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Cshel86
Being "undefeated" nowadays is no longer an effective promotional device (in my opinion). There is only one flashy undefeated guy out there, and we know who he is. He effectively used it for promotional purposes, but this is the LAST time, and I repeat, the LAST time I want to hear a fighter bragging about being undefeated, especially if:
1. You dont have enough personality to save your life or keep me awake while watching your interviews (or lack there of)
2. You cant put asses in seats (other than your family members, training team, and entourage)
3. Your ring appeal is sub-par or I know for a fact that I will have to be drunk in order to sit through one of your fights
4. You feel that the world owes you something because you're undefeated

When I hear about a young "undefeated" prospect, I find it hard to hold down breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The only undefeated fighters that I care about are the ones who dont care about losing their '0'.

Thoughts?
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 31 2011, 07:47 AM) *
Being "undefeated" nowadays is no longer an effective promotional device (in my opinion). There is only one flashy undefeated guy out there, and we know who he is. He effectively used it for promotional purposes, but this is the LAST time, and I repeat, the LAST time I want to hear a fighter bragging about being undefeated, especially if:
1. You dont have enough personality to save your life or keep me awake while watching your interviews (or lack there of)
2. You cant put asses in seats (other than your family members, training team, and entourage)
3. Your ring appeal is sub-par or I know for a fact that I will have to be drunk in order to sit through one of your fights
4. You feel that the world owes you something because you're undefeated

When I hear about a young "undefeated" prospect, I find it hard to hold down breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The only undefeated fighters that I care about are the ones who dont care about losing their '0'.

Thoughts?

That bar is a tad high, but I agree with your general sentiments.

Good post.
Cshel86
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 31 2011, 10:59 AM) *
That bar is a tad high, but I agree with your general sentiments.

Good post.

Yeah, I guess they have to lose that goose egg and then go on a manic conquest in all hopes of not getting their asses kicked again.
Seek
Man Canelo is one massive dude and I like his work ethic recently. Definitely going to be a huge star in boxing. The general public outside of his mexican fanbase are catching on. I hope they put him in there with a real challenge his next fight though. It's time for the test baby
daprofessor
let's be honest....tv doesn't care about fighters without the '0' lose the '0' and watch ur money get cut in half. it may not mean much to average fans...but for the guys training hard everyday...dedicating themselves to their craft....all the sacrifices and discipline...that '0' means the world. all the best have lost their '0' at some point...but NOT losing it is what pushed them to the highest heights.

sugar ray robinson was undefeated in the amateurs and had about 70 fights before his first loss to jake lamotta.

roberto duran had about 42 fights before he lost his '0' he went on to win approximately 30 something more before he lost to leonard in their rematch.

the list of fighters who have made it to 40 wins with no losses is a very short one.
Eighty88Eight
what matters is who you fight. if you're fighting good competition while remaining undefeated... you've really done something
daprofessor
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 31 2011, 02:37 PM) *
what matters is who you fight. if you're fighting good competition while remaining undefeated... you've really done something


how does one measure "good competition?"
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 02:33 PM) *
let's be honest....tv doesn't care about fighters without the '0' lose the '0' and watch ur money get cut in half. it may not mean much to average fans...but for the guys training hard everyday...dedicating themselves to their craft....all the sacrifices and discipline...that '0' means the world. all the best have lost their '0' at some point...but NOT losing it is what pushed them to the highest heights.

sugar ray robinson was undefeated in the amateurs and had about 70 fights before his first loss to jake lamotta.

roberto duran had about 42 fights before he lost his '0' he went on to win approximately 30 something more before he lost to leonard in their rematch.

the list of fighters who have made it to 40 wins with no losses is a very short one.

You have mentioned GREAT fighters that were undefeated at that time prior to their loss. We have been blessed with the undefeated fighters who THINK they are the greatest ever. You should carry yourself in this manner at all times, but to not even live up to the reputation of being the best is simply unacceptable. Sure that '0' motivates a fighter to train hard, but if they continue to duck the best in exchange for fighting tomato cans to keep that '0'...then their confidence and security will always be questioned.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 02:51 PM) *
how does one measure "good competition?"


is floyd mayweather a good fighter?
Eighty88Eight
Robinson was 40-0 until his first lost. not no 70-0.
daprofessor
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 31 2011, 02:51 PM) *
You have mentioned GREAT fighters that were undefeated at that time prior to their loss. We have been blessed with the undefeated fighters who THINK they are the greatest ever. You should carry yourself in this manner at all times, but to not even live up to the reputation of being the best is simply unacceptable. Sure that '0' motivates a fighter to train hard, but if they continue to duck the best in exchange for fighting tomato cans to keep that '0'...then their confidence and security will always be questioned.


boxing is a business. sometimes fights do not materialize...for what ever reason, but i don't know that i can hold a fighter responsible for that every single time. sometimes promoters and managers won't allow their fighters to fight other tough/slick fighters...(*see bob arum) other times there just isn't any competition available (*see klitschkos or marciano) so all we have to go off is their accomplishments and how they performed against known fighters. it's great when all the planets align...and we get the big fights, but i won't lose any sleep over a guy claiming to be the best if i don't believe he is the best.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 31 2011, 02:56 PM) *
Robinson was 40-0 until his first lost. not no 70-0.


i was counting his amateur fights. that's why i mentioned them.
Crafty
I agree completely and I've been saying it for years. As a boxing community we should be putting less emphasis on an undefeated record, and more emphasis on big wins. Nowadays its better to keep your undefeated record by fighting bums than it is to step up against a legitimate opponent and lose, and that's BS. With MMA, and hardly any fighter going undefeated, I think this focus on undefeated records will slowly fade.
Eighty88Eight
i dont like this bullshit about devaluing victory. fuck that. if im rooting for you, you better win or die, motherfucker. i don't like that clown bullshit in MMA, they can have a hundred losses if they want, but this is boxing. Be the best in every fight you fight in, dummy. It's not ok to lose. Who do we give a shit about in boxing that's undefeated but hasn't fought anyone? Nobody. If somebody is trying to make an irrational argument about a fighter being better based on his undefeated record, don't engage in it. He's beneath ones intellectual capacities.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 31 2011, 03:13 PM) *
i dont like this bullshit about devaluing victory. fuck that. if im rooting for you, you better win or die, motherfucker. i don't like that clown bullshit in MMA, they can have a hundred losses if they want, but this is boxing. Be the best in every fight you fight in, dummy. It's not ok to lose. Who do we give a shit about in boxing that's undefeated but hasn't fought anyone? Nobody. If somebody is trying to make an irrational argument about a fighter being better based on his undefeated record, don't engage in it. He's beneath ones intellectual capacities.


totally agree. most knowledgeable fans are not fooled by undefeated records with no real comp.
Eighty88Eight
damn, i sound really angry in that post. that's one fire breathing fuck right there. im ok. i just need a hug. where's my wife?
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 02:57 PM) *
boxing is a business. sometimes fights do not materialize...for what ever reason, but i don't know that i can hold a fighter responsible for that every single time. sometimes promoters and managers won't allow their fighters to fight other tough/slick fighters...(*see bob arum) other times there just isn't any competition available (*see klitschkos or marciano) so all we have to go off is their accomplishments and how they performed against known fighters. it's great when all the planets align...and we get the big fights, but i won't lose any sleep over a guy claiming to be the best if i don't believe he is the best.

Yeah I understand that portion of it...guess Im just through with new fighters attempting to use their "undefeated" record as a freakin' gate key to Utopia, when that method has been drilled into our heads by none other than you know who...
gravytrain
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 02:57 PM) *
boxing is a business. sometimes fights do not materialize...for what ever reason, but i don't know that i can hold a fighter responsible for that every single time. sometimes promoters and managers won't allow their fighters to fight other tough/slick fighters...(*see bob arum) other times there just isn't any competition available (*see klitschkos or marciano) so all we have to go off is their accomplishments and how they performed against known fighters. it's great when all the planets align...and we get the big fights, but i won't lose any sleep over a guy claiming to be the best if i don't believe he is the best.


fighters have been ducking opponents since the days of Jack Johnson but it's much worse than it's ever been. DLH took a lot of tough fights and didn't win all of them, his successor on the other hand has been a lot more careful in his choice of opponents. trying to say it's just Bob Arum is completely overlooking the era of boxing after DLH. and as it's there's no telling whether or not the top earner will continue to fight the rising star, the transition could be more like Pac filling the void Mayweather left.

boxing has always been a business but at one time it's also a legitimate sport. it's been drifting more and more towards sports entertainment over the years and it isn't by chance.
Crafty
We need more fight bonuses after the fact, so there will be more entertaining fights. In the UFC, a fighter can double his pay by having KO of the night, and fight of the night. Boxing needs something like this.
daprofessor
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 31 2011, 05:03 PM) *
Yeah I understand that portion of it...guess Im just through with new fighters attempting to use their "undefeated" record as a freakin' gate key to Utopia, when that method has been drilled into our heads by none other than you know who...


i think some ppl take what 'u know who' says too seriously. i think part of it is him trying to convince himself.
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 05:22 PM) *
fighters have been ducking opponents since the days of Jack Johnson but it's much worse than it's ever been. DLH took a lot of tough fights and didn't win all of them, his successor on the other hand has been a lot more careful in his choice of opponents. trying to say it's just Bob Arum is completely overlooking the era of boxing after DLH. and as it's there's no telling whether or not the top earner will continue to fight the rising star, the transition could be more like Pac filling the void Mayweather left.

boxing has always been a business but at one time it's also a legitimate sport. it's been drifting more and more towards sports entertainment over the years and it isn't by chance.


dlh, floyd and pac all have one thing in common......bob arum.

dlh's career was carefully planned just like pac's and floyds. no one gets to the top without careful planning.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Crafty @ Aug 31 2011, 05:24 PM) *
We need more fight bonuses after the fact, so there will be more entertaining fights. In the UFC, a fighter can double his pay by having KO of the night, and fight of the night. Boxing needs something like this.


boxing has had this in the amateurs forever.....i agree, they need to do it in the pros.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Crafty @ Aug 31 2011, 05:24 PM) *
We need more fight bonuses after the fact, so there will be more entertaining fights. In the UFC, a fighter can double his pay by having KO of the night, and fight of the night. Boxing needs something like this.


what for? if you've entertaining fights in boxing you can get more dates and make more money. that should be enough motivation. and if you aren't entertaining you can just hire Al Haymon.
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 05:32 PM) *
what for? if you've entertaining fights in boxing you can get more dates and make more money. that should be enough motivation. and if you aren't entertaining you can just hire Al Haymon.


al haymon hate on this board too? laugh.gif


johnnyblaze
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 05:32 PM) *
what for? if you've entertaining fights in boxing you can get more dates and make more money. that should be enough motivation. and if you aren't entertaining you can just hire Al Haymon.

thumbsup_anim.gif

Unless you're white.
Crafty
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 05:32 PM) *
what for? if you've entertaining fights in boxing you can get more dates and make more money. that should be enough motivation. and if you aren't entertaining you can just hire Al Haymon.


Well it prevents boring fighters like Bhop winning boring decision after boring decision, just to keep winning. Then people want to watch him fight just to see if he loses. It reminds me of his head to head with Jean Pascal screaming "For me it's all about the W!" But what he doesn't realize is that there are some fighters out there who actually want to please the fans with a good fight.

This might prevent some fighters from just trying to win boring decisions to stay undefeated and relevant. Honestly, having another payday in the future doesn't always come into play when they are already making big bucks for that apperance. Look at David Haye, cashed out and ready to retire.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (Crafty @ Aug 31 2011, 05:42 PM) *
Well it prevents boring fighters like Bhop winning boring decision after boring decision, just to keep winning. Then people want to watch him fight just to see if he loses. It reminds me of his head to head with Jean Pascal screaming "For me it's all about the W!" But what he doesn't realize is that there are some fighters out there who actually want to please the fans with a good fight.

This might prevent some fighters from just trying to win boring decisions to stay undefeated and relevant. Honestly, having another payday in the future doesn't always come into play when they are already making big bucks for that apperance. Look at David Haye, cashed out and ready to retire.


none of what you said obliges you to watch those fighters. last time i checked, david haye and bernard hopkins were two of the biggest names in the sport. Sports aren't about pleasing all fans, and the dull/mediocre fights make the pleasure and thrill of a great fight all the more memorable.
gravytrain
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 05:29 PM) *
dlh, floyd and pac all have one thing in common......bob arum.

dlh's career was carefully planned just like pac's and floyds. no one gets to the top without careful planning.


DLH left TR in 2001. what about the fights after that? as the top earner he took on tough opposition on a regular basis. Mayweather never fought a lightweight at welterweight without even making the catchweight with Arum either.

Fitz
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 1 2011, 07:29 AM) *
dlh, floyd and pac all have one thing in common......bob arum.

dlh's career was carefully planned just like pac's and floyds. no one gets to the top without careful planning.


DLH took many more risks in the ring, that shouldn't be up for debate.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 31 2011, 05:48 PM) *
none of what you said obliges you to watch those fighters. last time i checked, david haye and bernard hopkins were two of the biggest names in the sport. Sports aren't about pleasing all fans, and the dull/mediocre fights make the pleasure and thrill of a great fight all the more memorable.


well said. also, let's not pretend guys like bhop would ever get the time of day if he wasn't winning. he has to win to stay relevant....otherwise ppl will use excuses like, he doesn't draw....or who has he beat...blah,blah,blah...
gravytrain
QUOTE (Crafty @ Aug 31 2011, 05:42 PM) *
Well it prevents boring fighters like Bhop winning boring decision after boring decision, just to keep winning. Then people want to watch him fight just to see if he loses. It reminds me of his head to head with Jean Pascal screaming "For me it's all about the W!" But what he doesn't realize is that there are some fighters out there who actually want to please the fans with a good fight.

This might prevent some fighters from just trying to win boring decisions to stay undefeated and relevant. Honestly, having another payday in the future doesn't always come into play when they are already making big bucks for that apperance. Look at David Haye, cashed out and ready to retire.


if you want to see some fighters with no skill slug it out go watch Silver Gloves. decisions are part of boxing. if the fighter isn't running and putting in a noneffort i can't really see what the problem is. i really can't see the similarity between Hopkins vs Pascal and Wlad vs Haye either, Hopkins fought a good fight. he showed great footwork, feints, angles and use of the jab.
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 05:53 PM) *
DLH left TR in 2001. what about the fights after that? as the top earner he took on tough opposition on a regular basis. Mayweather never fought a lightweight at welterweight without even making the catchweight with Arum either.


neither guy would be in the position they're in without top rank or their great matchmakers.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 31 2011, 05:58 PM) *
DLH took many more risks in the ring, that shouldn't be up for debate.


running from trinidad in the closing round is a good example of the kind of risk he took.

his whole career with arum was all about favorable match ups. i like the guy...and he won when he was supposed to for the most part, but how many times was he not favored to win?
gravytrain
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 06:07 PM) *
running from trinidad in the closing round is a good example of the kind of risk he took.

his whole career with arum was all about favorable match ups. i like the guy...and he won when he was supposed to for the most part, but how many times was he not favored to win?


Berto vs Hernandez is a favorable match up, DLH vs Whitaker is a tough fight. there will always be a favorite in a fight or game but there are upsets too. his career after Top Rank has been much better than Mayweather or Pac's career as a top earner.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 06:05 PM) *
neither guy would be in the position they're in without top rank or their great matchmakers.


so are you saying Mayweather is just a product of careful matchmaking?
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 06:23 PM) *
Berto vs Hernandez is a favorable match up, DLH vs Whitaker is a tough fight. there will always be a favorite in a fight or game but there are upsets too. his career after Top Rank has been much better than Mayweather or Pac's career as a top earner.



so are you saying Mayweather is just a product of careful matchmaking?


berto/hernandez = dlh/charpentier

absolutely. any fighter that gets to the top is a product of careful matchmaking. these things don't happen by accident.
Fitz
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 1 2011, 08:07 AM) *
running from trinidad in the closing round is a good example of the kind of risk he took.

his whole career with arum was all about favorable match ups. i like the guy...and he won when he was supposed to for the most part, but how many times was he not favored to win?


Basing not even 1/4 of a fight to sum up his career. Not very smart.

His list of opponents is far superior than the fighters you mentioned, and quite comfortably.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 31 2011, 06:50 PM) *
Basing not even 1/4 of a fight to sum up his career. Not very smart.

His list of opponents is far superior than the fighters you mentioned, and quite comfortably.


trinidad? i don't think so. dlh's biggest win came against vargas...a guy trinidad beat first. actually...if u look at their records u'll see that trinidad beat more undefeated fighters and also beat a few of them before dlh did.
Fitz
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 1 2011, 08:55 AM) *
trinidad? i don't think so. dlh's biggest win came against vargas...a guy trinidad beat first. actually...if u look at their records u'll see that trinidad beat more undefeated fighters and also beat a few of them before dlh did.


You weren't comparing him to Trinidad, so not sure why you're bringing this up. I thought you were comparing the fights he took compared to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Why are you talking about Trinidad now?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 31 2011, 07:24 PM) *
You weren't comparing him to Trinidad, so not sure why you're bringing this up. I thought you were comparing the fights he took compared to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Why are you talking about Trinidad now?


u said 'the fighters u mentioned'....and trinidad is the guy i mentioned in the post u quoted.
SmartyBeardo
Who's on 1st?
gravytrain
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 06:31 PM) *
berto/hernandez = dlh/charpentier

absolutely. any fighter that gets to the top is a product of careful matchmaking. these things don't happen by accident.


Berto's career = DLH/Charpentier

if you don't think any of them have had tough fights i've my doubts as to if you actually follow boxing or not. i don't think they'd JCC or Whitaker like opponents but Mayweather and Pac did have some nice fights below 140. DLH just continued it up through the classes and his career. and he's the last PPV star to do it. what i really don't see is how Arum is solely responsible for careful matchmaking in boxing when GBP/Mayweather have done the same or worse.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 31 2011, 09:47 AM) *
Being "undefeated" nowadays is no longer an effective promotional device (in my opinion). There is only one flashy undefeated guy out there, and we know who he is. He effectively used it for promotional purposes, but this is the LAST time, and I repeat, the LAST time I want to hear a fighter bragging about being undefeated, especially if:
1. You dont have enough personality to save your life or keep me awake while watching your interviews (or lack there of)
2. You cant put asses in seats (other than your family members, training team, and entourage)
3. Your ring appeal is sub-par or I know for a fact that I will have to be drunk in order to sit through one of your fights
4. You feel that the world owes you something because you're undefeated

When I hear about a young "undefeated" prospect, I find it hard to hold down breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The only undefeated fighters that I care about are the ones who dont care about losing their '0'.

Thoughts?


i could be wrong but the "0" has never mattered... promoters use that "0" to build fighters and to TRY to make them into pay per view attractions etc... true boxingfans know who is who and of what goods... gatti didnt have an "0"... hoya lost his "0"... the list goes on and on... but those two just to name a couple where very solid fight attractions... the "0" dont mean jack at the end of the day if nobody wants to watch you fight...
blackbelt2003
Some fighters like Calzaghe and Bradley have based their whole career around the '0'. Their actual achievements are pretty slim on the ground compared to the reps they built on the back of those '0's.



Generally, the '0' will be seen through, but sometimes we carried away with a big, fat '0' and forget everything else. I'd much rather a nice '1' or '2' on the end of a record and plenty of substance hidden in the '40' or '50' at the start of it.



Black
streetlion1
DLH fought much tougher fights than Mayweather and Pacquiao....enough said.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 31 2011, 10:10 PM) *
Plural. Fighter's. We were talking about him taking more risks than Mayweather and Pacquiao with the fights he took. I just said that not even a 1/4 of the fight doesn't sum up his career.


i don't know that i totally agree with that. what was the biggest risk oscar took?
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 11:19 PM) *
Berto's career = DLH/Charpentier

if you don't think any of them have had tough fights i've my doubts as to if you actually follow boxing or not. i don't think they'd JCC or Whitaker like opponents but Mayweather and Pac did have some nice fights below 140. DLH just continued it up through the classes and his career. and he's the last PPV star to do it. what i really don't see is how Arum is solely responsible for careful matchmaking in boxing when GBP/Mayweather have done the same or worse.


i never said they didn't have tough fights. there's no such thing as an easy fight imo.

gbp/mayweather were built by arum and his matchmakers. they would not be where they are without them. neither gbp nor mayweather has built anyone (as promoters) close to the level of success that they both had with arum. if u can't understand this...i can't make u.

jcc was past his best when oscar fought him. i thought whitaker beat him. berto isn't on the level of dlh, pac or mayweather. ppv is bad for boxing...so being a ppv star really means absolutely nothing to me. but since u brought it up....berto isn't a ppv star, so he shouldn't be held to the same standard as dlh or floyd. someone in this thread said haymon's fighters are boring....but i'll just point out that berto/ortiz is fight of the year so far in my book. and let's not forget williams/martinez 1 was a candidate for fight of the year. williams/martinez 2 was ko of the year. arreolla, another haymon fighter, has been in some pretty exciting scraps himself.
jlupi
i don't like that clown bullshit in MMA, they can have a hundred losses if they want, but this is boxing. Be the best in every fight you fight in, dummy. It's not ok to lose. >>>>>


the mma "bullshit" is more reality based. Anyone can have a bad day. If your matched correctly (by my standards) their would be few if any undefeated fighters probably inc FMJ. And that would not take away from his or any boxers greatness. In fact it would add to it if they were matched tough every time out.

That's not going to happen and thats why boxings days are looking more numbeed every year.
gravytrain
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 1 2011, 01:49 PM) *
i never said they didn't have tough fights. there's no such thing as an easy fight imo.

gbp/mayweather were built by arum and his matchmakers. they would not be where they are without them. neither gbp nor mayweather has built anyone (as promoters) close to the level of success that they both had with arum. if u can't understand this...i can't make u.

jcc was past his best when oscar fought him. i thought whitaker beat him. berto isn't on the level of dlh, pac or mayweather. ppv is bad for boxing...so being a ppv star really means absolutely nothing to me. but since u brought it up....berto isn't a ppv star, so he shouldn't be held to the same standard as dlh or floyd. someone in this thread said haymon's fighters are boring....but i'll just point out that berto/ortiz is fight of the year so far in my book. and let's not forget williams/martinez 1 was a candidate for fight of the year. williams/martinez 2 was ko of the year. arreolla, another haymon fighter, has been in some pretty exciting scraps himself.


how did Arum build DLH? he could have been a star with anyone. Arum probably just gave him a duffel bag with more money than what King wanted to offer him. it's not like he didn't come into boxing an Olympic gold medalist and being one of the most marketable fighters of the last 30 years. DLH was more successful with his own company too, he got more PPV buys and more PPV revenue. he'd less PPVs on his own too.

i brought up Berto to show safe matchmaking. DLH has bigger names than Pac and Mayweather on his resume and that's throughout his career. the whole point is that Mayweather and Pac take easier fights than other PPV fighters and DLH was the last one to consistently take on the top opposition. there's a big difference between winning fights and being a product of careful matchmaking too.
daprofessor
the funny thing is how dismissive fans are of a '0'....they've probably never fought a day in their lives. even as an amateur...against a bunch of 'nobodies' it's extremely difficult to remain undefeated. truth is...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EASY FIGHT. it takes extreme focus and dedication to stay on top...and undefeated...even against 2nd rate opponents.

that '0' has much more meaning to ppl who truly know how difficult it is to hold on to it. the ones that have it strive for excellence and have a burning desire to want to be nothing but the best. there are no parades for second best.
daprofessor
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 1 2011, 05:14 PM) *
how did Arum build DLH? he could have been a star with anyone. Arum probably just gave him a duffel bag with more money than what King wanted to offer him. it's not like he didn't come into boxing an Olympic gold medalist and being one of the most marketable fighters of the last 30 years. DLH was more successful with his own company too, he got more PPV buys and more PPV revenue. he'd less PPVs on his own too.

i brought up Berto to show safe matchmaking. DLH has bigger names than Pac and Mayweather on his resume and that's throughout his career. the whole point is that Mayweather and Pac take easier fights than other PPV fighters and DLH was the last one to consistently take on the top opposition. there's a big difference between winning fights and being a product of careful matchmaking too.


oscar's resume is filled with big names that were past their primes and above their best weight classes. for the most part....like i said before he did a great job of beating the guys they put in front of him...but he was favored to beat those guys. meaning...they picked the opponents because they knew he had the advantages and tools to beat them. when he stepped up the comp...he usually lost. great career...but he never won the big one.

ppv buys are a great measure of popularity....and a good way for fighters and promoters to make money but they are not a true measure of a fighters greatness in the ring. the only thing that u can measure a fighters greatness in the ring with are "W's"
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