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caneman
Joe Cortez got so much heat about the Mayweather/Ortiz fight that he deleted his facebook page!!! laugh.gif I just thought it was funny. I wonder if the powers that be think he is past his better days too? It just seems to me that the last several years Joe has got worse and worse as a ref. Case and point IMO, on the 17th, he should have had both fighters in mutual corners, if he had any question about time left, he should have asked before calling time in(which he never really called time in, he just said let's go, lol), then say fight! He has said "I am firm but fair" for years but these days I think it should be I am too old and lost my mind before each fight! lol Does anyone else think he should never ref a fight again?
BoxingEinstein
All honesty, this should be merged with the Mayweather-Ortiz thread but whatever.

I think Cortez did a horrible job as a ref, he truly disturbed what would've obviously been a longer and a bit more entertaining fight.

What he should have done is deduct 2 points from Ortiz because that's what you do in boxing if a foul is intentional and that was an obvious intentional head butt.
Then he should have gotten a ring side doctor to check on Mayweather.
Then he should have signalled both fighters at their respective corners and check with the timekeeper to see if the round was still going. Then get the fighters to touch gloves and fight.

Either way Cortez has gotten worse as a referee and his retirement will be soon coming, they should have had Tony Weekes who is one of the best ref's in the boxing game.

I still saw the inevitable which would have been a Mayweather TKO or KO middle to late round possibly.
Method
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Sep 26 2011, 12:57 PM) *
All honesty, this should be merged with the Mayweather-Ortiz thread but whatever.

I think Cortez did a horrible job as a ref, he truly disturbed what would've obviously been a longer and a bit more entertaining fight.

What he should have done is deduct 2 points from Ortiz because that's what you do in boxing if a foul is intentional and that was an obvious intentional head butt.
Then he should have gotten a ring side doctor to check on Mayweather.
Then he should have signalled both fighters at their respective corners and check with the timekeeper to see if the round was still going. Then get the fighters to touch gloves and fight.

Either way Cortez has gotten worse as a referee and his retirement will be soon coming, they should have had Tony Weekes who is one of the best ref's in the boxing game.

I still saw the inevitable which would have been a Mayweather TKO or KO middle to late round possibly.

Not that it matters, but did he even offer May the 5 minutes to recover?
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 26 2011, 12:01 PM) *
Not that it matters, but did he even offer May the 5 minutes to recover?


nope
Seek
Ortiz should be ashamed for blaming Joe Cortez. Ortiz is only to blame by making an amature move and not one professional in boxing will disagree with that. This is the nature of boxing and whether or not Floyd or Cortez coulda or shoulda done something differently, Ortiz broke the number one rule in boxing is to protect yourself at all times.
Cshel86
Joe Cortez got some disturbing news about his mother passing, after the fight. So at that point, Im almost sure that he didn't give a rat's ass about the biggest naive moment of Ortiz's career. That was supposed to be his night to shine or at least make some type of effective statement, but he managed to fill the moment with another one of his "let me make the world second-guess me" stunts. If I got news that mother died that night, and I had to two fucks to give...I wouldn't have even given Ortiz one, simply because of stupidity.

I read it in an article last week, but unfortunately, I cant find it at the moment. Here's a short video clip for confirmation though.
Jack 1000
Here is an article from the LA Times with an interview from Cortez after the fight:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dwyre-...9.column?page=1

I was confused, because I did not hear any verbal commands, and his hand signals were weak. He took his eyes off the fighters after supposedly calling time in and that is where I have the strongest concerns.

I won't merger this with the big post-fight thread, because I will allow a discussion of Cortez's performance in other fights for this thread, where we can question, are his best days long gone, or did he just have a bad night?

Jack

Administrator
BGv2.0
Is there a whole laundry list of things Joe COULD have done better....without doubt!

However...i still think it's important to remember that this fight was ended on a sucker punch....

So you can blame Joe for bad officiating....blame Ortiz for fouling and thus causing retaliation....

But at the end of the day Floyd is the person in the ring that ended the bout.

Floyd and nobody else decided to end the fight on a sucker punch.



Just like everybody can sit here and say Joe should have done this or that....Well....Floyd could have decided to let Ortiz off with the left hook and not go through with the follow up right.

The whole damn thing was F'D.

Joe's bad officiating, Ortiz's headbutt....none of that caused the main event to end early....Floyd's sucker punch did.

So it's really hard for me to place all the blame on anybody....there is more than enough to go around.

If I had to quantify it...I'd say 25% Victor's Fault followed by 15% Cortiz...and 60% Floyd.

Bad officiating played a role, no doubt as did a foul....but at the end of the day...the self-proclaimed Best Ever ended the fight with a legal sucker punch.

jlupi
cortez failed to ask MW if he was ok, failed to get between the fighters and definitively restart the match, and most importantly failed to pay attention after a major foul in which he knows retaliation may take place. was it an off night? ask Soto when he was disqualified for hitting Lorenzo while he had a knee down with a punch that never happened.
Cshel86
Seems like the media is trying to sweep Ortiz's foul under the rug, when it was his actions that got this whole fiasco started. He blew his own chances, now he wants everybody to sympathize with him...Im beginning to wonder when Ortiz became such a pussy dntknw.gif
caneman
I think it's time for Cortez to retire no matter what, over the last few years I noticed he has too become part of the action and has messed up some fights because of it! Sorry about his Mom though! BTW, I think Ortiz got what he had coming to him but that doesn't cortez called the fight the way he should have, I mean look how he dived in on Kirkland right on his knee to stop that fight and there are many other fights, we all loss a step sooner or later and old Joe has lost several IMO!
Jack 1000
QUOTE (jlupi @ Sep 26 2011, 03:15 PM) *
cortez failed to ask MW if he was ok, failed to get between the fighters and definitively restart the match, and most importantly failed to pay attention after a major foul in which he knows retaliation may take place. was it an off night? ask Soto when he was disqualified for hitting Lorenzo while he had a knee down with a punch that never happened.



I just thought of Soto-Lorenzo I. That night was Cortez's all time worst! It makes Cortez in Mayweather-Ortiz almost a moot point when compared to Soto-Lorenzso I

Jack
Cshel86
QUOTE (caneman @ Sep 26 2011, 04:56 PM) *
I think it's time for Cortez to retire no matter what, over the last few years I noticed he has too become part of the action and has messed up some fights because of it! Sorry about his Mom though! BTW, I think Ortiz got what he had coming to him but that doesn't cortez called the fight the way he should have, I mean look how he dived in on Kirkland right on his knee to stop that fight and there are many other fights, we all loss a step sooner or later and old Joe has lost several IMO!

Yeah, good ol' Cortez is losing his step. Im used to him being annoying and intrusive, but last Saturday was a new look for him on a bad night. Looking back on some of those fights, doesn't really help him state his case. It might be that time for him to hang up that good ol' blue shirt and bowtie. Lol

QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 26 2011, 05:39 PM) *
I just thought of Soto-Lorenzo I. That night was Cortez's all time worst! It makes Cortez in Mayweather-Ortiz almost a moot point when compared to Soto-Lorenzso I

Jack

Man Soto/Lorenzo was a freakin' travesty to say the least. Lampley blew his top and almost lost his voice! Lampley's reaction was classic, and very funny might I add.
Snoop
Cortez been sucking for quite some time now. He's always struck me as the ref that wanted part of the limelight, hence his stupidass tagline. But if he really did lose his mother (before or after the fight?), then I feel bad for him. He still sucks as a ref though.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Snoop @ Sep 26 2011, 06:35 PM) *
Cortez been sucking for quite some time now. He's always struck me as the ref that wanted part of the limelight, hence his stupidass tagline. But if he really did lose his mother (before or after the fight?), then I feel bad for him. He still sucks as a ref though.

+1
Prov0
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Sep 26 2011, 03:32 PM) *
Seems like the media is trying to sweep Ortiz's foul under the rug, when it was his actions that got this whole fiasco started. He blew his own chances, now he wants everybody to sympathize with him...Im beginning to wonder when Ortiz became such a pussy dntknw.gif


Exactly ! Cortez told Ortiz 3 times before that incident in that round watch your head".
then yelled at him Dont do that u dont do that " took Ortiz to the corner walked away and said LETS GO and he looked at the time table saying u start it.
It was Ortiz fault for kissing so much ass.

i dont see why everyone is tryin to Blame Floyd or Cortez .Ortiz got what he Deserved during the whole fight he was trying to use his head .
daprofessor
joe did nothing wrong. floyd did nothing wrong. ortiz took it there. don't start none...won't be none. ortiz got what he deserved.

cortez shouldn't get the big fights anymore though. i felt that way before the fight.
torvix3000
Lol! Cortez should have told Floyd not to use his elbow.
Bropho
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 26 2011, 03:02 PM) *
Bad officiating played a role, no doubt as did a foul....but at the end of the day...the self-proclaimed Best Ever ended the fight with a legal sucker punch.

A legal sucker punch? Sounds something like a yes no.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Bropho @ Sep 27 2011, 08:03 AM) *
A legal sucker punch? Sounds something like a yes no.



That's what is was. A legal shot while the guy was not looking.
Cshel86
QUOTE (torvix3000 @ Sep 27 2011, 04:20 AM) *
Lol! Cortez should have told Floyd not to use his elbow.

The fight didn't last long enough to see Floyd using those "notable elbows" down the stretch! Lol
alaganza
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 26 2011, 04:02 PM) *
Is there a whole laundry list of things Joe COULD have done better....without doubt!

However...i still think it's important to remember that this fight was ended on a sucker punch....

So you can blame Joe for bad officiating....blame Ortiz for fouling and thus causing retaliation....

But at the end of the day Floyd is the person in the ring that ended the bout.

Floyd and nobody else decided to end the fight on a sucker punch.



Just like everybody can sit here and say Joe should have done this or that....Well....Floyd could have decided to let Ortiz off with the left hook and not go through with the follow up right.

The whole damn thing was F'D.

Joe's bad officiating, Ortiz's headbutt....none of that caused the main event to end early....Floyd's sucker punch did.

So it's really hard for me to place all the blame on anybody....there is more than enough to go around.

If I had to quantify it...I'd say 25% Victor's Fault followed by 15% Cortiz...and 60% Floyd.

Bad officiating played a role, no doubt as did a foul....but at the end of the day...the self-proclaimed Best Ever ended the fight with a legal sucker punch.


I agree with a good bit of this post. I guess the only part I am concerned with is it seems there is a double standard here. How can the guy who blatantly fouled be given less fault then the guy who landed a legal punch?

Does every ref say fight as they are bringing their hands together. Some say "Let's go". Heck even Mills Lane used to say "Let's get it on". I heard Cortez say "Come on let's go" and he brought his hands together to signal the fight to commence. At that point if you are the fighter in the ring who cares what Cortez is looking at after that? You're supposed to be focused on the guy across from you that's trying to punch you in the face. The whole ordeal started because of Ortiz' illegal headbutt.

It could be that I am misunderstanding the context of your post. If so, please explain.
sduck
At first I thought Cortez looks at the corner and says, "Time in" after he initiates the fighters to resume, but I watched the fight again last night on HBO in HD, and he asks the ringside, "Bell ring?." He got confused and though the round was supposed to be over right then... After Cortez says, "Let's go" and gives the hand signal for both fighters to continue, HBO shows the timer in which the time and fight was continued.... Okay, so I don't understand what Cortez did wrong? All I've heard is people say he sucks, he's horrible, but what did he actually do wrong in that moment? And I don't want to hear, "Oh he should of been looking, Floyd could of gouged his eyes out or kicked him!!" Because that didn't happen. And Cortez did see the first punch land, in the corner of his eye, that's why he immediately turned to see the second punch.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 27 2011, 01:18 PM) *
I agree with a good bit of this post. I guess the only part I am concerned with is it seems there is a double standard here. How can the guy who blatantly fouled be given less fault then the guy who landed a legal punch?

Does every ref say fight as they are bringing their hands together. Some say "Let's go". Heck even Mills Lane used to say "Let's get it on". I heard Cortez say "Come on let's go" and he brought his hands together to signal the fight to commence. At that point if you are the fighter in the ring who cares what Cortez is looking at after that? You're supposed to be focused on the guy across from you that's trying to punch you in the face. The whole ordeal started because of Ortiz' illegal headbutt.

It could be that I am misunderstanding the context of your post. If so, please explain.



I'm in no way giving Victor a pass on his dirty headbutt....all I'm pointing out is that the bad reffing or the headbutt is NOT what ended a multi-million dollar main event. A legal sucker punch did.

I give Floyd a complete pass on the left hook as retaliation. IMHO...at that point they were even. A headbutt for a point deduction and a nice dead on left hook...at that point you are reset....Floyd then followed thru with a right that he KNEW was going to more than likely cause major damage and thus end the fight, you can see it in his eyes when he's looking to see if the ref is paying attention.

I assign the higher level of blame on the legal sucker punch because that is what ended the bout prematurely and what cut short a bout that MAY have been interesting. We will never know. It's that empy question mark feeling you have that makes it a shitty outcome.

NOW...I agree with most on here that Ortiz was more likely than not on his way to a loss...but you will NEVER KNOW....due to it being cut short the way it was.

That is why I assign the majority of the blame for a unsatifying conclusion to Floyd. The head butt did not end the fight, nor did the crap reffing of Cortiz....not even the retaliation left hook. The follow up right that he could or could not have let go is what did it...so as a fan that felt suckered out of cash for that end...yes I think the majority of blame does go to Floyd.




Boss723
What happened at the end of the May/Ortiz fight was def. unexpected but if you watch boxing like I do, it wasnt uncommon. The fact that it resulted in a KO was not the norm. I see fighters glance off at the ref, completely stop if they think they had been fouled, hear the 10 second knock and lower their guard all the time. Once they realize that action has not halted the recover fairly quickly, taking minimal damage.

I watched the fight 5+ times, I didnt see any elbows from Floyd. I did give Ortiz the 2nd round, but the 3rd and 4th (before the KO) were a sign of his demise. He couldnt avoid the straight right, he was missing heavily and backing up isnt his MO. That head butt wasnt a retalliation foul, it was a frustration foul. Cortez did say "okay, lets go" and signal the fighters to continue and Floyd COULD have waited for Ortiz to pay attention before throwing punches. Ortiz clearly wasnt looking to win the fight, and if Im Floyd Im gonna take the first opportunity to win this fight instead of taking a chance of him fouling me again causing more/worse damage.

Cortez wasnt horrible......Ortiz was desperate and 100% at fault.......Floyd saw an opening and took it.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 27 2011, 01:18 PM) *
I agree with a good bit of this post. I guess the only part I am concerned with is it seems there is a double standard here. How can the guy who blatantly fouled be given less fault then the guy who landed a legal punch?

Does every ref say fight as they are bringing their hands together. Some say "Let's go". Heck even Mills Lane used to say "Let's get it on". I heard Cortez say "Come on let's go" and he brought his hands together to signal the fight to commence. At that point if you are the fighter in the ring who cares what Cortez is looking at after that? You're supposed to be focused on the guy across from you that's trying to punch you in the face. The whole ordeal started because of Ortiz' illegal headbutt.

It could be that I am misunderstanding the context of your post. If so, please explain.


My recollection is that Mills Lane only said "Let's Get it On!" just before the first bell after his pre-fight instructions, never during the actual fight.

HBO's replay of that 4th round provides a better miking of Cortez's voice after the head-butt and point deduction he says, "Don't do that....let's go." The "Let's go" is very vague and represents the miscommunication of Cortez. Let's go COULD mean Time in, but it also could mean, "keep it clean." There was no clear verbal communication by Cortez to the fighters. It appears the timekeeper, commission, and WBC, understood Cortez's communication. Victor did not, or wasn't paying attention. Maybe he was so busy apologizing that it diverted him from the fight. Victor's focus was on apologizing to Floyd and looking at Cortez and not in thinking, 'Hey, I just blatantly head-butted a guy, I got to keep attention and get my fucking guard up here, because Mayweather may retaliate here, and I got a ref who's head is in the clouds here."

I do agree with Joe on one thing with his quote, "Victor's mistake was being a bad boy" (head-butt) and than being too much of a good boy." (excessive apologizing.) But Joe, that gives NO accountability for YOUR mistake, not taking control of the fighters after the point deduction and clearly yelling "Time in" to avoid confusion. Meanwhile, Floyd could see that Joe was not paying attention, and took advantage with the legal sucker punch.

Jack
alaganza
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 27 2011, 02:49 PM) *
I'm in no way giving Victor a pass on his dirty headbutt....all I'm pointing out is that the bad reffing or the headbutt is NOT what ended a multi-million dollar main event. A legal sucker punch did.

I give Floyd a complete pass on the left hook as retaliation. IMHO...at that point they were even. A headbutt for a point deduction and a nice dead on left hook...at that point you are reset....Floyd then followed thru with a right that he KNEW was going to more than likely cause major damage and thus end the fight, you can see it in his eyes when he's looking to see if the ref is paying attention.

I assign the higher level of blame on the legal sucker punch because that is what ended the bout prematurely and what cut short a bout that MAY have been interesting. We will never know. It's that empy question mark feeling you have that makes it a shitty outcome.

NOW...I agree with most on here that Ortiz was more likely than not on his way to a loss...but you will NEVER KNOW....due to it being cut short the way it was.

That is why I assign the majority of the blame for a unsatifying conclusion to Floyd. The head butt did not end the fight, nor did the crap reffing of Cortiz....not even the retaliation left hook. The follow up right that he could or could not have let go is what did it...so as a fan that felt suckered out of cash for that end...yes I think the majority of blame does go to Floyd.



I understand your point. Thanks for the explanation.
alaganza
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 27 2011, 03:09 PM) *
My recollection is that Mills Lane only said "Let's Get it On!" just before the first bell after his pre-fight instructions, never during the actual fight.

HBO's replay of that 4th round provides a better miking of Cortez's voice after the head-butt and point deduction he says, "Don't do that....let's go." The "Let's go" is very vague and represents the miscommunication of Cortez. Let's go COULD mean Time in, but it also could mean, "keep it clean." There was no clear verbal communication by Cortez to the fighters. It appears the timekeeper, commission, and WBC, understood Cortez's communication. Victor did not, or wasn't paying attention. Maybe he was so busy apologizing that it diverted him from the fight. Victor's focus was on apologizing to Floyd and looking at Cortez and not in thinking, 'Hey, I just blatantly head-butted a guy, I got to keep attention and get my fucking guard up here, because Mayweather may retaliate here, and I got a ref who's head is in the clouds here."

I do agree with Joe on one thing with his quote, "Victor's mistake was being a bad boy" (head-butt) and than being too much of a good boy." (excessive apologizing.) But Joe, that gives NO accountability for YOUR mistake, not taking control of the fighters after the point deduction and clearly yelling "Time in" to avoid confusion. Meanwhile, Floyd could see that Joe was not paying attention, and took advantage with the legal sucker punch.

Jack


Jack I hear ya. And I can see how some can see it as you have described. However, I see it differently. I saw the ref motion his hands and say "Let's go". To me that means fight. Now Victor may have been confused or rather more focused on appologizing as you have stated. But I fail to see how his inability to focus on fighting is Cortez' fault. I'm not saying Cortez did the best job of handling the situation. It could have been handled better. But in the end, Ortiz could have handled himself better initially and this would not have been an issue.
jlupi
Ortiz could have handled himself better initially and this would not have been an issue.>>>

true.

Let's go COULD mean Time in, but it also could mean, "keep it clean." There was no clear verbal communication by Cortez to the fighters.>>>>>

true also. the announcers didnt hear him on HBO or British TV, nor did letterman. And MW landed 2 "legal sucker punches" that left a lot of paying cusomers feeling that they got jipped out of some money.

I have softened my stance on MW some. I feel he could have handled the situation more professionally instead of pretending to hug and getting off on a defensless fighter but if the cortez got in between them w a definitive "fight" it prob doesn't happen. and there is no need to mention all that ortiz did wrong.
caneman
To me only time in means time in and the next thing should be fight!
Allmenjoi8
Ortiz is to blame for everything. If he took his beating like a man we would not be talking about it. If Ortiz PROTECTED HIMSELF AT ALL TIMES, Cortez would be irrelevant. When May was head butted he had his hands up a his face away from Ortiz, he waited until Cortez broke them up. If Ortiz after trying to mate with Mayweather got his hands up it would not of mattered. He showed poor boxing skills. Its like driving defensively, you have no idea what the driver ahead of you or in back of you is going to do, but as long as your eyes are on the road and you are doing everyting possible to be a safe driver then you are covering your bases. But if you take your eyes off the road to adjust your radio dail or do something else and someone runs into you, that is your fault. Ortiz took his eyes off the road when a 16 wheeler was coming full speed at him. Cortez was doing his job, Ortiz is the one who checked out. I will not hold any blame to Mayweather or Cortez. Ortiz is soley responsible for the way this fight turned off because if it was anyone else's fault this would not be up for debate. Can't blame the techer if you failed the test.
duwdu
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 27 2011, 12:53 PM) *
That's what is was. A legal shot while the guy was not looking.

If you mean Cortez was not looking, that was true, but Mayweather himself did not know Cortez was not looking, nor was it his place to instruct the referee. If you mean Ortiz was not looking, of course he was looking. He just was not protecting himself, perhaps due to a mental lapse.

P34C3
duwdu
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 27 2011, 02:18 PM) *
I agree with a good bit of this post. I guess the only part I am concerned with is it seems there is a double standard here. How can the guy who blatantly fouled be given less fault then the guy who landed a legal punch?

Does every ref say fight as they are bringing their hands together. Some say "Let's go". Heck even Mills Lane used to say "Let's get it on". I heard Cortez say "Come on let's go" and he brought his hands together to signal the fight to commence. At that point if you are the fighter in the ring who cares what Cortez is looking at after that? You're supposed to be focused on the guy across from you that's trying to punch you in the face. The whole ordeal started because of Ortiz' illegal headbutt.

It could be that I am misunderstanding the context of your post. If so, please explain.

+1.

P34C3
duwdu
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 27 2011, 02:49 PM) *
At first I thought Cortez looks at the corner and says, "Time in" after he initiates the fighters to resume, but I watched the fight again last night on HBO in HD, and he asks the ringside, "Bell ring?." He got confused and though the round was supposed to be over right then... After Cortez says, "Let's go" and gives the hand signal for both fighters to continue, HBO shows the timer in which the time and fight was continued.... Okay, so I don't understand what Cortez did wrong? All I've heard is people say he sucks, he's horrible, but what did he actually do wrong in that moment? And I don't want to hear, "Oh he should of been looking, Floyd could of gouged his eyes out or kicked him!!" Because that didn't happen. And Cortez did see the first punch land, in the corner of his eye, that's why he immediately turned to see the second punch.

Another good piece.

P34C3
duwdu
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 27 2011, 02:49 PM) *
I'm in no way giving Victor a pass on his dirty headbutt....all I'm pointing out is that the bad reffing or the headbutt is NOT what ended a multi-million dollar main event. A legal sucker punch did.

I give Floyd a complete pass on the left hook as retaliation. IMHO...at that point they were even. A headbutt for a point deduction and a nice dead on left hook...at that point you are reset....Floyd then followed thru with a right that he KNEW was going to more than likely cause major damage and thus end the fight, you can see it in his eyes when he's looking to see if the ref is paying attention.

I assign the higher level of blame on the legal sucker punch because that is what ended the bout prematurely and what cut short a bout that MAY have been interesting. We will never know. It's that empy question mark feeling you have that makes it a shitty outcome.

NOW...I agree with most on here that Ortiz was more likely than not on his way to a loss...but you will NEVER KNOW....due to it being cut short the way it was.

That is why I assign the majority of the blame for a unsatifying conclusion to Floyd. The head butt did not end the fight, nor did the crap reffing of Cortiz....not even the retaliation left hook. The follow up right that he could or could not have let go is what did it...so as a fan that felt suckered out of cash for that end...yes I think the majority of blame does go to Floyd.

You are honest enough with some of your points about your emotions, but the part I have highlighted in bold is blatantly untrue.

BTW, would it have been ok with you if the main event was not multimillion dollar, of if you had not paid for it if you did? If so, I will understand your emotions; it would not make your emotions fair though.

P34C3
jlupi
you mean Ortiz was not looking, of course he was looking.>>>

ortiz was NOT looking during the 2nd punch.


A lot of fighters would do the same thing. That doesnt make it right. I know some gen sports fans that bought the fight. They hold no animosity toward MW. They felt it was an unfair cheap shot and ripped off. In this dying sport - people in boxing should care about this.
duwdu
QUOTE (jlupi @ Sep 27 2011, 06:12 PM) *
you mean Ortiz was not looking, of course he was looking.>>>

ortiz was NOT looking during the 2nd punch.


A lot of fighters would do the same thing. That doesnt make it right. I know some gen sports fans that bought the fight. They hold no animosity toward MW. They felt it was an unfair cheap shot and ripped off. In this dying sport - people in boxing should care about this.

That was because the first punch snapped his head in the direction of Cortez, so he could not have managed to have the liberty to look at Floyd before the second punch landed. The one-two was what enabled the KO to be.

I can understand the frustration of which you describe though. However in this hurt business, you better believe some will end quickly and in this way - without unwarranted emotions towards your opponent in the ring, especially when you are being repeatedly fouled. I honestly think you should explain to your gen sports fans that this is no rollerskating or tennis. In actual fact, some general sports fans think boxing addicts are sadists. So? Just saying.

P34C3
BGv2.0
To the two guys on this page trying to remove blame from Floyd...if you do not put ANY blame at all on Floyd..you clearly are simply a Money May fan attemptng to justify a sucker punch crap ending.

I would have thought it was a crap way to end a fight no matter who it would have been...even two nobodies....NOW....I do admit, this ending was more aggrivating for me because I did in fact put money out on it...but I would have thought it wrong by anybody.

And Floyd DID in fact look over to his right before he tossed the punches....go back and watch it until you see it...because it did in fact happen. Had it not I might not be so aggrivated as I would not be 100% sure it was blatant and intended.

Also...as a fan...I would think you would want (as would Floyd) to end it with ZERO doubt.

I do think he was on his way to a win...but with a hard puncher like Ortiz...and how this sport goes..ANYTHING could have been possible.

I would have felt less cheated as a fan with a straight up 7 round TKO or KO with ZERO question marks.

As I said before I do not put ALL of the blame on Floyd...now you might be able to argue the percentage of blame and who is more at fault for what....but to NOT put any blame on Floyd is BLATENT fandom at it's best.

And...as a long time fan...I do look at it on a larger, deeper scale....which as somebody mentioned above....with my sport in a dire state...I really take it a little more personal...when a huge scale fight and a larger than life figure head of the sport dissipoints many possible fans.




alaganza
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 27 2011, 10:44 PM) *
To the two guys on this page trying to remove blame from Floyd...if you do not put ANY blame at all on Floyd..you clearly are simply a Money May fan attemptng to justify a sucker punch crap ending.

I would have thought it was a crap way to end a fight no matter who it would have been...even two nobodies....NOW....I do admit, this ending was more aggrivating for me because I did in fact put money out on it...but I would have thought it wrong by anybody.

And Floyd DID in fact look over to his right before he tossed the punches....go back and watch it until you see it...because it did in fact happen. Had it not I might not be so aggrivated as I would not be 100% sure it was blatant and intended.

Also...as a fan...I would think you would want (as would Floyd) to end it with ZERO doubt.

I do think he was on his way to a win...but with a hard puncher like Ortiz...and how this sport goes..ANYTHING could have been possible.

I would have felt less cheated as a fan with a straight up 7 round TKO or KO with ZERO question marks.

As I said before I do not put ALL of the blame on Floyd...now you might be able to argue the percentage of blame and who is more at fault for what....but to NOT put any blame on Floyd is BLATENT fandom at it's best.

And...as a long time fan...I do look at it on a larger, deeper scale....which as somebody mentioned above....with my sport in a dire state...I really take it a little more personal...when a huge scale fight and a larger than life figure head of the sport dissipoints many possible fans.


I believe it to be very presumptious to consider one a Mayweather fan because they disagree. IF I am one of the guys targeted by your post, I will assure you I am not, nor will I ever be a Mayweather fan. I pulled for Hatton against Mayweather, Shane against Mayweather, Marquez against Mayweather. I was pulling for Ortiz against Mayweather. If the post fight interview would have taken more of a wrong turn I would have been pulling for Merchant against Mayweather.

To your point, as far as fans feeling cheated, I agree. It was a terrible way for the fight to end. And it was terrible for boxing. I think I may have posted that on this site in a different thread. Boxing did not need that ending to a PPV fight. I did not pay for the fight so obviously my frustration level is not that of yours. I just don't agree that Mayweather should shoulder the majority of the blame.

If I was not the one of the targets of your post then I digress. drinks.gif

By the way, you are spot on with Mayweather glancing at Cortez before throwing the sucker punch. It was indeed blatant.
duwdu
BG;

I honestly think you're reading too much into the ending to justify your anger, more so as you have yourself admitted that your having paid to see the fight made it more so. At this point, there's not much more to argue about seeing that you won't be changing your mind soon about what you're feeling. After all, some even compounded their blame game because they failed to even hear the "Let's go" by Cortez. I guess what I'm saying is that, to each his own.

I do find it cheap though that once you're in disagreement with a fellow poster, the other side automatically becomes a fan of the fighter they are defending against your argument. That's like trying to tie a fellow debater's hands.

P34c3
BGv2.0
QUOTE (alaganza @ Sep 27 2011, 11:05 PM) *
I believe it to be very presumptious to consider one a Mayweather fan because they disagree. IF I am one of the guys targeted by your post, I will assure you I am not, nor will I ever be a Mayweather fan.

I just don't agree that Mayweather should shoulder the majority of the blame.

If I was not the one of the targets of your post then I digress. drinks.gif

By the way, you are spot on with Mayweather glancing at Cortez before throwing the sucker punch. It was indeed blatant.



No, no....you were not a person I was responding to. There are a few newer posters that I was addressing and did not feel like going back and quoting all of them so I just responded with a general answer to those folks.

HOWEVER...stick around as you mentioned a very important aspect in your last response.

And it's not so much presumptious as it is logical...

AND YES.....once again I would have to assume ANYBODY that does NOT see May looking at Cortez before the sucker punch is either clouded by fandom or legally blind.....so which is it Duwdu? laugh.gif J/K...sort of.



QUOTE (duwdu @ Sep 28 2011, 06:58 AM) *
BG;

I honestly think you're reading too much into the ending to justify your anger, more so as you have yourself admitted that your having paid to see the fight made it more so. At this point, there's not much more to argue about seeing that you won't be changing your mind soon about what you're feeling. After all, some even compounded their blame game because they failed to even hear the "Let's go" by Cortez. I guess what I'm saying is that, to each his own.

I do find it cheap though that once you're in disagreement with a fellow poster, the other side automatically becomes a fan of the fighter they are defending against your argument. That's like trying to tie a fellow debater's hands.

P34c3



First of all....I think things that are typed lose a lot in translation....I am in no way "Angry"....it's just a boxing match....dissapointed would be a better call.

I did/do feel cheated as a paying fan...not so much to be frothing at the mouth though.

As for the second part of your post...it's as I said above....it's simply logical to assume that people that do not assign not one single ounce of blame toward Floyd must be blinded by fandom. Even Alaganza above...who does not agree with me on the LEVEL of blame appears to at the very least assign some to him. IMHO anybody without any bias for Floyd as a fan would have to assign him some level of blame....to me it's pretty black and white.

So if you are not a fan....I apologize for labeling you as such....but it's the only thing that makes sense in relation to what took place.

For example....I am/was a HUGE Lennox Lewis fan...but I'm big enough to own up to the FACT that he held Micheal Grant's head to an obscene degree in their title fight....Although it's considered a great win for LL...his blatent holding of Grant's head has always bugged me....so if a person asks me did he get that win clean....I have reservations despite the percieved dominant performance.....

This situation is simular because....IMHO...anybody that watched that fight and looks at it for what it was...CANNOT...HONESTLY give a 100% pass to Floyd for the less than steller ending of the fight.

Blaming Cortiz's lack of this or that....Ortiz's lack of this or that.....does not change the fact that the fight was ended on a right hand that could or could not have been thrown. It's not like this was middle of the action type stuff here.

He chose to end the fight on a legal sucker punch, which for me as a hard core fan is unbecoming of a figure head of the sport, umbecoming of a champion and unbecoming of a self proclaimed best ever.....if people want to defend that...as you say....to each his own.
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