and better over the years. after the BALCO scandal they really cracked down on it. that and there are international committees handling the testing you're talking about and there's no national or international boxing commission. Mayweather is saying no testing no fight and the commissions don't support it enough to get behind it. as it's he's only getting opponents tested and isn't putting any real effort in to completely revamp drug testing in boxing. it's a gimmick that will be over within the next 5 years.

where did i say Mayweather is omnipresent? i said he's the only one trying to change testing and he's not even serious about it

I'm really liking this place lately, it's starting to look like a jungle here. Reminds me of the old days. Dudes like Doodoo and eightyeight8,888,888eightyeight, while not approaching Reg_One levels of awesomeness ("And what planet were you on Shirley, when Forrest KTFO Shane Mosely!" ), are still pretty entertaining nevertheless.