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JONdaCON817
Who wins this fight at Welterweight?

Can Devon survive the heavy handed southpaw in his possible first fight at WW??
The CEO
Two dumb B fighters...coin toss with an edge to Ortiz.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (The CEO @ Oct 11 2011, 11:10 AM) *
Two dumb B fighters...coin toss with an edge to Ortiz.


i agree with both of them being Dumb... and deff B level... but ide give Ortiz a B maybe a B+ and Devon would get a B- IMO...

but as trash as both of them are you have to admit itd be fun to watch... this would be almost an Ortiz/Berto 2....
Cshel86
Gotta give this one to Ortiz...especially if he does himself the honors of gaining 17 lbs overnight. Size, power, and pressure will give Devon nightmares, because he lacks the exact factors against him...he has none of the above. His decent speed will help him, but he's bound to tighten up and wear himself down. Definitely worth the watch though...
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Oct 11 2011, 11:19 AM) *
Gotta give this one to Ortiz...especially if he does himself the honors of gaining 17 lbs overnight. Size, power, and pressure will give Devon nightmares, because he lacks the exact factors against him...he has none of the above. His decent speed will help him, but he's bound to tighten up and wear himself down. Definitely worth the watch though...


yeaa.. and with Ortiz walkin Berto down it should be a cakewalk vs Devon and his powerless grunt punches... Devon prolly wont get this fight in St. Louis either...
Cshel86
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Oct 11 2011, 12:29 PM) *
yeaa.. and with Ortiz walkin Berto down it should be a cakewalk vs Devon and his powerless grunt punches... Devon prolly wont get this fight in St. Louis either...

It will be a cakewalk for Ortiz to walk Devon down. Shit, he didn't have too much walking down to do with Berto, because his legs were shot after those breath-taking moments of disbelief on his part that almost put him on his ass in the first round. Then came the 3rd round...as is Berto already didn't have his legs under him, that nasty uppercut by Ortiz just cancelled all of Berto's plans.

Devon is just gonna grunt all night, which gives Ortiz a heads up to know that punch is coming, or he will pitty-pat punch all night and move constantly. Oh yeah, and the St. Louis venue, maybe or maybe not. In my opinion, I believe Ortiz wont be relying on a decision anyhow, so he and his team may not even make a big fuss about it. For Alexander's sake, the fight should be held elsewhere...Im sure his hometown would hate to see him get beat badly, but he sell tickts in St. louis, so he may not have a choice. Oh mind you, this would be an in-house fight since Devon inked with GBP, so they may try to maximize their earnings in St. Louis or Vegas.
dhoward126
I'm rolling with Ortiz here, Devon is going to get stopped in this fight should it happen. Matthysse was tagging his ass all night when they fought in June and being ringside for that fight I can tell you that Alexander was dying in there, I still can't believe they gave that fight to him. Anyway, Ortiz will stop Alexander in six rounds tops but if he doesn't, Alexander has a chance to bark and slap for the rest of the fight and maaaaaay get a decision due to the fact that Ortiz will stop punching after 3-4 rounds and he sees he is not hurting you.
Cshel86
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Oct 11 2011, 01:56 PM) *
I'm rolling with Ortiz here, Devon is going to get stopped in this fight should it happen. Matthysse was tagging his ass all night when they fought in June and being ringside for that fight I can tell you that Alexander was dying in there, I still can't believe they gave that fight to him. Anyway, Ortiz will stop Alexander in six rounds tops but if he doesn't, Alexander has a chance to bark and slap for the rest of the fight and maaaaaay get a decision due to the fact that Ortiz will stop punching after 3-4 rounds and he sees he is not hurting you.

Cant argue with you on this one. I like Alexander as a fighter, and I haven't missed any of his fights as of late, but Ortiz will overwhelm him with ease if he stands there. Moving around will do Devon some good or at least help him last a few more rounds. Since the Kotlenik fight, I've seen that weight bother Alexander, but if he holds up good at WW and does some decent body work against Ortiz, then can buy some rounds and slow him down...if the judges do good by judging body shots.

As for the Matthysse fight, smh, I was almost sure he was gonna get stopped in the 7 or 8 (I believe it was). He was waaaay too uptight in that fight, but did himself a favor by banking those early rounds. Maybe Alexander needs a bad loss (at this point), to help him really get his technique together.

Allowing him to walk around with 2 hometown decisions and that circus he had with Bradley, is gonna hurt 'em big time. Maybe he felt like he needed to "redeem" himself (which I feel he didn't need to) because of the loss to Bradley, then fighting in his hometown, may have worked him up a bit...though I dont believe he lost anything against Bradley, it was just a sour ass fight no matter how you slice it.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Oct 11 2011, 12:56 PM) *
I'm rolling with Ortiz here, Devon is going to get stopped in this fight should it happen. Matthysse was tagging his ass all night when they fought in June and being ringside for that fight I can tell you that Alexander was dying in there, I still can't believe they gave that fight to him. Anyway, Ortiz will stop Alexander in six rounds tops but if he doesn't, Alexander has a chance to bark and slap for the rest of the fight and maaaaaay get a decision due to the fact that Ortiz will stop punching after 3-4 rounds and he sees he is not hurting you.


+1

Spot on D!!.... i agree 100%
checkleft
Ortiz knocks him out or stops him, devons punches are meaningless and he only fights one way. Ortiz will knock him out or stop him. Devon needs a new trainer to teach him how to sit on his punches
dhoward126
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Oct 11 2011, 01:10 PM) *
Cant argue with you on this one. I like Alexander as a fighter, and I haven't missed any of his fights as of late, but Ortiz will overwhelm him with ease if he stands there. Moving around will do Devon some good or at least help him last a few more rounds. Since the Kotlenik fight, I've seen that weight bother Alexander, but if he holds up good at WW and does some decent body work against Ortiz, then can buy some rounds and slow him down...if the judges do good by judging body shots.

As for the Matthysse fight, smh, I was almost sure he was gonna get stopped in the 7 or 8 (I believe it was). He was waaaay too uptight in that fight, but did himself a favor by banking those early rounds. Maybe Alexander needs a bad loss (at this point), to help him really get his technique together.

Allowing him to walk around with 2 hometown decisions and that circus he had with Bradley, is gonna hurt 'em big time. Maybe he felt like he needed to "redeem" himself (which I feel he didn't need to) because of the loss to Bradley, then fighting in his hometown, may have worked him up a bit...though I dont believe he lost anything against Bradley, it was just a sour ass fight no matter how you slice it.


I actually disagree with you on the weight. I see it more that Devon was pushed too quickly and wasn't ready for the level of competition he has been facing. I give him full credit for his accomplishments, but I think the KO against Urango was a fluke and really just sent the hype train for Devon into overdrive. I'll get into this more later, but coffee does awful, awful things to my stomach.
Mean Mister Mustard
Ortiz brings the heat and Alexander can't douse it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Oct 11 2011, 02:23 PM) *
I actually disagree with you on the weight. I see it more that Devon was pushed too quickly and wasn't ready for the level of competition he has been facing. I give him full credit for his accomplishments, but I think the KO against Urango was a fluke and really just sent the hype train for Devon into overdrive. I'll get into this more later, but coffee does awful, awful things to my stomach.

I also agree with the fact that he was pushed a bit too quickly because he hasn't looked the least bit comfortable in his last few fights, but would the blame for that be on his team or the sanctioning bodies? I just want to know your take on that.

Oh yeah...handle your business with that coffee reaction, lol. Just make sure you dont stay in there too long and end up brewing some in the toilet (if you get my drift)! Lol
dhoward126
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Oct 11 2011, 01:44 PM) *
I also agree with the fact that he was pushed a bit too quickly because he hasn't looked the least bit comfortable in his last few fights, but would the blame for that be on his team or the sanctioning bodies? I just want to know your take on that.

Oh yeah...handle your business with that coffee reaction, lol. Just make sure you dont stay in there too long and end up brewing some in the toilet (if you get my drift)! Lol


Done, thank God. Anyway, I wouldn't blame the sanctioning bodies because you know what? The WBC gave Canelo a belt and GBP isn't pushing him into these difficult fights right away like they did with Devon, I think everybody got so excited when he KOd Urango that the disappointing result in the Kotelnik fight resulted in a moot point so they took the fight with Bradley and he got beat in a hideous fight.

If I was managing Alexander, I would've sat him down after the Kotelnik fight and told him that his "0" and belt will be enough to keep him relevant while he's fighting some ho-hum guys, maybe get some of the 135ers with a name to move up and beat them while gaining experience, then maybe fighting a guy like Bredis Prescott (at the time) to say that he beat the man who beat the man (Khan) or even get to Nate Campbell before Victor Ortiz did and beat him with no BS to say he beat another guy Bradley did cleanly. By the time he'd be ready to take the next big step, he'd be in a division that is more wide-open then when he won the belt and notch some big wins against the likes of Erik Morales, Humberto Soto, Kendall Holt etc.

Well, then again Alexander was employed by Don King Promotions, who is easily the graveyard for any young fighter. Ask Tavoris Cloud. That's my two cents on it.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 11 2011, 01:22 PM) *
Ortiz knocks him out or stops him, devons punches are meaningless and he only fights one way. Ortiz will knock him out or stop him. Devon needs a new trainer to teach him how to sit on his punches


+1
Cshel86
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Oct 11 2011, 03:18 PM) *
Done, thank God. Anyway, I wouldn't blame the sanctioning bodies because you know what? The WBC gave Canelo a belt and GBP isn't pushing him into these difficult fights right away like they did with Devon, I think everybody got so excited when he KOd Urango that the disappointing result in the Kotelnik fight resulted in a moot point so they took the fight with Bradley and he got beat in a hideous fight.

If I was managing Alexander, I would've sat him down after the Kotelnik fight and told him that his "0" and belt will be enough to keep him relevant while he's fighting some ho-hum guys, maybe get some of the 135ers with a name to move up and beat them while gaining experience, then maybe fighting a guy like Bredis Prescott (at the time) to say that he beat the man who beat the man (Khan) or even get to Nate Campbell before Victor Ortiz did and beat him with no BS to say he beat another guy Bradley did cleanly. By the time he'd be ready to take the next big step, he'd be in a division that is more wide-open then when he won the belt and notch some big wins against the likes of Erik Morales, Humberto Soto, Kendall Holt etc.

Well, then again Alexander was employed by Don King Promotions, who is easily the graveyard for any young fighter. Ask Tavoris Cloud. That's my two cents on it.

I was gonna bring Canelo's name up when I mentioned the sanctioning bodies, but i wanted to stay on the subject and get the answer i was looking for, lol. Those were pretty good managment tips as far putting him in there with Prescott, Campbell, or Holt. Sounds like Alexander has a new manager, or at least an Asst. Manager from what Im reading in your post. Besides, Kevin Cunningham should focus more on training Alexander, than managing his fights...not saying he did a shitty job as his manager, but Alexander needs a full-time trainer and trainer only, and a full-time manager at this point.

Kevin may feel in his heart that Devon's ready for these bigger fights, but a manager would've done a better job in match-making to at least make some sense of his career thus far. Like you said, beating Prescott to build a fight with Khan, beating Holt without getting knocked down twice to build a bigger fight with Bradley, getting to grandaddy Campbell first, would've done something different with his career. Now I see him having to make up for his last 3 ugly performances against opposition that he may not be ready for yet...simply because he didn't fight safer and meaningful fights in the past.
Allmenjoi8
Ortiz will win if Devon does not use his elbows or headbutts Ortiz. We all know how Ortiz gets when he has to fight dirty fighters. He likes to take matters in his own hands and spear them dead in the face. Maybe this time he will keep his hands up.
EAlbian
unless Alexander was killing him to make 140 or has Tommy Hearns like power @147 I'll give this one to Ortiz. Alexander can't fight on the inside and I dont think he has whats needed to keep Ortiz at bay
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Ortiz beats this dude with ease. Alexander has not been impressive in the last year, and has been overrated by boxing writers and fans (including myself). He's looked like shit his last three fights. Kotelnik beat him, but was robbed, and Bradley just outworked him. He couldn't keep Matthysse off of him, and that was at 140. Ortiz is much bigger and stronger. There is no way Alexander has the power to keep Ortiz off of him. Ortiz isn't slow and plodding like Urango was either, so he won't be as easy to counter. Ortiz would lay straight lefts on this dude all night and would stop him.
thehype
QUOTE (The CEO @ Oct 11 2011, 12:10 PM) *
Two dumb B fighters...coin toss with an edge to Ortiz.


FINALLY....THE CARAVAN HAS COME BACK....TO FIGHTHYPE!

laugh.gif
bnoles4life
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Oct 11 2011, 04:36 PM) *
Ortiz beats this dude with ease. Alexander has not been impressive in the last year, and has been overrated by boxing writers and fans (including myself). He's looked like shit his last three fights. Kotelnik beat him, but was robbed, and Bradley just outworked him. He couldn't keep Matthysse off of him, and that was at 140. Ortiz is much bigger and stronger. There is no way Alexander has the power to keep Ortiz off of him. Ortiz isn't slow and plodding like Urango was either, so he won't be as easy to counter. Ortiz would lay straight lefts on this dude all night and would stop him.


========

Great points, but I can't co-sign the "Ortiz beats him w/ ease". I think Vic beats him, but not easily. Devon, IMO, is better than we're largely giving him credit for. The aforementioned names, aren't garbage pail kids. Kotelnik, while not a "world beater" isn't a part-time rent-a-center employee, either. Dude isn't a bad boxer. As far as Bradley is concerned, who didn't think Bradley was going to win that one w/ better technical ability, experience and of course, that "dome" of his? As Danny eluded, he was too "green" to be in there w/ Bradley. As far as Matthysse is concerned, not many people can keep Mattysse off of them. Erik Morales is lucky Mattysse was injured, b/c he would've "re-retired" him.

Last point, Devon, IMO, gave up mentally against Bradley...I think we all know that. That being said, it's not like that SAME trait isn't lined up and down Ortiz's DNA as well.
King Eugene
QUOTE (The CEO @ Oct 11 2011, 12:10 PM) *
Two dumb B fighters...coin toss with an edge to Ortiz.

Heeeeyyyyyy the Big Homie is back!

I think Ortiz wins a close decision. IMO Alexander is a notch better than Berto.

I still want to see Maidana vs. Ortiz again.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (thehype @ Oct 11 2011, 04:52 PM) *
FINALLY....THE CARAVAN HAS COME BACK....TO FIGHTHYPE!

laugh.gif


Im riding shotgun!!!..... lol



So no one thinks Aelexander has a chance?...lol. looks like the boxing world has wiped its hands clean of Devon... i remember before the Bradley fight how everyone swore he was the next best thing... funny how things change.

speaking of Funny, as anybody seen the Fat Bald Guy, SmartyBeardo??
Seek
This is a very interesting match-up. Both are southpaw and with Devon moving up to 147 should carry speed and power. Matthysse definitely put in more effective work in his fight vs Alexander but I understand why they gave the nod to Alexander. Even though what Devon did wasn't as effective, he was outworking Matthysse and had a much higher punch output but imo is all flash.

NOT an easy fight for Ortiz so get that out of your heads. I see Devon keeping Ortiz at bay with his jab and turning Ortiz all night. He can also land that upper-cut he throws at an angle which knocked out Urango. That will rock anyone especially Ortiz who can be sloppy with his footwork.

This one is a toss up for me. I see a close decision and with the way Cunningham is trashing Ortiz saying they're gonna knock him out like Mayweather did. . . . the blood is boiling and you can guarentee there will be point deductions

I say make it happen
Cshel86
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Oct 12 2011, 01:44 PM) *
i remember before the Bradley fight how everyone swore he was the next best thing...

I was singing that same song as well, then Danny brought light to the world a couple of pages back on this thread...and helped me come to the realization that I was on the "overdriven hype-train of Alexander" after the Urango fight. Denial slowly withered away and I stepped down from the bandwagon...



I had to make a pledge to save me from my own denial and slight stupidity. So I stood up, raised my hand, and pledged...

I Cshel86 will continue to watch Devon Alexander fight, but no longer will I ride nor board the Alexander bandwagon...free ride or not...
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Seek @ Oct 12 2011, 12:59 PM) *
This is a very interesting match-up. Both are southpaw and with Devon moving up to 147 should carry speed and power. Matthysse definitely put in more effective work in his fight vs Alexander but I understand why they gave the nod to Alexander. Even though what Devon did wasn't as effective, he was outworking Matthysse and had a much higher punch output but imo is all flash.

NOT an easy fight for Ortiz so get that out of your heads. I see Devon keeping Ortiz at bay with his jab and turning Ortiz all night. He can also land that upper-cut he throws at an angle which knocked out Urango. That will rock anyone especially Ortiz who can be sloppy with his footwork.

This one is a toss up for me. I see a close decision and with the way Cunningham is trashing Ortiz saying they're gonna knock him out like Mayweather did. . . . the blood is boiling and you can guarentee there will be point deductions

I say make it happen


I agree....I don't see how anyone views this as an "easy" win for Victor....I mean, when was the last "easy" victory anyone has seen from Victor Ortiz? Personally, I can see Devon winning this fight, just as I can see Victor winning it.
Cshel86
Honestly, I didn't even have Alexander beating Ortiz at 140...and thats when I had Alexander giving anybody hell at 140, except for Maidana, and Matthysse...Judah possibly. Ortiz was fighting in a Super Welterweight body at 140, so those left hands, right uppercuts, and that pressure would've spelled nightmares for Devon back then. He just isn't very effective with keeping guys off of him, and we saw that in the Bradley fight...though much didn't happen that night.

We all see how Ortiz pounces on his opponents with all intentions of causing havoc, plus he takes a pretty good punch. Being the fact that Alexander isn't a huge puncher, he can do like Seek said, and use his jab and turn Victor the whole time. The question is, how long can he neutralize that pressure from a bigger/stronger guy? If he can get past the first 5 rounds, then he can have his way and box, but other than that...he will be on suicide watch after the fight is over.
gravytrain
i think Ortiz uses his physical advantages and stops Alexander in 6. Alexander has had some fights he won purely because of bad scoring and he really hasn't looked good since Urango, a big WW isn't the answer for him. he has slapping punches and can't make adjustments, once Ortiz starts having success against him it'll just be a matter of time before an RTD or TKO. i could see him getting his corner to stop it.

Seek
I agree Alexander had a tough time keeping Bradley and Matthysse off of him but then again they are orthodox fighters who have really good right hands which he struggled with avoiding. With Ortiz being a southpaw I can not compare this fight to the others. However Devon looked real good vs Urango who is southpaw. Style-wise I see a very tough fight for Ortiz. I might have to go back and analyze a bit more but from what I can recall, i'm leaning towards a close decision for Alexander.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Oct 12 2011, 03:51 PM) *
I agree Alexander had a tough time keeping Bradley and Matthysse off of him but then again they are orthodox fighters who have really good right hands which he struggled with avoiding. With Ortiz being a southpaw I can not compare this fight to the others. However Devon looked real good vs Urango who is southpaw. Style-wise I see a very tough fight for Ortiz. I might have to go back and analyze a bit more but from what I can recall, i'm leaning towards a close decision for Alexander.

Ortiz has a great right hand for a southpaw, so he has power in both hands. All I can see is Alexander catching a nasty right uppercut on the inside, which isn't his best area anyway. You cant overlook that and the fact that Ortiz wont give 'em any breathing room. As soon as tries to catch a breather or do some work on the inside, he will gladly be greeted with that uppercut.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (cshel86 @ Oct 12 2011, 03:03 PM) *
Ortiz has a great right hand for a southpaw, so he has power in both hands. All I can see is Alexander catching a nasty right uppercut on the inside, which isn't his best area anyway. You cant overlook that and the fact that Ortiz wont give 'em any breathing room. As soon as tries to catch a breather or do some work on the inside, he will gladly be greeted with that uppercut.



I'll co-sign Vic's right hand. He, like Oscar, are naturally right-handed, so they're "off-hand" isn't "off" at all. I think Vic can do some nice work on the inside, should Devon allow him to set up camp on the inside. Personally, I think Devon stays busy w/ his loud jab (ha.....ha...ha, ha, ha....ha) and the occasional straight left, it might frustrate Vic a lil' bit....and we've seen on a couple of occasions how Mr. Ortiz is possible of responding, when frustrated.

I dunno....I like Vic, but I just don't think he's that great against a guy who will give him movement. That's just me.
Lil-lightsout
Ortiz beats Alexander pretty comfortably. Devon would not be able to keep Victor off him.
mrchitown
I could see it going either way, it's definitely not a guarantee W for Ortiz. If Devon can box Ortiz and keep him at bay, he will render Ortiz's aggression ineffective. But if Ortiz can slip Devon's jab and apply pressure then it could be a long night. I slightly favor Ortiz in this one due to his pressure and his power.
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