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Cshel86
This old hag is no better than the son that he's trying to expose. He's butt-hurt about the 24/7 incident, now he makes it his business to put all of Jr's business out there (thats if its even true). Now if he was in control of Jr's camp, then we would not be hearing all of this hog wash from him, but now that he is at the bottom of the totem pole, he has all of the bad things in the world to say about Jr's camp. Typical Sr, always whoring for attention and gets it by any means. Nw the media can count on him to say negative things about Floyd's personal business and such. A weak ass irrelevant father, and an asshole millionaire of a son, along with an out-of-wack great trainer as an uncle...makes for the most successful dysfunctional family in boxing today! (Was that an oxymoron?)
HazConvictedFelonMane
Butt-Hurt and disgruntled. Will you improve him better with or without that 'shit in him'?
Cshel86
QUOTE (HazConvictedFelonMane @ Sep 5 2011, 09:52 AM) *
Butt-Hurt and disgruntled. Will you improve him better with or without that 'shit in him'?

laugh.gif See how quick Sr. jumped ship? Now he can improve Pacquiao all of a sudden? I see that he isn't saying it to tell people that he can beat Jr. if he trains him, but I see him trying to throw his trainer resume out there for a big name fighter to consider. Other than that, he is spilling the beans and answering questions that he usually wouldn't answer. Can you see the media penetrating the Mayweather camp and getting answers to every question that they ask now?
CrazyBuffalO
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Sep 5 2011, 11:20 PM) *
laugh.gif See how quick Sr. jumped ship? Now he can improve Pacquiao all of a sudden? I see that he isn't saying it to tell people that he can beat Jr. if he trains him, but I see him trying to throw his trainer resume out there for a big name fighter to consider. Other than that, he is spilling the beans and answering questions that he usually wouldn't answer. Can you see the media penetrating the Mayweather camp and getting answers to every question that they ask now?


It's irrelevant.
To win a fight the trainer and the boxer has to be both good. Good trainer means someone who can teach good (obviously), while good boxer means someone who can fully absorb the teachings of his mentor and be a good learner and then be able to translate that in the ring.

Sometimes a trainer is good, while the boxer he's training is not a good learner. And so the boxer loses in the ring. Or sometimes its vice versa.
To get the desired result, BOTH has to be good.

All this talk of Floyd Sr. knowing how to "train" boxers is beside the point. The point here is, is Pacquiao even a good learner?? He moves forward too much and taking too much hits. If it weren't for that thing in him, he'd be knocked out already!
Eighty88Eight
i happen to believe Pacquiao is gonna give Mayweather a beating without Senior's help. Too much speed, too much power, too many angles, too many punches. Mayweather is gonna be seriously flustered with the pace of the fight, he'll counter Pacquiao a number of times, but it won't be enough.

I really don't know who the fuck Mayweather has beaten for everybody to assume he's on another planet than every fighter he faces. He could scarcely get passed De La Hoya's 50 punches-a-round.
streetlion1
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 5 2011, 12:01 PM) *
i happen to believe Pacquiao is gonna give Mayweather a beating without Senior's help. Too much speed, too much power, too many angles, too many punches. Mayweather is gonna be seriously flustered with the pace of the fight, he'll counter Pacquiao a number of times, but it won't be enough.

I really don't know who the fuck Mayweather has beaten for everybody to assume he's on another planet than every fighter he faces. He could scarcely get passed De La Hoya's 50 punches-a-round.

Who has Pacquiao beatin that would lead you to believe he'll be too much for Floyd?? Pacquaio is the same guy who got his ass whipped once by Morales and twice by Marquez....I think the fight will be a disappointing one because Mayweather will chop him up and have the fight over inside of 7-8rounds.

I cant stand Floyd....but I know the kind of talent he has and Im definitely not buying into the hand-picked hype of the catchweight king Quackuiao.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 5 2011, 12:01 PM) *
i happen to believe Pacquiao is gonna give Mayweather a beating without Senior's help. Too much speed, too much power, too many angles, too many punches. Mayweather is gonna be seriously flustered with the pace of the fight, he'll counter Pacquiao a number of times, but it won't be enough.

I really don't know who the fuck Mayweather has beaten for everybody to assume he's on another planet than every fighter he faces. He could scarcely get passed De La Hoya's 50 punches-a-round.


the same can be said about Pac... hes barely gotten the W a couple times now. i juss dont see how someone who couldnt touch Mosley, KO Mayweather. i think Mays size will be the deciding factor... hes smart so he'll use the height and reach advantage BIG TIME. he'll keep Pac at the end of those Pot shots and i think he frustrates him in the end.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 5 2011, 02:04 PM) *
Who has Pacquiao beatin that would lead you to believe he'll be too much for Floyd?? Pacquaio is the same guy who got his ass whipped once by Morales and twice by Marquez....I think the fight will be a disappointing one because Mayweather will chop him up and have the fight over inside of 7-8rounds.

I cant stand Floyd....but I know the kind of talent he has and Im definitely not buying into the hand-picked hype of the catchweight king Quackuiao.


couldnt have said it better myself Street!!
Cshel86
QUOTE (CrazyBuffalO @ Sep 5 2011, 12:10 PM) *
It's irrelevant.
To win a fight the trainer and the boxer has to be both good. Good trainer means someone who can teach good (obviously), while good boxer means someone who can fully absorb the teachings of his mentor and be a good learner and then be able to translate that in the ring.

Sometimes a trainer is good, while the boxer he's training is not a good learner. And so the boxer loses in the ring. Or sometimes its vice versa.
To get the desired result, BOTH has to be good.

All this talk of Floyd Sr. knowing how to "train" boxers is beside the point. The point here is, is Pacquiao even a good learner?? He moves forward too much and taking too much hits. If it weren't for that thing in him, he'd be knocked out already!

Great post! At this point, its going to be all about Sr. getting the attention that he has been whoring for all this time. The media will ask Sr. questions that they know Jr. wont answer, and they are sure as shit going to get one...whether the response holds power or not. Let's just expect to see several articles quoting Floyd Sr. and some rubble that happens to fly out of his mouth from this point on.
mgrover
i dont think snr can improve the pacman, if he makes him defensive it will have a positive effect in that he wont be as easy to hit, but it means he'll spend less time attacking. his answer to everything wether its in a corner or being punched it attack back.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Sep 5 2011, 03:07 PM) *
the same can be said about Pac... hes barely gotten the W a couple times now. i juss dont see how someone who couldnt touch Mosley, KO Mayweather. i think Mays size will be the deciding factor... hes smart so he'll use the height and reach advantage BIG TIME. he'll keep Pac at the end of those Pot shots and i think he frustrates him in the end.


Pacquiao had a higher connect percentage against Mosley than Mayweather did, despite the fact that he was fleeing from Pacquiao. Pac hasn't struggled lately (barely gotten the W?), and I don't see the same fighter that I saw as a lightweight. Too much speed, too much power, too many punches, too many angles. I'm not making this into a question of who faced the better opposition, what I'm saying is Floyd could scarcely get passed De La Hoya, almost got stretched against Mosley, had a hard time taking control against Hatton, and will probably have a rough time with Ortiz. These are great wins, but they're limited opponents. Pacquiao overwhelms him inside of 12.
caneman
SR wouldn't do shit for pac and for the most part ain't done much for anyone! There is a fact about pac, if he becomes more defensive it will make him less offensive and that isn't the way to go for pac! This is just more attention grabbing for SR, he should really try completing a 12 step program, it would do his career wonders, @ least what's left of it!
streetlion1
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 5 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Pacquiao had a higher connect percentage against Mosley than Mayweather did, despite the fact that he was fleeing from Pacquiao. Pac hasn't struggled lately (barely gotten the W?), and I don't see the same fighter that I saw as a lightweight. Too much speed, too much power, too many punches, too many angles. I'm not making this into a question of who faced the better opposition, what I'm saying is Floyd could scarcely get passed De La Hoya, almost got stretched against Mosley, had a hard time taking control against Hatton, and will probably have a rough time with Ortiz. These are great wins, but they're limited opponents. Pacquiao overwhelms him inside of 12.

Ok there is a difference here though....Floyd fought DLH at 154 when he still had something left in the tank...he didnt fight a drained and even older DLH that Manny fought. Now I always thought Hatton was a bum but Floyd fought him when he was undefeated and at his best. Another thing is against Mosley Pacquiao tried his hardest to get to him and stop him and couldnt do it...Mosley kept his right hand glued to his face and kept his feet moving and Pacquiao's attack became very inefective.

I just dont see Pacquiaos all offense ability being a bother to Floyd. Manny still is primarily a one handed fighter....he cant fight backing up....and his defense sucks. Matching up styles and abilities...I see once it gets past the 3rd round...an easy win for Floyd. Its gonna take someone who can get inside and get physical....someone with a real jab....someone with a different style and better overall boxing ability than Pacquiao to beat Gayweather.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 6 2011, 11:38 AM) *
Ok there is a difference here though....Floyd fought DLH at 154 when he still had something left in the tank...he didnt fight a drained and even older DLH that Manny fought. Now I always thought Hatton was a bum but Floyd fought him when he was undefeated and at his best. Another thing is against Mosley Pacquiao tried his hardest to get to him and stop him and couldnt do it...Mosley kept his right hand glued to his face and kept his feet moving and Pacquiao's attack became very inefective.

I just dont see Pacquiaos all offense ability being a bother to Floyd. Manny still is primarily a one handed fighter....he cant fight backing up....and his defense sucks. Matching up styles and abilities...I see once it gets past the 3rd round...an easy win for Floyd. Its gonna take someone who can get inside and get physical....someone with a real jab....someone with a different style and better overall boxing ability than Pacquiao to beat Gayweather.


Hatton's best weight was 140. Fact. Mayweather fought him at 147 where he in the eyes of many had already got beat against Collazo.

Manny is far from a one handed fighter these days he hurts and KO's guys with his right hand, and he can fight backing up, he did sporadically against Margarito and also in the first half of the Cotto fight. Truth be told if I had to lay my life on Mayweather/Pac I'd probably bet Mayweather but these ongoing inaccuracies that Manny is a one handed fighter and can't fight backing up simply aren't true these days.

Say what you will about his 'strength and conditioning' but Roach has definitely bought him along way in regards to his technique and ring smarts.
streetlion1
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 5 2011, 06:49 PM) *
Hatton's best weight was 140. Fact. Mayweather fought him at 147 where he in the eyes of many had already got beat against Collazo.

Manny is far from a one handed fighter these days he hurts and KO's guys with his right hand, and he can fight backing up, he did sporadically against Margarito and also in the first half of the Cotto fight. Truth be told if I had to lay my life on Mayweather/Pac I'd probably bet Mayweather but these ongoing inaccuracies that Manny is a one handed fighter and can't fight backing up simply aren't true these days.

Say what you will about his 'strength and conditioning' but Roach has definitely bought him along way in regards to his technique and ring smarts.

Well Hatton always was a bum IMO anyway lol....I dunno...I dont really see him being able to fight backing up...I see him back up...wait...and then fire off again. Also I stick to my saying he IS a one handed fighter....sure his right has gotten better but look at what Mosley did to nullify his attack...he wasnt even worried about his right hand. Also the man has no defense specifically against the uppercut.

This whole Manny is a monster hype train is a product of fighting the right guys at the right times....he ran from Marquez for 3 years and waited for him to get a bit older and lose a step and now he'll blow through Marquez and people will still be on the train.

Dont get me wrong I can pick at Floyds resume too and I really cant wait to see him lose....I just dont think Pacquaio has the right style or is talented enough to beat him.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 6 2011, 12:00 PM) *
Well Hatton always was a bum IMO anyway lol....I dunno...I dont really see him being able to fight backing up...I see him back up...wait...and then fire off again. Also I stick to my saying he IS a one handed fighter....sure his right has gotten better but look at what Mosley did to nullify his attack...he wasnt even worried about his right hand. Also the man has no defense specifically against the uppercut.

This whole Manny is a monster hype train is a product of fighting the right guys at the right times....he ran from Marquez for 3 years and waited for him to get a bit older and lose a step and now he'll blow through Marquez and people will still be on the train.

Dont get me wrong I can pick at Floyds resume too and I really cant wait to see him lose....I just dont think Pacquaio has the right style or is talented enough to beat him.



Can I be honest about the Mosley fight? I think Shane nullified fuck all. Manny had a shit night, period. It was a shit fight from the beginning and I think Manny knew it. Remember that round that Manny slipped but it was ruled a knockdown? Shoot Manny got angry for a New York minute there and it looked like a different fight.

That night he fought to the level of his opponent and only highlighted what a dumb idea it was to put Shane in there with him. That and Shane got Manny to enter into that 'silent agreement' that Teddy Atlas talked about.

I think a really motivated Manny could've got him out of there in 6 or less.
Eighty88Eight
I think Mosley is a once great fighter with a great chin, great conditioning, and really good experience. He's been through a lot and he can still stink out the joint against the best of them. He can still survive against anybody.

And again, I wasn't comparing performances between their common opponents. I'm saying that Floyd was taken deep against an old De La Hoya. Period. Manny Pacquiao is a much better fighter, MUCH better fighter, than a 34 year old De La Hoya. Of course, styles make fights, but this silly assumption that a fighter needs a mean jab in order to beat Floyd was proven wrong when Castillo basically beat him without a jab. Floyd is not a better fighter now than he was then. Like I said, too much speed, too much power, too much accuracy, too many punches, too many angles. Nobody beats Pacquiao for the next 3 years. I'm not a butt boy for either man, I love watching them both, and I don't care who wins. I'm just saying what I see. Unless Pacquiao is really on something, he's going to overwhelm Floyd at some point, resulting either in a KO or in Floyd trying to run and pot shot. Some will land but it won't matter.
knowledge
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 5 2011, 10:08 PM) *
I think Mosley is a once great fighter with a great chin, great conditioning, and really good experience. He's been through a lot and he can still stink out the joint against the best of them. He can still survive against anybody.

And again, I wasn't comparing performances between their common opponents. I'm saying that Floyd was taken deep against an old De La Hoya. Period. Manny Pacquiao is a much better fighter, MUCH better fighter, than a 34 year old De La Hoya. Of course, styles make fights, but this silly assumption that a fighter needs a mean jab in order to beat Floyd was proven wrong when Castillo basically beat him without a jab. Floyd is not a better fighter now than he was then. Like I said, too much speed, too much power, too much accuracy, too many punches, too many angles. Nobody beats Pacquiao for the next 3 years. I'm not a butt boy for either man, I love watching them both, and I don't care who wins. I'm just saying what I see. Unless Pacquiao is really on something, he's going to overwhelm Floyd at some point, resulting either in a KO or in Floyd trying to run and pot shot. Some will land but it won't matter.

streetlion1
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 5 2011, 07:29 PM) *
Can I be honest about the Mosley fight? I think Shane nullified fuck all. Manny had a shit night, period. It was a shit fight from the beginning and I think Manny knew it. Remember that round that Manny slipped but it was ruled a knockdown? Shoot Manny got angry for a New York minute there and it looked like a different fight.

That night he fought to the level of his opponent and only highlighted what a dumb idea it was to put Shane in there with him. That and Shane got Manny to enter into that 'silent agreement' that Teddy Atlas talked about.

I think a really motivated Manny could've got him out of there in 6 or less.

So Manny had an off night?? I dunno...maybe but he looked like the same Manny to me. Its just that Mosley was the first fighter he's fought in recent years that actually used his footwork to stay away instead of looking to move and bang it out with Manny. I guess the only way we'll be able to tell is if he fights someone else who has the ability to not only use that strategy but also has great defense and counter punching ability....because mosley didnt even show up that night...he is done for.
knowledge

wow eighty88eight im reading your post and you dont know NOTHING about boxing! first off you said that De La Hoya gave floyd a hard time! YEAH RIGHT!!!! de la hoya was throwing punches like a girl in that fight out of desparation because he couldnt land anything clean! floyd made him look like a premature amatuer! see the thing you dont know is the object of boxing is to hit and not be hit!! so floyd beating de la hoya with less punches than pacquiao shows that is the better fighter and you said it proves he is not! your clueless at this game! pacman is a beast but he is def not better than mayweather! its the same as saying lebron is a beast but he is not better than jordan. there is a sweet science to this sport and you need to learn it! the only chance that pacman and ortiz have is a punchers chance. they would have to knock floyd out or if floyd gets old over night. and thats how it usually happens. neither of them are better boxers than mayweather. floyd is a technician and a physical beast thats why he wont be beat in the next three years! you scream floyd wont be able to handle pressure but those are the fights he likes the most! dont forget he CHOSE ortiz!! every pressure fighter he got he dominated point blank! floyd is going to prove his greatness after he beats these guys then you'll come up with some other excuse why he beat them the same way your saying he but these other guys.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (knowledge @ Sep 6 2011, 03:29 PM) *
wow eighty88eight im reading your post and you dont know NOTHING about boxing! first off you said that De La Hoya gave floyd a hard time! YEAH RIGHT!!!! de la hoya was throwing punches like a girl in that fight out of desparation because he couldnt land anything clean! floyd made him look like a premature amatuer! see the thing you dont know is the object of boxing is to hit and not be hit!! so floyd beating de la hoya with less punches than pacquiao shows that is the better fighter and you said it proves he is not! your clueless at this game! pacman is a beast but he is def not better than mayweather! its the same as saying lebron is a beast but he is not better than jordan. there is a sweet science to this sport and you need to learn it! the only chance that pacman and ortiz have is a punchers chance. they would have to knock floyd out or if floyd gets old over night. and thats how it usually happens. neither of them are better boxers than mayweather. floyd is a technician and a physical beast thats why he wont be beat in the next three years! you scream floyd wont be able to handle pressure but those are the fights he likes the most! dont forget he CHOSE ortiz!! every pressure fighter he got he dominated point blank! floyd is going to prove his greatness after he beats these guys then you'll come up with some other excuse why he beat them the same way your saying he but these other guys.


I don't agree that a pure boxer always beats a boxer/puncher (as I would class Manny.) History says sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but it is far from a given.
Cshel86
QUOTE (knowledge @ Sep 5 2011, 11:29 PM) *
wow eighty88eight im reading your post and you dont know NOTHING about boxing! first off you said that De La Hoya gave floyd a hard time! YEAH RIGHT!!!! de la hoya was throwing punches like a girl in that fight out of desparation because he couldnt land anything clean! floyd made him look like a premature amatuer! see the thing you dont know is the object of boxing is to hit and not be hit!! so floyd beating de la hoya with less punches than pacquiao shows that is the better fighter and you said it proves he is not! your clueless at this game! pacman is a beast but he is def not better than mayweather! its the same as saying lebron is a beast but he is not better than jordan. there is a sweet science to this sport and you need to learn it! the only chance that pacman and ortiz have is a punchers chance. they would have to knock floyd out or if floyd gets old over night. and thats how it usually happens. neither of them are better boxers than mayweather. floyd is a technician and a physical beast thats why he wont be beat in the next three years! you scream floyd wont be able to handle pressure but those are the fights he likes the most! dont forget he CHOSE ortiz!! every pressure fighter he got he dominated point blank! floyd is going to prove his greatness after he beats these guys then you'll come up with some other excuse why he beat them the same way your saying he but these other guys.


Oscar effectively used his jab and threw Floyd off a bit throughout the fight, period. He landed a few right hands, and those two left hooks at the end of the 12th round, but that was it. Somebody with a stiff jab can keep Floyd at bay, but whatever they do after that is in their hands. Floyd used his defense the whole time, and broke Oscar down the minute he (Oscar)stopped using his jab.
gravytrain
i don't think Pac had an off night with Mosley, Pac had to chase someone instead of them coming to him. he didn't look very strong against a moving target either. anyone thinking he's going to connect with Mayweather like he connects against someone like Cotto or Margarito needs to find a new sport because they don't have an eye for boxing.

JLUVBABY
oscar won 3 rounds if you are kind vs floyd..... and knowledge is right.. oscar flung away like a sissy girl in that fight... just saying... that is very true...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 6 2011, 04:15 PM) *
i don't think Pac had an off night with Mosley, Pac had to chase someone instead of them coming to him. he didn't look very strong against a moving target either. anyone thinking he's going to connect with Mayweather like he connects against someone like Cotto or Margarito needs to find a new sport because they don't have an eye for boxing.


We'll agree to disagree. I thought Manny looked like he was lacking energy and somewhat disinterested. I also think he was a little leery of Mosley's power and very careful not to walk into a power shot. The Margarito fight gave him a scare IMHO.

Agreed though he will find the moving target in Floyd a whole different proposition than his previous opponents.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 5 2011, 10:35 PM) *
I don't agree that a pure boxer always beats a boxer/puncher (as I would class Manny.) History says sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but it is far from a given.


what history shows is pure boxers have the best resumes of all other fighters... sure there is the exeptions but i can name more boxers that fought longer and at a higher level then any othe puncher or hybrid type fighter... boxers take the less amount of damage and usually have the longevity... for boxing is the art of hitting without getting hit... the fighter that does that best will or shall i say should last the longest... i thik in todays society people forget and get annoyed when boxers dont fight face first.... lol... but the art of the sport if looked up is "the art of hittin, without getting hit..."... mayweather does that best of anyfighter n the game... least he has... the day he stays too long the fight will be intersting to say the least... but mayweather has been a boxer in truest form... would love to read your opinion on how pac goes about pulling that fight off...
gravytrain
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 6 2011, 12:44 AM) *
We'll agree to disagree. I thought Manny looked like he was lacking energy and somewhat disinterested. I also think he was a little leery of Mosley's power and very careful not to walk into a power shot. The Margarito fight gave him a scare IMHO.

Agreed though he will find the moving target in Floyd a whole different proposition than his previous opponents.


he did look a little reluctant. the big problem was with how he approached the moving target in my opinion. he really just tried to chase him down and throw punches, he didn't try to cut off the ring or anything.
sduck
=/ Oscar stopped using the jab because Floyd was still able to slip through it. I don't know where people get this "Oscar was controlling Floyd with the Jab, but unreasonably stopped throwing it". Oscar for the most part was just trying to win on activity, that was the game plan Roach gave him... It WAS working, even though I think Floyd clearly won by about 8 rounds, he barely won most of those rounds. The main reason why Oscar was so effective is because he has such an amazing chin, ignored punishment, and kept coming forward. This is the main misconception people have on these "pressure" strategies against Floyd. The common thing these pressure fighters do is that they ignore punishment and just keep coming forward... Now if someone like Pacquiao was like that, then I'd think he'd be too much for Floyd, but Manny doesn't fight like that. He doesn't ignore punishment, he doesn't like to get hit, even though he commonly does.

To make my judgement on the "Megafight" I went back and watched most of Mayweather and Pacquiao's fights. I had my money on Pacquaio, but just only after watching two of Mayweather's fights made me change my opinion and immediately jump to a conclusion; and there's no doubt in my mind now. There is NO WAY Pacquiao will beat Mayweather. I promise you it will be a disappointing one-sided fight. Even Mayweather thinks it'll be easy, and the only time he's been wrong about the fight being easy is when he fought De La Hoya.

They're both still the same fighters they were earlier in their careers. I do see deterioration in Mayweather's punching power, he punched harder back then and was known as a power puncher. It's not saying he still doesn't punch hard h/e. Pacquiao, his jab is oddly stronger in some fights now. He still can't "consistently" fight backwards, still the same wild fighter he always was. Better punch resistance and increased stamina now. He still doesn't "ignore punishment".

Another misconception people think is how Mayweather will fight Pacquiao. I bet you Mayweather won't box him in "boring" fashion. He's going to fight him right in the pocket. Watch Pacquiao's footwork when he approaches, he lunges all the time, he needs that distance. May is not going to give him that distance, he's going to stand right in front of him, left hooks, counter rights, shoulder rolls, and uppercut him all day. Manny does bruise and bleed pretty easily; That's why I think they might stop it, but then probably not, because Manny and Roach don't like to quit.

And lol 88, it's funny when someone says Floyd will destroy Manny, they're just a Floyd nuthugger, but it's easy for you to say Pacquiao will be too much for Mayweather.

Whoops might have posted too late...

One last thing, the only time where I thought Manny didn't look the same was in the first Morales fight. He looked fairly weak and exhausted in that fight. Just like I don't think Mayweather looked the same in the first Castillo fight.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 6 2011, 04:53 PM) *
what history shows is pure boxers have the best resumes of all other fighters... sure there is the exeptions but i can name more boxers that fought longer and at a higher level then any othe puncher or hybrid type fighter... boxers take the less amount of damage and usually have the longevity... for boxing is the art of hitting without getting hit... the fighter that does that best will or shall i say should last the longest... i thik in todays society people forget and get annoyed when boxers dont fight face first.... lol... but the art of the sport if looked up is "the art of hittin, without getting hit..."... mayweather does that best of anyfighter n the game... least he has... the day he stays too long the fight will be intersting to say the least... but mayweather has been a boxer in truest form... would love to read your opinion on how pac goes about pulling that fight off...


I would call the greatest boxer of all time SRR a boxer/puncher. However I take your point, well parts of it, haha.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 6 2011, 03:01 PM) *
They're both still the same fighters they were earlier in their careers.


All I needed to hear. If you seriously believe that then there is no hope for you.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 6 2011, 12:12 AM) *
I would call the greatest boxer of all time SRR a boxer/puncher. However I take your point, well parts of it, haha.


dont get me wrong ollie and you know we go back a little ways on this forum... i only call floyd my favorite fighter cuzz ive had the pleasure of watching this guy from his amature days till now... only other fighter i can say i rode the bandwagon and not even like floyds but floyds skills are much greater is mike tyson... had the pleasure of watching his whole career and that was awesome back in the days.. but floyd.. watching him at his best and dont get it twisted he is at the tail end of his career... but at his best it was like watching a picasso paint a picture.... like watching a great artist... thats the best i can describe him.... and yes his style changed as he came to welterweight cuzz the power didnt move up with him... but the dude in my opinion is still great to watch.... now and until he gets old he is like a van gho doing his thing.. been interested in this sport since i was a kid and it obvious when a prodigy is in the mix... say it like this... i used to think floyd would lose to pernell whitaker in a atg p4p fight... im not so sure now.... he is moving up and a win over ortiz moves him way up he ladder in my opinion... he beats pac.... it shouldnt in my opinion cuzzi htink its an easy fight but IF he beats him just judging off off common thoughts on the fight there should be no question he is top 10 of all time... love or hate the guy hewill have beaten whats out there.. now im sure for some they will say well martinez is out there... personally i think thats an esy win as well but shall he win that as well where would any of you guys that detract him rank him?... how bout his fans or just the people that wana see the best?.. for me i dont know id have to think about it but id rank him pretty high should he pull off that trifecta..
sduck
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 6 2011, 01:28 AM) *
All I needed to hear. If you seriously believe that then there is no hope for you.

I meant their style of fighting.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 6 2011, 05:37 PM) *
dont get me wrong ollie and you know we go back a little ways on this forum... i only call floyd my favorite fighter cuzz ive had the pleasure of watching this guy from his amature days till now... only other fighter i can say i rode the bandwagon and not even like floyds but floyds skills are much greater is mike tyson... had the pleasure of watching his whole career and that was awesome back in the days.. but floyd.. watching him at his best and dont get it twisted he is at the tail end of his career... but at his best it was like watching a picasso paint a picture.... like watching a great artist... thats the best i can describe him.... and yes his style changed as he came to welterweight cuzz the power didnt move up with him... but the dude in my opinion is still great to watch.... now and until he gets old he is like a van gho doing his thing.. been interested in this sport since i was a kid and it obvious when a prodigy is in the mix... say it like this... i used to think floyd would lose to pernell whitaker in a atg p4p fight... im not so sure now.... he is moving up and a win over ortiz moves him way up he ladder in my opinion... he beats pac.... it shouldnt in my opinion cuzzi htink its an easy fight but IF he beats him just judging off off common thoughts on the fight there should be no question he is top 10 of all time... love or hate the guy hewill have beaten whats out there.. now im sure for some they will say well martinez is out there... personally i think thats an esy win as well but shall he win that as well where would any of you guys that detract him rank him?... how bout his fans or just the people that wana see the best?.. for me i dont know id have to think about it but id rank him pretty high should he pull off that trifecta..



Hey JLUV it's OK I know you've got a little man love for Floyd, it's good to see you let it out bro laugh.gif If he pummels Pac his stock rises no question. However beating Ortiz does zero for his legacy. At the moe it's about the best fight he could make but Ortiz isn't a great champion. One only needs to go back to the prediction threads before the Berto fight (also another ho-hum champ) to get a true fix of Ortiz's standing amongst the hardcore boxing fraternity.

For this fight I have to stick with Lloyd's genius tagline:

"Proven quitter versus woman hitter"

Nice to see you mention our 'form', it's hard to find an oldtimer to spar against these days laugh.gif
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 6 2011, 08:05 AM) *
Hey JLUV it's OK I know you've got a little man love for Floyd, it's good to see you let it out bro laugh.gif If he pummels Pac his stock rises no question. However beating Ortiz does zero for his legacy. At the moe it's about the best fight he could make but Ortiz isn't a great champion. One only needs to go back to the prediction threads before the Berto fight (also another ho-hum champ) to get a true fix of Ortiz's standing amongst the hardcore boxing fraternity.

For this fight I have to stick with Lloyd's genius tagline:

"Proven quitter versus woman hitter"

Nice to see you mention our 'form', it's hard to find an oldtimer to spar against these days laugh.gif



*Takes bow*

Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (knowledge @ Sep 5 2011, 11:29 PM) *
wow eighty88eight im reading your post and you dont know NOTHING about boxing! first off you said that De La Hoya gave floyd a hard time! YEAH RIGHT!!!! de la hoya was throwing punches like a girl in that fight out of desparation because he couldnt land anything clean! floyd made him look like a premature amatuer! see the thing you dont know is the object of boxing is to hit and not be hit!! so floyd beating de la hoya with less punches than pacquiao shows that is the better fighter and you said it proves he is not! your clueless at this game! pacman is a beast but he is def not better than mayweather! its the same as saying lebron is a beast but he is not better than jordan. there is a sweet science to this sport and you need to learn it! the only chance that pacman and ortiz have is a punchers chance. they would have to knock floyd out or if floyd gets old over night. and thats how it usually happens. neither of them are better boxers than mayweather. floyd is a technician and a physical beast thats why he wont be beat in the next three years! you scream floyd wont be able to handle pressure but those are the fights he likes the most! dont forget he CHOSE ortiz!! every pressure fighter he got he dominated point blank! floyd is going to prove his greatness after he beats these guys then you'll come up with some other excuse why he beat them the same way your saying he but these other guys.


I'm a huge Mayweather fan, but you Floyd partisans are even starting to sound like his dumb ass.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 6 2011, 01:01 AM) *
=/ Oscar stopped using the jab because Floyd was still able to slip through it. I don't know where people get this "Oscar was controlling Floyd with the Jab, but unreasonably stopped throwing it". Oscar for the most part was just trying to win on activity, that was the game plan Roach gave him... It WAS working, even though I think Floyd clearly won by about 8 rounds, he barely won most of those rounds. The main reason why Oscar was so effective is because he has such an amazing chin, ignored punishment, and kept coming forward. This is the main misconception people have on these "pressure" strategies against Floyd. The common thing these pressure fighters do is that they ignore punishment and just keep coming forward... Now if someone like Pacquiao was like that, then I'd think he'd be too much for Floyd, but Manny doesn't fight like that. He doesn't ignore punishment, he doesn't like to get hit, even though he commonly does.

To make my judgement on the "Megafight" I went back and watched most of Mayweather and Pacquiao's fights. I had my money on Pacquaio, but just only after watching two of Mayweather's fights made me change my opinion and immediately jump to a conclusion; and there's no doubt in my mind now. There is NO WAY Pacquiao will beat Mayweather. I promise you it will be a disappointing one-sided fight. Even Mayweather thinks it'll be easy, and the only time he's been wrong about the fight being easy is when he fought De La Hoya.

They're both still the same fighters they were earlier in their careers. I do see deterioration in Mayweather's punching power, he punched harder back then and was known as a power puncher. It's not saying he still doesn't punch hard h/e. Pacquiao, his jab is oddly stronger in some fights now. He still can't "consistently" fight backwards, still the same wild fighter he always was. Better punch resistance and increased stamina now. He still doesn't "ignore punishment".

Another misconception people think is how Mayweather will fight Pacquiao. I bet you Mayweather won't box him in "boring" fashion. He's going to fight him right in the pocket. Watch Pacquiao's footwork when he approaches, he lunges all the time, he needs that distance. May is not going to give him that distance, he's going to stand right in front of him, left hooks, counter rights, shoulder rolls, and uppercut him all day. Manny does bruise and bleed pretty easily; That's why I think they might stop it, but then probably not, because Manny and Roach don't like to quit.

And lol 88, it's funny when someone says Floyd will destroy Manny, they're just a Floyd nuthugger, but it's easy for you to say Pacquiao will be too much for Mayweather.

Whoops might have posted too late...

One last thing, the only time where I thought Manny didn't look the same was in the first Morales fight. He looked fairly weak and exhausted in that fight. Just like I don't think Mayweather looked the same in the first Castillo fight.


It's my opinion, and I stand by it. Manny's power, speed, angles, and volume are going to keep Mayweather on the defense the entire night. Mayweather has never fought anybody as good as a prime Barerra or Morales or Marquez who are equal in size. His best opponent was Castillo, who he fought a life and death fight with the first fight, and slapped and ran in the second fight because he was scared to be within 10 ft of him. Mayweather is brilliant but he's not invincible.
streetlion1
Check out the ways Mosley nullified Mannys attack....Pacman didnt have a bad night he just ran into a guy who was "boxing" that night....well and surviving lol but while surviving he showed how to make Pacquiao look average.

http://youtu.be/Bq3bdOc-yfA

Eighty88Eight
what you're missing is the fact that Mosley lost every round. What's been illustrated in Manny's last two fights is that you can run and circle him all night and refuse to engage to make it to the finish line, or you can engage him like a man and get your fuckin ribs and orbital bone smashed. All the Mosley fight shows is a guy surviving and losing 12 consecutive rounds. The Mosley-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather fights showed that you can hit Mayweather if you just move your fuckin hands fast enough and often enough. Shoulder roll won't work against Pacquiao.
sduck
I'll just put it very simple. Anyone that has a shitty defense and doesn't ignore punishment can not beat someone like Floyd Mayweather Jr. Being able to match your offense with his defense, while just countering and tagging you all day, will make you look silly. If Floyd shows up, Ortiz and then Pacquaio will be a walk in the park. They only have a puncher's chance, but against a defensive genius like Floyd, it will be unlikely.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 6 2011, 01:23 PM) *
what you're missing is the fact that Mosley lost every round. What's been illustrated in Manny's last two fights is that you can run and circle him all night and refuse to engage to make it to the finish line, or you can engage him like a man and get your fuckin ribs and orbital bone smashed. All the Mosley fight shows is a guy surviving and losing 12 consecutive rounds. The Mosley-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather fights showed that you can hit Mayweather if you just move your fuckin hands fast enough and often enough. Shoulder roll won't work against Pacquiao.


yeah, Mosley lost every round. did you miss the countless rounds Pac couldn't land on a moving target? he took away a lot of Pac's offense just by giving him movement and the worst he got out of it was a blister.
streetlion1
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 6 2011, 01:57 PM) *
I'll just put it very simple. Anyone that has a shitty defense and doesn't ignore punishment can not beat someone like Floyd Mayweather Jr. Being able to match your offense with his defense, while just countering and tagging you all day, will make you look silly. If Floyd shows up, Ortiz and then Pacquaio will be a walk in the park. They only have a puncher's chance, but against a defensive genius like Floyd, it will be unlikely.

Right on the head!! When in the hell did Manny become a beast all of a sudden?? People believing the hype watching him blow through an old and drained DLH??...K.Oing Hatton??...draining Cotto and Margacheato??...sparring a walking heavy bag like Clottey??...blowing out an old Mosley but getting expose by how ordinary someone can make his offense look by moving, jabbing, and being physical. Now he's gonna fight a blown up Marquez now since he ran from him for 3yrs waiting for him to lose a step lol.

Against Mayweather Pacquaio would be really exposed. There is nothing I see that Pacquiao does that would bother Floyd...Mannys defense just isnt there...his fast feet and hands are only destructive to guys who dont move well and have bad defense. Look at the guys he has fought and the conditions and times he fought them since last fighting Marquez. Mayweather is on a whole different level...his defense, footwork, handspeed, ring knowledge. Manny cant box...he's an all offense fighter who uses angles but none of that works too well when Floyd is moving, boxing, tying Manny up...using his shoulder and elbow on the inside...countering the hell out of him and chopping him up.

Warlord
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 7 2011, 01:01 AM) *
Right on the head!! When in the hell did Manny become a beast all of a sudden?? People believing the hype watching him blow through an old and drained DLH??...K.Oing Hatton??...draining Cotto and Margacheato??...sparring a walking heavy bag like Clottey??...blowing out an old Mosley but getting expose by how ordinary someone can make his offense look by moving, jabbing, and being physical. Now he's gonna fight a blown up Marquez now since he ran from him for 3yrs waiting for him to lose a step lol.

Against Mayweather Pacquaio would be really exposed. There is nothing I see that Pacquiao does that would bother Floyd...Mannys defense just isnt there...his fast feet and hands are only destructive to guys who dont move well and have bad defense. Look at the guys he has fought and the conditions and times he fought them since last fighting Marquez. Mayweather is on a whole different level...his defense, footwork, handspeed, ring knowledge. Manny cant box...he's an all offense fighter who uses angles but none of that works too well when Floyd is moving, boxing, tying Manny up...using his shoulder and elbow on the inside...countering the hell out of him and chopping him up.

What happened to your boy, Brock Lesnar? You still riding that bandwagon, cool guy?
streetlion1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 7 2011, 12:16 AM) *
What happened to your boy, Brock Lesnar? You still riding that bandwagon, cool guy?

lol...nah Lesnar sucks...im hoping he goes back to WWE.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 6 2011, 04:29 PM) *
yeah, Mosley lost every round. did you miss the countless rounds Pac couldn't land on a moving target? he took away a lot of Pac's offense just by giving him movement and the worst he got out of it was a blister.


Just by movement? He refused to engage, and clinched often. That's a vital distinction. His face was a lot more bruised up than it was against Mayweather. The point is: You can run and survive, or you can fight and get swamped. That's basically your options fighting Pacquiao nowadays.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 7 2011, 01:22 AM) *
lol...nah Lesnar sucks...im hoping he goes back to WWE.


the skill and intelligence employed in MMA is astonishing to me.... look how talented they are
streetlion1
QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Sep 7 2011, 07:40 AM) *
the skill and intelligence employed in MMA is astonishing to me.... look how talented they are

LoL im not really an MMA fan...I would watch a Brock Lesnar fight for the same reason and other casual fan would...because he was already a star before he entered MMA. I do like watching Rashad Evans fight though. In general I think MMA sucks.
Eighty88Eight
i can stare at that gif all day
Method
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 7 2011, 01:01 AM) *
People believing the hype watching him blow through an old and drained DLH??...K.Oing Hatton??...draining Cotto and Margacheato??...sparring a walking heavy bag like Clottey??...blowing out an old Mosley but getting expose by how ordinary someone can make his offense look by moving, jabbing, and being physical. Now he's gonna fight a blown up Marquez now since he ran from him for 3yrs waiting for him to lose a step lol.

You could pretty much say the same damn thing (or worse) about Floyd's comp.

Personally, I don't think Mosley exposed shit other than how to look like a bitch. Mosley was scared shitless to engage.
Eighty88Eight
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 7 2011, 09:48 AM) *
You could pretty much say the same damn thing (or worse) about Floyd's comp.

Personally, I don't think Mosley exposed shit other than how to look like a bitch. Mosley was scared shitless to engage.


it sounds awfully ridiculous when people try to begrudge all of Mayweather's or Pacquiao's successes. There are legit criticisms, but it sounds absurd when people go off on those tangents "CMON, MARQUEZ!? MOSLEY!? MARGARITO!? COTTO!? HATTON!? DE LA HOYA!? MORALES!? BARERRA!? ORTIZ!?"... i mean wtf people, these are some of the top names of the generation one way or another. relax. Pac and May are all-time greats no matter who wins their fight. it'll be funny if it ends up being a legit draw though.
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