Olympic Style Drug tests have been used in 2 fights thus far. Sugar Shane Mosley dismantled Antonio Margarito. Could he have been juicing at that time? When he fought Floyd Mayweather, we saw a totally different version of Shane Mosley. We saw him fire off in the beginning, only to fade after round 3. It could be because of his age, the long layoff, the over training, or the technical brilliance of Floyd Mayweather (which most will not even acknowledge) but it could be the absence of the sauce. Victor Ortiz was decked by a right hand in round 6 of his fight with Berto, but he managed to beat the count. Berto's right hand looked like it was a much harder shot than the one that KO'd him this past weekend. Could the Olympic tests have something to do with that as well? I'm just wondering if anyone other than myself, has noticed. I truly believe that Olympic Style Testing gets implemented in boxing, then we will see what these fighters are really made of. If anyone out there thinks that the current testing protocol is good enough, then consider this....The NFL is going to implement HGH testing. Football players are at risk for serious injury on a normal day. It's crazy to risk serious injury at the hands of someone that's cheating. Boxing is no different. I believe that if boxing would've had OSDT, Manny Pacquiao would've never made P4P #1. That's just my opinion. What's yours?

Name two people on this site who have refused to acknowledge Mayweathers in ring ability

These people love Pacquiao so much they’re clueless as to who he is in reality. I live here, and I know what the real Pacquiao is.

Floyd was right to demand that Pacquiao take the TEST. The people here know something too but choose to remain tightlipped so as not to damage the image of their national sports icon (which in turn would damage the image of all Filipinos). But believe me, they know something too. There’s something going on.

As Floyd stated in an interview, “someone don’t just get to 25 yrs of age and suddenly become great.” I completely agree. For someone to become great there has to be a “build up” process. Like in a movie there should be a “back story” to everything.
But with Pacquiao he doesn’t have that. Yesterday he wasn’t great and then all of a sudden he’s great. So it’s really shocking. Come November against Marquez it’s time for that “injection” of his again!!

Haggler wasn't recognized as great until later on in his career

What age will we consider BHops prime to be when he finally retires?

Your filipino? Hating on another one? Maan that's dirty dirty. First of all if Pacquiao has been taking steroids, he would've been found out LOONG AGO. No fucking way they would let this little man climb up to the Pound 4 Pound charts with juice on his body. Plus he's Filipino, i doubt they'd cover for him that long if they were actually juicing. Massive media are always around Pacquiao wherever he goes, you'd think someone would blackmail him and discredit him by now..

Plus I thought Pacquiao is too one dimensional? gets hit way too easy? Floyd beats him hands down? Fights in catchweights?? Like Floyd says "Which one is it?". Are you all so amazed that he has to have been taking steroids? Or is he not that good because of all his skills and catchweights?

Wake up, give the guy his credit. If your really a boxing fan and do your research. Most of Pacquiao's fights are fought at 140-145. He rehydrates to that weight. He's just gifted thats all...so is Mayweather. So enjoy these 2 great athletes till they last. Give them their credit


Btw, Philippines have the greatest steroid, enhancing drugs if they can turn a 106 boxer to a full fledged 147 welterweight southpaw that bulldozes everyone he fights..

Oh wait, he fights them at catchweights...and he makes too many mistakes...and he's easy work...

I don't think it's the drug testing....in both fights the drug testing is a common factor, but so is Mayweather and i think it's just that simple mayweather is ridiculous in the ring....Victor looked good to me physically, he looked strong, fast, balance and confident for the first couple of rounds...if testing was the issue he would have came out sluggish, but to me he didn't...in the 3rd round i think reality set in, and about the 4th round for mosely the only difference is shane has too much pride to lose by knock out he rather stick it out 12 rounds than have a KO loss on his record, ortiz just didn't give a damn he wanted out.... i think bhop is past his prime physically but he's very very well in his prime mentally/ring experience.....he just knows how to use what he has to the best of his abilities to give him the best chance to win......he's a fighter, and fighting doesn't change, as you get older you have to adjust certain things about your style, as long as you make the proper adjustments you'll be alright and bhop has done this better than any fighter has before...IMO

Not so long ago a heavyweight boxers peak age was generally regarded to be around the age of 28 and the lower weight classes usually hit their peak slightly earlier....of course this wasn't a 100% concrete fact but by and large it was a pretty reasonable guide. Today fighters either reach their peak a couple of years later or maintain their peak for slightly longer. Probably due to taking lesser fights and fighting fewer rounds.

I mean, when Ali beat Foreman he was 32 and it was deemed as some kinda miracle that a man so old could regain the heavyweight title at such an advanced age. Nowadays 32 ain't shit.

This new breed of "one fighter fans" are a sickening disease on the sport as a whole. They spout the most amazingly ridiculous bias in favour of their hero with one prime agenda, to knock down his perceived biggest challenger. It makes it easier for them to accept that their man God won't face his biggest adversary but if you mention anything negative about Floyd you are either racist or a Pac nuthugger.

even if someone gives floyd too much props they're a gayweather fan, same with pac...but i agree, people have pulled to both fighters as their "hero" so pacquiao can do no wrong and floyd can do no wrong depending on the type of fan you are....but fans are like that...in football they're called bandwagon fans they cheer for whoever won the super bowl the year before lol and jump favorite teams every year...those fans have merged into boxing, the only thing is neither have loss and both are on top of the division so the common fan will pick a side....that's just how it is for any sport

I will say this more people are on the juice than you think.

I tend to agree with what you're saying. I also think the Pacquiao who lost to Morales will show up if Pac take random blood tests. That's why the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight probably will never happen. I'm sure Mayweather can win a clear UD by points to the actual Pac but Floyd wants to win by knock out.

Definitely.



I believe this as well. Wasn't it not too long ago Paul Williams was caught on some peds too, as well as jcc Jr was caught on maskers and no one even paid any attention to it.

I'm glad that nutritionist is making all his fighters take osdt. I think its conte, and he has fighters such as ward Donair and berto.

so ortiz was juicing as well?

Victor Conte?

Mayweather is the biggest advocate of OSDT but he hasn't even really stepped up to the plate yet. i think he only got 3 weeks of testing or less for his fight with Mosley and he wont even get tested year round or force his undercard to get tested. why should fighters making a fraction of what Mayweather gets have to pay for the testing when the only person saying they wont fight without it isn't that serious about it?





Conte lies and schemes so much it's unreal. that Arum line "yesterday i was lying, today i'm telling the truth" is like a metaphor for his life.

Hey!!! Thats a good point and i totally agree with you on your whole assessment

I know of contes past but to take good young fighters like ward and Donair and put them through those tests in order to establish that young stars can take the tests and be successful is a good step.

Plus he's been nothing but successful as a boxing nutritionist and I'm sure after what he did in the Olympics the commissions have had a close eye on him.

I think its a bit farfetched that your almost implying that before Mosley and Ortiz fought Mayweather they were both juicing. It is easy to look like an animal against Berto and Margarito who are both easy to hit and open to big shots. Its a totally different story against Mayweather who makes good fighters look ordinary. With regard to Berto decking Ortiz and him getting up being decked in the heat of the battle is a lot different to being caught cold as Ortiz was by Mayweather after the break (legally may i add), this i think is the reason why Ortiz couldnt even spell his own name after May Ko'd him.

Thats the dumbest defense ive ever heard... So your telling me there isnt a single way to beat a drug test?? i have personally beat a dozen...

So how do you explain Vargas or Mosley on PED? or any other Athlete?? (i.e. Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, etc)


and i like how all the new Posters are tryin to sticc together.. real cute. FAGS.

he wants to have his own anti-doping agency. so he sits back and talks about how bad agencies are and his agency needs to be used instead because of all his insight into doping. ever since his comeback he's just been trying to get as much attention as possible so he can peddle his shit. and no matter what agency they use it's going to cost money for the testing, if the guy advocating it isn't even proving that he's a real supporter of it then it's pointless to pursue.

Intresting idea, but I already know the answer to my next question.

How on earth can you prove this? Or back any of this up?

Or else it just sounds like one of those "everyone's out to take over the world" theories.
Because I have never heard of him saying he was doing his own testing..

http://www.ironmagazine.com/blog/2011/vict...ask-force-vada/

The article says the sponsors will shoulder the costs so in reality he's making nothing but a name for himself with this. So I still don't get your point

Financially, making random testing a standard for even just three weeks before a fight is damn near impossible, at least until a commission of some sort mandates it into contracts or standard procedure or something. I think what Floyd is doing is mostly for negotiation purposes with Pacquiao and perhaps some for legitimate concern that Pacquiao is on something. Nobody really knows. But either way, I find it strange to criticize Floyd's position on OSDT when he is the one fighter that's making moves towards cleaner competition, regardless of his true intentions or how minuscule those moves are.

Well Vargas got caught, Mosley was using previously undetectable stuff, and baseball wasn't testing until a few years ago.

There is really no way to ever know again who is and isn't using. Every athlete as far as I'm concerned is equal parts innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven innocent. Except there really is no way to prove innocence anymore. Never know what's out there...

if someone was genuinely advocating cleaning up the sport of boxing it would be one thing but his intentions are questionable and his actions show no real conviction.

So the fact that he's actually implementing some measure of random style drug testing before fights means nothing? Isn't that more than what anyone else in the sport is doing?

Last time I checked it is.

If one person starts doing it and advocating it...maybe other fighters who are making enough purse money can advocate for their fights and it'll keep spreading and eventually maybe HBO, SHOWTIME etc will start advocating it or something IDK but everything has to start for somewhere, right now floyd is the starting point and it's not making a lot of noise, but we'll have to see what happens 4 years from now....




This is very true we really don't know what's out there anymore...

lol...

If commissions and sanctioning bodies could afford the cost, drug testing I think is a good idea for all fighters.

Jack

USADA gets most of their funding from tax payers, all of their employees still get paid though. and if VADA started getting contracts he'll be getting paid too. and speaking of making a name for himself, don't you think that would help him with his supplement company and career as a S&C coach?



he could still take PEDs after he quit getting tested for his fight with Mosley and i don't think there's any information about testing for his fight with Ortiz. how much is he really implementing and is his motivation really to clean up the sport?

boxing is so far behind in drug testing, i don't even think NSAC verified samples before some UFC guys got busted for having someone piss for them. they can improve their testing but i really don't see OSDT as being the most realistic and effective solution.

I just think it's funny to accuse the guy when the grounds for accusation are applicable to about EVERY BOXER in the game, yet we point the finger at the one guy that is actually taking more stringent tests. Go figure.

In terms of the last two questions:

1) More than any other athlete in the sport.

2) Probably not.

Kinda like you said in the other thread, this comes down to some GOP VS DEMOCRAT bullshit bro....you like FMJ and got his back and others vice versa...all good but it's hard to say that's right for one guy and not the other even if Pacman should have str8 up told FMJ and told Arum to STFU and call FMJ out like a man! Just saying!

i'm not going to say someone is cleaning up the sport if they aren't. how long has this shit been going on and how much has Mayweather done? all he's done is say "take the test". the testing he pays for doesn't even cover his whole camp. if anything he's been trying to make sure Pac is clean, not cleaning up boxing.

Well if it's a matter of what phrase is acceptable, then I'm with you. I wouldn't go as far as saying, "Floyd Mayweather is on a crusade to clean up the steroid heathens of boxing!", but I also wouldn't ignore the fact that he's the only one that's actually implementing stricter testing policies than what's already required. You can still separate his actions from his intentions and the fact remains that he's taken the only action towards cleaner competition, regardless if his true intention lies elsewhere. Acknowledge the action. That's all I'm saying.

Whether or not he's on PEDs is a completely separate matter, but I also think the accusations are a bit weak, unless of course you count Spyder's post in the other thread.

Pacquiao's rise to the top is way more questionable than Mayweather's IMO, but that's neither here nor there. By the way accusations are flying around, I think we should just start assuming that EVERYONE is on steroids from here on out.

i'm not saying he hasn't done anything, what he does is just on a personal level.




i think the problem is some people want it both ways. they'll say Pacquiao just has good matchmaking and then he's accomplished things so great and looks so unstoppable he's to be on PEDs to do what he's done since moving up past 135. boxing does have some questionable drug testing though so i really don't count on any fighterrs being clean fighters. it's like other sports before they cracked down on doping, if other people are doing it and it helps your career as an athlete there's a big temptation to do it. the MLB used to have something like 60% of the league using PEDs.

There is just ZERO excuse that the testing is mad to be so expensive. None.

In that case, I don't even know why we were arguing.




Well, both of them could be true at the same time, no? For me, his recent career is probably the most "suspicious as hell" (that one's for you Ollie) than any other of the elite fighters, but until firm evidence is found, I'll just stick to his matchmaking and catchweight negotiating skills as the reason I think he's overhyped.

I probably know Pacquiao more than most people think I do.

Yes I’m from the same country as Pacquiao. And if I didn’t know something, why would I dislike the man??
It’s not like I’m making money off the internet by tainting his name in forums or something… come on.

I have a friend who used to train with Pacquiao back when Pacquiao wasn’t even making a name yet. They were together for a long time. I’m not gonna mention names, but even Freddie Roach knows this friend of mine that I’m talking about. Freddie boy if you’re reading this, this friend I’m talking about is also connected to Gerry Penalosa (clue, clue).
From time to time this friend of mine still visits Pacquiao whenever he’s training for a fight these days. They don’t train together no more because Pacquiao has leveled up, but they still hang out in the gym and talk.

And this friend of mine doesn’t lie to me. He tells me the things he’s learned from hanging out with Pacquiao and Company. How do I know he’s not lying to me? Coz he’s more than just a friend. Let’s just say he’s like a Frat brother because we belonged in the same organization. So it’s like we had deep roots together. He wouldn’t lie to me.
I’m not hating Pacquiao or anything. I dislike him. Hate and dislike are two different things. I dislike him for not wanting to take OSDT to prove himself once and for all. He is afraid of undergoing OSDT as is apparent believe me. Floyd must have his insiders too, which is why he knew something was going on and demanded that Manny take the test. Floyd is smart and what he is doing is right.

well it do what it do, snoop. only the strong survive. if it make dollars it make sense. if Mayweather was the best he would take the real test. he might be cleaning up 1 opponent a year but he isn't cleaning up the sport.

i haven't seen anything to think he's on PEDs. i don't see the consistency in calling him a lot of hype and then saying he's been so great it'd only be possible with PEDS though. a lot of fighters are overhyped now, it's just the nature of PPV boxing

mayweathers on peds...

How often he fights and whether or not he's "cleaning up the sport" with his testing campaign are separate matters. Unless, I guess, if you make the argument that his fighting so seldom equals less testing procedures and therefore he's not really implementing that many tests to begin with, then maybe. But that's a far reaching "maybe".


Well one could say is that the only reason he's been able to achieve his feats was due to PEDs, and those feats weren't even that great to begin with. Pretty much that he's a guy that can't even achieve overhyped accolades without the help of PEDs. Both would hold true and not contradict each other.

+1.

Seems to me this far that the lame argument against OSDT is not capable of rising above the level of the argument in this post.

Once more, let's focus on the message, not the messenger. If some can't do that, I honestly don't think they can be helped.

P34c3

The Nevada State Athletic Commission is already on the right track with regard to this. A recently passed (and already effective, IIRC) law provides for state funding for Enhanced Drug Testing of pro athletes who would henceforth wish to compete within the state. The law essentially resuscitated a dormant law that had run out of funds, but somewhat enhanced. This time, funding would actually be yanked from a percentage to be charged the promoters from their revenues obtained towards a competition.

P34c3

That's a very obtuse argument. What's politically incorrect, or not being a man about asking your opponent to submit to OSDT along with you, especially in this era of widespread abuse of drugs in sports? And to think that this sweet science of a sport is violent enough as is...

I have no tangible evidence of any fighter using PED's or maskers other than the same media we all have access to. With that in mind, I strongly believe that there are a number of 'great' fighters using enhancement drugs. The fighters whose age is very apparent, like Floyd, Ricky Hatton, or JMM, show the normal declines in speed, strength, weight gain, etc. That's what the body is supposed to do with age, decline. Fighters who have literally increased their strength and speed, among other things, after moving up in weight in their thirties are clearly contradicting normal natural bodily aging processes. Pacquiao is of course the prime example of this. He is without a doubt doing something very secretive and illegal.

On a side note, anyone working with Conte is legitimately suspect. Especially Donaire.