Pacquaio's fans aren't phased by this latest expose of their idol. The guy sucks, always has and always will.

sure it was a shutout the first time around, i doubt it will be the second time around, he's carried the weight a lot better, hell he was even over the limit

The fight was very entertaining more so than i originally expected. Marquez gets a ton of props being 38 years old and not giving up not quitting and fought his heart out. Marquez wanted to win this fight real bad he didn't get knocked down or anything. Marquez truly won that fight I feel bad for him, all the hard work and preparation for a fight you get in the ring and win but the judges say otherwise. I think manny should definitely evaluate what he wants to do from here. The whole marquez has my number kind of thing is bull shit. they fought last in 2008 since that time manny has dominated opponents and now he struggles, i think kellermen said it best during the fight..."It's been a long time since manny fought someone with skills like him". He struggled in the fight, and i think it's time for him to make that mega fight.....fighting bradley would be retarded because bradley is garbage, no one wants to see him fight marquez again...for what? another robbery...lets make the mega fight happen and be done with this 3 years worth of hype.

Fk him. Take the test and feed him to the shark known as floyd so I can watch his big head get pummeled. I'm sick of this circus, but at the same time Arum is doing a fabulous job of taking advantage of the minds of weak boxing knowledge fans...he's cashing in off this shit.

I heard already on the radio he's going to do JMM IV....which makes more sense than feeding water head to floyd from a $$$$ perspective.

All I know is i'm glad I know boxing to understand there are tons of matchups out there way more interesting than the mass majority sold pac vs floyd bullshit. I'm over it. was over it years ago actually.

More split decisions from my two good friends one had 115-113 Marquez, one had 115-113 Pacquiao. But everyone seems to agree that Juan did light-years better than expected. I heard Marquez's corner was telling him he was ahead after 8 rounds, and you don't do that in a close fight with a big marketable guy like Pacquiao. If the corner said that, they shouldn't have. My friend that gave it to Manny, said Juan made it too close in the final stages of the fight. He gave a couple of swing rounds to Manny because he figured the judges would do that.

Jack

Question: Are you saying that the fight will be competitive or JMM has a realistic shot at winning?


What, in the past peformance b/t Floyd and JMM, makes you think it wouldn't be another shutout?

The thing is, the fight wasnt that close to award a SD to anybody. Marquez won clearly, sure it was close, but he won clear. 7-5 minimum. Manny at times seemed lost, and his body language told us that. The guy even spitted out his mouthpiece out of frustration.

If they thought JMM was ahead, they needn't to look any further than the Top Rank banner hanging overhead, for obvious reminder that they weren't.

They usually don't start point deductions until the second, third, or fourth offense. Taking a point off for the first time without a warning would have been premature IMO.

^^ thanks I just wanted to clear tht up. It just looked very intentional to me, I don't think it was case he was tired though. The frustration probably got to him.

Someone said earlier about marquez not being aggressive enough? This is boxing, this wasn't a spinx/Taylor performance. He didn't run, he clearly and cleanly outboxed him. Just because manny throws a million punches means shit in my book. Marquez was effectively countering and landing better shots (scoring points) and was judging his distance incredibly well (ring generalship). And he didn't get too caught up in exchanges and got the best of manny in most of them (controlling the pace).

I should have watched it with Spanish commentators, because hbo was making me sick..

This is when I almost destroyed my television I noticed it too, but Im sure Manny did it to buy himself some time. I dont know why, its not like JMM was gonna come out swinging in the 12th and risk getting floored. I dont know if its just me, but its almost like I could hear JMM thinking throughout the whole fight.



Lmao! Cant say it wasn't a bad assumption! They ALL need love bro, you could've "taken one for the team" last night. As bad as the judging was last night, you would've been considered "the man" if you gave one of those "beautifully challenged" women a "good time"!



Lmao!



...and again Buffalo, I ignore your post. All emotions/opinions, no facts. You always find a way to throw race in there, for some odd reason.

Yea i agree you can't take a point off a first offense unless it was something extremely drastic like you tombstone the dude or put him in a muah thai clinch with knee strikes or something lol

I couldn't quote everybody's posts (which were good ones), so I'll sum it up. At this point, Arum is in the hot seat when ANY negotiations about FMJ/Pac come up. JMM didn't throw a bunch of nasty combinations against Pac, because of course, he had to be super careful. Not only did he have to fight Pac, he also had to fight the judges, his past mistakes in the first two fights, and the crowd's utterly sickening, delusional, and undying love for Pacquiao. It sucks how the whole world notices that JMM's a counter puncher, and repeated it for the past few months, but chose to ignore it during the fight.

When I saw those wild ass percentages before the fight, when folks judged who really won the first two fights...I already knew Marquez had his hands full. If JMM is offered the right amount of money, a forth fight will happen. He's Mexican to the core and he fights for the pride of his country, but that pride for his country wont make him walk away from another big payday, and RELEVANCE in the sport.

At this point, Im just WAITING to see what FMJ has to say about this...Im sure he's gonna eat this up! I believe the ball is truly in Arum's court and maybe Floyd made that May 5th announcement at the right time. He said he will fight the "little guy" on May 5th, so now the little guy's big boss is on blast. Of course Arum had a plan B and C...so he pulled JMM/Pac IV out of his ass quickly, and he's talking about doing it in May Pathetic! From the looks of it, Arum's keeping Pac away from Floyd. I will say this again, its funny how Pac actually spoke up about a Floyd fight afterwards, when he usually leaves it to Bob...maybe he did it to save face.

To be honest, I thought Manny was about to go off on Kellerman last night when he heard all of that booing, and knew in his heart that he was exposed. Im thinking that Floyd was relying on Manny to get exposed sooner or later, so at least some of the world would see things the he's seen them in regards to Pac and his ring skills. Maybe Floyd gained a bit after last night, since people compared JMM's performance to his Floyd's future performance against Pac.

Looking at your sig, the punch he lands in slow motion, Lampley called a landed punch for Ortiz(last 10 seconds of 3rd round, Floyd followed that with a nice uppercut)....lmao....sounds like his cheerleading last night, Pac landing phantom punches all night

I knew it wasn't just me! The punch stats were padded, I remember seeing a round where marquez was winning by anyone's eyes the compubox pops up and its like 17 punches for pac and like 8 for marquez. seriously Wtf

Man its like they were giving Pacquaio the rounds that Marquez was actaully winning, and giving Marquez the rounds that Pacquaio was losing Im about to watch it again...this time I will watch the celebrities and other fighters in the crowd Gotta love DVR!

Brother just e-mailed me back. Saw it at a bar. Thought Pacquaio won, but very, very close. He thought that the rounds Marquez won were clearer rounds for Juan and big rounds for Juan. But there were more close rounds in the fight overall for either fighter than big rounds for Juan. He thought because there were so many more Mexicans than Filipinos in the crowd (at least that's what it looked like to him.) who were very impressed by how well Marquez did, that the general consensus of the ringside crowd was that Marquez had won.

Jack

Who's surprised by this? After all, this is normal behavior for Jim "BANG! BANG! BANG!" Lampley. LOL.

Great minds think alike. First thing I did was look on Floyd's FB fan page (<---stalk much???), but he had nothing. He won't say anything, 'til mid-week or so, but AFTER Top Rank says some other crazy sh*t.

Those judges were no crazier than Harold "I gotta tell ya Jim!" Lederman!!!!

Im going to wait to see it on the front page in the next week or so. Im sure Floyd is itching to say something...not like its gonna be something that he hasn't already said though...he will just be extra "asshole-ish" about it and have that "I told you so" attitude...which totally fits the aftermath of this fight.



I hate Lederman! The fact that they are actually showing his name on the commentators list during fights, hurts the worse. He seems irritated as hell when he gives his scores during the fight, and he's usually mad at the guy who's winning, but he's giving the rounds to the wrong fighter I swear everybody at the announcer's table was passing around a big thirst buster sized cup full of Hennessy with a splash of coke (if they wanted to take it easy).

This has been a great thread....

I love how everyone see's this as a surprise..

Manny is the same fighter he has always been. With the increase in size and power people viewed him as Superman...
which is a funny analogy because the way he was stretching across the ring trying to land his left hand.....

Truth is, tactically, all you need is the ability to fight, and counter backing up, and a decent striat right....gee, I wonder who is a master at that?

People are saying Arum wont dare put him in with Floyed now....I see the opposite.

Arum is gonna cash in.....

Just as he he does with all his fighters when he notices a decline...(Cotto vs Pac). Ect...

He wont pit him against Bradley... too much risk..not enough reward now...

Good fight overall though

And btw.... mad props to Kellerman for putting Pac on blast....

Truly amazing, I've only seen JMM beaten once in his career. I just wonder how his career would be if he was promoted correctly.

i think he has a realistic shot at winning, and lets face it if he beat MP then he would be the next in line to fight mayweather since who else is there? he's not going up to 154 now is he, maybe fight some of the up and comers like khan at WW, i think he could still make an impact, or maybe this defeat will crush him, if someone tells you enough times you lost, you might start to believe it

on an unrelated note he won't cash in pac due to how bradley performed, which was shockingly bad, so he's obviously not going to be his next cash cow, so he'll hold onto pac for a little while longer.

Oh, you can bet the farm on that. Floyd will be clowning after this.....Heaven forbid, should the numbers be similar the #s he did against JMM. If that's the case, I KNOW the fight won't happen. Floyd's gonna be like, "hell, you fools need to pay ME in order to fight YOU."

Realistic shot at winning WHAT? Against Floyd? Naw.....there's nothing...I repeat NOTHING that JMM does better than Floyd. That fight would be a wash as well.

Had JMM beat Manny, it would've been a 4th and after that, Manny likely would've walked. I feel for Marquez...tough as nails dude, fights his heart out each and every time. I have no idea what's next for him.

May I ask, what fuckin' fight were you watchin'?



Exactly! He was wild as hell and got desperate to land. JMM was even more patient in this fight, than he was in the rematch. I dont believe Arum will cash in with Pac...Pac is Arum's De La Hoya (with no sense though). Its always smart to keep guys like that around.



Gladly!

I just read that Freddie Roach CLAIMS Pacquiao's legs were cramping. Dont they always cramp in fights that he doesn't look his best in?

i dont think hes a better offensive fighter.

Floyd has the upper hand, hands down. I just posted how Freddie Roach said that Pac's legs were cramping but Lampley and Steward were praising his "amazing" footwork Seems like the announcers slowly began to chang their tune after the 7th round, but they just couldn't let Pac fall by the wayside. Did anybody peep how many times JMM stepped on Pacquiao's foot when he wildly jumping in and trying to jump back quick?

I agree with the ruling. I simply don't think that Marquez did enough to win. He did enough to make his mark. He did more than enough to expose Pacquiao. If Floyd Mayweather is next for Pacquiao, then I already know that Manny Pacquiao will get served up. Do you guys really wanna see your hero get punished? I'm over it. We could do it for the fuck of it though. We could do it to satisfy the demand for that fight, if there's even still a demand after last night. Otherwise, I'd like to see Floyd go after Sergio Martinez. He won his last fight by knockout. More like Floyd's type of fighter. Pacquiao's circus has ran out of clowns.

Ok I had a decent sleep and have calmed down a bit. Now someone please explain to me how Manny won more than four rounds??? I didn't watch the American telecast I was watching the British one and they had it a shutout win for Marquez and even Amir Khan who was a guest announcer had Manny losing the fight and he was in major disbelief. Heard everyone except Kellerman at HBO was licking Manny's nutsack. But please from a logical viewpoint tell me how it was even close to a draw. Manny Pacquaio was exposed last night much the way Hopkins exposed Trinidad and I'm now full on certain Bob Arum knows Mayweather toys with Pac which is why he chose May as the date for the rematch with Marquez. I hope Marquez turns it down so we can see the sham for what it really is.

Have you discovered a new form of drug? The fight was not even close.

It's a mismatch. I've lost interest in that fight. Manny Pacquiao has no wins over Floyd, period. If the fight happens, then fuck it, it happens. If not, I don't even give a fuck. Manny's lost a lot of stock. Floyd handled a southpaw more effectively than Pacquiao handled the conventional counter puncher. If we want to see who's better once and for all, then let's make it happen. We all know the headline will say something to the tune of Mayweather's skill being too much for Pacquiao to handle. All of the Mayweather haters need to tread lightly. They will have to eat their words when their hero fighter gets taken to school.

Floyd, by far, is a better offensive fighter than JMM. JMM, by nature, is a counter puncher. Floyd has become MORE of a counter puncher as he rose in weight. First fight: Floyd controlled that fight w/ the jab, forced Juan to counter and bested him at that as well. Respectfully, again, there is NOTHING that JMM does better than Floyd.

+4. (7-5 Marquez, and that's being generous to Pacquiao, that is.)

I had it 8-4 Marquez, with Marquez winning rounds 2, and 4 through 10. I watched the fight without sound. Marquez really controlled the middle rounds.

That being said, it was NOT an exciting fight. It was actually shitty. Neither guy's punching accuracynor overall technique was anything to write home about. Most notably, Pacquiao missed with the vast majority of his straight left money punch, and did not work the body. In relative terms, Marquez worked the body and countered effectively whenever Pacquiao would miss. At the end of the day, I think the repeated looks of consternation on the face of Jenkeen, Pacquiao's wife, for one, told the truer story, as opposed to what the official judges turned in.

And like some have already posited, Arum is quickly setting up to make the fight between Pacman and May for next May 5 essentially a mirage, at least for now, by calling for MP-JMM IV for the same time period. Go figure.

Whatever the case would be going forward, I have one singular piece of advice for you, JMM, should you fail to resist Arum's carrot for you (Marquez) to keep helping to generate unwarranted revenue that is obscenely in favor of Arum and Pac, and to your own detriment: Please insist on a 50:50 purse split to fight Pac henceforth. If they say you've priced yourself out, so be it; but that's one way I think you can keep your honor moving forward, short of walking away from the sport.

P34c3

Huh? Why would I think Pacman really won it if I followed through with my score which I gave it to Marquez? I was just saying, of course Pacquiao would officially win, like he did the 2nd fight, which he really didn't win also.

IMO, Pacquaio looked more sharp in this fight compared to the last two where he was just straight up wild, but he still lacked technique, the same fighter he always was (like I've said before lol). Marquez was even sharper in this fight, but more hesitant to exchange blows.

Here's how I scored the fight.

Pacquiao - 3, 4, (7), (8), (9), 11 - 6

Marquez - 1, 2, 5, 6, (7), (8), (9), 10, 12 - 9

Pacquiao - 9, 9, 10, 10, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 9, 10, 9 - 114

Marquez - 10, 10, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 9, 10 - 117

9-6 rounds 117-114 ~Marquez

Round 7, 8, and 9 were draws for me. Scored it as it happened live, round by round.

How can one score a 12 round fight 117-114, in which there were no knockdowns or dominate 10-8 rounds?

C'mon Haz! Really? Aint no way in hell Manny won that fight. Now, I do agree with you by saying that JMM made his mark and did enough to expose Manny...but nah, Manny lost this one.




+1

I had it 7-5, but of course I was being generous. 8-4 seems likely, but not much was going on in the fight, so 7-5 appears to be the safe score.

Aaah, I see. Don't agree, but I see. Also, why does everyone BUT the official judges score 10-10 rounds?

Here's to Marquez hoping he doesn't piss "pos" post-fight.

My friend said that the judges did not agree on any rounds after round 6. Shows perhaps how hard this was to score.

Jack

I have to respectfully disagree with you my friend. In my humble opinion, Marquez just did not do enough to win the fight. I can understand why the judges would rule the way they did. If Marquez would've had more rounds go the way round 5 went, then I'd say he got royally screwed. I can see how the judges could be swayed into judging in favor for the straight left hands by Pacquiao, over the body shots of Marquez. I can understand how they came up with their scores. I'm not saying they're spot on accurate. I'm simply saying that I could be inclined to understand their point of view. 3 judges watch the same fight with different views. They favor different things. Marquez knew he had to win rounds clearly. Round 5 would've been the measure for a round won clearly. I must say, I'm not the biggest Pacquiao supporter in the world. I will, however, state what I see regardless to who's involved, or my personla feelings. I figured that the close rounds would go to Pacquiao by default. Marquez knew this as well. He didn't embrace his moment to set himself apart form Pacquiao. They were cautious and I totally understand. They know each other well enough to have respect for one another. It takes more than what Marquez did over the course of 12 rounds to clearly defeat the Ring Magazine's #1 welterweight, and [disputed] P4P king. In my opinion, I just don't think he did enough. He needed to go balls to the wall and win rounds as clearly as he won round 5 in order to claim to be robbed. That's my honest opinion. Personal feelings aside.

I scored the fight on my own as well. I still dont see how those rounds were even, but hey, if you feel your cards were right, then thats on you. Hell, Lederman felt the same way and his were totally bogus.



My point exactly...

Maybe the judges aren't allowed to score 10-10 rounds, or they really just don't see it that way. Or could you only score it 9-9? Whatever.

How would you guys score rounds 7, 8, and 9? They were really hard to score as it happened right then, so I concluded to a draw for each. I would probably re-score it if I ever feel like watching the fight again.

I understand much of what you're saying, but this notion that onus of clear victory solely rests upon Marquez is a bit odd. Just like the line, "in order to beat the champ, you have to decisively BEAT the champ". This is idiotic in my opinion. In a title a fight, the belt is up for grabs...it's not the champ's belt. The champ has to WIN it back or at a minimum, NOT LOSE (a.k.a. draw). In this line of thinking, the "champ" has to only fight as the "champ", while he's the challenging for the belt. Once he has it, he can just "not lose".

Me, personally, I judge the fight two ways: independently (each round) and then, again, using the "eye test"..meaning, which fighter made the other do things they don't normally do? For me, Marquez made Manny fight reluctantly. Second, Manny started jumping around as if he had a soccer ball b/t his legs, trying to shoot a goal. Pac didn't make Marquez fight out of character. Lastly, in which rounds would you have wanted to be Manny rather than Marquez or vice versa?

You can actually score rounds 10-10 and 9-9 (both fighters knocked down).

7-8-9...I'd have to see them again.

I'll watch the fight again and give you my scores. Give me a lil bit of time to review again. There are rounds where I can see how the judges would think that Manny did just enough to give him the round. It's almost like splitting hairs man. I'll get back to you.

Yup, agreed, definitely enough quality matches can be made that don't involve the media and top rank created congressional, musical powerhouse and "pound for pound king' (ha!). Looking forward to the Berto/Ortiz and Alexander/Malignaggi (or whoever) and also looking forward to Ward vs. Froch. Also looking forward to Khan vs. Peterson.

Cool, Haz.