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Full Version: Is Floyd Mayweather Jr. a "coward"?
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Xception2ThRule
I believe Floyd is supremely confident in his abilities. That is one of the reasons why I don't believe he is (or can be) a "coward" like some ignorant people may say he is. If you truly believe you are the best (keyword being "truly," some guys like a shot RJJ after Tarver still boasted he was a P4P fighter, but deep down he knew he was kidding himself and the public) and can beat anyone, you're not afraid to fight any opponent because you don't believe it's possible for you to lose. Just think about what I just said for a second...

If you believe Floyd truly believes he is the best and it's not just bravado, is it really possible for him to be scared and duck any opponent??? If Floyd believes he is the best and has proven it throughout his career (starting back in the 90s, and continuing to prove that today), it's practically impossible for him to be a coward. Believing you're truly the best and being a coward are basically mutually exclusive terms.

If you agree that Floyd practically ducked no one early in his career and was willing and basically did face everybody who was worth fighting, do you really believe all of a sudden this courageous and skilled fighter became a coward the more he fought??? OR, is it more likely that he proved he was and possibly is the best, became a star and a household name, and now has enough drawing power to pick who he fights???

Floyd may pick the most lucrative fights out there which may upset some boxing fans (the same way Pacquiao has done lately by keeping $$$ in-house with Top Rank, and having fought arguably less worthy opposition than Floyd recently), BUT THAT DOESN'T IMPLY FLOYD IS AFRAID TO FIGHT THE OPPONENTS HE SUPPOSEDLY "DUCKED" (the same applies to Pacquiao, or any star fighter for that matter). That would be called ASSUMING, and sadly, that's what most fight fans do.

I believe Floyd truly believes he is the best and thinks he can beat Pacquiao clean or dirty, but why risk it and let a man get away with possible cheating in what in all likelihood will be the most lucrative and biggest fight in boxing history? No matter how great you are, there is ALWAYS a chance you can get seriously hurt in boxing; one shot is all it takes to derail your career. Floyd knows this, and is willing 100% to fight Pacquiao once he submits to OSDT. Pacquiao hasn't willingly agreed to the testing until now.

Sorry, call me crazy, but I don't call that "ducking."
johnnyblaze
You a mind reader, or a psychologist?
lloyd mayflower
Yes, he is.
Method
I would have liked to see Floyd fight a prime Margarito and a prime Cotto. I think he would have likely won, but I would have liked to see it. Especially in the case of Margarito. I just would have like to see it.
Big Slim Sweet
This is EXACTLY the sort of thread this site has been sorely lacking lately!

No question Floyd's a yellow-bellied coward.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 9 2011, 03:42 PM) *
I would have liked to see Floyd fight a prime Margarito and a prime Cotto. I think he would have likely won, but I would have liked to see it. Especially in the case of Margarito. I just would have like to see it.

Add to that Casamayor and Freitas at 130.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 9 2011, 03:42 PM) *
I would have liked to see Floyd fight a prime Margarito and a prime Cotto. I think he would have likely won, but I would have liked to see it. Especially in the case of Margarito. I just would have like to see it.


I agree 100%. I hold the exact same sentiment.

But it's no coincidence that Margarito and Cotto are a part of Bob Arum's stable of fighters, and who Floyd is accused of "ducking." Everyone brings up the $8 million figure with Margarito, but didn't Mayweather go on to fight the TRUE champ at his weight class, Carlos Baldomir, for at least the same amount of money, if not more? And wasn't Baldomir the one everyone was ASSUMING he "ducked" (by taking on Zab Judah first where Floyd practically had everything to lose, and nothing to gain besides the IBF belt) until he took him on and won an easy UD?

Not to mention, Cotto was green at the time, and both Cotto and Margarito even now are not very well known to a general boxing audience and have never drawn huge crowds like an Oscar, Hatton, Marquez or even Shane in the twilight of his career can.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 03:57 PM) *
I agree 100%. I hold the exact same sentiment.

But it's no coincidence that Margarito and Cotto are a part of Bob Arum's stable of fighters, and who Floyd is accused of "ducking." Everyone brings up the $8 million figure with Margarito, but didn't Mayweather go on to fight the true champ at his weight class, Carlos Baldomir, for more money? And wasn't Baldomir the one everyone was ASSUMING he "ducked" (by taking on Zab Judah first where Floyd practically had everything to lose, and nothing to gain besides the IBF belt) until he took him on and won an easy UD?

Not to mention, Cotto was green at the time, and both Cotto and Margarito are not even very well known to a general boxing audience and have never drawn huge crowds like an Oscar, Hatton, Marquez or even Shane can.

Floyd made about $6MM for Baldomir.
flazi
no fighter is a coward. Any man willing to lace up gloves and risk his life in ring deserves the right to not be called a coward. I don't think fighters "duck" other fighters out of fear but out of money and its really the promoters who do the ducking. Pacman is not afraid of money and money isn't afraid of pacman. those 2 guys and everyone else would lace them up with a gorilla if the price was right lol.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 02:57 PM) *
I agree 100%. I hold the exact same sentiment.

But it's no coincidence that Margarito and Cotto are a part of Bob Arum's stable of fighters, and who Floyd is accused of "ducking." Everyone brings up the $8 million figure with Margarito, but didn't Mayweather go on to fight the TRUE champ at his weight class, Carlos Baldomir, for more money? And wasn't Baldomir the one everyone was ASSUMING he "ducked" (by taking on Zab Judah first where Floyd practically had everything to lose, and nothing to gain besides the IBF belt) until he took him on and won an easy UD?

Not to mention, Cotto was green at the time, and both Cotto and Margarito are not even very well known to a general boxing audience and have never drawn huge crowds like an Oscar, Hatton, Marquez or even Shane can.

I believe Floyd made $8,000,001 for Baldomir. It was really was a dollar. And NO ONE thought Floyd was ducking Baldomir when he fought Zab instead. After Zab lost to Baldomir everyone was more like, 'well that sucks. No PBF-Zab. Who's Floyd gonna fight now? Margarito!" Come on - most folks thought Gatti was gonna beat Baldomir when they fought a few months later. And no one was ever trying to see PBF-Gatti 2.

As far as Bob Arum goes, I suppose that's the x-factor and we'll never really know how much not working with him again meant to Floyd. Maybe he really did refuse to do business with him again, though at the time I thought their split was supposed to be fairly amicable. Who knows though.

I thought Floyd ducked Mosley at one time, but then when he finally fought him he certainly didn't fight scared.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 9 2011, 04:02 PM) *
I believe Floyd made $8,000,001 for Baldomir. It was really was a dollar. And NO ONE thought Floyd was ducking Baldomir when he fought Zab instead. After Zab lost to Baldomir everyone was more like, 'well that sucks. No PBF-Zab. Who's Floyd gonna fight now? Margarito!" Come on - most folks thought Gatti was gonna beat Baldomir when they fought a few months later. And no one was ever trying to see PBF-Gatti 2.

As far as Bob Arum goes, I suppose that's the x-factor and we'll never really know how much not working with him again meant to Floyd. Maybe he really did refuse to do business with him again, though at the time I thought their split was supposed to be fairly amicable. Who knows though.

I thought Floyd ducked Mosley at one time, but then when he finally fought him he certainly didn't fight scared.


Tell that to Brian Kenny. That makes AT LEAST one. There were obviously more [mostly casual] boxing fans who held the same sentiment.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 9 2011, 04:02 PM) *
I believe Floyd made $8,000,001 for Baldomir. It was really was a dollar. And NO ONE thought Floyd was ducking Baldomir when he fought Zab instead. After Zab lost to Baldomir everyone was more like, 'well that sucks. No PBF-Zab. Who's Floyd gonna fight now? Margarito!" Come on - most folks thought Gatti was gonna beat Baldomir when they fought a few months later. And no one was ever trying to see PBF-Gatti 2.

As far as Bob Arum goes, I suppose that's the x-factor and we'll never really know how much not working with him again meant to Floyd. Maybe he really did refuse to do business with him again, though at the time I thought their split was supposed to be fairly amicable. Who knows though.

I thought Floyd ducked Mosley at one time, but then when he finally fought him he certainly didn't fight scared.

I don't know anyone that thought Gatti was going to beat Baldomir. He was beyond done by that point.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 03:58 PM) *
Floyd made about $6MM for Baldomir.


I call BS. He made a little more than $8 million and was PROJECTED to do more. Plus, he was fighting for the WBC strap.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2657809
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 04:13 PM) *
I call BS. He made a little more than $8 million and was PROJECTED to do more. Plus, he was fighting for the WBC strap.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2657809

Not sure what the strap has to do with anything, but he had to pay back some of his advance to Dan after the fight, reducing his earnings to about $6MM.
Method
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 03:57 PM) *
Not to mention, Cotto was green at the time, and both Cotto and Margarito even now are not very well known to a general boxing audience and have never drawn huge crowds like an Oscar, Hatton, Marquez or even Shane can.

My man, both Cotto AND Margarito draw bigger than Shane.
Box in Hand
Anyone who fights for a living for over a decade cannot be considered a coward. All fighters face fear no matter how composed they are but if you make a decade in the game you get a free pass from being labeled a coward.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 9 2011, 04:16 PM) *
My man, both Cotto AND Margarito draw bigger than Shane.


I'm not sure if that is exactly true, but even if it were, we are talking different time periods and circumstances. When Floyd got to Shane, Cotto and Margarito were not even an option. Margarito had just been KTFO by the guy Floyd was about to fight, and Cotto had already been brutalized by Pacquiao and Margarito. Not to mention, as I've already stated, both Cotto and Margarito have ties to Bob Arum.

Notice in the post you are referring to, I stated "even" Shane. I was aware you could make that argument.
sduck
Yes Floyd is a coward, he needs to stop duckin and dodgin and fight Manny!!!

QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 9 2011, 04:02 PM) *
I believe Floyd made $8,000,001 for Baldomir. It was really was a dollar. And NO ONE thought Floyd was ducking Baldomir when he fought Zab instead. After Zab lost to Baldomir everyone was more like, 'well that sucks. No PBF-Zab. Who's Floyd gonna fight now? Margarito!" Come on - most folks thought Gatti was gonna beat Baldomir when they fought a few months later. And no one was ever trying to see PBF-Gatti 2.

As far as Bob Arum goes, I suppose that's the x-factor and we'll never really know how much not working with him again meant to Floyd. Maybe he really did refuse to do business with him again, though at the time I thought their split was supposed to be fairly amicable. Who knows though.

I thought Floyd ducked Mosley at one time, but then when he finally fought him he certainly didn't fight scared.

I think you might be talking about these boards specifically, because I'm sure that's way off.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 9 2011, 04:33 PM) *
Yes Floyd is a coward, he needs to stop duckin and dodgin and fight Manny!!!


I think you might be talking about these boards specifically, because I'm sure that's way off.


+1 to your second point. A ridiculous amount of heresay and assumptions in his post.
blackbelt2003
Floyd is not scared. He is just a businessman, and his business transactions mean more to him than his in-the-ring actions. That's why some fights we boxing fans (who don't give a shit about the business side) didn't happen, and some fights that were a little 'ho-hum' (like Floyd vs Gatti and Judah) did get made. From a business point of view, why fight a dangerous guy like Margarito or Cotto? Floyd knows he will probably beat them, but they'll be tougher fights than Judah and Baldomir for similar money.

I'm not saying that's a negative or a positive...some fighters have made good business AND made fan-fights (see Ray Robinson and Leonard, Ali and in recent times De La Hoya being the obvious choice), but there does seem to be a trend for modern fighters to err more on the business side than the fan side.




Black
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 9 2011, 02:42 PM) *
I would have liked to see Floyd fight a prime Margarito and a prime Cotto. I think he would have likely won, but I would have liked to see it. Especially in the case of Margarito. I just would have like to see it.


Cosign!

When people often make reference to Floyd ducking guys, Cotto and Margarito in their primes are always mentioned among the critics. I agree with Method. God could you imagine if Margarito had tried to cheat against Floyd like he did Mosley?

As hated as Floyd is as a person, he still always finds a way to win with the slickness and quickness in boxing skills that compare him to the great fighters of the past. I think a prime Cotto and Margarito, whom Floyd didn't fight will always be the bumps in the road for him. It doesn't really matter did he duck them, or was it for monetary reasons, or promoter problems, he never fought them.

I think that a reason why Floyd may never be able to warm up to the fans, is his "If it means dollars, it makes sense." This is true. But do we have to hear it from him all the time? Floyd's always talking about the business side of boxing, and says the same things for so many years. It would be better for Floyd if he just took on all comers without a year long oral soliloquy between fights of what he's going to do, or not going to do. We don't want to hear you talk Floyd, we want to see you fight! Work out the promotions and the politics, and oversee the problems without all this gibber-jabber. Just do your thing in the ring. I think that's what's most important for Floyd. Boxing should be about boxing inside the ring. For Floyd it's a six month reality TV show and one fight a year. That's not really a good recipe for the fans to follow.

Jack
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 04:14 PM) *
Not sure what the strap has to do with anything, but he had to pay back some of his advance to Dan after the fight, reducing his earnings to about $6MM.


Well, why would he fight Margarito, who most fans claim he "ducked," when Baldomir was the one most considered to be the TRUE champ at Welterweight. On top of this, he was projected to make more money against Baldomir than Margarito.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 04:46 PM) *
Well, why would he fight Margarito, who most fans claim he "ducked," when Baldomir was the one most considered to be the TRUE champ at Welterweight. On top of this, he was projected to make more money against Baldomir than Margarito.

He should have fought him because Tony was better than Baldomir and that was the fight the fans wanted to see. Sh1t, he could've fought him after Baldomir, too.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 04:48 PM) *
He should have fought him because Tony was better than Baldomir and that was the fight the fans wanted to see. Sh1t, he could've fought him after Baldomir, too.


You have to understand, at this time, Mayweather was gunning for the belts (in combination with the fights that make the most economical sense). Why do you think he fought Zab? IMO, he actually considered the IBF belt to be of importance. Zab was coming off of a loss, and Floyd had EVERYTHING TO LOSE IN THAT FIGHT. Later, as Floyd matured, he realized that the belts don't define him as a fighter. He had become the best P4P and the highest grossing fighter in the sport. Floyd earned the luxury to pick who he wanted (and wants) to fight, the same way Manny does now.

And remember, you're speaking from a fan's perspective, which is fine. I would have liked to have seen the fight, too. However, looking at it from Floyd's perspective, he hasn't fought a Bob Arum fighter since breaking ties with him for a reason.
flazi
There will always be "what-ifs" in every boxer's career in regards to people they could have fought. What if leonard and pryor had fought? did he duck pryor? no he just had bigger fish to fry. What if de la hoya fought forest and winky? did he duck them? no. You can't fight everyone just like you can't please everyone.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 04:56 PM) *
You have to understand, at this time, Mayweather was gunning for the belts (in combination with the fights that make the most economical sense). Why do you think he fought Zab? IMO, he actually considered the IBF belt to be of importance. Zab was coming off of a loss, and Floyd had EVERYTHING TO LOSE IN THAT FIGHT. Later, as Floyd matured, he realized that the belts don't define him as a fighter. He had become the best P4P and the highest grossing fighter in the sport. Floyd earned the luxury to pick who he wanted (and wants) to fight, the same way Manny does now.

And remember, you're speaking from a fan's perspective, which is fine. I would have liked to have seen the fight, too. However, looking at it from Floyd's perspective, he hasn't fought a Bob Arum fighter since breaking ties with him for a reason.

Yeah, Floyd considered the IBF strap to be so important that he never once defended it. I think he took the fight with Zab because he got an 95-5 split and it was the most money he could make at the time. I actually liked that fight though.
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 9 2011, 04:57 PM) *
There will always be "what-ifs" in every boxer's career in regards to people they could have fought. What if leonard and pryor had fought? did he duck pryor? no he just had bigger fish to fry. What if de la hoya fought forest and winky? did he duck them? no. You can't fight everyone just like you can't please everyone.

It's true, SRR has Charley Burley.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 05:08 PM) *
Yeah, Floyd considered the IBF strap to be so important that he never once defended it. I think he took the fight with Zab because he got an 95-5 split and it was the most money he could make at the time. I actually liked that fight though.


As I said, I think it was a combination of the economical aspect and the fact he was fighting for the IBF title. If there was no title on the line, I don't think he would have gone ahead with the fight, and I don't think it would have sold as well as it did, no matter how useless the IBF title is. It could still be (and was) labeled a "TITLE FIGHT."
johnnyblaze
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 05:14 PM) *
As I said, I think it was a combination of the economical aspect and the fact he was fighting for the IBF title. If there was no title on the line, I don't think he would have gone ahead with the fight, and I don't think it would have sold as well as it did, no matter how useless the IBF title is. It could still be (and was) labeled a "TITLE FIGHT."

It was the split, dude.
Prov0
Floyd never ducked margarito.
Floyd fought Baldomir in 2006 he was the official welterweight Champ and was coming off 2 impressive wins zab Judah "who was good then' and gatti 'who is well know" and at the time his last loss was in 1999.Margarito on the other hand wasnt really known and at the time kermit cintron was the best name on his resume and at that time kermit was coming up and margarito was coming off a win over manuel gomez.

if Floyd would have fought margarito instead of baldomir then people would say "oh he ducked baldomir". i feel he picked the better fighter at the current time. Margarito who wasnt known for 8 mill coming off two wins over nobody or baldomir for the same who was the Official welterweight champ coming off two impressive wins. who would u pick???

and Cotto. im sorry he never wanted some of Floyd anyone see him in the crowd of the gatti fight? that boy looked nervous sitting ring side . and when Floyd asked for cotto when they were both with Top Rank Bob said No as well as team Cotto saying their not ready and ca'mon now we know bob isnt going to put any of his fighters in with Floyd .look at all the excuses we get from the pac camp,hes afraid of needles,he agreed oh wait no havent ,oh we agreed to 7 days now. oh were not giving into floyds demand but yet floyd agreed to a 10 million dollar penalty per pound if over 147.8 oz gloves as well as ring size .
johnnyblaze
Tony was the longest reigning belt holder at 147 and had wins over more top 10 guys than anyone else in the division.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 03:07 PM) *
Tell that to Brian Kenny. That makes AT LEAST one. There were obviously more [mostly casual] boxing fans who held the same sentiment.

Brian Kenny didn't think Floyd was ducking Baldomir. He just questioned - and rightly so - why Floyd was fighting Zab coming off a LOSS. If I recall, Kenny said something like, 'Why not just fight Baldomir for the belts?" Nobody thought that was a fight Floyd was avoiding. The fight people wanted Floyd to take then was Margarito, who was less than a year removed from turning heads when he made Cintron cry like a baby in the ring.

QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 03:08 PM) *
I don't know anyone that thought Gatti was going to beat Baldomir. He was beyond done by that point.

Not so sure. I recall most experts picking Gatti. He was coming off the pasting of that Danish pastry and people felt like the Floyd brutalization aside he was the same old Arturo. Either way my point is, Baldomir was NOT considered by most knowledgeable boxing fans to be a competitive opponent for Mayweather based off the upset of Judah.

QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 9 2011, 03:33 PM) *
I think you might be talking about these boards specifically, because I'm sure that's way off.

These boards are the only place I've talked boxing with folks consistently for the past 10 years, so I'm sure that's right.

Bottom line: Nobody with boxing knowledge considered Baldomir legit. He just had the belts.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 9 2011, 03:48 PM) *
This is EXACTLY the sort of thread this site has been sorely lacking lately!

No question Floyd's a yellow-bellied coward.

I know, right? laugh.gif
Method
QUOTE (Prov0 @ Sep 9 2011, 06:05 PM) *
Floyd never ducked margarito.
Floyd fought Baldomir in 2006 he was the official welterweight Champ and was coming off 2 impressive wins zab Judah "who was good then' and gatti 'who is well know" and at the time his last loss was in 1999.Margarito on the other hand wasnt really known and at the time kermit cintron was the best name on his resume and at that time kermit was coming up and margarito was coming off a win over manuel gomez.

if Floyd would have fought margarito instead of baldomir then people would say "oh he ducked baldomir". i feel he picked the better fighter at the current time. Margarito who wasnt known for 8 mill coming off two wins over nobody or baldomir for the same who was the Official welterweight champ coming off two impressive wins. who would u pick???

and Cotto. im sorry he never wanted some of Floyd anyone see him in the crowd of the gatti fight? that boy looked nervous sitting ring side . and when Floyd asked for cotto when they were both with Top Rank Bob said No as well as team Cotto saying their not ready and ca'mon now we know bob isnt going to put any of his fighters in with Floyd .look at all the excuses we get from the pac camp,hes afraid of needles,he agreed oh wait no havent ,oh we agreed to 7 days now. oh were not giving into floyds demand but yet floyd agreed to a 10 million dollar penalty per pound if over 147.8 oz gloves as well as ring size .


NOBODY would EVER EVER EVER accuse ANYONE, least of all Floyd, of ducking Baldomir. Baldomir was handpicked. IT just so happened that he fell into owning a strap. But a belt for Mayweather was pointless by then.

Like I said, Floyd probably beats the likes of Cotto, Margarito, but I would have liked to have seen those fights.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 9 2011, 06:33 PM) *
NOBODY would EVER EVER EVER accuse ANYONE, least of all Floyd, of ducking Baldomir. Baldomir was handpicked. IT just so happened that he fell into owning a strap. But a belt for Mayweather was pointless by then.

Like I said, Floyd probably beats the likes of Cotto, Margarito, but I would have liked to have seen those fights.


reminds me of someone else
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 9 2011, 10:40 PM) *
reminds me of someone else


But Victor Ortiz is a hungry young quitter. Sorry meant lion
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (johnnyblaze @ Sep 9 2011, 04:48 PM) *
He should have fought him because Tony was better than Baldomir and that was the fight the fans wanted to see. Sh1t, he could've fought him after Baldomir, too.


Um, he chose to move up to 154 and fight Oscar De La Hoya, who really put him on the map and made him a megastar. You think he was going to fight Margarito instead? LOL. Not to mention, Margarito lost to Paul Williams shortly thereafter, so in addition to beating a bunch of nobodies and not being known to a general boxing audience, Margarito decreased his value further.
Mean Mister Mustard
I was going to write that no man who steps into the ring for a living is a coward, but why ruin the fun?
Cshel86
I dont believe he's a coward, but he isn't the best in the world when it comes to explaining why he didn't/wont fight certain fighters...sometimes he explains well, sometimes he doesn't. He is in the business nowadays to make as much money as possible, and the world wants to see him fight any and everybody. Sadly, any and everybody doesn't generate his desired amount of money. We will no longer see the 130, 135, and 140 lb Floyd...those days are long gone.

In my opinion, Floyd isn't a De La Hoya or Tyson when it comes to making crazy purses, but he is getting there. The thing is, guys like Tyson and De La Hoya were loved by boxing fans because they fought whoever, but Floyd has to "make" people demand his fights or his presence in the sport, because he wants to conduct his career the way he wants to...so he does irritating things like, take long layoffs, and make an After Dark Series just to mention everything except a comeback.

Dude promotes himself effectively, but it does get irritating after a while..all of the waitiing, talking, and less fighting. I dont believe any fighter out there is a coward, it's all about that low risk/high reward factor...the guys that are a high risk usually dont have shit to lose and have less money attached to their names, unlike the guys who protect their record in order to keep getting the high rewards. It doesn't mean that they are scared, but nobody is ready to get in there and have a knockdown dragout with somebody who wont make them as much money.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 10:44 PM) *
Um, he chose to move up to 154 and fight Oscar De La Hoya, who really put him on the map and made him a megastar. You think he was going to fight Margarito instead? LOL. Not to mention, Margarito lost to Paul Williams shortly thereafter, so in addition to beating a bunch of nobodies and not being known to a general boxing audience, Margarito decreased his value further.


Yes you beauty!! I was hoping to see that in this thread! Floyd and his fans favourite! Why should Floyd fight A, A been beat off B and B got beat off C. A, B and C aint shit.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Sep 9 2011, 06:42 PM) *
But Victor Ortiz is a hungry young quitter. Sorry meant lion

Speakin' of Ortiz, I watched his fight against Berto again (HBO On Demand) and I came to the conclusion that if he fights Floyd the same way he fought Berto, he's gonna be in a world of trouble. It'd probably be a replay of Floyd's fight with Hatton.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Xception2ThRule @ Sep 9 2011, 06:44 PM) *
Um, he chose to move up to 154 and fight Oscar De La Hoya, who really put him on the map and made him a megastar. You think he was going to fight Margarito instead? LOL. Not to mention, Margarito lost to Paul Williams shortly thereafter, so in addition to beating a bunch of nobodies and not being known to a general boxing audience, Margarito decreased his value further.


he told Arum he wanted a 20 million dollar guarantee for De La Hoya. how do you know he didn't price himself out and use De La Hoya as an excuse to leave Arum and not have to fight Margarito and Cotto?
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 9 2011, 06:13 PM) *
Brian Kenny didn't think Floyd was ducking Baldomir. He just questioned - and rightly so - why Floyd was fighting Zab coming off a LOSS. If I recall, Kenny said something like, 'Why not just fight Baldomir for the belts?" Nobody thought that was a fight Floyd was avoiding. The fight people wanted Floyd to take then was Margarito, who was less than a year removed from turning heads when he made Cintron cry like a baby in the ring.


Not so sure. I recall most experts picking Gatti. He was coming off the pasting of that Danish pastry and people felt like the Floyd brutalization aside he was the same old Arturo. Either way my point is, Baldomir was NOT considered by most knowledgeable boxing fans to be a competitive opponent for Mayweather based off the upset of Judah.


These boards are the only place I've talked boxing with folks consistently for the past 10 years, so I'm sure that's right.

Bottom line: Nobody with boxing knowledge considered Baldomir legit. He just had the belts.


Margarito was an unknown quantity to a general boxing audience, and even now, largely still is. The only reason he probably is more known (infamous) now is because of the Plaster of Paris he got caught with. Your argument for wanting Floyd to face Margarito is because he made Kermit Cintron cry like a baby? First of all, it doesn't take much to make Kermit Cintron cry, and Kermit Cintron was and is a nobody. Who else did Margarito beat besides a nobody in Kermit Cintron to deserve a shot?

I will agree with you that the hardcore boxing fans wanted to see Floyd face Margarito. Instead, he chose to face Baldomir for the WBC and was projected to bank more than the $8 million he was supposedly offered to fight Margarito. After that, Floyd moved up to 154 to face Oscar...

I can't really criticize Floyd for the opponents he fought. Like someone else said, if he fought Margarito and then moved up to face Oscar, you guys would be saying he ducked the TRUE CHAMP at Welterweight in Carlos Baldomir...
Cshel86
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Sep 9 2011, 06:52 PM) *
Speakin' of Ortiz, I watched his fight against Berto again (HBO On Demand) and I came to the conclusion that if he fights Floyd the same way he fought Berto, he's gonna be in a world of trouble. It'd probably be a replay of Floyd's fight with Hatton.


+1


Im wondering how the hell Ortiz handled Berto for the first 5 rounds, then almost threw the fight in the 6th round no2.gif
Prov0
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Sep 9 2011, 05:52 PM) *
Speakin' of Ortiz, I watched his fight against Berto again (HBO On Demand) and I came to the conclusion that if he fights Floyd the same way he fought Berto, he's gonna be in a world of trouble. It'd probably be a replay of Floyd's fight with Hatton.


lol i just finishd watching it again on HBO on demand.i think this fight goes no more than 7 .Ortiz is getting Destroyed
flazi
I think us as fight fans expect too much of our favorite and hated fighters. At the end of the day these guys are only human just like us and they have the right to look out for themselves (picking higher money fights) just like we do (picking higher paying jobs). They put themselves to hell in training and in the fight and even if we hate them we at least should respect the work and dedication they put into it. Any fight could be their last. Who am i to say that floyd is crazy for wanting manny to test? who am i to say that manny is crazy for not accepting? would i accept? would i ask the same floyd is asking? would i go up 10lbs in weight to face a known puncher? would i rematch someone who gave me my toughest fight? would i work for less or work for the same amount of money as someone who i know i am better than? would i work with a promoteror company that i think is giving me the short end of the stick?
Any of these guys would die in the ring for our entertainment yet we ridicule and put them down.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Sep 9 2011, 06:47 PM) *
Yes you beauty!! I was hoping to see that in this thread! Floyd and his fans favourite! Why should Floyd fight A, A been beat off B and B got beat off C. A, B and C aint shit.


A, B, C are three variables. Help me figure out how what I said has ANYTHING to do with what you're implying. I said Margarito's stock went down because in addition to beating a bunch of nobodies and not being a well-known quantity, he lost a fight.
Eighty88Eight
no, floyd's not a coward. I'm sure he wouldn't hold up long to punishment though.
Xception2ThRule
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 9 2011, 07:14 PM) *
I think us as fight fans expect too much of our favorite and hated fighters. At the end of the day these guys are only human just like us and they have the right to look out for themselves (picking higher money fights) just like we do (picking higher paying jobs). They put themselves to hell in training and in the fight and even if we hate them we at least should respect the work and dedication they put into it. Any fight could be their last. Who am i to say that floyd is crazy for wanting manny to test? who am i to say that manny is crazy for not accepting? would i accept? would i ask the same floyd is asking? would i go up 10lbs in weight to face a known puncher? would i rematch someone who gave me my toughest fight? would i work for less or work for the same amount of money as someone who i know i am better than? would i work with a promoteror company that i think is giving me the short end of the stick?
Any of these guys would die in the ring for our entertainment yet we ridicule and put them down.


+1. Exactly what I've been trying to get it. As fight fans, we ASSUME too much and actually know very little. At the end of the day, you're not the one getting into the ring anyway. Your opinion on a situation is just that, an opinion.

Now as a fight fan, it's fine to love and hate certain fighters and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. Just don't pretend you're privy to a situation and know all the facts, and then spout outrageous shit off of your uninformed, often false opinion and assumptions. How can anyone who risks their own life in the ring be seen as a "coward" is beyond me.

Well, I take that one back...after seeing Kermit THE FROG, it is definitely possible. smile.gif
flazi
he doesn't have to. Some guys are built for it and other aren't. you have to play to your strengths. the name of the game is hit and not be hit not to see who can hold up the longest to punishment. Chuvalo is the exception lol.
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