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duwdu
I think I noticed there've been at least a thread on someone like Larry Merchant before, but I've not seen such a thread among recent entries. Besides, the point/evidence here is new...





In this subject video released about 12 hours ago, Elie Seckback is campaigning that both Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant should not be commentating on fights involving Freddie Roach. Elie's reasons are basically that both Jim and Larry, in their own separate ways, are involved in activities that are clearly in conflict with their abilities to be fair on their jobs at HBO.

Now, whereas I was previously aware of the case with Jim (he alluded to it during a recent commentating job on HBO,) the case against Larry is news to me, as it appears to be also with Elie.

In my view, Elie himself had previously not shown much spine or lack of bias in his video interviews either. A case in point is that he could hardly ask Bob Arum any tough questions whenever he had a chance to interview with Bob, and there have been some.

Now, what does this portend? To me, it could be any or both of the following:

1. Some of those, especially in the media who've been traditionally supportive of - or at least been giving benefits of the doubt to - the Lampley-Merchant-Roach ecosystem, have been having second thoughts lately, and the number is growing. This may just affect the way boxing writers vote going forward, I think.

2. One can always give these commentators benefits of the doubt and put their wrongs in the realm of over-zealousness or advancing age; however things may actually be quite muddy in terms of their professional backgrounds and affiliations, and all they represent, especially in their commentaries, are mostly half-truths.

But, hey, what do I know?

And what do you folks think?

P34c3
bnoles4life
I think that I'm shocked to know there is a bias in boxing (sarcasm). not_i.gif
duwdu
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Nov 28 2011, 09:15 AM) *
I think that I'm shocked to know there is a bias in boxing (sarcasm). not_i.gif

Bwahahaha... I take your point. Still, this type of brazenness would need to be called out, so more of the casual fans will be helped to properly discern what is propagated by these "commentators," however fluent such commentators may be.

P34c3
Cshel86
Im surprised that Stickback actually untucked his tail from between his legs and stepped up with something worthy of listening to laugh.gif sometimes I forget that these commentators are avergae Joes with jobs and lives outside of the boxing world.

Just as much as fighters are trying to latch onto big name fighters and make fights happen (for the sake of money and popularity for future bouts), Im sure that the announcers are doing the same thing with these trainers/managers/etc to secure their future monetary ventures dntknw.gif
BigFightFan
I prefer Merchant, Lampley, and Stewart over those bland announcers over at Showtime. I can't imagine a fight on HBO without 1 of the three. Roy jones will be a nice fill in though.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (duwdu @ Nov 28 2011, 08:39 AM) *
I think I noticed there've been at least a thread on someone like Larry Merchant before, but I've not seen such a thread among recent entries. Besides, the point/evidence here is new...





In this subject video released about 12 hours ago, Elie Seckback is campaigning that both Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant should not be commentating on fights involving Freddie Roach. Elie's reasons are basically that both Jim and Larry, in their own separate ways, are involved in activities that are clearly in conflict with their abilities to be fair on their jobs at HBO.

Now, whereas I was previously aware of the case with Jim (he alluded to it during a recent commentating job on HBO,) the case against Larry is news to me, as it appears to be also with Elie.

In my view, Elie himself had previously not shown much spine or lack of bias in his video interviews either. A case in point is that he could hardly ask Bob Arum any tough questions whenever he had a chance to interview with Bob, and there have been some.

Now, what does this portend? To me, it could be any or both of the following:

1. Some of those, especially in the media who've been traditionally supportive of - or at least been giving benefits of the doubt to - the Lampley-Merchant-Roach ecosystem, have been having second thoughts lately, and the number is growing. This may just affect the way boxing writers vote going forward, I think.

2. One can always give these commentators benefits of the doubt and put their wrongs in the realm of over-zealousness or advancing age; however things may actually be quite muddy in terms of their professional backgrounds and affiliations, and all they represent, especially in their commentaries, are mostly half-truths.

But, hey, what do I know?

And what do you folks think?

P34c3

Very interesting post and yeah I agree, there really should be a recognition by HBO that there's a conflict of interest, but I doubt anything will be done. Nonetheless nice piece and you also get propers for using the tech buzzword "eco-system" in an article about boxing, I hate buzzwords, but this time I didn't throw my laptop in disgust as I usually do when I read a buzzword.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Nov 28 2011, 11:19 AM) *
I hate buzzwords, but this time I didn't throw my laptop in disgust as I usually do when I read a buzzword.


laugh.gif Dammit Cheesey! I tried my best to ignore that ecosystem shit when I read past it! For some reason, I just had this weird feeling when I read it...kinda threw me off laugh.gif Yall are crazy man...
Allmenjoi8
Favorite part of the video was the intro and outro music!!!! Good job.
Merchant hated Floyd long before his daughter married Mr. Dick. They do not like Floyd plain and simple. The people who should be doing the commentating are the followig: Roy "I talk way too fast" Jones, Gorge Foreman, Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Lennox Lewis, Sugar Ray Lenord, and James Toney.
duwdu
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2011, 10:56 AM) *
Im surprised that Stickback actually untucked his tail from between his legs and stepped up with something worthy of listening to laugh.gif sometimes I forget that these commentators are avergae Joes with jobs and lives outside of the boxing world.

Just as much as fighters are trying to latch onto big name fighters and make fights happen (for the sake of money and popularity for future bouts), Im sure that the announcers are doing the same thing with these trainers/managers/etc to secure their future monetary ventures dntknw.gif

Quite an interesting perspective you've got there CShel; good luck to them tho'.

P34c3
duwdu
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Nov 28 2011, 11:19 AM) *
Very interesting post and yeah I agree, there really should be a recognition by HBO that there's a conflict of interest, but I doubt anything will be done. Nonetheless nice piece and you also get propers for using the tech buzzword "eco-system" in an article about boxing, I hate buzzwords, but this time I didn't throw my laptop in disgust as I usually do when I read a buzzword.

Thanks Cheesey.

Hey, be careful now... you might just be needing that laptop to watch the "Fight of the Century" should you find yourself unavoidably on the road when the opening bell happens! Ha.

P34c3
duwdu
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2011, 11:41 AM) *
laugh.gif Dammit Cheesey! I tried my best to ignore that ecosystem shit when I read past it! For some reason, I just had this weird feeling when I read it...kinda threw me off laugh.gif Yall are crazy man...

Oh Cshel, just take that ecosystem (again!) buzz word as part of the technological development of the sweet science. biggrin.gif Now, I know how to stir your honey's nest, don't I! LOL.
duwdu
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Nov 28 2011, 12:53 PM) *
Favorite part of the video was the intro and outro music!!!! Good job.
Merchant hated Floyd long before his daughter married Mr. Dick. They do not like Floyd plain and simple. The people who should be doing the commentating are the followig: Roy "I talk way too fast" Jones, Gorge Foreman, Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Lennox Lewis, Sugar Ray Lenord, and James Toney.

I don't mind the inclusion of Teddy in your list. He, together with Big George and Max, would be one fearless, dynamic bunch.

P34c3
BoxingEinstein

Hey, don't forget to add Al Bernstien he's a great guy and very unbias plus he really knows his shit. My dream commentators for the HBO crew would be....Mike Tyson, Al Bernstien, Hopkins, Teddy Atlas and post fight in the ring interviews would be handled by Max Kellerman. What ya think?? oh yeah...Arum needs to roll over and croak.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2011, 11:41 AM) *
laugh.gif Dammit Cheesey! I tried my best to ignore that ecosystem shit when I read past it! For some reason, I just had this weird feeling when I read it...kinda threw me off laugh.gif Yall are crazy man...

I think that things are going to get worse before they get better when it comes to the use of the word "eco-system"...... A very disturbing thing to think about, but that's usually how it goes with buzzwords.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (duwdu @ Nov 28 2011, 03:40 PM) *
Thanks Cheesey.

Hey, be careful now... you might just be needing that laptop to watch the "Fight of the Century" should you find yourself unavoidably on the road when the opening bell happens! Ha.

P34c3

In all seriousness, I don't think that we'll ever get Mayweather vs. Pacquaio as long as Top Rank holds Manny's contract. I hope that I'm proven wrong, but that ship's sailed.
duwdu
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Nov 28 2011, 04:25 PM) *
Hey, don't forget to add Al Bernstien he's a great guy and very unbias plus he really knows his shit. My dream commentators for the HBO crew would be....Mike Tyson, Al Bernstien, Hopkins, Teddy Atlas and post fight in the ring interviews would be handled by Max Kellerman. What ya think?? oh yeah...Arum needs to roll over and croak.

My problem with Al is that he doesn't want to offend or appear to strongly disagree with anybody, least of all his fellow commentators. As a result, he comes out as meek, although he does know his zhit about boxing.

Jim Gray is another excellent, almost soft spoken, but hard, no-holds-bared post-fight interviewer. I like the way he put Abner Mares on the spot after those terrible low blows he (Abner) "delivered" on Joseph "King Kong" Agbeko. Although he let Abner off following Abner;s pleading. Another classic from Jim Gray was how he grilled that Canadian referee who saved Bute from certain knock out in round 12 with a 25-second count of ten on Bute, during Bute-Andrade I.

P34c3
duwdu
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Nov 28 2011, 04:33 PM) *
In all seriousness, I don't think that we'll ever get Mayweather vs. Pacquaio as long as Top Rank holds Manny's contract. I hope that I'm proven wrong, but that ship's sailed.

You may be right ultimately, but that would be a long time to have to wait for a full proof, so the fight better happens sooner, rather than later.

The problem I see, right now, tho', is that virtually all those who would have traditionally and fiercely argued Team-Pacquiao's case(s) and in the process provide the intensities to these threads, have all but disappeared - for the moment.

Or so I sense.

P34c3
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (duwdu @ Nov 28 2011, 05:02 PM) *
My problem with Al is that he doesn't want to offend or appear to strongly disagree with anybody, least of all his fellow commentators. As a result, he comes out as meek, although he does know his zhit about boxing.

Jim Gray is another excellent, almost soft spoken, but hard, no-holds-bared post-fight interviewer. I like the way he put Abner Mares on the spot after those terrible low blows he (Abner) "delivered" on Joseph "King Kong" Agbeko. Although he let Abner off following Abner;s pleading. Another classic from Jim Gray was how he grilled that Canadian referee who saved Bute from certain knock out in round 12 with a 25-second count of ten on Bute, during Bute-Andrade I.

P34c3


oH COME ON!! Al went to town on that Abner-Agbeko tragedy. He WILL/CAN strongly disagree when something is blatantly wrong or he fills is unjust. Jim Gray is an asshole but he does have a lot of classic interviews.
Cshel86
QUOTE (duwdu @ Nov 28 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Oh Cshel, just take that ecosystem (again!) buzz word as part of the technological development of the sweet science. biggrin.gif Now, I know how to stir your honey's nest, don't I! LOL.


Hahahaha!!! Some stuff is labeled as "progressive" nowadays...like buzz words or men hyphenating their last names after they get married laugh.gif Its hard to understand, but hey, if it flies, then it flies!
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Nov 28 2011, 04:25 PM) *
Hey, don't forget to add Al Bernstien he's a great guy and very unbias plus he really knows his shit. My dream commentators for the HBO crew would be....Mike Tyson, Al Bernstien, Hopkins, Teddy Atlas and post fight in the ring interviews would be handled by Max Kellerman. What ya think?? oh yeah...Arum needs to roll over and croak.


Mike Tyson and James Tony!!!!! Now that would be a treat.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 29 2011, 10:14 AM) *
Hahahaha!!! Some stuff is labeled as "progressive" nowadays...like buzz words or men hyphenating their last names after they get married laugh.gif Its hard to understand, but hey, if it flies, then it flies!


What is wrong with a man hyphenating his last name? And why do married people have to even take the others name? Makes no sense. offtopic.gif
All those guys from HBO need to be fired. Out with the old in with the new. Skip Bayless, Michael Wilbon, and Joe Buck to HBO's fight commentary!
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Nov 29 2011, 01:52 PM) *
What is wrong with a man hyphenating his last name? And why do married people have to even take the others name? Makes no sense.


This statement alone, gave me the green-light to ignore your post! Congrats clapping.gif
daprofessor
i agree...larry and jim should not be commentating on hbo....but these are only 2 reasons on top of the millions of others. maybe the new boss will get rid of the dead weight?
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 30 2011, 02:58 PM) *
i agree...larry and jim should not be commentating on hbo....but these are only 2 reasons on top of the millions of others. maybe the new boss will get rid of the dead weight?


...and where the hell have you been Professor? I heard some wild dingo got loose a little while ago...I guess they recovered the last one! laugh.gif Whats up!
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 29 2011, 02:03 PM) *
This statement alone, gave me the green-light to ignore your post! Congrats clapping.gif


How could you ignore it when you just commented on it? wtf.gif Shells you know better than that....

Merchant or Limply should not be commenting on HBO. They are old and tired and I get sick and tired of them ragging on boxers they do not like. They suck! just like CShels
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Nov 30 2011, 05:34 PM) *
How could you ignore it when you just commented on it? wtf.gif Shells you know better than that....

Merchant or Limply should not be commenting on HBO. They are old and tired and I get sick and tired of them ragging on boxers they do not like. They suck! just like CShels


I replied out of context, on purpose! Duh! Anyway, Lampley kills me with his "man-crush misshaps" when commentatingfights with favored fighters and Merchant kills me with his whiskey-driven delusional analogies...but shit, HBO wouldn't be the same without these guys...I must admit. Be careful what you wish for...we could easily be stuck with a Gus Johnson looking mofo with lipstick on and absolutely no idea about the sport.
kingknockout
I think I'm in the minority when it comes to Jim Lampley on his commentating.

Without him HBO Boxing wouldn't be the same, and I say that meaning in a bad way. Dude definitely knows his boxing...

does he come off biased sometimes? you can say that...but far as his knowledge on the sport, he knows boxing.

For all of the times he's probably came off biased there's other times where he called things fair and square.

I don't think he's still in the business because he's showing favoritism to certain fighters, I think he's still around because he's just good at what he does.
HazConvictedFelonMane
It doesn't matter. I actually like the three old timers doing the commentary. At least let our current 'greats' retire before we go asking for a new announce team. People are always going to be biased. We all have the trait of leaning more towards one side than the other. Doing what the people say you can't do only makes victory more sweet. It's nice when the same people who criticized you have to eat their words. With that said, Jim and Larry are cool with me. I think they may need to step aside eventually but if Mayweather-Pacquiao happens on May 5th, there's no other announce team I'd rather hear call the action. I take the old timers over the Sky Sports dudes. My man sounds like a Lucky Charms commercial.
Cshel86
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 1 2011, 01:12 AM) *
I think I'm in the minority when it comes to Jim Lampley on his commentating.

Without him HBO Boxing wouldn't be the same, and I say that meaning in a bad way. Dude definitely knows his boxing...

does he come off biased sometimes? you can say that...but far as his knowledge on the sport, he knows boxing.

For all of the times he's probably came off biased there's other times where he called things fair and square.

I don't think he's still in the business because he's showing favoritism to certain fighters, I think he's still around because he's just good at what he does.


Spot on my brotha, spot on!

QUOTE (HazConvictedFelonMane @ Dec 1 2011, 08:35 AM) *
It doesn't matter. I actually like the three old timers doing the commentary. At least let our current 'greats' retire before we go asking for a new announce team. People are always going to be biased. We all have the trait of leaning more towards one side than the other. Doing what the people say you can't do only makes victory more sweet. It's nice when the same people who criticized you have to eat their words. With that said, Jim and Larry are cool with me. I think they may need to step aside eventually but if Mayweather-Pacquiao happens on May 5th, there's no other announce team I'd rather hear call the action. I take the old timers over the Sky Sports dudes. My man sounds like a Lucky Charms commercial.


Exactly Haz! Like I said earlier, I would hate for HBO to end up with a lipstick-wearing, Gus Johnson-looking motherfucker who knows little to nothing about the sport. Thats the kind of product you get, when you get what you asked for , before its time for change laugh.gif Yeah those Sky Sports dudes are somethin' else...something about that raspy and excited sounding voice that creeps me out dntknw.gif
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 1 2011, 06:53 PM) *
Spot on my brotha, spot on!



Exactly Haz! Like I said earlier, I would hate for HBO to end up with a lipstick-wearing, Gus Johnson-looking motherfucker who knows little to nothing about the sport. Thats the kind of product you get, when you get what you asked for , before its time for change laugh.gif Yeah those Sky Sports dudes are somethin' else...something about that raspy and excited sounding voice that creeps me out dntknw.gif


Until HBO give some of these younger guys a shot at commentating or bringing in new blood it will always be like this. People hate change for whatever reason. The time is now that they look for other guys. I promise you Mayweather will go to showtime if Merchant does his next fight. That is a promise. The time is now. They should get Benard Hopkins, Roy Jones and Kellerman to do the next fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 30 2011, 03:02 PM) *
...and where the hell have you been Professor? I heard some wild dingo got loose a little while ago...I guess they recovered the last one! laugh.gif Whats up!


wild dingo? wtf? laugh.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 2 2011, 01:34 PM) *
wild dingo? wtf? laugh.gif


Hahaha!!! I had to pick with ya bro! Will you be in the board tomorrow night?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 2 2011, 01:51 PM) *
Hahaha!!! I had to pick with ya bro! Will you be in the board tomorrow night?


laugh.gif

probably not during the fight...i'll check in afterwards.
MaxPayne
Lampley is hilarious and also a fucking joke. If I could count the number of times he kept jumping up and down over phantom punches that Pacquiao supposedly connected on, I'd be counting for years.

Another idiot is Steward. I swear that fuck kept saying "Pacquiao just looks so strong".

The Compubox stats were a sack of shit as well. I watched the fight again and scored it 115-110 for JMM. I gave 4 drawn rounds, but of the rest, I only had Pacquiao outright winning the 1st and 4th rounds, and even the first could have been a drawn 9-9 round.

Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 23 2011, 09:28 AM) *
Lampley is hilarious and also a fucking joke. If I could count the number of times he kept jumping up and down over phantom punches that Pacquiao supposedly connected on, I'd be counting for years.

Another idiot is Steward. I swear that fuck kept saying "Pacquiao just looks so strong".

Lampley is the chief of uplifting the "favored" fighter, even if they look shitty. He counted a bunch of Pacquiao's phantom punches, but the DVR shows me different. I never argue against him when a Pacquiao left lands, because it lands so damn quick, so I make sure I review it again. He praised the shit outta Khan and swore that both knockdowns were legit.

Steward can be an idiot at times because he is so pressed to get his words out, that he makes up words along the way. His 11th hour predictions when the fight takes a turn, are very annoying laugh.gif
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