Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Can anybody explain the Margarito Mayweather saga?
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
kingknockout
My apologies if this thread was done before, Boxing is my fav sport, but I am fairly naive to what actually happened around the time all of this Margarito and Mayweather talk started taking place.

I've watched many fights over the years and have heard about controversial stories from fighters, tito's wrappings, Michael Moore sitting on his corner stool being yelled at by his trainer saying his family was on the phone and to do it for them(while actually holding a cell in his hand), Oscar and him buying certain judges, leading to them giving him a win on the cards.

the chavez meldrick war, etc, the list goes on....

but was it really true that Mayweather ducked Margarito?
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 5 2011, 12:39 AM) *
My apologies if this thread was done before, Boxing is my fav sport, but I am fairly naive to what actually happened around the time all of this Margarito and Mayweather talk started taking place.

I've watched many fights over the years and have heard about controversial stories from fighters, tito's wrappings, Michael Moore sitting on his corner stool being yelled at by his trainer saying his family was on the phone and to do it for them(while actually holding a cell in his hand), Oscar and him buying certain judges, leading to them giving him a win on the cards.

the chavez meldrick war, etc, the list goes on....

but was it really true that Mayweather ducked Margarito?


From what I have been told was that Mayweather was looking to get his name up and Margs was not going to be the guy to help him get his name in lights. Plus who in their right mind would want to see that fight? Mayweather would of put an end to his career a lot faster. Just imagine if Roger found loaded gloves in Margs's wraps. That would be so great for television. Plus Bob was not giving Floyd Miguel or Tony because he knew what the outcome would of been.
streetlion1
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 4 2011, 11:39 PM) *
My apologies if this thread was done before, Boxing is my fav sport, but I am fairly naive to what actually happened around the time all of this Margarito and Mayweather talk started taking place.

I've watched many fights over the years and have heard about controversial stories from fighters, tito's wrappings, Michael Moore sitting on his corner stool being yelled at by his trainer saying his family was on the phone and to do it for them(while actually holding a cell in his hand), Oscar and him buying certain judges, leading to them giving him a win on the cards.

the chavez meldrick war, etc, the list goes on....

but was it really true that Mayweather ducked Margarito?

Yea...there was an 8million dollar offer for him to fight Cheato and he turned it down....there is also a video on youtube where Margacheato walks up to Floyd and asks him why he doesnt want to fight.

That being said I feel if they wouldve fought it woulda been almost like Mayweather vs Baldomir....Floyd wouldve cruised to a very easy decision victory...but that has been the knock on him since he hit 147...he hasnt fought any and all comers.

kingknockout
thanks
MaxPayne
Nope, it's a lot more complicated than that. This fight was supposed to have taken place right after Floyd began promoting himself, with his new business model, where he basically co-promotes and earns money from multiple revenue streams.

He took the same amount of money to fight Baldomir because fighting and beating him would make Mayweather the lineal welterweight champion.

Did you know that Mayweather is still in litigation against Arum for money he wasn't paid for that Zab Judah fight ? Given that was the prior fight, I imagine that the last thing Mayweather wanted to do was to let filthy Arum make money off of his hard work.

Also, that whole "ducking" thing only works when a guy is a legitimate threat. Even if Cheato had fought Floyd with loaded gloves, he wouldn't have landed jack shit. Floyd would have danced around him all night and landed clean, straight shots at will. He's light years ahead of Cheato as a boxer.

Margarito was a blown up fighter who fought with loaded gloves his entire career until he was caught in 2009, and even then, had lost to several guys who were middling contenders.
Cshel86
cool.gif What would we do without you Max?
Cshel86
From what was said, Floyd was offered $8M to fight Margarito, but he fought Baldomir for $12M...dont know exactly how accurate those figures are. I believe Arum owed Floyd money from Gatti AND the Judah fight, but who knows. The smartest thing to do, was exactly what he did. He fought Judah after Baldomir and was involved in a big riot that got some publicity, along with picking up a title from Zab (who was a former undisputed champ), then he went on to beat Baldomir (who pulled off an upset against Judah and won a legit title).

Then came the squabble with Merchant after the fight and the calling out of De La Hoya, which helped bring "The World Awaits" to fruition. Im sure it was waaaay more that went on behind the scenes, but the fact is, Margarito wasn't needed to make any of this happen.
sduck
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 5 2011, 12:51 AM) *
Yea...there was an 8million dollar offer for him to fight Cheato and he turned it down....there is also a video on youtube where Margacheato walks up to Floyd and asks him why he doesnt want to fight.

That being said I feel if they wouldve fought it woulda been almost like Mayweather vs Baldomir....Floyd wouldve cruised to a very easy decision victory...but that has been the knock on him since he hit 147...he hasnt fought any and all comers.


Sigh.... Do I even have to explain how stupid this video is.

Floyd claimed he fought Judah because that's a fight the fans always wanted to see, and apparently couldn't get fights with Jesse James Leija (Floyd was being too disrespectful or so he claimed, so he could only finally get the fight with Gatti instead, and Gatti had just beat Leija so it made more sense anyways), Kosta Tszyu (Don't know why this didn't happen, but can you can go back and watch the tapes, Floyd called him out three times if not more), and Ricky Hatton (Floyd claimed he approached Hatton's camp, and they refused to fight because they weren't ready. It's more evident seeing as how Hatton didn't call Floyd out until after he beat Castillo, and the fight was made). Floyd also claimed that Baldomir bid himself out, was asking for too much money.

Floyd didn't fight Margarito because he felt he was a PPV star and deserved bigger money fights, and craved a possible fight with Oscar De La Hoya for $20 Million. Bob Arum refused to give him this fight and only put Margarito on the table for $8 Million. Floyd wasn't happy with this decision, so left Top Rank, took care of the Baldomir fight and got his dream fight with Oscar. It was simply a business decision, that anyone can call dodging. Personally, I see Oscar as a more dangerous fight than Margarito.

As for Miguel Cotto. Floyd was being asked to fight Cotto at a time where he just beat Oscar and Ricky Hatton, and was now a megastar, and claimed he wouldn't mind fighting Cotto, but felt like Cotto wouldn't bring big PPV numbers. He couldn't even surpass the 1 million PPV mark with Ricky Hatton who was a bigger name to the world than Cotto was. I don't know why he retired, which added more fuel to dodging claims, including rematches with De La Hoya and Hatton. I don't even have to mention names like Paul Williams, he was a dangerous fighter at the time, but still unknown to the outer boxing world even today.
Plah
Who in their right minds think Margarito will even land on Floyd? Some people need to had their head examined. And he chose to fight Baldomir because he had the titles.
leonthegee
Margarito approched Floyd and Floyd told him to keep winning fights and make a name for yourself. But Margarito couldnt even do that. In fact hes more famous for calling out Floyd than anything that hes ever done in the ring. Basically hes Amir Khan without all the talent or skill. Drop Floyd name a few times and maybe Floyd will leave you some table scraps after he beats your ass.
PhoenixE3
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 4 2011, 11:39 PM) *
My apologies if this thread was done before, Boxing is my fav sport, but I am fairly naive to what actually happened around the time all of this Margarito and Mayweather talk started taking place.

I've watched many fights over the years and have heard about controversial stories from fighters, tito's wrappings, Michael Moore sitting on his corner stool being yelled at by his trainer saying his family was on the phone and to do it for them(while actually holding a cell in his hand), Oscar and him buying certain judges, leading to them giving him a win on the cards.

the chavez meldrick war, etc, the list goes on....

but was it really true that Mayweather ducked Margarito?


ok...margarito was NOBODY at the time...he only had a vacant belt he won fighting some bum..

ZAB JUDAH was the undisputed welterweight champ...baldomir beat judah (but didnt take the belts because of santioning fees being more than he wouldve been paid for the fight) so baldomir was the undisputed champ if u wanna be real about it...so then floyd fought baldomir and fought judah to unify the belts and people are mad that he didnt fight a guy who was basically a bum with a few good wins and instead chose the guy who just beat the undisputed champ
bnoles4life
QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 5 2011, 03:58 AM) *
Floyd didn't fight Margarito because he felt he was a PPV star and deserved bigger money fights, and craved a possible fight with Oscar De La Hoya for $20 Million. Bob Arum refused to give him this fight and only put Margarito on the table for $8 Million. Floyd wasn't happy with this decision, so left Top Rank, took care of the Baldomir fight and got his dream fight with Oscar. It was simply a business decision, that anyone can call dodging. Personally, I see Oscar as a more dangerous fight than Margarito.

As for Miguel Cotto. Floyd was being asked to fight Cotto at a time where he just beat Oscar and Ricky Hatton, and was now a megastar, and claimed he wouldn't mind fighting Cotto, but felt like Cotto wouldn't bring big PPV numbers. He couldn't even surpass the 1 million PPV mark with Ricky Hatton who was a bigger name to the world than Cotto was. I don't know why he retired, which added more fuel to dodging claims, including rematches with De La Hoya and Hatton. I don't even have to mention names like Paul Williams, he was a dangerous fighter at the time, but still unknown to the outer boxing world even today.


A lil' bit of history from what I've HEARD....A glimpse of why Arum despises Floyd and HAYMON....

1. Haymon negotiated a deal that allowed Floyd his freedom ('round 750K). THe bobfather got duped and Floyd is a painful reminder of that. Moreover, he hates how Haymon has so much influence in boxing, which I find comical considering, Bob's behavior is almost NEVER questioned by writers and is yielded seemingly limitless power. Consider this: He petitioned for the reinstatement of one of his fighters (Margs), who more than likely used hand wraps to take some life out of another one of his fighters (Cotto). If you don't think Cotto thinks about that DAILY....

2. There was talk of Floyd and Cotto fighting at 140, should Floyd make it out of the Gatti fight "alive"...we all know how that turned out and Top Rank quickly shut down that chatter. Plus, we know how that Cotto fight would've turned out, especially when Floyd would counter the hell out of him......he'd hit Floyd in the nuts to slow down that movement.

3. Arum offered $8M for the Margarito fight, but Dibella offered $8M +$1 AND belts for a fight w/ Baldomir. I would've liked to have seen Floyd vs. Margarito, but I understood the bigger picture: Fighting Margs would NOT have gotten Floyd any closer to his goal of fighting DLH and in his mind, becoming a PPV star.
toff
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 08:18 AM) *
A lil' bit of history from what I've HEARD....A glimpse of why Arum despises Floyd and HAYMON....

1. Haymon negotiated a deal that allowed Floyd his freedom ('round 750K). THe bobfather got duped and Floyd is a painful reminder of that. Moreover, he hates how Haymon has so much influence in boxing, which I find comical considering, Bob's behavior is almost NEVER questioned by writers and is yielded seemingly limitless power. Consider this: He petitioned for the reinstatement of one of his fighters (Margs), who more than likely used hand wraps to take some life out of another one of his fighters (Cotto). If you don't think Cotto thinks about that DAILY....

2. There was talk of Floyd and Cotto fighting at 140, should Floyd make it out of the Gatti fight "alive"...we all know how that turned out and Top Rank quickly shut down that chatter. Plus, we know how that Cotto fight would've turned out, especially when Floyd would counter the hell out of him......he'd hit Floyd in the nuts to slow down that movement.

3. Arum offered $8M for the Margarito fight, but Dibella offered $8M +$1 AND belts for a fight w/ Baldomir. I would've liked to have seen Floyd vs. Margarito, but I understood the bigger picture: Fighting Margs would NOT have gotten Floyd any closer to his goal of fighting DLH and in his mind, becoming a PPV star.


Probably a good thing floyd didn't fight marg because he hadn't been caught at that point
checkleft
QUOTE (toff @ Dec 5 2011, 11:24 AM) *
Probably a good thing floyd didn't fight marg because he hadn't been caught at that point


True but I don't think it would have mattered anyway. Floyd would have boxed circles around him

daprofessor
i think the majority of the points have been covered here. i'll just add that margarito was the longest reigning belt holder at the time. i totally get why he chose to fight baldomir instead and i don't consider it a duck. it's one of those things...we'll never know for sure if margarito would have been able to beat him or not...but i think not.

as for cotto...there was talk about cotto fighting him at 135...but could not get down in weight to make that happen. all that talk became moot when cotto had been rocked in a few fights by corley and torres. the talks resumed after the cotto/mosley fight when floyd decided to take a break. at that point i thought cotto/floyd was the best fight to be made but after hearing roger and floyd both talk about 'letting all these other guys fight it out and then fight the guy left standing when the smoke clears'...i understood from a business point what the plan was. can't knock the man for that either.

bottom line...floyd is on top because he has made the best decisions at the right times. too many fighters bite off more than they can chew and are forced into fights they aren't ready for. being self managed/self promoted has its' benefits if u know what u are doing and u have the pull to get the fights u want/need. there is a formula at work here...and he's executing it flawlessly so far.
dhoward126
I got the story for ya'll, give me two hours lol.
PColeman28
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 4 2011, 10:25 PM) *
Nope, it's a lot more complicated than that. This fight was supposed to have taken place right after Floyd began promoting himself, with his new business model, where he basically co-promotes and earns money from multiple revenue streams.

He took the same amount of money to fight Baldomir because fighting and beating him would make Mayweather the lineal welterweight champion.

Did you know that Mayweather is still in litigation against Arum for money he wasn't paid for that Zab Judah fight ? Given that was the prior fight, I imagine that the last thing Mayweather wanted to do was to let filthy Arum make money off of his hard work.

Also, that whole "ducking" thing only works when a guy is a legitimate threat. Even if Cheato had fought Floyd with loaded gloves, he wouldn't have landed jack shit. Floyd would have danced around him all night and landed clean, straight shots at will. He's light years ahead of Cheato as a boxer.

Margarito was a blown up fighter who fought with loaded gloves his entire career until he was caught in 2009, and even then, had lost to several guys who were middling contenders.


This is a possible reason why we never see floyd fight Top Rank Fighters in general.....Cotto, Marg etc....
bnoles4life
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Dec 5 2011, 07:04 PM) *
I got the story for ya'll, give me two hours lol.



Aight, Danny...you're on the clock, my dude!!!! clapping.gif
Cshel86
Man yall gotta start hittin' up the FH radio show on Wednesday nights...those are usually the best 2-3 hours I spend on the phone per week. Very informative...I've got a couple of chances to speak and I've heard Max on there once or twice. Well worth it! Just a suggestion ok.gif Give it a shot, Im sure you'll love it, if not, then you can go fu... nea.gif ...yall know the rest laugh.gif

QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 06:42 PM) *
Aight, Danny...you're on the clock, my dude!!!!


Yeah, make it quick Danny! search.gif

Just kiddin' laugh.gif
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 07:49 PM) *
Man yall gotta start hittin' up the FH radio show on Wednesday nights...those are usually the best 2-3 hours I spend on the phone per week. Very informative...I've got a couple of chances to speak and I've heard Max on there once or twice. Well worth it! Just a suggestion ok.gif Give it a shot, Im sure you'll love it, if not, then you can go fu... nea.gif ...yall know the rest laugh.gif



Yeah, make it quick Danny! search.gif

Just kiddin' laugh.gif


Man, I tune it weekly...if I don't get it live, I'll listen w/n the next couple of days. I love that show....i would call in, but it would really be just to go in on some of the idiots that actually call in. Like the one dude, who accused Chad Dawson of character assassinating Bernard Hopkins, due to Chad said Bernard was faking. LOL. I'm like, "how can you assassinate the character of the person who coined the phrase, 'ain't no white boy beatin' me'?

they need to do two a week and stop being stingy.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 06:57 PM) *
Man, I tune it weekly...if I don't get it live, I'll listen w/n the next couple of days. I love that show....i would call in, but it would really be just to go in on some of the idiots that actually call in. Like the one dude, who accused Chad Dawson of character assassinating Bernard Hopkins, due to Chad said Bernard was faking. LOL. I'm like, "how can you assassinate the character of the person who coined the phrase, 'ain't no white boy beatin' me'?

they need to do two a week and stop being stingy.


Hahahaha!!! I know right, once aint enough! Maybe I have a problem though...could be a combination of the two. You're talking about that guy...what about the guy who has the "Robert Guerrero Meltdown" every fuckin' week laugh.gif Dude really think Guerrero is next for Mayweather and nobody on the west coast hardly knows him. That shit always has me rollin'! While Im talkin'....I hope it wasn't you Noles!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 08:03 PM) *
Hahahaha!!! I know right, once aint enough! Maybe I have a problem though...could be a combination of the two. You're talking about that guy...what about the guy who has the "Robert Guerrero Meltdown" every fuckin' week laugh.gif Dude really think Guerrero is next for Mayweather and nobody on the west coast hardly knows him. That shit always has me rollin'! While Im talkin'....I hope it wasn't you Noles!


What about the guy who got on and told Vivek, Danny and Hype, "you guys REALLY don't know boxing cuz you've never been a fighter". The convo went something like this:

Caller: "you guys don't really know boxing as you've never fought"

Ben: "what are you talking about? I've sparred and yadda yadda"

Caller: "see, you've sparred, but never boxed. I've fought"

Ben: "okay, you're right, I"ve never fought professionally. what about you?"

Caller: "I had, like, 5 fights in GGs and a few professionally"

Me: "Ohhh, so you haven't fought either, huh?"
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 07:13 PM) *
What about the guy who got on and told Vivek, Danny and Hype, "you guys REALLY don't know boxing cuz you've never been a fighter". The convo went something like this:

Caller: "you guys don't really know boxing as you've never fought"

Ben: "what are you talking about? I've sparred and yadda yadda"

Caller: "see, you've sparred, but never boxed. I've fought"

Ben: "okay, you're right, I"ve never fought professionally. what about you?"

Caller: "I had, like, 5 fights in GGs and a few professionally"

Me: "Ohhh, so you haven't fought either, huh?"


Hahahaha!!! I dont remember that one! If it happened the week before Thxgiving, then thats when I missed it. I think I laugh the hardest when they call out an area code and a mofo will sit on the line for an hour, just to not answer when they call it laugh.gif Simple Simons laugh.gif
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 08:18 PM) *
Hahahaha!!! I dont remember that one! If it happened the week before Thxgiving, then thats when I missed it. I think I laugh the hardest when they call out an area code and a mofo will sit on the line for an hour, just to not answer when they call it laugh.gif Simple Simons laugh.gif



Naw, that happened around the time of BHop (on your back and cry foul when you get him off) and Chad Dawson. It would've been comical, if it wasn't on the show. What I think is funny is Vivek is the nicest of the lot. He rattles off, "interesting points, my man" or "you gave us something to think about, my man" like a Tourette's tic..it's automatic..lol. I sit back and think, one day Vivek is gonna be like, 'shut that bullshit up. That doesn't even make sense...surely, your dumb ass didn't hold the line for 1.5 hrs to say/ask that bullshit? Tell me it ain't so!' When he does, I will DOWNLOAD it via itunes and make it into a ringtone.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 07:27 PM) *
What I think is funny is Vivek is the nicest of the lot. He rattles off, "interesting points, my man" or "you gave us something to think about, my man" like a Tourette's tic..it's automatic..lol. I sit back and think, one day Vivek is gonna be like, 'shut that bullshit up. That doesn't even make sense...surely, your dumb ass didn't hold the line for 1.5 hrs to say/ask that bullshit? Tell me it ain't so!' When he does, I will DOWNLOAD it via itunes and make it into a ringtone.


Hahahaha!!! Vivek is bound to lose it one day! He does say that ALL THE TIME! Ha! He keeps things cool though. Ben's ass is always on the phone and comes back with that "end all be all" info that gets everybody quiet as hell laugh.gif "I just got off the phone with Alex Ariza after like 40 minutes man...<long ass moment of silence>man, that was, that was, <sigh>...thaaaat was some pretty interesting stuff man". laugh.gif

He always give everybody that "It's only contestants remaining" type feeling with that moment of silence laugh.gif Danny doesn't give a damn, he will debate with a caller to the bloody end, but will still allow an asshole caller to stay on the line and listen afterwards. "Irrrellllevent" - Danny laugh.gif Funniest shit ever! Dammit Wednesdays are the best!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 08:42 PM) *
Hahahaha!!! Vivek is bound to lose it one day! He does say that ALL THE TIME! Ha! He keeps things cool though. Ben's ass is always on the phone and comes back with that "end all be all" info that gets everybody quiet as hell laugh.gif "I just got off the phone with Alex Ariza after like 40 minutes man...<long ass moment of silence>man, that was, that was, <sigh>...thaaaat was some pretty interesting stuff man". laugh.gif

He always give everybody that "It's only contestants remaining" type feeling with that moment of silence laugh.gif Danny doesn't give a damn, he will debate with a caller to the bloody end, but will still allow an asshole caller to stay on the line and listen afterwards. "Irrrellllevent" - Danny laugh.gif Funniest shit ever! Dammit Wednesdays are the best!



Danny is my dude. He'll be quiet for the longest until he can't hold it any longer...he's like, "Okay, no way! Ain't gonna happen!...". I soooo am gonna call one day and rave on and on about how much of a stud Brand Rios is and how Adrian Broner can beat anyone from 135 on down. HE IS GONNA BLOW A GASKET!!!!
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 08:12 PM) *
Danny is my dude. He'll be quiet for the longest until he can't hold it any longer...he's like, "Okay, no way! Ain't gonna happen!...". I soooo am gonna call one day and rave on and on about how much of a stud Brand Rios is and how Adrian Broner can beat anyone from 135 on down. HE IS GONNA BLOW A GASKET!!!!


laugh.gif I'll hold you to that one too Noles! Danny wont hold any punches when you take him there! My dude! Irrrrelevent!
dhoward126
Several thanks for the love for the show! BTW, the guy that has the meltdowns (which I nearly pissed myself from laughing) is Robert's PR guy as if you couldn't tell. Wednesday's are great, but I'm always free to talk boxing on my Facebook and Skype so always give me a holler. A promise is a promise though, here's the story of Margarito-Mayweather:

Margarito and Mayweather were actually supposed to fight in 2006, as a matter of fact they were going to fight and that video in January wasn't a punk-out move like many would think. That was for the sole purpose of promoting that fight, which was scheduled to happen in the Fall of 2006 after Mayweather faced off against Zab Judah. Problem was, Judah was beaten by Carlos Baldozar and threw out the luster of a Judah-Mayweather fight...or so we thought.

What people failed to bring up at this point was that at the time of the video (January), Margarito was coming off his first win over Kermit Cintron on a horrific ESPN PPV card in 2005 and was his second fight after losing to Daniel Santos at 154 pounds and nobody knew who he was, so Arum created a moniker for Margarito that spun his anonymity in a positive light since he was so unknown: He became "The Most Feared Fighter In Boxing."

Nonetheless, thanks to the efforts of boxinqtalk (Big Ben himself was a part of this) Arum was convinced that Judah-Mayweather was still the bigger fight to make and left Margarito in the dust. I reiterate at this time Mayweather and Margarito were both under contract with Arum and as we've seen in recent memory, that alone should make the fight end of story, but Arum made the choice that would make him the most money and Judah, not Margarito, was the opponent to do it.

After Floyd beat Judah, he bought out the rest of his contract and sued Arum because Arum withheld money from the Judah fight and guess what? They are STILL in litigation over that! Pacquiao-Mayweather eat your heart out. So Floyd makes the fight with the lineal, #1 Welterweight in the world and makes a career-high payday against Baldozar and Arum boo hoo's saying that Mayweather is a coward for not fighting Margarito and then began turning the wheels for Cotto-Margarito when they were featured in a Showtime double-header in December of that year...Margarito's second fight of the year and first on a major network for 2006.

I believe though, that the $8 million was on the table for Margarito *TO A DEGREE.* Drop the lawsuit, Arum adds it in the purse and a little contract extension here and here's your "$8 million dollars" with Arum making a bit, of course. Floyd wanted nothing to do with Old Man Arum anymore and Margarito was an unknown fighter who's claim to fame at the time was bitching and crying about how nobody wanted to fight him, whereas Baldozar had a backstory, actually been on TV twice at that point and casual fans were FULLY behind him going into the fight.

Floyd would've destroyed Margarito at that time anyway, the dude had just been boxed silly by Danny Santos two fights prior. As a side note, after the Santos fight was the Lujan fight which I believe was the first time Margarito "gloved up."

Sorry if it was a lot, but it really is a fascinating story!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Dec 5 2011, 09:29 PM) *
Several thanks for the love for the show! BTW, the guy that has the meltdowns (which I nearly pissed myself from laughing) is Robert's PR guy as if you couldn't tell. Wednesday's are great, but I'm always free to talk boxing on my Facebook and Skype so always give me a holler. A promise is a promise though, here's the story of Margarito-Mayweather:

Margarito and Mayweather were actually supposed to fight in 2006, as a matter of fact they were going to fight and that video in January wasn't a punk-out move like many would think. That was for the sole purpose of promoting that fight, which was scheduled to happen in the Fall of 2006 after Mayweather faced off against Zab Judah. Problem was, Judah was beaten by Carlos Baldozar and threw out the luster of a Judah-Mayweather fight...or so we thought.

What people failed to bring up at this point was that at the time of the video (January), Margarito was coming off his first win over Kermit Cintron on a horrific ESPN PPV card in 2005 and was his second fight after losing to Daniel Santos at 154 pounds and nobody knew who he was, so Arum created a moniker for Margarito that spun his anonymity in a positive light since he was so unknown: He became "The Most Feared Fighter In Boxing."

Nonetheless, thanks to the efforts of boxinqtalk (Big Ben himself was a part of this) Arum was convinced that Judah-Mayweather was still the bigger fight to make and left Margarito in the dust. I reiterate at this time Mayweather and Margarito were both under contract with Arum and as we've seen in recent memory, that alone should make the fight end of story, but Arum made the choice that would make him the most money and Judah, not Margarito, was the opponent to do it.

After Floyd beat Judah, he bought out the rest of his contract and sued Arum because Arum withheld money from the Judah fight and guess what? They are STILL in litigation over that! Pacquiao-Mayweather eat your heart out. So Floyd makes the fight with the lineal, #1 Welterweight in the world and makes a career-high payday against Baldozar and Arum boo hoo's saying that Mayweather is a coward for not fighting Margarito and then began turning the wheels for Cotto-Margarito when they were featured in a Showtime double-header in December of that year...Margarito's second fight of the year and first on a major network for 2006.

I believe though, that the $8 million was on the table for Margarito *TO A DEGREE.* Drop the lawsuit, Arum adds it in the purse and a little contract extension here and here's your "$8 million dollars" with Arum making a bit, of course. Floyd wanted nothing to do with Old Man Arum anymore and Margarito was an unknown fighter who's claim to fame at the time was bitching and crying about how nobody wanted to fight him, whereas Baldozar had a backstory, actually been on TV twice at that point and casual fans were FULLY behind him going into the fight.

Floyd would've destroyed Margarito at that time anyway, the dude had just been boxed silly by Danny Santos two fights prior. As a side note, after the Santos fight was the Lujan fight which I believe was the first time Margarito "gloved up."

Sorry if it was a lot, but it really is a fascinating story!


Wow. F*ck'n, wow. Thanks Danny.....just for that, I won't prank call you guys and profess my love for all things Brandon Rios....you've at least earned that courtesy. taunt.gif
Cshel86
This was a great piece...though I knew most parts of it because of Floyd himself and putting 2 and 2 together. This guy (FMJ) puts shit like this out all the time, but people pick and choose what they want to believe, and continue to believe the ducking rumors.

It takes his side of the story that much longer to come to fruition because folks catch Pasnesia and ignore shit. This was very informative and it had small parts that I nearly had no clue of, but the biggest part of the story that I didn't know around that time frame was...yep, you got it...Mr. Antonio Margarito laugh.gif

Noles, you dont have to make that exact prank call, simply because you've already revealed it...so, Im gonna need for you to cook up some other form of pissing Danny off! Oh yeah, I didn't know that the "Guerrero Meltdown" guy was one of Robert's PRs...totally hilarious laugh.gif He sounded so sincere, and delusional at the same time!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 09:57 PM) *
Noles, you dont have to make that exact prank call, simply because you've already revealed it...so, Im gonna need for you to cook up some other form of pissing Danny off! Oh yeah, I didn't know that the "Guerrero Meltdown" guy was one of Robert's PRs...totally hilarious laugh.gif He sounded so sincere, and delusional at the same time!


Yeah, I know. I just wanted to let Danny know how close he came to goin' off an a dude who had ZERO sincerity behind the dumb ass statements I would've concocted. fuck.gif Hell, in a few years, much like the above piece, we'll be talking about, "let me tell u the story of Danny Howard and this idiot caller..."

Cshel86
Hell, I should create a pinned up FH Radio thread and keep it up top with the FMJ/Pac Negotiations thread laugh.gif It would be something to comment and laugh at while we're all on hold waiting! Hmmm...that isn't a half-bad idea Noles....
The Original MrFactor
I guess my take is a bit different. Margarito was at one time the most avoided guy at WW. Cats like Tito, Forrest, Mosley and DLH had all moved up to 154 and 160. So that left Mayorga, who was offered a Margarito fight. Mayorga moved up too. Along comes Judah, who wins THE LINEAR title from Cory Spinks. Instead of unifying with a fight against Margarito(who I've read tried to get the fight), he defends against two no hopers, Cosme Rivera and Carlos(gulp)Baldomir. The only thing is Baldomir won.

Soooo, along comes Mayweather, who was lining up a Judah fight, but ole Baldy screwed everything up. Since may and Judah are friends behind the scenes, they still agreed to fight because the money was right. This locks out Margarito to some degree. After beating Judah, Arum offers up a lucrative match between Mayweather and Margarito. This was a fight MOST wanted to see. This was also around the time that DLH started stirring up interest in fighting Mayweather. Soooo... Mayweather complains that he hurt his hand after the Judah fight, thus skipping out on Margarito. Then he buys himself out of his Top Rank contract. He then sets up a Baldomir fight to save face because he took a huge loss in public perception with regard to fighting Margarito. About Margarito, he stated that he'd be "Easy Work!!" He said" If it makes dollars, it makes sense!!" All that was said and at the time Mayweather had never made 8million to fight anyone. Thats what was reported to be offered for Mayweather/Margarito.

May turned down Margarito and got some offer from Dan goosen that helped him save face. The offer was reported at 8million + 1. So mayweather could say that he was offered more for a Baldomir fight. Baldomir was a safe fight that was winnable. Margarito, at the time was big and imposing as a WW. Baldomir was short, less imposing and had very few KOs on his record. Easier money for May. Despite what people say, he DID duck Margarito. Goosen bailed him out with the +1, to help him save face. At the time Margarito was in his prime and a very dangerous fight for Mayweather. Mayweather was still a smallish WW who depended on his speed and reach to beat guys. He beats Baldomir relatively easily. People like to say he would have done the same to Margarito. I doubt it. People dont understand the dimensions involved. Margarito could effectively hit May because he has the reach to do so. Mayweather was going to get hit that nite. Baldomir didnt have the reach or height to really deal with Mayweather. Margarito was bigger, stronger, longer reach and more relentless than Baldomir. May couldnt hurt baldomir and would not have hurt margarito either. At the time I picked Margarito to beat Mayweather. I still think he gives May a tough fight because of his size, reach and relentlessness.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 5 2011, 10:51 PM) *
Soooo, along comes Mayweather, who was lining up a Judah fight, but ole Baldy screwed everything up. Since may and Judah are friends behind the scenes, they still agreed to fight because the money was right. This locks out Margarito to some degree. After beating Judah, Arum offers up a lucrative match between Mayweather and Margarito. This was a fight MOST wanted to see. This was also around the time that DLH started stirring up interest in fighting Mayweather. Soooo... Mayweather complains that he hurt his hand after the Judah fight, thus skipping out on Margarito. Then he buys himself out of his Top Rank contract. He then sets up a Baldomir fight to save face because he took a huge loss in public perception with regard to fighting Margarito. About Margarito, he stated that he'd be "Easy Work!!" He said" If it makes dollars, it makes sense!!" All that was said and at the time Mayweather had never made 8million to fight anyone. Thats what was reported to be offered for Mayweather/Margarito.


Original, what say you about Danny's assertion that $8M was included w/ options on future Mayweather fights? Furthermore, are you saying Floyd bought out his contract in order NOT to face Margs?
Cshel86
rolleyes_anim.gif Poor Margarito...all that desire to land a big fight, but a slick ass promoter who chose to make the Mayweather/Judah fight. Hmmm..I wonder why..maybe because May and Judah had names. Poor Margarito...if only he had name at the time. Is it safe to feel bad for a cheater? when he got those opportunities to make a name for himself, what did he do?

He got it the ski-mask way and started loading those good ol' gloves up. So he beat Cintron into a pre-retirement stage of his career before it was actually time. He knocked the ear of Jujan off his big ass head. He totally horse-fucked Cotto's career, and tried to kill Shane months later. He got caught, got the boot, had a lackluster comeback, THEN Karma served a him a nice-sized dish of an old-fashioned ass-whoopin' that was never even threatened to be stopped by the ref who's better judgement was on vacation. Poor Margarito rolleyes_anim.gif

He ended up with a fucked up eye (for life) and STILL got another opportunity to get a big payday. I guess his promoter felt that he owed him a fair shake since the Mayweather fight fell through, why?...you got it...because he didn't have name at the time anyhow. Bet he has one now. He seized his opportunity at big paydays and exposure...yep he sure did, he tried to kill a few fighters in the ring, got paid for it, lost his license, got a second chance at the spotlight, fucked it up and lost an eye, and he just got another big paycheck. Poor Margarito rolleyes_anim.gif

I believe this non-deserving, plaster-using, street lamp-lookin' cyclops had his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of other's fighters's health. His bullshit has run its course and the record is skipping. He got paid for all of this bullshit in the process. Poor Margarito rolleyes_anim.gif Who gives a shit about him anymore? Fuck 'em....
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 11:11 PM) *
I believe this non-deserving, plaster-using, street lamp-lookin' cyclops had his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of other's fighters's health. His bullshit has run its course and the record is skipping. He got paid for all of this bullshit in the process. Poor Margarito rolleyes_anim.gif Who gives a shit about him anymore? Fuck 'em....


Shely...I got admit man...I'm unsure where you stand on this subject. no2.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 10:19 PM) *
Shely...I got admit man...I'm unsure where you stand on this subject. no2.gif


Sadly, I dont either no2.gif
Cshel86
I guess I just dont wanna hear anybody defending Margarito around that time frame. If he was the "most avoided welterweight"...then he damn sure should've been...for obvious reasons of foul play though, not his skills (or lack there of).
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 5 2011, 11:27 PM) *
I guess I just dont wanna hear anybody defending Margarito around that time frame. If he was the "most avoided welterweight"...then he damn sure should've been...for obvious reasons of foul play though, not his skills (or lack there of).



I still don't see how Margs was gonna hit Floyd, especially when you consider how much of a slow starter he was. LOL.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 10:30 PM) *
I still don't see how Margs was gonna hit Floyd, especially when you consider how much of a slow starter he was. LOL.


I can imagine it would've been a boring fight anyhow...probably would've been like the Baldomir fight laugh.gif I mean really, Floyd had his sights set on Oscar, so Idoubt if he would've been crazy enough to risk and exchange with Margarito or Baldomir.

Please excuse my soapbox of sarcasm earlier laugh.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 5 2011, 10:08 PM) *
Original, what say you about Danny's assertion that $8M was included w/ options on future Mayweather fights? Furthermore, are you saying Floyd bought out his contract in order NOT to face Margs?



I dont deny that there were probably options. I counter that with, there are always options. There were likely some options in his deal with Goosen or even Goldenboy also. Its a matter of choosing who you want to do business with. Whoever gets you the best situation for your career. Thats the nature of hiring a promoter. Goosen gave him a face saving deal and he smartly took it. That deal had options somewhere too. Goosen doesn nothing for free.

Even now, mayweather touts being his own boss. I havent seen Mayweather productions promote a fight without the Goldenboy banner being attached. No knock on Floyd, if thats the way the business works. Apparently Goldenboy has options, so it seems that options mean very little. Its all about who you choose to do business with.
It appears that Mayweather and Arum hate each other.
dhoward126
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 6 2011, 04:36 AM) *
I dont deny that there were probably options. I counter that with, there are always options. There were likely some options in his deal with Goosen or even Goldenboy also. Its a matter of choosing who you want to do business with. Whoever gets you the best situation for your career. Thats the nature of hiring a promoter. Goosen gave him a face saving deal and he smartly took it. That deal had options somewhere too. Goosen doesn nothing for free.

Even now, mayweather touts being his own boss. I havent seen Mayweather productions promote a fight without the Goldenboy banner being attached. No knock on Floyd, if thats the way the business works. Apparently Goldenboy has options, so it seems that options mean very little. Its all about who you choose to do business with.
It appears that Mayweather and Arum hate each other.



That's because Mayweather promotions leases Golden Boy's services for press releases, media days etc. You know who else did that back in the day? Sugar Ray Leonard. When Ray turned pro, he didn't want to be attached to a promoter so at the behest of his adviser, a very good lawyer named Mike Trainer, he created Sugar Ray Leonard Promotions and because Ray was such a hot ticket everybody wanted to fight him. Ray made Mayweather money in the 80s because he didn't do any of that pre-fight work, he made the OTHER promoter do that for him.

Face-saving deal? What does that mean anyway? More fights don't happen in boxing more than they do...I don't see what you are trying to say here. I actually think you may be confused as to what "options" are.

If Goosen had options on Mayweather, then he would have a say as to who Mayweather fought and would be a co-promoter for the event, likely against a Goosen fighter, and would have a split in the overall earnings. This is there reason why guys like Tavoris Cloud and Devon Alexander had such a hard time getting opponents because they are promoted by Don King who asks options on EVERYBODY and that's why nobody wants to make fights with them. Jean Pascal and Tavoris Cloud were very close to fighting this month, but DKP wanted options on Pascal and Yvon Durel said something along the lines of "get the fuck out of here."

Goosen didn't ask for options on Mayweather, the biggest fighter Goosen had in 2006 was Baldomir and probably Edison Miranda, he was in desperate need of a payout and he got one with the Mayweather fight.
thehype
As far as I know, Goossen was just happy to attach his name to an event that involved Mayweather's name. It wasn't Goossen that gave him the $$ to fight Baldomir, it was HBO. Goossen was basically just handpicked as the promoter of record because they needed one (i.e. they needed someone with a promoter's license). There were no options with Goossen and there are no options with Golden Boy.
Cshel86
Wasn't Floyd somewhat of a free agent around that time anyway? Probably explains why somebody with a promoter's license was needed. Yay?
MaxPayne
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 6 2011, 09:45 AM) *
Wasn't Floyd somewhat of a free agent around that time anyway? Probably explains why somebody with a promoter's license was needed. Yay?


Exactly. If I remember correctly, the Zab Judah fight was the last one that Floyd fought under the Top Rank banner.
Allmenjoi8
Again if he fought Margarito would he really get more credit on the list of people he has fought? People would of disregard that fight as they have done with Baldomire. Instead they would ask "How come he ducked the champion?" I can understand if people want to bring up Cotto and other boxers that he so called ducked (including a prime Shane, but we know that truth behind that too), but Margarito? It should be a non issue. Next thing you know they will say that he should of fought Trinidad. No matter who he fights or does not fight he will never be respected.
Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 6 2011, 10:42 AM) *
Exactly. If I remember correctly, the Zab Judah fight was the last one that Floyd fought under the Top Rank banner.


Yep...

QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 6 2011, 11:12 AM) *
Again if he fought Margarito would he really get more credit on the list of people he has fought? People would of disregard that fight as they have done with Baldomire. Instead they would ask "How come he ducked the champion?" I can understand if people want to bring up Cotto and other boxers that he so called ducked (including a prime Shane, but we know that truth behind that too), but Margarito? It should be a non issue. Next thing you know they will say that he should of fought Trinidad. No matter who he fights or does not fight he will never be respected.


If he would've fought Margarito and won back then, he would've received credit for it, but not at that particular time though. Like its been said, Margarito was still relatively unknown back then, but had Margarito went on to beat the same people that's beaten since then, then Floyd would get credit for that fight...or either it would've set Margarito back that much further, had he lost to Floyd back then.

All of those other fighters that people claim he ducked, were either TR fighters or they were under another promotional banner and unknown. He called Shane and Oscar out waaay back in the day (when he was a lightweight, hell, maybe before then).
dhoward126
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 6 2011, 11:29 AM) *
Yep...



If he would've fought Margarito and won back then, he would've received credit for it, but not at that particular time though. Like its been said, Margarito was still relatively unknown back then, but had Margarito went on to beat the same people that's beaten since then, then Floyd would get credit for that fight...or either it would've set Margarito back that much further, had he lost to Floyd back then.


Baldozar was the #1 Welterweight in the world at that time, not Margarito and if Floyd fought Margarito as I stated earlier, then they'd be like "Oh, well he fought the guy Baldomir beat instead of Baldomir and now he's fighting this guy? What gives? Floyd is a coward!" Margarito didn't do himself any favors honestly when Joshua Clottey nearly beat him in December, I think that's around the time Margarito shut his mouth about wanting for fight Mayweather and everybody started looking forward to DLH/PBF.
Cshel86
QUOTE (dhoward126 @ Dec 6 2011, 12:08 PM) *
Baldozar was the #1 Welterweight in the world at that time


+1

That reason alone, killed Margarito's chances and gave Mayweather enough of a reason to overlook him and proceed with Baldomir. From what I remember, Baldomir was the undisputed champ that could only afford one title laugh.gif You're right about the opinions of fans if FMJ would've done the opposite. Then again, who knows...maybe he would've got kudos for fighting "the most feared welterweight", but his pockets would've looked a bit funny afterwards laugh.gif

This example alone should give those "overly-emotional match-making fanatics" out there a reason to STFU, but know that will never happen. You have to give a fighter credit for wanting to fight the more lucrative fights...I mean damn, these guys were child fighters in training, amateurs, olympic fighters and such...but they did all of that FOR FREE. So yeah, I can understand a fighter basically saying, "to hell with trying to make everybody happy, I want to make my money".
K18
I'm trying to find the article I read, where Floyd wanted Arum to give him 10 mil to fight Cotto or Margarito, he even threw in Hatton.......Hatton and Cotto's camp stated their fighters were not ready for Floyd at the time. Arum only was offering 8 mil to Floyd and was telling him that he couldn't make that type of money(ref the 10 mil). Floyd was pissed at being slighted by Arum, enter in the offer 8 mil, plus one dollar for a Championship bout....let me ask anyone here, fight some guy who many people outside of boxing didn't know, or fight for a Belt against a Champion??? Exactly go get the belt. Floyd also told Arum he wanted to fight De La Hoya for 20 mil, Arum scoffed at that idea, thinking there was no way Floyd would get that type of cash....guess what he left Arum and fought Hatton for 12-15 mil???( Not sure) may be more and got his 20+ mil dollar payday vs DLH.

A lot of you know who's fans have always called out Floyd for ducking guys, like Mosley....yet he was calling them out trying to land a payday way back when.....no one questions Mosley for avoiding Floyd to go fight DLH....its simple, its business...fight a young hungry talented fighter in Floyd for 1 to 1.5 mil and possibly lose, or go fight DLH for twice that much and if Mosley loses, it doesn't hurt his career.







This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.