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SENTRAL
We've surely all had them, however long or short we've been watching boxing..  We look at a fighter and we intsntly see something in him, something which makes us believe he is destined for big things.  We boldly predict his rise to super stardom (or at the very least respectable world class levels) and before we take the smug grin of our faces, the boxer we pinned so much hope on gets derailed.  Upset, beaten and exposed.  The predictions, the dreams.  Gone.

I haven't been around here long but the 'old guard' will no doubt remember my sterling prediction concerning a young super talented puncher by the name of David Lemieux.  Well he's my pick.
Does anyone care to add, or perhaps some are too embarrassed to name their failings?

P.S I haven't given up hope on David yet but sssh.
checkleft
I thought Daniel Jacobs was gonna be a force.
BGv2.0
There for awhile I really had very high expectations from Donovan Razor Rudduck. Based on his more than respectible performances with Tyson and the fact that Mike got tossed in the can and would be out of circulation for a time....I REALLY thought he was going to take over the HW divison....I mean..why not, he had it all...a super hard left hook, great overall ability, height and size, an awesome chin....

I really thought he was going to learn from those two losses and become champion.

And then came Halloween night of 1992...it all came crashing down when he fought a guy named Lennox Lewis! AND UGLY....

For those that have never seen the KO of Rudduck by Lewis, it's worth looking up on Youtube.

I HATED LL for that win....so I pinned my hopes on Tony Tucker to take him out....which did not happen as a matter of fact LL floored Tucker for the first time in his career...something a vintage Tyson could not even do.

It was then that I knew who the next King of the HWs would be....and I became a LL fan from that point on.

BUT...despite having to come to terms with the harsh reality of Rudduck's less than steller path...I still kept up wit him and got one of the most exciting fights I'd ever seen with him and Tommy Morrison....a fight that Rudduck lost, but sure made exciting.

after that fight he went on and fought a bunch of nobodies during large spans of inactivity and eventaully retired in 2001.

YEP...Razor Rudduck....that's mine!

I'm sure I can think of a few others....but as far as the standout for what you are asking....he is for sure it.
alaganza
Panchito Bojado was my pick. The kid looked good. Good handspeed, combinations, pretty good chin. I thought he would be great. Until it all came crashing down against JC Rubio if I am not mistaken.

The ridicule from a couple of my buddies was almost unbearable. Except for one of them picked Clifford Etienne and the other picked Dominick Guinn.
Seek
Mikey Garcia. That boy will whoop Gamboa and Donaires ass. Same night even!
KookedKrack
I wouldn't say he has been exposed but I thought Joan Guzman was destined for greatness, too bad the dude is lazy as fuck.
BoxingEinstein

I think Ike Ibeabuchi would have dominated the Heavyweight era of his time. He has a good and improving skill set with each fight. He can box, he had decent defence when he showed it, KO power in both hands, solid jab, quick hands, decent foot speed and showed he has good head movement when doesn't choose to slug it out.

Sadly after what I deemed the fight "Clash Of The Titans" between him and David Tua an instant classic toe to toe brawl, he's gone insane in the head after that fight. It's no secret that the reason deemed is from taking so many punches from the equally as powerful, in his prime David Tua's signature right hooks. Since he's gotten arrested for kidnapping, rape and destruction of property which has all seen him to be in prison to this very day.

Sad to see a fighter with such skill and promise go to waste, that's the hurt business for ya'.
Method
I thought Jonathan Banks was destined for domination.

I thought Willie Gibbs was D4D.

I thought Jeff Lacy was D4D.

I thought Roy Jones was D4D.



SAT ?: Can you guess which name I thew in there for effect?
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (KookedKrack @ Sep 23 2011, 02:17 PM) *
I wouldn't say he has been exposed but I thought Joan Guzman was destined for greatness, too bad the dude is lazy as fuck.


Guzman was the most talented in the 140 division but you got it spot on, his work ethic will always be questioned as it should. He's unprofessional and the lack of dedication is why he is considered a"bust".
Cshel86
My recent on was none other than Devon Alexander. I remember watching him on ESPN a couple of times (cant remember the opponent), then I vividly remember his big fight against Demarcus Corley on the Jones/Trinidad undercard in 2008. There was no doubt in my mind that this guy was going places, and I really harped on his amateur record that consisted of 310 fights. His style wasn't the most dazzling, but I like how he just focused on boxing, and went for the KO when the opportunity was present.

The Witter fight was convincing (though he got hurt for a second), but the Urango fight did it for me! The KO was incredible and shot his marketablilty through the roof (in my opinion). Then came the Kotelnik fight, smh...he didn't look his best, to say the least. I gave him pass, but the lackluster action in the Bradley fight made me back-pedal a bit. Oh was I so excited and bit concerned about the upcoming Matthysse fight, and the results didn't change anything. He was uptight the whole fight and got rocked a few times (especially by the solar plexus shots by Matthysse), along with the 4th round knockdown. I was almost sure Devon was done, but he wiggled his way out of it.

I would've been happy with a draw in that bout, but the decision stood as it did. At this point, I dont get as excited as I once was, but he still has potential and he's still young. All I can do is see how he performs at welterweight from this point on. That was the last prospect that I put time into boosting up.

Good post Sentral!
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 23 2011, 02:19 PM) *
I thought Jonathan Banks was destined for domination.

I thought Willie Gibbs was D4D.

I thought Jeff Lacy was D4D.

I thought Roy Jones was D4D.



SAT ?: Can you guess which name I thew in there for effect?


Add,

I thought Chad Dawson was D4D

I thought Edwin Valero was D4D

I thought Zab Judah was D4D

I thought Miguel Acosta was D4D

I thought Emmanuel Augustus was D4D
Cshel86
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 23 2011, 02:03 PM) *
Panchito Bojado was my pick. The kid looked good. Good handspeed, combinations, pretty good chin. I thought he would be great. Until it all came crashing down against JC Rubio if I am not mistaken.

The ridicule from a couple of my buddies was almost unbearable. Except for one of them picked Clifford Etienne and the other picked Dominick Guinn.

Dominic Guinn! Who could forget about Southern Disaster? Dude just fell off, but he was a beast when he was dedicated to the sport.
Method
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 02:24 PM) *
Add,

I thought Chad Dawson was D4D

I thought Edwin Valero was D4D

I thought Zab Judah was D4D

I thought Miguel Acosta was D4D

I thought Emmanuel Augustus was D4D

I was never as sold on "Not So Bad" Chad.

I was never as sold on Zab.

I was never as sold on Vargas (the FERNANDO kind).

I was never as sold on Tito.

I was never as sold on Cotto.
Method
I was NEVER sold on Dominic Guinn.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 23 2011, 02:29 PM) *
I was never as sold on "Not So Bad" Chad.

I was never as sold on Zab.

I was never as sold on Vargas (the FERNANDO kind).

I was never as sold on Tito.

I was never as sold on Cotto.


How could you not be sold on Zab?? His talent in his prime spoke in itself. He's just a mental midget and Cotto is understandable since he's shown even in his peak years that he can be hurt by a couple of power shots easily via Zab Judah.

Chad Dawson?! The one that worked with Floyd Mayweather Sr. who actually fought aggressive?! C'mon Son!!! LOL!!

I was never sold on Mosley

I was never sold on Margarito

I was never sold on Paul Williams

I was never sold on Ricky Hatton.
Method
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 02:35 PM) *
How could you not be sold on Zab?? His talent in his prime spoke in itself. He's just a mental midget and Cotto is understandable since he's shown even in his peak years that he can be hurt by a couple of power shots easily via Zab Judah.

Chad Dawson?! The one that worked with Floyd Mayweather Sr. who actually fought aggressive?! C'mon Son!!! LOL!!

I was never sold on Mosley

I was never sold on Margarito

I was never sold on Paul Williams

I was never sold on Ricky Hatton.

Because I ALWAYS saw Zab as a mental midget. ALWAYS. Oh, I was never sold on Paul Williams either.

Oh, and I am STILL not sold on Sergio Martinez.

PR316
Ike Ibeabuchi for me was someone I thought would dominate the heavyweight division but looking back now, I think Lennox would have found a way to beat him.

I thought Juanma Lopez would emerge as the best featherweight of the bunch but thats been proven to not be true.

I thought Chad Dawson would definitely be on the p4p lists but he hasn't shown anything IMO that makes him worthy of that. I question his heart and desire and maybe Hopkins will answer that in a few weeks time.



In today's current scene, I'm not sold on the likes of Khan, Gamboa, Kirkland, or Alvarez.

As for guys who I think can be very good if not great, I think Erislandy Lara is actually the BEST at 154 and none of the other top guys wanna fight him.

BGv2.0
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 23 2011, 01:31 PM) *
I was NEVER sold on Dominic Guinn.


I never fell into that trap either....simply because of how lazy he seemed to get in fights he was dominating....very lackluster and too little aggresion to be a champion....even when he had a guy hurt he was content to let him off the hook...and sometimes even get back into the fight.

BUT....to this day...the guy is still good at getting a fighter rounds....he's strudy as hell.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 23 2011, 03:28 PM) *
Ike Ibeabuchi for me was someone I thought would dominate the heavyweight division but looking back now, I think Lennox would have found a way to beat him.

I thought Juanma Lopez would emerge as the best featherweight of the bunch but thats been proven to not be true.

I thought Chad Dawson would definitely be on the p4p lists but he hasn't shown anything IMO that makes him worthy of that. I question his heart and desire and maybe Hopkins will answer that in a few weeks time.



In today's current scene, I'm not sold on the likes of Khan, Gamboa, Kirkland, or Alvarez.

As for guys who I think can be very good if not great, I think Erislandy Lara is actually the BEST at 154 and none of the other top guys wanna fight him.

Ehh,,,Lopez was overrated and kinda protected to me. I think in his fight with Rafa he would've gotten KO'd in the later rounds if Rafa didn't injure his shoulder, he was getting hit consistently and everytime Rafa landed his money shot Juanma would wobble a bit or more.

The Dawson that was more hungrier with Floyd Mayweather Sr. would've KO'd Pascal inside 9 rounds.

Lennox would have probably underestimated Ike and gotten KO'd for it just like he did with Rahman. Ike can box and has brutal KO power, no way prime focused and sane Ike would've lost. It would be a competitive fight but I see Ike with a 10th round TKO and the scorecards I see Lewis winning the early rounds but Ike cleaning up the rest.

You must not watch alot of Ike fights if you think that.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 23 2011, 03:09 PM) *
Because I ALWAYS saw Zab as a mental midget. ALWAYS. Oh, I was never sold on Paul Williams either.

Oh, and I am STILL not sold on Sergio Martinez.


Just because someone has a flaw doesn't mean you can't be sold on them. In that case your not sold on no one then. Every decent, good, average, great and legendary fighter all have flaws in their own way. People think Pryor's flaw was that he recklessly brawls too much, Mayweather doesn't fight in the pocket alot, Duran's heart, etc.

I'm almost sold on Martinez, ever since his rise I liked all his wins except over a alcoholic in Kelly Pavlik. I think Martinez will get better with age like Hopkins and Mayweather but we will see. It's tough because he can't get the other middleweights to fight him. I do berate him for not fighting Pirog or Vanes but instead wants to fight a undefeated but unknown British fighter.

I think Martinez will never fight Pacman but might fight Mayweather if he shows he can sell tickets. He needs to beat the likes of Vanes, Angulo, Lara, maybe some people in the higher weights, and then I'll be completely sold on him. As for now, he needs to keep up the good work.

I'm also not sold on Devon Alexander. rolleyes_anim.gif
Method
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 03:55 PM) *
Just because someone has a flaw doesn't mean you can't be sold on them.

I cna be sold on whatever I want, holmes.

Im sold on three guys right now - FMJ, BH, MP. Period. End.
alaganza
Wasn't there someone on here a couple of years ago that was a big Vivian Harris fan?
PR316
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 03:45 PM) *
Ehh,,,Lopez was overrated and kinda protected to me. I think in his fight with Rafa he would've gotten KO'd in the later rounds if Rafa didn't injure his shoulder, he was getting hit consistently and everytime Rafa landed his money shot Juanma would wobble a bit or more.

The Dawson that was more hungrier with Floyd Mayweather Sr. would've KO'd Pascal inside 9 rounds.

Lennox would have probably underestimated Ike and gotten KO'd for it just like he did with Rahman. Ike can box and has brutal KO power, no way prime focused and sane Ike would've lost. It would be a competitive fight but I see Ike with a 10th round TKO and the scorecards I see Lewis winning the early rounds but Ike cleaning up the rest.

You must not watch alot of Ike fights if you think that.



Lopez definitely was protected. I thought he had room to grow though and tremendous upside. But he's shown absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT since 2008 and he's arguably regressed since then. And judging by the way he blows up in between fights(Goes all the way up to the 150s), it doesn't appear to be that he's the most commited guy. As for the fight with Rafa, Juanma was still dominating him but he was clearly tired and if Marquez was able to weather the storm, he would have had a chance at a late stoppage, for sure.

Dawson had maybe 1 or 2 performances that impressed me and thats it. I just don't see him as having the heart and killer instinct of a true great fighter. He treats every fight like a sparring session and against Hopkins he's gonna be out of his element when he gets drawn into an alley fight.

No way Ike woulda beat a focused and PREPARED Lennox. Lewis would have used his height and reach to great effect and he'd keep Ike at bay. And once he zeros in on the right hand, I don't see Ike being able to cope. Lennox may not have KO'd him, but he was the more skilled guy. Smarter. And more experienced at the top level. Ike was very good but probably a bit overrated. He was more potential than anything else.
Mean Mister Mustard
I thought Lamont and Anthony Peterson were both going to dominate the Lightweight and Junior Welterweight divisions. The dudes can bang on the inside and since they're relatively tall, I assumed that they could box from the outside as well, thus making them a double threat. Well it turns out Anthony got beat at his own game against Rios, and could not outbox him either, and Lamont got outboxed by the shorter Bradley. They can still improve, but I don't think they're going to be dominating the best in the world.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 23 2011, 04:02 PM) *
I cna be sold on whatever I want, holmes.

Im sold on three guys right now - FMJ, BH, MP. Period. End.


You are absolutely right, and I agree on your 3 boxers your sold on so, likewise on that aspect.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 23 2011, 04:39 PM) *
Lopez definitely was protected. I thought he had room to grow though and tremendous upside. But he's shown absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT since 2008 and he's arguably regressed since then. And judging by the way he blows up in between fights(Goes all the way up to the 150s), it doesn't appear to be that he's the most commited guy. As for the fight with Rafa, Juanma was still dominating him but he was clearly tired and if Marquez was able to weather the storm, he would have had a chance at a late stoppage, for sure.

Dawson had maybe 1 or 2 performances that impressed me and thats it. I just don't see him as having the heart and killer instinct of a true great fighter. He treats every fight like a sparring session and against Hopkins he's gonna be out of his element when he gets drawn into an alley fight.

No way Ike woulda beat a focused and PREPARED Lennox. Lewis would have used his height and reach to great effect and he'd keep Ike at bay. And once he zeros in on the right hand, I don't see Ike being able to cope. Lennox may not have KO'd him, but he was the more skilled guy. Smarter. And more experienced at the top level. Ike was very good but probably a bit overrated. He was more potential than anything else.


Then we agree on 2 things just not this 1.

Lewis was prepared and mentally focused against Rahman and guess what?! He overlooked him and got stopped. He overlooked him because he was easily outboxing Rahman and gaining rounds but all it took was 1 punch to change everything. I see the same thing happing with Ike. Rahman was 6'2 with a 84' reach, Ike was 6'2 with a 76 reach but he has faster hands than Rahman and a better chin. In his fights he's shown he can box or slug it out. Lewis would outbox him in the first 5 rounds or 6 but from there Ike starts ducking Lewis' left jabs and coming in with his quick right hooks to either Lewis' body or chin. No way Lewis' outboxes him for 12 rounds, not with a guy who has 10x the KO power Rahman has or maybe even more power than Vitali in his prime.
Big Slim Sweet
Michael Grant for me. I thought he was going to own the heavyweight division.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 23 2011, 04:42 PM) *
I thought Lamont and Anthony Peterson were both going to dominate the Lightweight and Junior Welterweight divisions. The dudes can bang on the inside and since they're relatively tall, I assumed that they could box from the outside as well, thus making them a double threat. Well it turns out Anthony got beat at his own game against Rios, and could not outbox him either, and Lamont got outboxed by the shorter Bradley. They can still improve, but I don't think they're going to be dominating the best in the world.


Agreed on the Peterson Bros. hopeful D4D. Too bad there are just better opposition out there, Lamont is more promising than Anthony who got bullied by Rios. btw Rios is one tough muthafucka for taking all those shots to the groins and still putting on a dominating performance without complaining at all. I must do a article on Rios.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 03:55 PM) *
Then we agree on 2 things just not this 1.

Lewis was prepared and mentally focused against Rahman and guess what?! He overlooked him and got stopped. He overlooked him because he was easily outboxing Rahman and gaining rounds but all it took was 1 punch to change everything. I see the same thing happing with Ike. Rahman was 6'2 with a 84' reach, Ike was 6'2 with a 76 reach but he has faster hands than Rahman and a better chin. In his fights he's shown he can box or slug it out. Lewis would outbox him in the first 5 rounds or 6 but from there Ike starts ducking Lewis' left jabs and coming in with his quick right hooks to either Lewis' body or chin. No way Lewis' outboxes him for 12 rounds, not with a guy who has 10x the KO power Rahman has or maybe even more power than Vitali in his prime.

Lewis was not mentally focused nor physically prepared the first time he fought Rahman and it was clear as early as his walk to the ring. Just as it was clear as early as his walk to the ring in their rematch that he was extremely focused and prepared.

Lewis would have never come into a fight with Ike the way he did that first fight with Rahman. He would have come in the way he did with Tua. He would have frustrated Ike and increasingly caught with more and more overhand rights. Knowing what we know now, which was that Ike was mentally unstable maniac, I have no doubt in my mind he would have folded one way or another, either submitting to a sustained beating or finding a way out of the fight, a la Holy-Tyson 2.

10 times the KO power of Rahman? How'd you deduct that?
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 23 2011, 05:05 PM) *
Lewis was not mentally focused nor physically prepared the first time he fought Rahman and it was clear as early as his walk to the ring. Just as it was clear as early as his walk to the ring in their rematch that he was extremely focused and prepared.

Lewis would have never come into a fight with Ike the way he did that first fight with Rahman. He would have come in the way he did with Tua. He would have frustrated Ike and increasingly caught with more and more overhand rights. Knowing what we know now, which was that Ike was mentally unstable maniac, I have no doubt in my mind he would have folded one way or another, either submitting to a sustained beating or finding a way out of the fight, a la Holy-Tyson 2.

10 times the KO power of Rahman? How'd you deduct that?


That is just a rumour that he wasn't training properly and notice when people lose most of the time a rumour swells out of the camp of the loser that the trainer didn't train properly. I doubted he didn't train properly or wasn't mentally focused I just believe he overlooked Rahman and payed for it. It showed in the fight when Lewis was outboxing Rahman and was ahead on all the score cards. All it took was Lewis to fuck around and then he got put to bed by 1 punch from a guy who's KO ratio had 75% at the time and who was knocked out by the same man Ike defeated in a war. Lewis' chin will always be questioned and against Ike who was quicker than Rahman and had a way better chin than Rahman would've gotten to Lewis and KO'd him. Ike's KO ratio at his prime was 89% and Ike never was insane until after he fought Tua. Let Lewis fight the Ike before Tua and I guarantee yes, Lewis will outbox for the early round but end up getting stopped late. Ike never gets discouraged and Tua who hits harder than Lewis, Ike would have walked through most of his shots.

Watch more Ike fights.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 24 2011, 09:25 AM) *
That is just a rumour that he wasn't training properly and notice when people lose most of the time a rumour swells out of the camp of the loser that the trainer didn't train properly. I doubted he didn't train properly or wasn't mentally focused I just believe he overlooked Rahman and payed for it. It showed in the fight when Lewis was outboxing Rahman and was ahead on all the score cards. All it took was Lewis to fuck around and then he got put to bed by 1 punch from a guy who's KO ratio had 75% at the time and who was knocked out by the same man Ike defeated in a war. Lewis' chin will always be questioned and against Ike who was quicker than Rahman and had a way better chin than Rahman would've gotten to Lewis and KO'd him. Ike's KO ratio at his prime was 89% and Ike never was insane until after he fought Tua. Let Lewis fight the Ike before Tua and I guarantee yes, Lewis will outbox for the early round but end up getting stopped late. Ike never gets discouraged and Tua who hits harder than Lewis, Ike would have walked through most of his shots.

Watch more Ike fights.


I won big on a bet I placed on the first Lewis/Rahman fight and living in London I got even better odds. there were actually a few 'tip offs'as to why Lewis could lose that fight.

Firstly they were fighting at altitude in South Africa, having watched the All Blacks play rugby there over the years I knew that the altitude factor must be respected because it is very draining on athletes. Rahman arrived something insane like months early to prepare himself for this whereas lewis decided to arrive I think on the week of the fight. big mistake.

Second he was busy out in Vegas filming his cameo on oceans, never a good sign when a guy is spending more time on a movie set than in the gym and lastly he came in the heaviest of his career for this fight, a BIG indicator that he wasn't taking it so seriously. Curiously enough the only time he came in heavier was 2 3 fights later against V. Klit.

Of course I also bet big on Lewis in the rematch which he won with ease.

I don't think he would've come in to fight Ibeabuchi in anything other than tip top shape. Personally I'm still convinced that Tua won that fight 7 rounds to 5. Ibeabuchi was good no doubt but his legend has somewhat expanded due to his being stuck in the slammer IMHO.

Destined for Domination? Although he did dominate for a short while I guess at the time I never saw the drop off in Tyson come so fast. I also thought Riddick Bowe would dominate for longer.

What's the criteria, guys who were destined but never quite made it to the top? I might actually throw Tua in there right after he blew Ruiz out of the water. Sure I knew he would never be the second coming of Tyson but I did think he would win a strap and be involved in more title fights than the paltry one against Lewis.
Cshel86
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 23 2011, 04:25 PM) *
Wasn't there someone on here a couple of years ago that was a big Vivian Harris fan?


Oh God, I hope not. If there were/are a fan, I hope they remain inconspicuous. Carlous Maussa exposed him big time, or maybe he gassed during the fight...either way, he was exposed.


QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 23 2011, 04:42 PM) *
I thought Lamont and Anthony Peterson were both going to dominate the Lightweight and Junior Welterweight divisions. The dudes can bang on the inside and since they're relatively tall, I assumed that they could box from the outside as well, thus making them a double threat. Well it turns out Anthony got beat at his own game against Rios, and could not outbox him either, and Lamont got outboxed by the shorter Bradley. They can still improve, but I don't think they're going to be dominating the best in the world.


Ah man, who can forget about the Peterson brothers. They were promising prospects, but Anthony got his paper stapled against Rios last year. I cant take much away from Lamont for the loss to Bradley, and I actually commend him on his efforts even when his opponent is getting the best of him (i.e. the Ortiz fight). You are right, they can still improve, but Anthony may not get the point and end up on the back burner because his discipline is shit.
alaganza
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 05:25 PM) *
That is just a rumour that he wasn't training properly and notice when people lose most of the time a rumour swells out of the camp of the loser that the trainer didn't train properly. I doubted he didn't train properly or wasn't mentally focused I just believe he overlooked Rahman and payed for it. It showed in the fight when Lewis was outboxing Rahman and was ahead on all the score cards. All it took was Lewis to fuck around and then he got put to bed by 1 punch from a guy who's KO ratio had 75% at the time and who was knocked out by the same man Ike defeated in a war. Lewis' chin will always be questioned and against Ike who was quicker than Rahman and had a way better chin than Rahman would've gotten to Lewis and KO'd him. Ike's KO ratio at his prime was 89% and Ike never was insane until after he fought Tua. Let Lewis fight the Ike before Tua and I guarantee yes, Lewis will outbox for the early round but end up getting stopped late. Ike never gets discouraged and Tua who hits harder than Lewis, Ike would have walked through most of his shots.

Watch more Ike fights.


How could he overlook his opponent and still be mentally focused?

As for your assessment of the fight, it's not out of the question that Ike could have stopped Lewis late. He had good handspeed and very good power. And the other thing is he just kept throwing punches.
blackbelt2003
Sad to say, but Audley Harrison.


I actually thought dude had what it took to claim a belt in a lacklustre heavyweight division, in fact I thought he was a lock.


Skills, speed, size and ever-improving power....but it all fell apart.



I still actually expected him to show us something vs David Haye...but only now do I realise he was a big amateur sham all along.




Shame on me.




Black
alaganza
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Sep 23 2011, 06:34 PM) *
Sad to say, but Audley Harrison.


I actually thought dude had what it took to claim a belt in a lacklustre heavyweight division, in fact I thought he was a lock.


Skills, speed, size and ever-improving power....but it all fell apart.



I still actually expected him to show us something vs David Haye...but only now do I realise he was a big amateur sham all along.




Shame on me.




Black


No shame. I was in the boat with you on that.
JONdaCON817
unfortunately Prince Naseem feels that way to me... i actually dont think he ended up better then a B level fighter... The way he would show off and was so fun to watch... he was juss a bit of a disappoint... he was still a good fighter IMO but i figured he woulda been around a bit longer...

i agree with The Peterson Bros...

JuanMa was deff one of them... smh..

JONdaCON817
who knows if Tim Bradley will be showing up on this list if he doesnt stop fuccing around... which reminds me...

DEVON ALEXANDER.... disappointing.
Cshel86
...still not sold on:

Jessie Vargas
Mike Jones
Andre Ward (sorry guys)
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 23 2011, 04:25 PM) *
That is just a rumour that he wasn't training properly and notice when people lose most of the time a rumour swells out of the camp of the loser that the trainer didn't train properly. I doubted he didn't train properly or wasn't mentally focused I just believe he overlooked Rahman and payed for it. It showed in the fight when Lewis was outboxing Rahman and was ahead on all the score cards. All it took was Lewis to fuck around and then he got put to bed by 1 punch from a guy who's KO ratio had 75% at the time and who was knocked out by the same man Ike defeated in a war. Lewis' chin will always be questioned and against Ike who was quicker than Rahman and had a way better chin than Rahman would've gotten to Lewis and KO'd him. Ike's KO ratio at his prime was 89% and Ike never was insane until after he fought Tua. Let Lewis fight the Ike before Tua and I guarantee yes, Lewis will outbox for the early round but end up getting stopped late. Ike never gets discouraged and Tua who hits harder than Lewis, Ike would have walked through most of his shots.

Watch more Ike fights.

Lewis clearly looked out of shape for that fight and was huffing and puffing by the 2nd or 3rd round. It's not really up for debate whether Lewis was in shape for the fight in South Africa. He was filming Oceans 11 a week before.

I was assuming the version of Ike that LL would have fought would have been after the Tua fight, since barely anybody knew who the hell Ike Ibeabuchi was until after that fight. His record was like 14-0 or something. Sure, Ike was better than people realized then, and I guess it's not out of the question that an unknown Ike had what it would take to surprise an unfocused Lennox and knock him out, the way McCall and Rahman did. But I don't see how that version of Ike ever gets Lewis in the ring in the first place.

And I agree with Ollie - I thought Tua won that fight 7-5. I've watched it probably close to 10 times and have always scored it for Tua.
Michigan Assassin
I guy I liked early on was Matt Korobov on an early TR show. I think he had 6-8 fights but when I saw him I thought his skillset would lead to great things. (still may I guess) But I guess the tricky thing about a topic like this is they may look like world beaters against no-hopers but when they step up they're competition level you get a more accurate representaion of where they stand.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Sep 23 2011, 06:15 PM) *
...still not sold on:

Jessie Vargas
Mike Jones
Andre Ward (sorry guys)


you will burn in hell for this blasphemy..

how bout once he beats Froch and Martinez??
Cshel86
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Sep 23 2011, 10:06 PM) *
you will burn in hell for this blasphemy..

how bout once he beats Froch and Martinez??

Lol, dont give me the third degree about Ward. I believe he beats/gives these guys all they can handle, but Im just saying that Im not a big fan of his. He's living up to his potential, but Im just not sold on him.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 24 2011, 06:39 AM) *
No way Ike woulda beat a focused and PREPARED Lennox. Lewis would have used his height and reach to great effect and he'd keep Ike at bay. And once he zeros in on the right hand, I don't see Ike being able to cope. Lennox may not have KO'd him, but he was the more skilled guy. Smarter. And more experienced at the top level. Ike was very good but probably a bit overrated. He was more potential than anything else.


I pretty much agree on this. A PREPARED Lewis was a very very dangerous man as well as a great boxer.



QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 24 2011, 06:55 AM) *
Lewis was prepared and mentally focused against Rahman and guess what?! He overlooked him and got stopped. He overlooked him because he was easily outboxing Rahman and gaining rounds but all it took was 1 punch to change everything.


I question your Einstein like ability if you seriously think Lennox was prepared in that fight. He came in at a bloated under done 253 & was open for the counter all night from the 2nd round. Easily the worst I have seen Lewis look in a fight with the way he just plodded around after Rahman. A focused Lewis was great at cutting off the ring to get a combination off.

Lewis showed what happens when he is focused & PREPARED in the rematch. I love big Len but the stupid smile he gives before he was KO'd was priceless in that fight .



QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 24 2011, 06:55 AM) *
I see the same thing happing with Ike. Rahman was 6'2 with a 84' reach, Ike was 6'2 with a 76 reach but he has faster hands than Rahman and a better chin. In his fights he's shown he can box or slug it out. Lewis would outbox him in the first 5 rounds or 6 but from there Ike starts ducking Lewis' left jabs and coming in with his quick right hooks to either Lewis' body or chin. No way Lewis' outboxes him for 12 rounds, not with a guy who has 10x the KO power Rahman has or maybe even more power than Vitali in his prime.


I can see some of this argument but when has Lewis ever been KO'd late? He was the heavyweight king of adapting during a fight to win it.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 24 2011, 03:16 PM) *
I can see some of this argument but when has Lewis ever been KO'd late? He was the heavyweight king of adapting during a fight to win it.



As good as he was Ibeabuchi was somewhat one dimensional. It was just a very good dimension! I'm sure he didn't have the ring smarts of Lenny nor the ability to counter with a change in strategy should Lenny change his in the fight.

Ibeabuchi was more like an African Ivan Drago. Haha.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 24 2011, 01:20 PM) *
As good as he was Ibeabuchi was somewhat one dimensional. It was just a very good dimension! I'm sure he didn't have the ring smarts of Lenny nor the ability to counter with a change in strategy should Lenny change his in the fight.

Ibeabuchi was more like an African Ivan Drago. Haha.


Thats the way I see it. If Ike never went to prison (no we are NOT going THERE) he would have become a better fighter I have no doubt about it & would have been the best fight for Lewis around that 2000-2003 period. There will always be a massive ? over Ike because we really don't know what he could have been.
Fitz
Some local ones that I thought could have gone further on the big stage:
  • Anthony Mundine
  • Willie Kickett


  • Brian Viloria
  • Joel Julio


Not ones I thought were the next best thing, but guys I thought would have had a better career.
Big Slim Sweet
Kid Diamond is another one for me. What was his real name, Raimkulov?
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 24 2011, 02:48 AM) *
Kid Diamond is another one for me. What was his real name, Raimkulov?


I remember around 2004, reading about him in Ring Magazine and about how he had given Cory Spinks and Floyd Mayweather tough sparring sessions. Then he drew with Casamayor and I thought "This guy might be the goods". Then he went on to get plastered by Nate Campbell. The guy's defense stunk.
mgrover
calzaghe. when I was 8 or so i used to pretty much think he would destroy anyone at any weight lol but when i got a bit older I started to wonder why the fuck he hadn't fuck anyone of significance since Eubank and when I watched the Hopkins fight I was disgusted. It was mainly my dad who watched him weirdly enough to this day he says he's the best super middleweight ever can't convince him otherwise.
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