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PalookaJoe
Today the judge denied Pacquiao's lawyer's request to grant summary judgement, however the judge DID order Floyd's to pay for Manny's legal fees as it relates to those depositions that he missed.

Interesting to see this happen, as I was wondering if there would be any repercussions for him defying the court order. At the time a lot of people suggested that this was no big deal, and that if it was a big deal that the judge would have issued a bench warrant or fined him immediately or whatever.

Surprised it took so long for the judge to respond though.

Any thoughts on this from the rest of the board?

Cshel86
Man I dont know what to say about this shit. This case really needs to be dropped because I dont see it effecting the potential of the fight happening. The only thing thats gonna stop it at this point is the testing issue dntknw.gif
PalookaJoe
well I just think there has to be consequences. You can't just run around and accuse someone of doing something illegal and slander another man's name with no consequences.

Floyd, his dad and uncle have all come out and either subtly or flat out stated that he was on steroids/juice/power pellets (as if no one knows what that means), etc.

Even after the lawsuit was filed, they still did so.

And so many people mocked Manny for the suit, but I look at it like this. Remember when Jose Canseco first came out and accused all these athletes of taking steroids? On sports radio what virtually everyone said (hosts and callers) is that well we'll find out if he's telling the truth, when the people he accused either sues him or doesn't.

If they don't file a lawsuit for slander/libel, then we just assume they're guilty. because otherwise they'd sue. The logic being, if you're guilty and there's a slight chance they have proof, then you do not sue. That's inviting embarrassment, and other things.

So the fact that Manny sued him, I think goes a bit towards at least acknowledging that he may be telling the truth. If he just sat back and didn't sue, but kept saying "I'm innocent, how can he make these baseless accusations against me?" then they would be laughed at and people would say well you're not defending yourself.

I have long felt he shouldn't have to take the test, because it's clear (at least to me) that the whole testing thing is solely aimed at Manny and no one else. Floyd HAS to do testing with everyone NOW, because he made such a big deal about it. But I can't imagine how anyone can really say that the drug testing thing wasn't designed to fuck with Manny.

If he wants to take the test, fine. But I don't think he has to, and I don't think it makes him look guilty if he doesn't. This is a case of someone (Floyd) trying to force his demands on someone else, and that person not having it. For the first time in his career, Floyd is not getting his way, and I don't think he likes it very much.

Which is probably why he blew off the deposition, thinking he was above the law and would just pay whatever fine or sanction they gave him for it.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 10:07 PM) *
well I just think there has to be consequences. You can't just run around and accuse someone of doing something illegal and slander another man's name with no consequences.

Floyd, his dad and uncle have all come out and either subtly or flat out stated that he was on steroids/juice/power pellets (as if no one knows what that means), etc.

Even after the lawsuit was filed, they still did so.

And so many people mocked Manny for the suit, but I look at it like this. Remember when Jose Canseco first came out and accused all these athletes of taking steroids? On sports radio what virtually everyone said (hosts and callers) is that well we'll find out if he's telling the truth, when the people he accused either sues him or doesn't.

If they don't file a lawsuit for slander/libel, then we just assume they're guilty. because otherwise they'd sue. The logic being, if you're guilty and there's a slight chance they have proof, then you do not sue. That's inviting embarrassment, and other things.

So the fact that Manny sued him, I think goes a bit towards at least acknowledging that he may be telling the truth. If he just sat back and didn't sue, but kept saying "I'm innocent, how can he make these baseless accusations against me?" then they would be laughed at and people would say well you're not defending yourself.

I have long felt he shouldn't have to take the test, because it's clear (at least to me) that the whole testing thing is solely aimed at Manny and no one else. Floyd HAS to do testing with everyone NOW, because he made such a big deal about it. But I can't imagine how anyone can really say that the drug testing thing wasn't designed to fuck with Manny.

If he wants to take the test, fine. But I don't think he has to, and I don't think it makes him look guilty if he doesn't. This is a case of someone (Floyd) trying to force his demands on someone else, and that person not having it. For the first time in his career, Floyd is not getting his way, and I don't think he likes it very much.

Which is probably why he blew off the deposition, thinking he was above the law and would just pay whatever fine or sanction they gave him for it.


You do not follow politics or entertainment. People accuse people of doing something all time. Manny did the punk thing and actually took him to court, Ironically the only way Pac could prove that Floyd's claims were false if he and fact took the test. Plus none of floyd's accusations have cost Manny money so slander is out the door.
Cshel86
This was all of Arum's idea to take it to court, Pac probably aint have shit to do with this. I bet his team was making a big deal about it before Pac even thought about getting upset about it. Just my thoughts on it...
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Oct 18 2011, 10:14 PM) *
You do not follow politics or entertainment. People accuse people of doing something all time. Manny did the punk thing and actually took him to court, Ironically the only way Pac could prove that Floyd's claims were false if he and fact took the test. Plus none of floyd's accusations have cost Manny money so slander is out the door.


Thanks for letting me know that I don't follow politics or entertainment. I was under the mistaken impression that I actually DO follow that shit a lot.

Just because a lot of people don't go the courts route, doesn't mean anything. Floyd did something that called into question Manny's entire career. Taking a test does not change that. All that does is say that you weren't on anything during that testing.

Also, the olympic style drug testing is not perfect. How many athletes have gotten busted AFTER the fact, while testing clean for years? How many olympians have come clean years after they retired saying they doped during their careers, and yet were never caught by the drug tests?

So I'll tell you exactly what would have happened if Manny took the tests at the first suggestion. When/if he passed it, and beat Floyd, you would have heard all the calls of "well, look at Marion Jones" who came clean years later but beat all the tests. There would be people talking about how he had something that was undetectable, or he cycled off in time and was still able to have the benefits.

I base that on just listening to all the people who speak in a sense of absolute that Manny is guilty and come up with all these things like "the Phillipines have the best shit" and bullets bounce off the soldiers, and what not that Floyd Sr. has run with.

And if he lost, then it'd be like "Well, he finally couldn't take anything and look at what happened."

He was in a no win situation there. I'm glad he filed a lawsuit. There has to be limitations when you go that direction of intentionally damaging someone's reputation.

There's a line between sharing your opinion and spreading false and malicious lies for which you have ZERO proof only conjecture and hypothesis.

PalookaJoe
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 18 2011, 10:21 PM) *
This was all of Arum's idea to take it to court, Pac probably aint have shit to do with this. I bet his team was making a big deal about it before Pac even thought about getting upset about it. Just my thoughts on it...


Definitely a possibility. I'm not sure what's going on with that whole camp. Not a lot of straight answers coming from them.
zucrates
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 11:07 PM) *
well I just think there has to be consequences. You can't just run around and accuse someone of doing something illegal and slander another man's name with no consequences.

Floyd, his dad and uncle have all come out and either subtly or flat out stated that he was on steroids/juice/power pellets (as if no one knows what that means), etc.

Even after the lawsuit was filed, they still did so.

And so many people mocked Manny for the suit, but I look at it like this. Remember when Jose Canseco first came out and accused all these athletes of taking steroids? On sports radio what virtually everyone said (hosts and callers) is that well we'll find out if he's telling the truth, when the people he accused either sues him or doesn't.

If they don't file a lawsuit for slander/libel, then we just assume they're guilty. because otherwise they'd sue. The logic being, if you're guilty and there's a slight chance they have proof, then you do not sue. That's inviting embarrassment, and other things.

So the fact that Manny sued him, I think goes a bit towards at least acknowledging that he may be telling the truth. If he just sat back and didn't sue, but kept saying "I'm innocent, how can he make these baseless accusations against me?" then they would be laughed at and people would say well you're not defending yourself.

I have long felt he shouldn't have to take the test, because it's clear (at least to me) that the whole testing thing is solely aimed at Manny and no one else. Floyd HAS to do testing with everyone NOW, because he made such a big deal about it. But I can't imagine how anyone can really say that the drug testing thing wasn't designed to fuck with Manny.

If he wants to take the test, fine. But I don't think he has to, and I don't think it makes him look guilty if he doesn't. This is a case of someone (Floyd) trying to force his demands on someone else, and that person not having it. For the first time in his career, Floyd is not getting his way, and I don't think he likes it very much.

Which is probably why he blew off the deposition, thinking he was above the law and would just pay whatever fine or sanction they gave him for it.

With Manny taking it to the court room he should be running to take the test because that would win his case because when you accuse somebody of slander you have to prove it. To me that is how he proves he's been slandered also why didn't he or his team sue Atlas when he talked about that email his friend saw about What happens if Manny comes up dirty could they keep it quiet for boxing. Then how does Manny Fire the accounting firm but not fire Arum when they showed that Manny was being Robbed Do Arum And Knocz Know something? What's up with that since Manny is so straight why would he find out that he's being robbed and he does nothing to the person robbing him but he takes a person to court for talking about him? that just don't add up for me I think Floyd asking for a test is not a problem when you look at Manny's per pound over Fee. When is anybody going to talk about that being crazy if the test are crazy Oh I forgot that is ok because Floyd Forces his Demands on people even if their friends have been caught cheating before. Come ON Man! ED Lovers Voice not_i.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (zucrates @ Oct 18 2011, 11:40 PM) *
With Manny taking it to the court room he should be running to take the test because that would win his case because when you accuse somebody of slander you have to prove it. To me that is how he proves he's been slandered also why didn't he or his team sue Atlas when he talked about that email his friend saw about What happens if Manny comes up dirty could they keep it quiet for boxing. Then how does Manny Fire the accounting firm but not fire Arum when they showed that Manny was being Robbed Do Arum And Knocz Know something? What's up with that since Manny is so straight why would he find out that he's being robbed and he does nothing to the person robbing him but he takes a person to court for talking about him? that just don't add up for me I think Floyd asking for a test is not a problem when you look at Manny's per pound over Fee. When is anybody going to talk about that being crazy if the test are crazy Oh I forgot that is ok because Floyd Forces his Demands on people even if their friends have been caught cheating before. Come ON Man! ED Lovers Voice not_i.gif


BoxingEinstein

Damn it Manny! I like him as a fighter, his relentlessness of his style has gone down a bit but I don't blame him the added fame has made him a bit soft. This shit right here, oh hell naw Manny. You taking your future opponent to court? I've never heard of a fighter did this before. My perspective of his team is already in the shit hole and Arum pretty much get's the meat grinder for his shit, but Manny? Your a grown ass man and your sleeping with the enemy. Your eating off the hands of a man who gives you crumbs and has his other hand in deep in your pockets but yet you sue Floyd for an opinion?? This shit is beyond nuts!! I'm not surprised ESPN didn't cover this as they are pro Pacman but damn this shit is wild. I've lost some respect for Manny for this shit, people in the U.S. still love him and nothing of what Floyd said hurt his income. It's offical Manny is a dumb ass as a man who probably can't think for himself as much as Roach and Arum says he can. This is not looking good for him, I can imagine Floyd being upset but not worried. Obviously someone else is telling him to do this but he's following their instructions which makes him a puppet.

SMH! Real Boxing fans need to knows this, in the history of the sport. Trash talking and opinions were never sued upon till now and Floyd is ordered to pay his legal fees?? C'MON SON!!!! That's a bitch move Manny.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 19 2011, 12:49 AM) *
Damn it Manny! I like him as a fighter, his relentlessness of his style has gone down a bit but I don't blame him the added fame has made him a bit soft. This shit right here, oh hell naw Manny. You taking your future opponent to court? I've never heard of a fighter did this before. My perspective of his team is already in the shit hole and Arum pretty much get's the meat grinder for his shit, but Manny? Your a grown ass man and your sleeping with the enemy. Your eating off the hands of a man who gives you crumbs and has his other hand in deep in your pockets but yet you sue Floyd for an opinion?? This shit is beyond nuts!! I'm not surprised ESPN didn't cover this as they are pro Pacman but damn this shit is wild. I've lost some respect for Manny for this shit, people in the U.S. still love him and nothing of what Floyd said hurt his income. It's offical Manny is a dumb ass as a man who probably can't think for himself as much as Roach and Arum says he can. This is not looking good for him, I can imagine Floyd being upset but not worried. Obviously someone else is telling him to do this but he's following their instructions which makes him a puppet.

SMH! Real Boxing fans need to knows this, in the history of the sport. Trash talking and opinions were never sued upon till now and Floyd is ordered to pay his legal fees?? C'MON SON!!!! That's a bitch move Manny.


Respectfully, I disagree. I think there's a world of difference between sharing your opinions, and stating something as FACT and going on a smear campaign to discredit and defame someone.

If Floyd and his people had couched all their comments with "I BELIEVE.." or "IN MY OPINION..." that'd be one thing. But they took it that extra level by stating unequivocably that he was on performance enhancing drugs.

And you can think it hasn't had an effect on Manny's career, and it's true he's still getting fights and getting money. But his reputation has suffered dramatically.

Look at how he was viewed prior to all this, and then after.

Ever since Floyd "retired" the media started paying attention to Manny and talking about how he was the best pound for pound fighter out there. Floyd didn't appear to take to that too well, and called his comeback fight the DAY of Manny's fight with Hatton.

So many moves he's made has been to counteract Manny. He downtalks everything about the man, he's convinced so many people that Manny is dirty JUST ON HIS SAY SO ALONE!

No proof. No failed tests. Just "I think he's dirty and he won't do what I say and prove me wrong" and people accept it.

I don't like Manny or the people he surrounds himself with. I think he gets away with too much shit like catch weights and fighting people who are "names" but are not real threats to him, and who are coming off of losses to Floyd. I think it's weird how there are so many miscommunications from those in his circle.

I also think that Manny is probably not making all the decisions there. I think he's just a nice guy that allows himself to get run over, because as long as he's got money to help people out where he's from, and as long as he's able to keep fighting and whatnot, he doesn't give a shit. At least that's how I see it.

In this business though nice guys don't win. Which is why Floyd is such a success by being the asshole.

However all that being said, I don't see any reason to say he's taking something unless we get eye witnesses saying so, or a failed test or whatever. Not someone from his circle supposedly sending an email trying to cover their asses because they may or may not have faith in Manny.

This country is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty". not help the accuser make his case for him.

That's like the cops getting mad at you because you won't tell him all the dirt you've been doing. That's THEIR fucking jobs. In this case, it's Floyd's job to back up the slanderous accusations he's been making. Same with Roger and Floyd Sr. And the fact that he's doing everything in his power to not give a deposition, including saying that he can't take a morning off for six months, and that partying in the club and throwing money around is "promo" for the fight" is perhaps an indication that he knows that he can't prove his accusations.

As I said, there's a difference between giving your opinion and stating your opinion as fact.
Slumpage
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 02:09 AM) *
Respectfully, I disagree. I think there's a world of difference between sharing your opinions, and stating something as FACT and going on a smear campaign to discredit and defame someone.

If Floyd and his people had couched all their comments with "I BELIEVE.." or "IN MY OPINION..." that'd be one thing. But they took it that extra level by stating unequivocably that he was on performance enhancing drugs.

And you can think it hasn't had an effect on Manny's career, and it's true he's still getting fights and getting money. But his reputation has suffered dramatically.

Look at how he was viewed prior to all this, and then after.

Ever since Floyd "retired" the media started paying attention to Manny and talking about how he was the best pound for pound fighter out there. Floyd didn't appear to take to that too well, and called his comeback fight the DAY of Manny's fight with Hatton.

So many moves he's made has been to counteract Manny. He downtalks everything about the man, he's convinced so many people that Manny is dirty JUST ON HIS SAY SO ALONE!

No proof. No failed tests. Just "I think he's dirty and he won't do what I say and prove me wrong" and people accept it.

I don't like Manny or the people he surrounds himself with. I think he gets away with too much shit like catch weights and fighting people who are "names" but are not real threats to him, and who are coming off of losses to Floyd. I think it's weird how there are so many miscommunications from those in his circle.

I also think that Manny is probably not making all the decisions there. I think he's just a nice guy that allows himself to get run over, because as long as he's got money to help people out where he's from, and as long as he's able to keep fighting and whatnot, he doesn't give a shit. At least that's how I see it.

In this business though nice guys don't win. Which is why Floyd is such a success by being the asshole.

However all that being said, I don't see any reason to say he's taking something unless we get eye witnesses saying so, or a failed test or whatever. Not someone from his circle supposedly sending an email trying to cover their asses because they may or may not have faith in Manny.

This country is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty". not help the accuser make his case for him.

That's like the cops getting mad at you because you won't tell him all the dirt you've been doing. That's THEIR fucking jobs. In this case, it's Floyd's job to back up the slanderous accusations he's been making. Same with Roger and Floyd Sr. And the fact that he's doing everything in his power to not give a deposition, including saying that he can't take a morning off for six months, and that partying in the club and throwing money around is "promo" for the fight" is perhaps an indication that he knows that he can't prove his accusations.

As I said, there's a difference between giving your opinion and stating your opinion as fact.



When did anyone in Team Mayweather state it as fact? I've only heard it discussed by them as an opinion. Yeah they might be strong in their belief, but they always say something to the effect of, "i think he's on sum shit".

Also, whenever you read or heard about these comments from team Mayweather, understand that they were all direct responses to questions from reporters. So if someone asks you about the negotiations, and what ur opinion is on it, you don't have to precede your sentence with "in my opinion, or I believe" for it to be understood that's its an opinion.

This is further demonstrated when they state, "take the test", it would be slanderous if Floyd had refused to fight Manny citing his roid use as the reason why, but stating that you think he's on PEDS and requesting a test to prove otherwise just isn't slanderous imo.

Manny's reputation only started to suffer after the test refusal and the various reasons/excuses as to why he refused. No one actually bought into the Mayweathers' theories/accusations until Manny refused random testing and started askinng for cut off dates.

Also, it's clear to anyone that team Mayweather have no proof of Manny being on roids, that's why they asked for the test??? Hence why the court case is nonsensical, they never claimed to have any proof, they were asking for it and got refused. Then got sued for asking, lmao!

"innocent till proven guilty" only works if your actually willing to prove it. I mean if you get accused of a crime, know your innocent but REFUSE to entertain going to court or any legal argument, you can't expect everyone to believe your innocent, you were unwilling to prove it. So yeah, Manny's innocent because nothing's been proven, doesn't detract from the fact that he has avoided providing said proof though...
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (Slumpage @ Oct 19 2011, 05:50 AM) *
When did anyone in Team Mayweather state it as fact? I've only heard it discussed by them as an opinion. Yeah they might be strong in their belief, but they always say something to the effect of, "i think he's on sum shit".


Roger Mayweather said the following:

QUOTE
"The only reason Amir Khan has become the fighter he is, is because he’s got those steroids in his ass too. The same thing Pacquiao’s got in him. I know because those motherfuckers told me," Roger retorted.

Bold accusations but to know Roger you shouldn’t be surprised. Pressing him for more details on who exactly was dishing out the info to him, he claims to have gotten close to a few members from Team Pacquiao.

"Motherfuckers from Pacquiao’s camp, that’s who. I talk to them dudes all the time."


http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-las-vega...-is-on-steroids




I'm sure that Manny and his team told Roger that he was taking steroids. lol
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (Slumpage @ Oct 19 2011, 05:50 AM) *
"innocent till proven guilty" only works if your actually willing to prove it. I mean if you get accused of a crime, know your innocent but REFUSE to entertain going to court or any legal argument, you can't expect everyone to believe your innocent, you were unwilling to prove it. So yeah, Manny's innocent because nothing's been proven, doesn't detract from the fact that he has avoided providing said proof though...


That's the dumbest shit ever. Seriously? Do you even understand what Innocent Til Proven Guilty means? It means you are innocent until THEY prove you guilty. not until YOU prove you're innocent.

Otherwise it would be "Guilty until proven innocent" which is what so many people are viewing this as. Manny's guilty until he proves he is clean.

HazConvictedFelonMane
This whole lawsuit thing is gay. Even if he wins the lawsuit, it doesn't prove that Manny is clean. If he wanted a payday that was attached to Floyd Mayweather, he should've took the test and fought. He has to pay for his legal expenses? Well that's a far cry from what the Pacquiao camp wanted to happen. They seem to be so hung up on getting at some of Floyd's money. They were hoping to get a default judgment. In my opinion, all Floyd has to do is show that video of Manny admitting to cheating in 60 Minutes, take some of Emanuel Steward's quotes, take some of Jim Lampley's quotes, and state that those were the grounds for suspicion. It's not like Pacquiao doesn't have a shady background within the sport. He has a shady background that he himself admitted to. These guys act like Manny is the perfect angel and he incapable of any kind of wrongdoing. After Floyd pays Manny's legal fees, they should drop the lawsuit in total. Manny has his own court date to look forward to. Manny's not going to spend one red dime of Floyd's money. He's going to get 650,000, only to pay that same money off to VQ. Honor your contracts Manny.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (HazConvictedFelonMane @ Oct 19 2011, 07:09 AM) *
This whole lawsuit thing is gay. Even if he wins the lawsuit, it doesn't prove that Manny is clean. If he wanted a payday that was attached to Floyd Mayweather, he should've took the test and fought. He has to pay for his legal expenses? Well that's a far cry from what the Pacquiao camp wanted to happen. They seem to be so hung up on getting at some of Floyd's money. They were hoping to get a default judgment. In my opinion, all Floyd has to do is show that video of Manny admitting to cheating in 60 Minutes,


What did he allegedly admit to in 60 minutes? I think if he had admitted in 60 minutes of all places to cheating, then that would be front and center to every story ever written on Manny.
MaxPayne
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 11:07 PM) *
well I just think there has to be consequences. You can't just run around and accuse someone of doing something illegal and slander another man's name with no consequences.

Floyd, his dad and uncle have all come out and either subtly or flat out stated that he was on steroids/juice/power pellets (as if no one knows what that means), etc.

Even after the lawsuit was filed, they still did so.

And so many people mocked Manny for the suit, but I look at it like this. Remember when Jose Canseco first came out and accused all these athletes of taking steroids? On sports radio what virtually everyone said (hosts and callers) is that well we'll find out if he's telling the truth, when the people he accused either sues him or doesn't.

If they don't file a lawsuit for slander/libel, then we just assume they're guilty. because otherwise they'd sue. The logic being, if you're guilty and there's a slight chance they have proof, then you do not sue. That's inviting embarrassment, and other things.

So the fact that Manny sued him, I think goes a bit towards at least acknowledging that he may be telling the truth. If he just sat back and didn't sue, but kept saying "I'm innocent, how can he make these baseless accusations against me?" then they would be laughed at and people would say well you're not defending yourself.

I have long felt he shouldn't have to take the test, because it's clear (at least to me) that the whole testing thing is solely aimed at Manny and no one else. Floyd HAS to do testing with everyone NOW, because he made such a big deal about it. But I can't imagine how anyone can really say that the drug testing thing wasn't designed to fuck with Manny.

If he wants to take the test, fine. But I don't think he has to, and I don't think it makes him look guilty if he doesn't. This is a case of someone (Floyd) trying to force his demands on someone else, and that person not having it. For the first time in his career, Floyd is not getting his way, and I don't think he likes it very much.

Which is probably why he blew off the deposition, thinking he was above the law and would just pay whatever fine or sanction they gave him for it.


Joe, the letter of the law cannot cover insinuations. It is limited to what is actually said by the defendant.

In this case, there are 4 individuals who I can think of, that have actually come out and made directly inflammatory comments and accusations against Manny: Floyd Mayweather Sr. , Roger Mayweather, Teddy Atlas and Paulie Malignaggi.

The closest that Floyd has actually come to saying that Manny is on something is his repeated assertions that it's not natural for someone to go from 106 to the 140's and keep knocking everyone out. Yes, the insinuation there is that Manny is cheating, but guess what ? Under American Law, we're allowed that much protection. This is far from outright slander, no matter how people want to slice and dice it.

If this lawsuit goes on, then Manny is just wasting money on legal fees and is making Floyd do the same. Ultimately, it will get thrown out of court.
MaxPayne
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 02:09 AM) *
Respectfully, I disagree. I think there's a world of difference between sharing your opinions, and stating something as FACT and going on a smear campaign to discredit and defame someone.

If Floyd and his people had couched all their comments with "I BELIEVE.." or "IN MY OPINION..." that'd be one thing. But they took it that extra level by stating unequivocably that he was on performance enhancing drugs.

And you can think it hasn't had an effect on Manny's career, and it's true he's still getting fights and getting money. But his reputation has suffered dramatically.

Look at how he was viewed prior to all this, and then after.

Ever since Floyd "retired" the media started paying attention to Manny and talking about how he was the best pound for pound fighter out there. Floyd didn't appear to take to that too well, and called his comeback fight the DAY of Manny's fight with Hatton.

So many moves he's made has been to counteract Manny. He downtalks everything about the man, he's convinced so many people that Manny is dirty JUST ON HIS SAY SO ALONE!

No proof. No failed tests. Just "I think he's dirty and he won't do what I say and prove me wrong" and people accept it.

I don't like Manny or the people he surrounds himself with. I think he gets away with too much shit like catch weights and fighting people who are "names" but are not real threats to him, and who are coming off of losses to Floyd. I think it's weird how there are so many miscommunications from those in his circle.

I also think that Manny is probably not making all the decisions there. I think he's just a nice guy that allows himself to get run over, because as long as he's got money to help people out where he's from, and as long as he's able to keep fighting and whatnot, he doesn't give a shit. At least that's how I see it.

In this business though nice guys don't win. Which is why Floyd is such a success by being the asshole.

However all that being said, I don't see any reason to say he's taking something unless we get eye witnesses saying so, or a failed test or whatever. Not someone from his circle supposedly sending an email trying to cover their asses because they may or may not have faith in Manny.

This country is supposed to be based on "innocent until proven guilty". not help the accuser make his case for him.

That's like the cops getting mad at you because you won't tell him all the dirt you've been doing. That's THEIR fucking jobs. In this case, it's Floyd's job to back up the slanderous accusations he's been making. Same with Roger and Floyd Sr. And the fact that he's doing everything in his power to not give a deposition, including saying that he can't take a morning off for six months, and that partying in the club and throwing money around is "promo" for the fight" is perhaps an indication that he knows that he can't prove his accusations.

As I said, there's a difference between giving your opinion and stating your opinion as fact.


Once again Joe, the idea of Manny not having failed any testing lends no credence at all to the idea that he may be on steroids. Do you have any idea how many boxers and mixed martial artists have beaten the system ? Do you have any idea how easy it is to beat the porous system that commissions have in place ? It's not even funny.

Boxing history is rife with situations where people have taken anabolic steroids, energy inducers and growth hormones. People who have self-admitted or even been stupid enough to get caught by commission testing include Holyfield, James Toney, Shane Mosley, Vitali Klitscko and Fernando Vargas just to name a few. It's frightening to think about just how proliferated steroid usage is in boxing, and even more so, how easy it is to avoid the paltry testing that is in place.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Oct 19 2011, 07:32 AM) *
Joe, the letter of the law cannot cover insinuations. It is limited to what is actually said by the defendant.

In this case, there are 4 individuals who I can think of, that have actually come out and made directly inflammatory comments and accusations against Manny: Floyd Mayweather Sr. , Roger Mayweather, Teddy Atlas and Paulie Malignaggi.

The closest that Floyd has actually come to saying that Manny is on something is his repeated assertions that it's not natural for someone to go from 106 to the 140's and keep knocking everyone out. Yes, the insinuation there is that Manny is cheating, but guess what ? Under American Law, we're allowed that much protection. This is far from outright slander, no matter how people want to slice and dice it.


In one of his USTREAM videos he said that Manny was "on those power pellets", and as I said before, we all know what that means. Everyone knows that in the Pacman game the power pellets allowed Pacman to eat the ghosts, which normally would have been too strong for him.

So him saying "Pacman is on those power pellets" it's very clear what he's saying.

I agree that the vast majority of the slander has come from Roger and Floyd Sr., but Floyd is to blame as well. And if he truly runs his team like he says, then he could easily go to both of them and tell them to shut up because they're fucking up his money. But he's too proud to do that, and so he continues to skirt that line, occasionally going over it, in an act of defiance in the face of the lawsuit.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Oct 19 2011, 07:39 AM) *
Once again Joe, the idea of Manny not having failed any testing lends no credence at all to the idea that he may be on steroids. Do you have any idea how many boxers and mixed martial artists have beaten the system ? Do you have any idea how easy it is to beat the porous system that commissions have in place ? It's not even funny.


I said the exact same thing as to why Manny taking the test would not satisfy anyone. They would just point to Marion Jones and others who went their entire olympic career getting the exact testing that Floyd is demanding (only year round) and passed every one of them. The only reason they got found out is because someone ratted them out later on, or they came clean on their own.

So therefore, even if Manny passes the tests, Floyd's already done his part to put all that doubt in people's mind, so that the natural response from them would be "well, people have cheated the tests before, I think he's still on something."


Cshel86
Im still curious as to know how people would act if Manny and his team wanted Floyd to "take the test" because they believed that he was on something...being the fact that he is still winning fights. What if Floyd never spoke up about the testing after Pac's team requested it, and Team Mayweather were oh so anxious to speak up for him and say that they aren't gonna do it...or they need a cut-off date? dntknw.gif
MaxPayne
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 08:39 AM) *
In one of his USTREAM videos he said that Manny was "on those power pellets", and as I said before, we all know what that means. Everyone knows that in the Pacman game the power pellets allowed Pacman to eat the ghosts, which normally would have been too strong for him.

So him saying "Pacman is on those power pellets" it's very clear what he's saying.

I agree that the vast majority of the slander has come from Roger and Floyd Sr., but Floyd is to blame as well. And if he truly runs his team like he says, then he could easily go to both of them and tell them to shut up because they're fucking up his money. But he's too proud to do that, and so he continues to skirt that line, occasionally going over it, in an act of defiance in the face of the lawsuit.


Yes, I can see exactly how references to a video game power-up can be equated to steroids. It can be argued in very preliminary hearings that that could have been a reference to anything. Once again, if it ever sees the light of day, the case will get thrown out of court.
MaxPayne
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 08:42 AM) *
I said the exact same thing as to why Manny taking the test would not satisfy anyone. They would just point to Marion Jones and others who went their entire olympic career getting the exact testing that Floyd is demanding (only year round) and passed every one of them. The only reason they got found out is because someone ratted them out later on, or they came clean on their own.

So therefore, even if Manny passes the tests, Floyd's already done his part to put all that doubt in people's mind, so that the natural response from them would be "well, people have cheated the tests before, I think he's still on something."


Marion Jones failed a test for EPO, an energy inducer, back in 2006. Also, growth hormones until recent years have been very difficult to test for, especially some of the more exotic designer steroids that are made to elude testing. We've made a lot of advances in testing and even if the net doesn't catch everything, it can serve as an impediment for the most basic drugs.

MaxPayne
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 19 2011, 09:03 AM) *
Im still curious as to know how people would act if Manny and his team wanted Floyd to "take the test" because they believed that he was on something...being the fact that he is still winning fights. What if Floyd never spoke up about the testing after Pac's team requested it, and Team Mayweather were oh so anxious to speak up for him and say that they aren't gonna do it...or they need a cut-off date? dntknw.gif


That's very true. What I don't understand is this:

Floyd Mayweather is well established as a better revenue generator than Manny (numbers don't lie), and yet, he has seemingly agreed to a 50-50 split.

Manny Pacquiao was also allowed to choose the ring size, the gloves (he wants 8 oz.) and also being able to walk in second.

On top of all of this, Mayweather agreed to a $10 MM per pound penalty in the event that he would not be able to make weight for the fight.

That's effectively 5 clauses that the Mayweather camp freely agreed to, even if at least 3 of them could easily have gone in Floyd's favor.

So Mayweather walks in with a simple stipulation in exchange for these 5 negotiations points, that he wants Olympic style random blood and urine testing conducted by USADA, for the fight.

Pacquiao balks and the talks break down.

You hear some garbled message from them about religious beliefs, pre-fight superstitions and fear of needles. This coming from a guy with multiple tattoos. Right.

Whatever you say man.

Floyd put it best in that interview with Ben. "These boys don't want to fight, because after he takes that loss, it's over for him."
Cshel86
Yeah...at this point, all I can do is chalk it up as Team Pacquiao and Arum doing all of the talking, bumping heads, and running in circles...and Im pretty sure Pac has nothing to do with it. The lawsuit is useless in my opinion, and Floyd and Manny alone are slowly killing the sport of boxing. Of course, they're names alone keep it going, but its making fans either Pro-Mayweather or Pro-Pacquiao, and its sickening as hell.

Man, you would be amazed at how many people I've almost seen come to blows while debating then arguing about these two...and half of those folks hardly watch boxing no2.gif The subject of these two needs to be strictly prohibited...just like religion, politics, salary, and sexual orientation (to name a few) are prohibited in the workplace.
Plah
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Oct 19 2011, 09:23 AM) *
That's very true. What I don't understand is this:

Floyd Mayweather is well established as a better revenue generator than Manny (numbers don't lie), and yet, he has seemingly agreed to a 50-50 split.

Manny Pacquiao was also allowed to choose the ring size, the gloves (he wants 8 oz.) and also being able to walk in second.

On top of all of this, Mayweather agreed to a $10 MM per pound penalty in the event that he would not be able to make weight for the fight.

That's effectively 5 clauses that the Mayweather camp freely agreed to, even if at least 3 of them could easily have gone in Floyd's favor.

So Mayweather walks in with a simple stipulation in exchange for these 5 negotiations points, that he wants Olympic style random blood and urine testing conducted by USADA, for the fight.

Pacquiao balks and the talks break down.

You hear some garbled message from them about religious beliefs, pre-fight superstitions and fear of needles. This coming from a guy with multiple tattoos. Right.

Whatever you say man.

Floyd put it best in that interview with Ben. "These boys don't want to fight, because after he takes that loss, it's over for him."



+1
MaxPayne
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 19 2011, 09:59 AM) *
Yeah...at this point, all I can do is chalk it up as Team Pacquiao and Arum doing all of the talking, bumping heads, and running in circles...and Im pretty sure Pac has nothing to do with it. The lawsuit is useless in my opinion, and Floyd and Manny alone are slowly killing the sport of boxing. Of course, they're names alone keep it going, but its making fans either Pro-Mayweather or Pro-Pacquiao, and its sickening as hell.

Man, you would be amazed at how many people I've almost seen come to blows while debating then arguing about these two...and half of those folks hardly watch boxing no2.gif The subject of these two needs to be strictly prohibited...just like religion, politics, salary, and sexual orientation (to name a few) are prohibited in the workplace.


I agree. Manny Pacquiao isn't the one really calling shots. It's amazing just how much influence Arum and by extension, Koncz, that steaming pile of shit, have over Pacman. Sort of a tragedy when you really think about it. Arum doesn't want to be dictated to about anything from Al Haymon and Floyd. He'll be damned if he loses his primary asset by having him get soundly beaten at this stage by Mayweather. Not when there's money to be made against guys with little to no chance like a faded Marquez, a limited Bradley and other guys like Brandon Rios. All fighters in-house or non Golden Boy = more money for Filthy Arum.

Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 10:30 PM) *
Thanks for letting me know that I don't follow politics or entertainment. I was under the mistaken impression that I actually DO follow that shit a lot.

Just because a lot of people don't go the courts route, doesn't mean anything. Floyd did something that called into question Manny's entire career. Taking a test does not change that. All that does is say that you weren't on anything during that testing.

Also, the olympic style drug testing is not perfect. How many athletes have gotten busted AFTER the fact, while testing clean for years? How many olympians have come clean years after they retired saying they doped during their careers, and yet were never caught by the drug tests?

So I'll tell you exactly what would have happened if Manny took the tests at the first suggestion. When/if he passed it, and beat Floyd, you would have heard all the calls of "well, look at Marion Jones" who came clean years later but beat all the tests. There would be people talking about how he had something that was undetectable, or he cycled off in time and was still able to have the benefits.

I base that on just listening to all the people who speak in a sense of absolute that Manny is guilty and come up with all these things like "the Phillipines have the best shit" and bullets bounce off the soldiers, and what not that Floyd Sr. has run with.

And if he lost, then it'd be like "Well, he finally couldn't take anything and look at what happened."

He was in a no win situation there. I'm glad he filed a lawsuit. There has to be limitations when you go that direction of intentionally damaging someone's reputation.

There's a line between sharing your opinion and spreading false and malicious lies for which you have ZERO proof only conjecture and hypothesis.


I never said that Pac was guilty. But the way he is acting isn't helping his cause either. President Obama when he was accused of not being an American citizen he did not take the Birthers movement to court. And because of their inference that he was not a citizen actually caused a lot of issues, he even lost popularity points as a result. You know what the Pres did? He shut those claims way down when he showed his long form and short form of his birth certificate. That is what you do when someone accuses you of something. You prove them wrong. Not come up with silly excuses. This is boxing people say slanderous things on a regular. It makes him look bad.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Oct 19 2011, 11:32 AM) *
I never said that Pac was guilty. But the way he is acting isn't helping his cause either. President Obama when he was accused of not being an American citizen he did not take the Birthers movement to court. And because of their inference that he was not a citizen actually caused a lot of issues, he even lost popularity points as a result. You know what the Pres did? He shut those claims way down when he showed his long form and short form of his birth certificate. That is what you do when someone accuses you of something. You prove them wrong. Not come up with silly excuses. This is boxing people say slanderous things on a regular. It makes him look bad.

Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 19 2011, 11:00 AM) *


And you know this...Shells!
MaxPayne
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Oct 19 2011, 11:32 AM) *
I never said that Pac was guilty. But the way he is acting isn't helping his cause either. President Obama when he was accused of not being an American citizen he did not take the Birthers movement to court. And because of their inference that he was not a citizen actually caused a lot of issues, he even lost popularity points as a result. You know what the Pres did? He shut those claims way down when he showed his long form and short form of his birth certificate. That is what you do when someone accuses you of something. You prove them wrong. Not come up with silly excuses. This is boxing people say slanderous things on a regular. It makes him look bad.


Excellent point actually.

To most people, they can't think of a situation where someone jumped multiple weight classes and were doing the things that Pacquiao has been doing, namely KO'ing guys, breaking orbital bones and forcing stoppages.

Remember when Roy Jones Jr. jumped to heavyweight and fought John Ruiz ? He landed a lot, but barely hurt the guy. I mean, Ruiz was walking through ALL of Roy's shots. Go watch the fight again and you'll see.

James Toney went up in weight several divisions and although he was never a prolific KO guy at the higher weights, he's a known abuser of anabolic steroids.

Evander Holyfield went up from Cruiserweight to Heavyweight and carried his power over, although once again, he's a known abuser of steroids as well.

Look at how Floyd's KO percentage plummeted once he became a true welterweight. He's been able to carry a lot of his speed over (not nearly as blindingly fast as he was when he was at 130 / 135, but still fast enough to give people issues). He simply doesn't have the power to drop guys consistently or even hurt them. Let's just be real about it.

Pacquiao on the other hand has been demolishing people, especially guys who are much bigger than him naturally. There's a reason why one could wonder as to how this is possible when there isn't any strong historical precedent for it.

Of course, it's always possible that he's just a freak of nature, the same way Deion Sanders was able to play a Pro Football game and a Pro Baseball game in the same week, for all I know.

However, he could very easily squash all the rumor and hearsay by saying, let's do it, full testing, I have nothing to hide.

Instead we have a deafening silence.
Cshel86
At this point, Im glad Victor Conte brought up the fact that effective OSDT is conducted 24/7 and 365 days a year...so he basically shut down Floyd's argument about it being effective for 8 weeks or so. With that being said, if Arum and Team Pacquiao have an understanding that the testing wont be effective anyhow, why not fulfill Floyd's one demand, since Floyd's supposedly submitting to Manny's.

Who knows what Floyd was doing during his vacation...hell, he could've been cycling some shit too, who knows? Im almost sure that manny people will get past the testing crap when they realize that it isn't truly effective during an 8-week trial. Hell, when Floyd fought Mosley, they stopped testing 18 days before the fight...so it's not Floyds call on when the doping agency will start and stop testing. Like I said earlier, this lawsuit is hogwash and Im pretty sure it wasn't Manny idea to begin with.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 10:22 PM) *
Today the judge denied Pacquiao's lawyer's request to grant summary judgement, however the judge DID order Floyd's to pay for Manny's legal fees as it relates to those depositions that he missed.

Interesting to see this happen, as I was wondering if there would be any repercussions for him defying the court order. At the time a lot of people suggested that this was no big deal, and that if it was a big deal that the judge would have issued a bench warrant or fined him immediately or whatever.

Surprised it took so long for the judge to respond though.

Any thoughts on this from the rest of the board?

I'm not sure if anybody else said this (I didn't read all of the comments, so if I'm unknowingly biting, I'm sorry), but now Pacquaio can use some of Floyd's money to pay the people at VisionQuest...
PlayaPartner
If PacMan and team were serious about fighting Floyd this law suit would have been dropped. How can you have a serious negotiation with someone and the cloud of the law suit is hovering. Answer this question. Should Benard Hopkins sue Tarver and Winky for saying they think he was faking injury and asking to see the MRI? Should Joe Fraiser sue Ali for calling him a Gorilla? Should all the trash talkers in boxing be sued by their opponnents?
checkleft
I think its both of the fighters faults, one, Floyd new that all the trash talking was going to get him into some trouble one day, and two, anybody else except maybe idk Barry bonds would have taken the test to prove they were clean. But this just kinda makes me wonder how bad manny needs some money..
ks1
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 18 2011, 10:22 PM) *
Today the judge denied Pacquiao's lawyer's request to grant summary judgement, however the judge DID order Floyd's to pay for Manny's legal fees as it relates to those depositions that he missed.

Interesting to see this happen, as I was wondering if there would be any repercussions for him defying the court order. At the time a lot of people suggested that this was no big deal, and that if it was a big deal that the judge would have issued a bench warrant or fined him immediately or whatever.

Surprised it took so long for the judge to respond though.

Any thoughts on this from the rest of the board?


You are confusing a couple of concepts. The depositions were not "court ordered". They were simply dates offered by the court or, if the sides agreed to particular dates, scheduled court appearances for Pac's lawyers to depose the defendant(s). It's standard civil court stuff and pretty much very early in the process. If this silly lawsuit goes on, at some point, Floyd's lawyers will also depose Pac in a similar manner.

Pac's lawyers were grandstanding with the request to grant summary judgement. The fact that the judge denied it and ordered Floyd to pay Manny's lawyers fees only for the actual depostions missed should tell you how little chance it had of suceeding.
HazConvictedFelonMane
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 08:14 AM) *
What did he allegedly admit to in 60 minutes? I think if he had admitted in 60 minutes of all places to cheating, then that would be front and center to every story ever written on Manny.


He admitted to using heavy objects in order to make weight. Look it up on the tube. I just watched that video not too long ago. It's not someone else saying that Manny did it. It's he himself admitting to it. The sad part is that it was during the height of the PED's talk. He refused to take a drug test, then admits to cheating in the past. He's already under intense suspicion and he goes and says something like that. I'd say that gives people a reason to stand firm behind the drug testing. I don't have to fight him, but I want him to take the tests. Just for fuck's sake. I feel like he wants to stay away because a difference in his perfomance, will cause his legacy to be tarnished. They say a champion is defined by the adversity he overcomes. In that case, it has been FMJ who overcame the adversity. We haven't seen that from Pacquiao because of the guys he's put in the ring with. Their tailor made to get the crap beat out of them. He has to look good while he's in front of someone that's there to fight. They put him in there with guys that get hit, and wanna run. There are fighters out there that have heart and will fight back when they get hit. Manny just hasn't been in the ring with any in a while. He's about to on Nov. 12th, so we'll see how this plays out.
Allmenjoi8
The reason why Manny will get a pass on his career and testing is because of his personality and the way he fights. He has a nice guy image and people love that. Anything that is opposite of Floyd people love. They look at him as a knock out artist whether the opponents are even good does not matter. What matters is someone got knocked out. Manny is Rocky.
mgrover
all boxing aside, this is fair, i've done a bit of law and i think its unfair for a side to have to pay for something that isn't there fault, and the longer a case goes on means the more it costs, and sorry to say floyds the cause of this taking longer and longer not to end.

i think sueing floyd is correct, before they speculated to the public that manny pacman was on PEDs did anyone ever, ever doubt him? No which means if he really isn't at the moment that's a lot of boxing fans that are convinced he has. which is slander.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 19 2011, 02:16 PM) *
all boxing aside, this is fair, i've done a bit of law and i think its unfair for a side to have to pay for something that isn't there fault, and the longer a case goes on means the more it costs, and sorry to say floyds the cause of this taking longer and longer not to end.

i think sueing floyd is correct, before they speculated to the public that manny pacman was on PEDs did anyone ever, ever doubt him? No which means if he really isn't at the moment that's a lot of boxing fans that are convinced he has. which is slander.

How has he lost money or popularity? People still blame Floyd for this fight not happening. Heck May should sue Pac for slander because he has lost credit ever since Team Pac said Floyd walked away from the negotiation table. People have called him scared and a punk and dodging Pac. May has gotten mulled by the public because Pac insisted that May does not want to fight him.
zucrates
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 18 2011, 11:55 PM) *

LOL You or whoever else that read it Knew What I Ment taunt.gif
mgrover
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Oct 19 2011, 08:52 PM) *
How has he lost money or popularity? People still blame Floyd for this fight not happening. Heck May should sue Pac for slander because he has lost credit ever since Team Pac said Floyd walked away from the negotiation table. People have called him scared and a punk and dodging Pac. May has gotten mulled by the public because Pac insisted that May does not want to fight him.


I will use Haz over here as an example since its such a blatant example, before Mayweather said Pac was on PEDs or insinuated or whatever he would of never thought of it, (watch him come out that he was the first to say Pacman was on PEDs before the Mayweather's and then want to bare knuckle fight me to prove it) but he never thought Manny Pacman was on PEDs till Floyd Sr and Floyd Jr insinuated.

See he's accusing Manny Pacman of CHEATING, breaking the rules, while all team Pacman said is that Mayweather walked away from the negotiations table isn't him doing anything wrong by the law and boxing law. I mean Mayweather is saying the same thing about the drugs testing, and what credit? the public hated Mayweather before during and after the whole negotiations bullshit. Most of the fans that use that excuse we all know already hated Mayweather. I guess you can make the argument that it damaged his Hall of Fame career if he doesn't fight Pacman because he will of been the one to walk away but the same can be said about Manny.

But heres the beauty while Manny is saying Floyd is scared of him, Floyd is trying to say that his achievements have not been through his own whats the word ability, but enhanced ability. Thats a pretty large and thats why he deserves to be sued.
gravytrain
i think Mayweather just wants to keep getting himself in trouble until he's to go to jail. he would be on cloud 9 being surrounded by gay men.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 19 2011, 08:03 AM) *
Im still curious as to know how people would act if Manny and his team wanted Floyd to "take the test" because they believed that he was on something...being the fact that he is still winning fights. What if Floyd never spoke up about the testing after Pac's team requested it, and Team Mayweather were oh so anxious to speak up for him and say that they aren't gonna do it...or they need a cut-off date? dntknw.gif


I don't know about others, but I would say the same thing for Floyd. To tell Manny to go fuck himself.
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Oct 19 2011, 08:11 AM) *
Yes, I can see exactly how references to a video game power-up can be equated to steroids. It can be argued in very preliminary hearings that that could have been a reference to anything. Once again, if it ever sees the light of day, the case will get thrown out of court.


laugh.gif
PalookaJoe
QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 19 2011, 05:18 PM) *
I will use Haz over here as an example since its such a blatant example, before Mayweather said Pac was on PEDs or insinuated or whatever he would of never thought of it, (watch him come out that he was the first to say Pacman was on PEDs before the Mayweather's and then want to bare knuckle fight me to prove it) but he never thought Manny Pacman was on PEDs till Floyd Sr and Floyd Jr insinuated.

See he's accusing Manny Pacman of CHEATING, breaking the rules, while all team Pacman said is that Mayweather walked away from the negotiations table isn't him doing anything wrong by the law and boxing law. I mean Mayweather is saying the same thing about the drugs testing, and what credit? the public hated Mayweather before during and after the whole negotiations bullshit. Most of the fans that use that excuse we all know already hated Mayweather. I guess you can make the argument that it damaged his Hall of Fame career if he doesn't fight Pacman because he will of been the one to walk away but the same can be said about Manny.

But heres the beauty while Manny is saying Floyd is scared of him, Floyd is trying to say that his achievements have not been through his own whats the word ability, but enhanced ability. Thats a pretty large and thats why he deserves to be sued.


exactly.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 19 2011, 05:18 PM) *
I will use Haz over here as an example since its such a blatant example, before Mayweather said Pac was on PEDs or insinuated or whatever he would of never thought of it, (watch him come out that he was the first to say Pacman was on PEDs before the Mayweather's and then want to bare knuckle fight me to prove it) but he never thought Manny Pacman was on PEDs till Floyd Sr and Floyd Jr insinuated.

See he's accusing Manny Pacman of CHEATING, breaking the rules, while all team Pacman said is that Mayweather walked away from the negotiations table isn't him doing anything wrong by the law and boxing law. I mean Mayweather is saying the same thing about the drugs testing, and what credit? the public hated Mayweather before during and after the whole negotiations bullshit. Most of the fans that use that excuse we all know already hated Mayweather. I guess you can make the argument that it damaged his Hall of Fame career if he doesn't fight Pacman because he will of been the one to walk away but the same can be said about Manny.

But heres the beauty while Manny is saying Floyd is scared of him, Floyd is trying to say that his achievements have not been through his own whats the word ability, but enhanced ability. Thats a pretty large and thats why he deserves to be sued.


Again how has he lost popularity and money? Haz does not make or break Manny. Matter of fact other boxers have said that he looks unnatural so do they get sued? No. Until he can prove that his popularity and his net worth has been lost then he has nothing to stand on. That is like a grade school kid taking his classmate to court because his classmate said that he pisses in the bed. It is stupid. It is a frivolous lawsuit and he is wasting money that VisionQuest said that he does not have. It is a waste of time. He should take the test get in the ring and beat the crap out of May for lying on him but instead he wants to take May to court. Dumb
mgrover
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Oct 20 2011, 03:22 AM) *
Again how has he lost popularity and money? Haz does not make or break Manny. Matter of fact other boxers have said that he looks unnatural so do they get sued? No. Until he can prove that his popularity and his net worth has been lost then he has nothing to stand on. That is like a grade school kid taking his classmate to court because his classmate said that he pisses in the bed. It is stupid. It is a frivolous lawsuit and he is wasting money that VisionQuest said that he does not have. It is a waste of time. He should take the test get in the ring and beat the crap out of May for lying on him but instead he wants to take May to court. Dumb


you just added to my own point before mayweather brought up the peds thing did any other fighter doubt pacman? no. haz is an example a template of those fans. heres the gravity of the situation its like me accusing you of murder and in term you accuse me of wetting the bed. one is breaking a set law and another isnt.
Slumpage
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 08:08 AM) *
That's the dumbest shit ever. Seriously? Do you even understand what Innocent Til Proven Guilty means? It means you are innocent until THEY prove you guilty. not until YOU prove you're innocent.

Otherwise it would be "Guilty until proven innocent" which is what so many people are viewing this as. Manny's guilty until he proves he is clean.


Yeah, but if you REFUSE to allow them to provide proof one way or the other (via a test) then you have to accept that some folk will see that as suspicious.

You say, "It means you are innocent until THEY prove you guilty.". How exactly would team Mayweather prove that Manny's guilty if he refuses to undergo random testing as part of a condition to fight Floyd? The burden of proof DOES fall on the accuser, but if the accused is seen to be obstructing that proof being obtained, then that raises suspicion and just adds credence to the accusation. Which brings me to my next point. I might have to check the timeline here, but i'm pretty sure the contract negotiations were made public by Arum and other members of Team Pacquiao. I can definietly say that the majority of leaks to the media seemed to be coming from that side of the table, they were telling folk all about that weight penalty etc. Now in my previous post i said that i and many others didn't buy into the accusations until Pac refused to undergo random testing, that just raises an eyebrow. The court case is all about how Floyd's accusation has slandered Manny and caused a negative image etc. If I was Floyd's lawyer i'd just argue that testing was part of a fight contract that ARUM publicised and any damage caused was by the test refusal, not the initial accusation.

Come on man, Floyd aint even bothered to show up to the court and the judge STILL aint ruling in Pac's favour, that should tell you the case is hella weak...

Finally, what kind of boxer sues another over trash talk anyways?? If your upset, get in the ring and kick ass! SMH at this lame shit, amazed anyone is even co-signing it to be honest...
Slumpage
QUOTE (PalookaJoe @ Oct 19 2011, 08:06 AM) *
Roger Mayweather said the following:



http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-las-vega...-is-on-steroids




I'm sure that Manny and his team told Roger that he was taking steroids. lol



You do realise that can also be read that Roger's saying Team Pac told him Khan was on steroids and he's just assuming they mean Manny's on them too.

Also, if some rogue member of Team Pac HAS been telling Roger that, then wouldn't that convince him even more that he's correct in his assumption/accusation? Maybe if Manny didn't have an Obama sized entourage there wouldn't be so many shit talkers in his camp.

Just to clarify, i'm not convince that Manny is on any roids/juice/PED whatever. However the refusal did make me suspect him, I mean how many reasons did they give out? asking for 30 days, then changing to 24 after its pointed out he gave blood 24days before the Hatton fight. Then being offerd 14days, and refusing to go fight Clottey?! Then coming out and stating a 14 day cut off would be fine? C'mon man, at least Floyd's remained consistent, to the point that his last 2 fights have been under the same testing conditions he outlined for the Manny fight.
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