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pesticid
I think he fared much better than Victor and slightly better than Mosley. Victor was at 165 and still got walked down. Shane was coming from a solid victory over Margartio and got shut out, looking to survive. Marquez got shut out too, but he was still charging and there was never any quit in him. I also don't think Mayweather landed as many flush right hands on him as he did against Mosley.

I mean should we expect Marquez to be really competitive with Pacman now?
Fitz
It's really hard to gauge because Mayweather carried Marquez for the fight and was no where near as aggressive as he was against Mosley and Ortiz. Mayweather carried Marquez, so it's hard to judge.
pesticid
I don't think JMM got carried, I thought Mosley got carried. I mean Mosley was looking to tap gloves and all of that and Marquez was still coming throwing good shots even though he was missing with them. Floyd was trying to hurt him and he bloodied him up but he wasn't able to really push him and walk him down like he did against Mosley and Ortiz. I think obviously Marquez is on a compeltely different skill level than both Mosley and Ortiz. JMM is faster too. I think Mayweather may have respected him for that a little more and have taken a more cautious approach because in all honesty he didn't give a damn about Mosley's skills and Victor presented absolutely no trouble.
Fitz
Nah, didn't see that at all. I saw Marquez get carried hard.

Surely Mayweather didn't respect Baldomir's skills? Yet he carried him and cruised to a 12 round decision. Mayweather has done this in the past, and doesn't surprise me it appeared that way with Marquez. He should have got him out of there.
pimpfighterROQ
No he didnt get carried...you can clearly quote Mayweather saying he tried for the knockout but he was a tough customer blah blah.
HazConvictedFelonMane
Marquez is still a legitmate threat to Pacquiao. Before the media tried to build Pacquiao up as the fighter to beat Floyd, they should've pressed him to settle things with Juan Manue Marquez. If Floyd would've prolonged the rematch with Castillo for 3 years, he would've been crucified. Manny ducks a guy that people say he lost to for 3 years, but it's ok. Manny moved up in weight to avoid the fight with Marquez. Manny tried to stay as far away from Marquez for as long as he could, fighting guys that were bigger, but would put up less of a fight. Handle that business with Marquez Mr. Pacquiao, take those tests, and knuck if you buck bitch.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 19 2011, 05:30 PM) *
Nah, didn't see that at all. I saw Marquez get carried hard.

Surely Mayweather didn't respect Baldomir's skills? Yet he carried him and cruised to a 12 round decision. Mayweather has done this in the past, and doesn't surprise me it appeared that way with Marquez. He should have got him out of there.



Agreed, Marquez got carried in that fight in a weight division he had no business being at. I don't expect Manny to be as merciful and you will see what should happen to Marquez once he goes north of 135 pounds.
TheFonz
Pac is going KO Marquez this time around, sorry guys.
Cshel86
Marquez is only as good as he believes he is. If he believes he has what it takes to settle the score with Pacquiao, then I will give him that much. He is coming in with the confidence of knowing that he won more rounds than Pac in the first two fights, but those knockdowns told the story and nearly overshadowed his progress on the cards.

He is one of the most technically sound Mexican fighters that I've ever had the privilege of watching, but his face has taken too much punishment since the Pac rematch. He fought guys that he was clearly better than, and still took unnecessary punishment. If he can stay off his back during the fight and his face holds up, then we are in for a good scrap.
Big Slim Sweet
Mayweather carried Marquez from about the 4th round on in their fight.
wolterb
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Sep 19 2011, 09:22 AM) *
Marquez is only as good as he believes he is. If he believes he has what it takes to settle the score with Pacquiao, then I will give him that much. He is coming in with the confidence of knowing that he won more rounds than Pac in the first two fights, but those knockdowns told the story and nearly overshadowed his progress on the cards.

He is one of the most technically sound Mexican fighters that I've ever had the privilege of watching, but his face has taken too much punishment since the Pac rematch. He fought guys that he was clearly better than, and still took unnecessary punishment. If he can stay off his back during the fight and his face holds up, then we are in for a good scrap.


for sure. only thing that marquez was winnin with in those fights was his innate timing and well choiced punching...if he still has his timing he will catch manny with some good ones i'd think. but he might not be able to take a good punch anymore either...its up in the air imo
Cshel86
QUOTE (wolterb @ Sep 19 2011, 01:49 PM) *
for sure. only thing that marquez was winnin with in those fights was his innate timing and well choiced punching...if he still has his timing he will catch manny with some good ones i'd think. but he might not be able to take a good punch anymore either...its up in the air imo

I wouldn't doubt that he could still take punch, but can he stay on his feet afterwards? If he can withstand it, then he wont disappoint us in regards to making it a fight. Lately his face has been a mafnet for punches, but the only factor is hoping that his face holds up. He still has his timing as far as punches, but he needs a little more help with head moment at this point of his career where absorbing punches is beyond detrimental.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Sep 19 2011, 07:14 AM) *
Pac is going KO Marquez this time around, sorry guys.


Like he did in the previous two fights?
kidbazooka1
I don't think Floyd carried Marquez he knew his reputation for being KD and coming back strong so he didn't eant to take any chances. Despite the size difference Floyd had a lot of respect for JMM.
BGv2.0
Nobody loves JMM more than I do....but I'm sorry fellas....as much as I hate to say it....I think he gets beat up UGLY this time around.

He's been thru too many tough fights since their last meeting....

The fights with Casamayor, PBF and let's not forget the two brutal fights with Diaz...for sure the first....

I just think he's been in too many wars since their last outing.

AND...at the higher weight...which I do not think JMM brings a lot with him at this weight...

NOPE...hate to say it but I think it ends in a mid-later round stoppage by Pac-Man.
TheFonz
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Sep 19 2011, 02:00 PM) *
Like he did in the previous two fights?


A LOT has happened since the last fight, Mr. Outdated Avatar. Pac has gotten a lot bigger, Marquez has gotten a lot older and has taken a lot of punishment....
checkleft
Considering I am convinced his tune up was completely fixed, I would have to say hes on the decline. I'm pretty sure he's done and he just wants one last big pay day. Too bad he got the threematch so late, he's one of the great Mexican fighters of all time.
sduck
He schooled Pacquiao in the last two fights, even making Pacquiao do a lot worse in the second fight. It's amazing how people really believe he'll get destroyed this time around. All because Pacquiao is physically a bit bigger now, and beat a bunch of tailor-made opponents? And Marquez was easily beat by FMJ at this weight? He didn't even lose to FMJ because of weight. And he looked fairly decent in his last couple of fights, not including Ramos.

People also forget that both Pacquiao and Marquez weighed in the 140s in both their fights. Pacquaio even outweighed Marquez in both fights, outweighed him by 4lbs in the second fight.
King Eugene
Floyd carried Marquez to get some rounds in and knock off some rust. Manny is going to absolutely destroy Marquez.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Sep 19 2011, 08:06 PM) *
Floyd carried Marquez to get some rounds in and knock off some rust. Manny is going to absolutely destroy Marquez.


I agree 100% with both points.
Big Slim Sweet
I think Marquez will win rounds off Pacquiao for sure, same as he always has. That's IF he can last however.

In both previous fights Manny came this close to knocking him out early.

This time around I think he does it. Pac KO 3.
mrchitown
I think JMM is still good at those lighter weiht classes but he's going to get steam rolled by Pacquio
PColeman28
JMM gets his block knocked off by rd 5...i think JMM is still a good fighter, but this time around Pacman is too much for him IMO
sduck
lawl if you all seriously believe so. I'd put money on it and say it'd go the distance. I won't really put money on it, but you get the idea.

Btw, Manny did not come completely close to knocking him out. In the first fight, Pacquiao knocked him down three times the first round. Marquez easily got up, adjusted rounds after, and then outboxed him for most of the fight, and concluded it to a draw. It was only a draw because of the knockdowns.
In the second fight while attacking, Marquez was knocked down in the third round by a angled left he didn't see coming. He then continued to outbox Pacquiao for the rest of the fight. Pacquiao did WORSE this fight compared to the first fight. And that was 4 years worth of improvement, coming off his sensational dominating wins over Morales and Barrera, while still outweighing Marquez, at the SAME weight they'll be fighting now. And everyone knows Marquez won this fight.

Not saying Marquez will beat him this time, but it definitely will go the distance. Marquez will be knocked down, but he won't be knocked out. He's too tough of a fighter with a solid chin. He's been craving for this fight for years, he knows how to fight Pacquiao and is determined to win.
TheFonz
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 20 2011, 01:26 AM) *
lawl if you all seriously believe so. I'd put money on it and say it'd go the distance. I won't really put money on it, but you get the idea.

Btw, Manny did not come completely close to knocking him out. In the first fight, Pacquiao knocked him down three times the first round. Marquez easily got up, adjusted rounds after, and then outboxed him for most of the fight, and concluded it to a draw. It was only a draw because of the knockdowns.
In the second fight while attacking, Marquez was knocked down in the third round by a angled left he didn't see coming. He then continued to outbox Pacquiao for the rest of the fight. Pacquiao did WORSE this fight compared to the first fight. And that was 4 years worth of improvement, coming off his sensational dominating wins over Morales and Barrera, while still outweighing Marquez, at the SAME weight they'll be fighting now. And everyone knows Marquez won this fight.

Not saying Marquez will beat him this time, but it definitely will go the distance. Marquez will be knocked down, but he won't be knocked out. He's too tough of a fighter with a solid chin. He's been craving for this fight for years, he knows how to fight Pacquiao and is determined to win.



If Juan Diaz and fucking Katsidis can pin Marquez up against ropes and have deal out real punishment to Marquez for the majority of a fight. Pac will TKO the all time great. Just the way it is.
sduck
Funny how you try to easily justify that when you got other examples like Barrera arguably coming close to beating Marquez, and even knocked down Marquez, while at around the same times Pacquiao walked right through Barrera twice.

In preparations for their second fight, Pacquiao was supposed to be the bigger and a more improved fighter, but did a lot worse compared to their first fight. I'm expecting Pacquiao to win this time around, being protected by Top Rank, and receiving suspicious physical gain as such as a PED user, but stylistically, Marquez can keep up with Pacquiao. He has showed it twice, even when being doubted like he is here.

If there were a stoppage, it would most-likely be because of bad bruising or cuts/bleeding. There was plenty of that in their fights. Marquez is too skilled and too tough of a fighter to be put to sleep.

Another thing, Marquez was still fighting and hammering them while backed up against the ropes. The same thing happened in his fights with Pacquiao. Pacquiao will have some sessions where he'll brawl and exchange with people, but he's not a complete come-forward-ignore-punishment kind of fighter like Katsidis was.
streetlion1
Mayweather didnt press the fight one bit against Marquez and carried him in the fight....flooring him with a little check hook.
Cshel86
Marquez is gonna surpise everybody and hang in there, I have reason to believe so. Its gonna be an ugly one, but Im sure JMM is gonna at least prove that he can still give Pacman a fight, even if he loses a decision by way of nearly getting beat to submission. I still dont see 'em getting knocked out though.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 20 2011, 12:26 AM) *
lawl if you all seriously believe so. I'd put money on it and say it'd go the distance. I won't really put money on it, but you get the idea.

Not saying Marquez will beat him this time, but it definitely will go the distance. Marquez will be knocked down, but he won't be knocked out.



I have never once took part in a signature bet in all my years on this site....BUT...this is how sure I am it will end by a stoppage...

I will put my signature up for grabs....and let me tell you that's some coveted shit right there because my little office space Micheal Bolton has been pounding his fists non-stop for many, many years! lol
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 20 2011, 12:26 AM) *
lawl if you all seriously believe so. I'd put money on it and say it'd go the distance. I won't really put money on it, but you get the idea.

Btw, Manny did not come completely close to knocking him out. In the first fight, Pacquiao knocked him down three times the first round. Marquez easily got up, adjusted rounds after, and then outboxed him for most of the fight, and concluded it to a draw. It was only a draw because of the knockdowns.
In the second fight while attacking, Marquez was knocked down in the third round by a angled left he didn't see coming. He then continued to outbox Pacquiao for the rest of the fight. Pacquiao did WORSE this fight compared to the first fight. And that was 4 years worth of improvement, coming off his sensational dominating wins over Morales and Barrera, while still outweighing Marquez, at the SAME weight they'll be fighting now. And everyone knows Marquez won this fight.

Not saying Marquez will beat him this time, but it definitely will go the distance. Marquez will be knocked down, but he won't be knocked out. He's too tough of a fighter with a solid chin. He's been craving for this fight for years, he knows how to fight Pacquiao and is determined to win.

In the first fight after the third knockdown Marquez lay there for a second looking up at the ref anticipating the fight to be stopped.

In the second fight he got floored HARD and made it out of the round but was in serious trouble there for a minute.

No one is really disputing how well Marquez did in any of the other rounds, and like I said already in this thread, I expect he'll do pretty well in those rounds here again too. His style matches up perfectly with Manny. But that's IF he can make it out of those early rounds. And this time I don't think he will.

Since the second Pacquiao fight, Marquez has become a much more offensive minded fighter and he takes a lot more fire now in return. He has no choice but to fight this way cause he doesn't have the legs he once did. Juan Diaz put some serious heat on him early in their first fight and Michael Katsidis damn near knocked him out. Yes, Marquez proved his mettle by coming back in both of those fights and scoring the knockout himself but Manny Pacquaio ain't no Juan Diaz or Michael Katsidis.

Marquez is a slow starter, he gets caught a lot, and he can be hurt. As it happens with all fighters who have a well-earned reputation fighting through adversity, eventually the time will come where he gets caught, hurt, and can't fight his way back.

That time is gonna be this fight here. Pacquao KO 3.
sduck
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 20 2011, 11:09 AM) *
I have never once took part in a signature bet in all my years on this site....BUT...this is how sure I am it will end by a stoppage...

I will put my signature up for grabs....and let me tell you that's some coveted shit right there because my little office space Micheal Bolton has been pounding his fists non-stop for many, many years! lol

haha sorry to disappoint but not this time. We can still keep a mutual bet though.

QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 20 2011, 03:17 PM) *
In the first fight after the third knockdown Marquez lay there for a second looking up at the ref anticipating the fight to be stopped.

In the second fight he got floored HARD and made it out of the round but was in serious trouble there for a minute.

No one is really disputing how well Marquez did in any of the other rounds, and like I said already in this thread, I expect he'll do pretty well in those rounds here again too. His style matches up perfectly with Manny. But that's IF he can make it out of those early rounds. And this time I don't think he will.

Since the second Pacquiao fight, Marquez has become a much more offensive minded fighter and he takes a lot more fire now in return. He has no choice but to fight this way cause he doesn't have the legs he once did. Juan Diaz put some serious heat on him early in their first fight and Michael Katsidis damn near knocked him out. Yes, Marquez proved his mettle by coming back in both of those fights and scoring the knockout himself but Manny Pacquaio ain't no Juan Diaz or Michael Katsidis.

Marquez is a slow starter, he gets caught a lot, and he can be hurt. As it happens with all fighters who have a well-earned reputation fighting through adversity, eventually the time will come where he gets caught, hurt, and can't fight his way back.

That time is gonna be this fight here. Pacquao KO 3.

That's very reasonable. I still believe Marquez will take it the distance, but we'll see, can't wait!
Lil-lightsout
Fvcking Juan Diaz had him pretty hurt a few times, JMM is NOT making it the distance. This is not the 130-135 pound Pac, this is the welterweight version. PBF could have stopped him but elected for rounds instead. AND I guarantee you Pac knows how important it is to make a statement in this fight. There is no way he will let this go to the cards. Marquez will try and make it a good fight, but Pac will stop him this time.
RyanTical
I believe Marquez will fair better against Pacquiao than he did against Mayweather.

Reason 1:
Marquez has fought Pacquiao twice before; despite weight division, he is familiar with his style.

Reason 2:
His only REAL Welterweight test was against, who I consider, the best in the division; Floyd Mayweather

Reason 3:
Marquez has a personal vendetta against Pacquiao - all motivation from here on out.
Cshel86
QUOTE (RyanTical @ Sep 20 2011, 08:55 PM) *
I believe Marquez will fair better against Pacquiao than he did against Mayweather.

Reason 1:
Marquez has fought Pacquiao twice before; despite weight division, he is familiar with his style.

Reason 2:
His only REAL Welterweight test was against, who I consider, the best in the division; Floyd Mayweather

Reason 3:
Marquez has a personal vendetta against Pacquiao - all motivation from here on out.

This is a clear indicator that he will hang in there. As long as he can withstand Pac's power (or not be curious as to find out how hard he hits nowadays), then it will be a good scrap.
pesticid
The truth is Pacman hasn't fought anybody as fast or as skilled since he last fought Marquez at 130. Cotto was damaged, Clottey was afraid, Tony was damaged, Mosley was done, DLH was done, Diaz is the worst of them all. Talk all about Marquez taking punches but he never took beatings like Cotto and Tony did, and these guys are on some Phoenix Suns defense. So Pacman might be a little surprised since he hasn't really fought any fast, technically solid counterpunchers who are not afraid to mix it up. I don't see Marquez getting stopped unless Marquez throws everything out the window and wants to brawl.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 20 2011, 09:06 PM) *
haha sorry to disappoint but not this time. We can still keep a mutual bet though.


sduck living up to his name
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