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JONdaCON817
What if we are wrong about the upcoming Marquez vs Pacquiao fight? What if he REALLY DOES have Pacquiaos number? Can he pull off an upset in a year filled with bad calls? Does the Loss hurt Pacs legacy?

and if Victor Ortiz puts up a decent scrap, is he inline for a Pac payday? and if so, how does the young Gun fair against Pacman?...



lets read your thoughts.
HazConvictedFelonMane
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Sep 2 2011, 04:27 PM) *
What if we are wrong about the upcoming Marquez vs Pacquiao fight? What if he REALLY DOES have Pacquiaos number? Can he pull off an upset in a year filled with bad calls? Does the Loss hurt Pacs legacy?

and if Victor Ortiz puts up a decent scrap, is he inline for a Pac payday? and if so, how does the young Gun fair against Pacman?...


What? Are you saying if Ortiz just 'puts up a good scrap' or KO's (or decisions) FMJ? Are you asking what if Pac and Ortiz are the losers of their fights, how would a fight between the 2 of them go? I just want to be clear on the topic.
lets read your thoughts.

EAlbian
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Sep 2 2011, 03:27 PM) *
What if we are wrong about the upcoming Marquez vs Pacquiao fight? What if he REALLY DOES have Pacquiaos number? Can he pull off an upset in a year filled with bad calls? Does the Loss hurt Pacs legacy?

and if Victor Ortiz puts up a decent scrap, is he inline for a Pac payday? and if so, how does the young Gun fair against Pacman?...



lets read your thoughts.



We have all seen crazier things happen. I really wish this fight was @140 because i believe that could make it 10x more competitive. If i were Marquez i would come in @139-141 range come fight night. Nacho said today that they have to weather the early Pac onslaught and if they can make it out of the first 4 rounds with out sustaining too much damage they can win the fight. I don't think it hurts Pacs legacy i think it just brings it back to reality, he's done so much recently that its overwhelming to take in. I think a loss here grounds him and takes him out of any talks of top 10 ATGs(I personally dont see him in the discussion above 20 but a Floyd win would have him knocking at the doors of possible single digits). I don't see Marguez having what it takes to beat Manny at this point but thats not what this thread is about so WAR Marquez

Ortiz vs Pac i think is a very good fight, finally you have a legit strong 147lber with some speed. Regardless of the outcome I'd like to see that fight next year or so. I think its a battle to see if Pac can hold up(Margs hurt him) but i see Pac hurting and stopping Ortiz against the ropes similar to what Berto did in the 6th rd but finishing the job
HazConvictedFelonMane
If we're wrong about Pacquiao and he loses to Marquez, the world would not be shocked because Marquez, many observers, and fans feel as if Pacquiao lost the 2nd fight. If Ortiz gets his ass kicked, no one will be surprised. We know that FMJ is the best. At 34, he's preserved himself in a way where he is still fresh. He is fresher than the others. Fresher with more intelligence, speed, and natural talent that he will prevail. Both Pacquiao and Ortiz have shown 'quit' in them. Mayweather has shown no 'quit' even when he had an injury during the 1st Castillo fight. That's better than we can say for the guys who claim he's 'not that good' or that 'he's terrified of losing'.
gravytrain
i don't think Marquez will get any favors in a Pac fight. Arum wouldn't let that happen. i don't think this is that bad of a fight but a welterweight shouldn't fight someone 2 divisions down whether they've a history with them or not. i would expect to see Marquez lose by controversial stoppage before i see him getting a gift from a judge.

i think Pac has been backing off in fights so i don't know if i'll put something on Marquez getting stopped. i don't expect Marquez to win many rounds though, he'll stand with Pac looking to counter but eat lefts all night long.
Crafty
I think Ortiz has the better chance of pulling off the upset. I don't see how Marquez puts up a better fight this time around. He's older, and Pacman's stronger.

And Pac vs Ortiz would not last long. Ortiz would be KO'd within 5.
daprofessor
convential wisdom (whatever that is...) tells us that floyd and pac should win. i love rooting for the underdogs in most situations. i have no money riding on either fight so i will enjoy them both....no matter who wins. but if they did win...that opens the flood gates for a lot of other great fights happening.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Although I do think Ortiz has the better chance of pulling the upset off, I'd never count Marquez out. Marquez is an elite fighter, and is being slightly underrated going into this fight. He's handled Pacquiao twice in my opinion, and I think he deserved the nod in both matches. The only issues going into this fight is the weight. However, I don't know if that will be as huge an issues as when Marquez fought Mayweather. Mayweather has fought legitimately at 154 before, while Pacquiao struggles just to get to 150. Realistically, Pac is a natural jr. welterweight. He'll be a bigger man, but this fight will be competitive. Marquez still has those skills, and his style is wrong from Pac.
mgrover
maybe a rematch with mayweather
thehype
If Marquez is even remotely competitive for 6 rounds, I don't even want to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will blast him out of there in 5 rounds tops.
EAlbian
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Sep 2 2011, 04:39 PM) *
Although I do think Ortiz has the better chance of pulling the upset off, I'd never count Marquez out. Marquez is an elite fighter, and is being slightly underrated going into this fight. He's handled Pacquiao twice in my opinion, and I think he deserved the nod in both matches. The only issues going into this fight is the weight. However, I don't know if that will be as huge an issues as when Marquez fought Mayweather. Mayweather has fought legitimately at 154 before, while Pacquiao struggles just to get to 150. Realistically, Pac is a natural jr. welterweight. He'll be a bigger man, but this fight will be competitive. Marquez still has those skills, and his style is wrong from Pac.


Floyd weighed 150 for his fight against De La Hoya, 150 with clothes on on HBO's unofficial scale. he claims he was 148 only fight night
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Good call EA...Typed my post without looking that up. Either way, I still think Mayweather is a much better boxer than Pacquiao. Styles make fights, and I think Marquez's styles will always give Pac problems.
checkleft
I think even marquez knows he's going to lose. If he didn't believe he was going to lose than why fix his tune up fight in what was one of the worst acting jobs I've seen. He's more than likely cashing out and retiring, not that he doesn't deserve it. Hes one of the most underratted Mexican boxing great's.
EAlbian
QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 2 2011, 05:21 PM) *
I think even marquez knows he's going to lose. If he didn't believe he was going to lose than why fix his tune up fight in what was one of the worst acting jobs I've seen. He's more than likely cashing out and retiring, not that he doesn't deserve it. Hes one of the most underratted Mexican boxing great's.


yep Marquez fixed that fight all himself..... Now he's going into a fight he's been calling for for the last 5 years with surefire doubt in his mind ... Its not at all like he believed he won the first two... seems right to me
sduck
I think people give Pacquiao too much credit lol. Or maybe not giving Marquez enough credit. I guarantee you it will go the distance. Marquez will get knocked down once or twice, he does in a lot of fights, but he has a solid chin, and has never been stopped. I think people are being blinded by how easily Marquez was dominated by Mayweather. You can blame the weight, and I don't know if it's genuine or only modesty, but Marquez thinks Mayweather is the best, because he's difficult and intelligent. While he finds Pacquiao lacks technique. Marquez knows how to fight Pacquiao, he showed improvement from the first bought, and I like many others think he beat Pacquiao the second bought. Marquez has been begging for this fight for years. With everything said, I do favor Pacquiao to win this one somehow, but I'm sure it will go to a decision, or at least go further than a lot of people are expecting.

QUOTE (HazConvictedFelonMane @ Sep 2 2011, 04:55 PM) *
If we're wrong about Pacquiao and he loses to Marquez, the world would not be shocked because Marquez, many observers, and fans feel as if Pacquiao lost the 2nd fight. If Ortiz gets his ass kicked, no one will be surprised. We know that FMJ is the best. At 34, he's preserved himself in a way where he is still fresh. He is fresher than the others. Fresher with more intelligence, speed, and natural talent that he will prevail. Both Pacquiao and Ortiz have shown 'quit' in them. Mayweather has shown no 'quit' even when he had an injury during the 1st Castillo fight. That's better than we can say for the guys who claim he's 'not that good' or that 'he's terrified of losing'.

When has Pacquiao showed "quit" in him?
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Sep 2 2011, 03:51 PM) *
We have all seen crazier things happen. I really wish this fight was @140 because i believe that could make it 10x more competitive. If i were Marquez i would come in @139-141 range come fight night. Nacho said today that they have to weather the early Pac onslaught and if they can make it out of the first 4 rounds with out sustaining too much damage they can win the fight. I don't think it hurts Pacs legacy i think it just brings it back to reality, he's done so much recently that its overwhelming to take in. I think a loss here grounds him and takes him out of any talks of top 10 ATGs(I personally dont see him in the discussion above 20 but a Floyd win would have him knocking at the doors of possible single digits). I don't see Marguez having what it takes to beat Manny at this point but thats not what this thread is about so WAR Marquez

Ortiz vs Pac i think is a very good fight, finally you have a legit strong 147lber with some speed. Regardless of the outcome I'd like to see that fight next year or so. I think its a battle to see if Pac can hold up(Margs hurt him) but i see Pac hurting and stopping Ortiz against the ropes similar to what Berto did in the 6th rd but finishing the job


Nice Post!! i deff agree with most everything you said. marquez should come in alot more "natural" and not be too heavy and slow. WAR MARQUEZ is right!!!... ide love to see Ortiz and Pac.. those two have similarities in style IMO. both southpaw, both quicc and with power.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (HazConvictedFelonMane @ Sep 2 2011, 03:55 PM) *
If we're wrong about Pacquiao and he loses to Marquez, the world would not be shocked because Marquez, many observers, and fans feel as if Pacquiao lost the 2nd fight. If Ortiz gets his ass kicked, no one will be surprised. We know that FMJ is the best. At 34, he's preserved himself in a way where he is still fresh. He is fresher than the others. Fresher with more intelligence, speed, and natural talent that he will prevail. Both Pacquiao and Ortiz have shown 'quit' in them. Mayweather has shown no 'quit' even when he had an injury during the 1st Castillo fight. That's better than we can say for the guys who claim he's 'not that good' or that 'he's terrified of losing'.


yeaa deff. and thats the only thing that make me think Marquez has a chance... if Pac cant finish and the fight is close, the judges may award Marquez with a Victory if they feel he deserves one, or was robbed in one, if not both of their earlier contests.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 3 2011, 11:42 AM) *
I think people give Pacquiao too much credit lol. Or maybe not giving Marquez enough credit. I guarantee you it will go the distance. Marquez will get knocked down once or twice, he does in a lot of fights, but he has a solid chin, and has never been stopped. I think people are being blinded by how easily Marquez was dominated by Mayweather. You can blame the weight, and I don't know if it's genuine or only modesty, but Marquez thinks Mayweather is the best, because he's difficult and intelligent. While he finds Pacquiao lacks technique. Marquez knows how to fight Pacquiao, he showed improvement from the first bought, and I like many others think he beat Pacquiao the second bought. Marquez has been begging for this fight for years. With everything said, I do favor Pacquiao to win this one somehow, but I'm sure it will go to a decision, or at least go further than a lot of people are expecting.


When has Pacquiao showed "quit" in him?


I was thinking the same thing.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 2 2011, 04:53 PM) *
If Marquez is even remotely competitive for 6 rounds, I don't even want to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will blast him out of there in 5 rounds tops.


is him refering to Marquez or Mayweather?
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 2 2011, 05:21 PM) *
I think even marquez knows he's going to lose. If he didn't believe he was going to lose than why fix his tune up fight in what was one of the worst acting jobs I've seen. He's more than likely cashing out and retiring, not that he doesn't deserve it. Hes one of the most underratted Mexican boxing great's.


why would he go to train in the Philipines if he wasnt serious about winning? Hell, why would he be drinkin his own piss if he knows hes gonna lose? I think Marquez really does think he has a chance. but i also feel hes gettin a well deserved CashOut payday. its a toss up. Apparently Pac isnt taking him lightly, should we?
Romulus9
I give Ortiz a better shot at being competitive with Mayweather than I give to Marquez with Pacquiao. I think Pacquiao is going to smash Marquez. Ortiz will stay in there a while, and has a chance to do some good work because, frankly, at some point this fighting once a year stuff is going to catch up with Mayweather. Will it be this time? Who knows.
Mean Mister Mustard
A lot of people talk about Marquez slowing down these past few years, but so has Pacquiao. Sure he looks fast fighting the slow Margarito and an old as hell Mosley, but Marquez but the weight that he has put on these past few years has hindered his speed a bit too. JMM meanwhile, can still counter punch as good as anyone in boxing.

Maybe Pacquiao does have more power now, and finally ends up stopping JMM, but you can bet that, for however long the fight goes, the Mexican is going to put up a hell of a fight. He still has his skills, his combinations, decent power and great conditioning to give Pacquiao a tough fight.
Cshel86
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Sep 1 2011, 01:51 PM) *
My predictions will remain solid, Ortiz and Pacquiao have the first 4 rounds to make a statement (KO), or Pacquiao will once again be faced with the remainder of those knock-down drag-out rounds that he and Marquez shared twice before. Ortiz on the other hand will be stuck dealing with 12 rounds of a "faint contest" and getting wacked with straight rights...another Mayweather/Mosley repeat. Ortiz handled Berto for the first 5 rounds and could've got him out of there before the 6th round...where Ortiz's corner was getting ready to throw in the towel when Berto landed that bomb. Up to that point, Ortiz was never confused or frustrated against Berto, but frustration will be a factor on the 17th if he doesn't send Mayweather to the moon in the early rounds.

As far as the "Big Fight" is concerned...well, Im no longer throwing my frisbee at that cross-eyed puppy. If I want to continue enjoying the sport for what it is, then it's best that I leave that subject alone.



QUOTE (EAlbian @ Sep 2 2011, 04:51 PM) *
We have all seen crazier things happen. I really wish this fight was @140 because i believe that could make it 10x more competitive. If i were Marquez i would come in @139-141 range come fight night. Nacho said today that they have to weather the early Pac onslaught and if they can make it out of the first 4 rounds with out sustaining too much damage they can win the fight. I don't think it hurts Pacs legacy i think it just brings it back to reality, he's done so much recently that its overwhelming to take in. I think a loss here grounds him and takes him out of any talks of top 10 ATGs(I personally dont see him in the discussion above 20 but a Floyd win would have him knocking at the doors of possible single digits). I don't see Marguez having what it takes to beat Manny at this point but thats not what this thread is about so WAR Marquez

Ortiz vs Pac i think is a very good fight, finally you have a legit strong 147lber with some speed. Regardless of the outcome I'd like to see that fight next year or so. I think its a battle to see if Pac can hold up(Margs hurt him) but i see Pac hurting and stopping Ortiz against the ropes similar to what Berto did in the 6th rd but finishing the job

I thought I was nearly head on with Nacho's point, based off of my observation of the first two fights. JMM got through the first round of the first fight, and he got dropped in the 3rd round of the rematch. After those knockdowns, he made the necessary adjustments and remained competitive throughout the bout. I noticed that Pac didn't have nearly as many wreckless rounds in the rematch, as he did in the first fight. In my opinion, the weight difference wont mean as much, because there was a significant difference in both of their prior bouts against eachother.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Sep 2 2011, 05:39 PM) *
Although I do think Ortiz has the better chance of pulling the upset off, I'd never count Marquez out. Marquez is an elite fighter, and is being slightly underrated going into this fight. He's handled Pacquiao twice in my opinion, and I think he deserved the nod in both matches. The only issues going into this fight is the weight. However, I don't know if that will be as huge an issues as when Marquez fought Mayweather. Mayweather has fought legitimately at 154 before, while Pacquiao struggles just to get to 150. Realistically, Pac is a natural jr. welterweight. He'll be a bigger man, but this fight will be competitive. Marquez still has those skills, and his style is wrong from Pac.

"We marked 150, and we came in at 148 tonight. So you seen a welterweight beat a Jr. Middleweight today". - Mayweather (Post-fight interview of Mayweather/De La Hoya). While people argue that Floyd should fight Martinez, it still remains to be seen if Mayweather can effectively perform at 154, let alone, make the weight. Now JMM weighing in at 144 for the Pacquiao fight could be possible at this point. He will better than he did against Floyd because Pac wont be nearly as fast and big as Mayweather was when he fought JMM. Im sure Mayweather was 160 on fight night against JMM, and fought as quick as a 130 lb Floyd.
CrazyBuffalO
Pacquiao already got knocked down (by his sparring partner) in his preparation against Mosley. Someone I know who was able to watch Pacquiao's training in Baguio City here in the Philippines told me that. Freddie Roach had to have everyone in the gym that day sign an agreement to not leak the story to outsiders at it could potentially hurt Pacquio's image.

They're here now in Manila for their promo tour (Pac and Marquez). I could care less. I'd rather watch Mayweather/Ortiz. Sept 17!!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Yea, I pointed out my error about Floyd coming in at 154. I don't why I thought he weighed 154 for that fight. Maybe the size will be too much for Marquez, since he looked terrible when he moved up against Mayweather. He's looked fine at lightweight, but I still feel he has certain advantages over Pacquiao. Overall, he's still a better technical boxer. If he can take the shots at the higher weight, then he'll make this interesting by countering Pacquiao effectively. That's what I feel won him that rematch clearly. When he boxed, he countered Pacquiao easily. However, if he gets caught up trading shots against Pac, he'll get stretched. Marquez is smart though, and he'll have a plan. Hell, maybe he can pull off a decision this time.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 2 2011, 05:53 PM) *
If Marquez is even remotely competitive for 6 rounds, I don't even want to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will blast him out of there in 5 rounds tops.


what if Mayweather struggles with Ortiz?
Method
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 2 2011, 11:59 PM) *
what if Mayweather struggles with Ortiz?

Mayweather ain't gonna struggle w Ortiz.
CrazyBuffalO
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Sep 3 2011, 11:13 AM) *
Marquez is smart though, and he'll have a plan. Hell, maybe he can pull off a decision this time.


Yeah. He's cool. He teaches math to his kid at home. He's like his child's tutor.
Especially after fighting Mayweather, he's learned a lot from that. People learn a lot from fighting Mayweather. It's like going to school (only in the ring, not in a classroom). And all that has made him a much more experienced fighter than he last faced Pacquiao.
Cshel86
QUOTE (CrazyBuffalO @ Sep 3 2011, 12:43 AM) *
Yeah. He's cool. He teaches math to his kid at home. He's like his child's tutor.
Especially after fighting Mayweather, he's learned a lot from that. People learn a lot from fighting Mayweather. It's like going to school (only in the ring, not in a classroom). And all that has made him a much more experienced fighter than he last faced Pacquiao.

Im sure he got paid pretty good too. Big paychecks make you do things that you wouldn't normally do, lol
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 2 2011, 04:53 PM) *
If Marquez is even remotely competitive for 6 rounds, I don't even want to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will blast him out of there in 5 rounds tops.


Not going to happen.

Marquez will hear the final bell...
Big Slim Sweet
I think you can pretty much look at the first two fights to get a sense for how their third will play out. Marquez DOES have a style to give Manny fits. He always will, and I don't think the weight affects that much at all. He will always win a majority of rounds against Pacquaio.

However, Manny came damn close in both fights to getting JMM out of there early. And JMM, as sharp a shooter as he remains, has become more and more hittable these past couple of years. Baby Bull shook him up early, and Katsidis nearly put him away. He's shown insane resilience, but logic says this is the fight where he goes down and finally stays down. I've got Manny by KO in the first 3 rounds.

And Ortiz' ONLY shot as Floyd is if at 34 and fighting for the first time in 16 months PBF has lost more than anyone realizes. Otherwise this should be a cake walk. Easy work, 118-110, 120-108. etc.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 3 2011, 07:47 AM) *
I'm here to lead the morning mantra . . . aohmmm . . . aohmm . . . let us all be wronnnnnnga . . . aohmm . . . aohmm . . . gather all omnipotent figmentsssa . . . give us this day the strengtha . . . to take the Ortiz/JMM parlaaaaaya . . . to have faith in our omnipotent figmentsa . . . to deliver us a pile of caaaasha . . . Aoooooooohmmmennna.


Aohmmmm.

Lol
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