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iKeNjiro
WBC demands immediate rematch
Dawson vs Hopkins

And also JCC Jr. has to fight his mandatory Martinez at 160

JCC Jr. vs Martinez

Your thoughts on this?
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (iKeNjiro @ Dec 15 2011, 08:34 PM) *
WBC demands immediate rematch
Dawson vs Hopkins

And also JCC Jr. has to fight his mandatory Martinez at 160

JCC Jr. vs Martinez

Your thoughts on this?


JCC Jr. will vacate that belt before they put him in the ring with Sergio

Dawson vs. Hopkins, this fight will sell! But I am not buying the PPV.
mgrover
hopkins can beat dawson but no matter what he does in that fight people will always accuse him of looking for a way out in the first fight.


jcc jr will vacate and then arum will set him up some shitty IBF or some meaningless vacant title.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 15 2011, 07:49 PM) *
JCC Jr. will vacate that belt before they put him in the ring with Sergio

Dawson vs. Hopkins, this fight will sell! But I am not buying the PPV.

Actually, he wont vacate it...Arum will find a way to keep that belt under the TR banner...this situation is far too simple for Bob to not know how to wiggle his way out of it. C'mon, he knocked more than a few fighters back a notch or two, just to protect his own.

...and no, Dawson vs Hopkins wont sell, hence the lackluster numbers for the first fight. Then to add insult to injury, the wack ass ending did its job. How can someone who only buys 2 PPVs a year (if that), scream and holler about this fight selling? ESPECIALLY if they didn't even buy or watch the first one. Really?



QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 15 2011, 08:15 PM) *
hopkins can beat dawson but no matter what he does in that fight people will always accuse him of looking for a way out in the first fight.

+1

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 15 2011, 08:15 PM) *
jcc jr will vacate and then arum will set him up some shitty IBF or some meaningless vacant title.

Now THIS could very well be a possibility...
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 01:41 AM) *
Now THIS could very well be a possibility...


watch out am going to become the next big promoter in the UK haha already figured out all the dirty underhanded tactics.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 15 2011, 08:51 PM) *
watch out am going to become the next big promoter in the UK haha already figured out all the dirty underhanded tactics.

You have my support! Dont forget though, there are 80-year old windbags out there who can pull a fast one outta their ass and mess things up. He may be slightly senile, but he'll never forget how to screw somebody laugh.gif
Cheesey1
Good news re. both matches. It'll be interesting to see if Allmenjoi's prediction turns out to be right about JCC Jr. vacating his title because he doesn't want to fight Martinez and as a result forever shaming CShel (nothing beats instigating).

Apart from that, no brainer here, Martinez wins easily.

As far as Hopkins vs. Dawson, got to pick Dawson.
checkleft
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Dec 15 2011, 10:27 PM) *
Good news re. both matches. It'll be interesting to see if Allmenjoi's prediction turns out to be right about JCC Jr. vacating his title because he doesn't want to fight Martinez and as a result forever shaming CShel (nothing beats instigating).

Apart from that, no brainer here, Martinez wins easily.

As far as Hopkins vs. Dawson, got to pick Dawson.


+1 that..

No way arum puts his future cash cow in there with an actual live opponent.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Dec 15 2011, 09:27 PM) *
Good news re. both matches. It'll be interesting to see if Allmenjoi's prediction turns out to be right about JCC Jr. vacating his title because he doesn't want to fight Martinez and as a result forever shaming CShel (nothing beats instigating).

Apart from that, no brainer here, Martinez wins easily.

As far as Hopkins vs. Dawson, got to pick Dawson.

Hahahaha!!! Whatever Cheesey! Does anybody think Martinez will be as effective, being the fact that Chavez will come in at 180 on fight night? Yay? Nay?
checkleft
I think he will be. He rehydrates to about 175 himself, it will be interesting to see how chavez will react to his power. I also want to see how he will approach martinez assuming this is even getting made. Arum would sooner fake chavez kidnapping than put him in the ring with Martinez.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 15 2011, 08:41 PM) *
Actually, he wont vacate it...Arum will find a way to keep that belt under the TR banner...this situation is far too simple for Bob to not know how to wiggle his way out of it. C'mon, he knocked more than a few fighters back a notch or two, just to protect his own.

...and no, Dawson vs Hopkins wont sell, hence the lackluster numbers for the first fight. Then to add insult to injury, the wack ass ending did its job. How can someone who only buys 2 PPVs a year (if that), scream and holler about this fight selling? ESPECIALLY if they didn't even buy or watch the first one. Really?


Keep shitting on my 2 PPvs. LOL I had to laugh at that. This fight will sell. I promise you. They will pump it to the point I may consider buying it but I am not regardless.
JCC Jr. is not going to fight Sergio I promise you that, he will fake an injury or run Mayor in a Mexican town. It will not happen.

QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 15 2011, 10:06 PM) *
Hahahaha!!! Whatever Cheesey! Does anybody think Martinez will be as effective, being the fact that Chavez will come in at 180 on fight night? Yay? Nay?


Chavez can come in a 200 pounds, it will not make a difference his skill set is still the same. He can't box for crap, hell you hit harder than Chavez. He does not have the skills to beat Sergio or even the movement. 10 round TKO Sergio
Plah
Sergio by decapitation (if the fight somehow happens, which I doubt).

Dawson by UD. Then we get to watch Hopkins bitching about it.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 16 2011, 09:16 AM) *
Sergio by decapitation (if the fight somehow happens, which I doubt).

Dawson by UD. Then we get to watch Hopkins bitching about it.

"By decapitation" - ha!
Cheesey1
I don't think that what they weigh on fight night will make any difference. He grossly outweighed Zbick and still couldn't knock him out, so even if somehow he outweighs Martinez I don't think that it'll matter.
Seek
I bought the Hopkins Dawson ppv. That shit was upsetting man. I think they made the right call to demand a rematch. Hopkins better step up and defend his belt. Dawson was comin for his ass. I won't buy it if it's on ppv unless they come up with an AMAZING undercard.

Sulaiman said Chavez Jr. either has to vacate the title or fight Martinez UNLESS the promoters, Arum and Dibella work out a deal. Bob really wants to make Chavez Jr-Cotto. Could it be possible he offers Dibella the winner of that to face Martinez? That would be wild. Imagine Cotto defending the 160 belt against Martinez lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 12:14 AM) *
He rehydrates to about 175 himself, it will be interesting to see how chavez will react to his power.

He actually rehydrates to 165 (according to his last fight). I dont believe Sergio is a big MW, I think he primarily moved up because he couldn't get fights that he wanted at 54 (if there was even any competition at the time), nobody wanted to fight him at 54, or the first two reasons + the fact that he could grab the MW title and make more money. The Pavlik fight was great, but Pavlik was done at MW, or the brewskies did a number on him laugh.gif

QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 12:14 AM) *
Arum would sooner fake chavez kidnapping than put him in the ring with Martinez.

laugh.gif

Let's not rule this out!

QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 01:12 AM) *
JCC Jr. is not going to fight Sergio I promise you that, he will fake an injury or run Mayor in a Mexican town. It will not happen.
Chavez can come in a 200 pounds, it will not make a difference his skill set is still the same. He can't box for crap, hell you hit harder than Chavez. He does not have the skills to beat Sergio or even the movement. 10 round TKO Sergio

Let's not pretend like Chavez is afraid of Sergio, this is all of Arum's work. I dont believe any fighter is afraid to fight another fighter. If thats the case, why fight? Arum will keep Chavez away from opponents who will likely give him too much trouble, or defeat him. If Chavez came in at 200 pounds, he NOR Martinez would be effective in that fight. Last time I checked, effective pressure/stalking was a skill...so if Sergio doesn't get off first, then we may see a different fight. Martinez has the movement, but he will have a tree to chop down that night.

Sergio only comes in at 165 (according to his last bout that Im sure you didn't watch) on fight night, vs Chavez's 180...so this wont be as easy as it seems. Again, Im sure that you didn't watch the Chavez/Zbik fight either, this guy couldn't do anything with Chavez because of the weight and his lack of punching power. Let's ALL please stop making it seem as if Sergio is this world-beater who can knock everybody out. He may won his last few fights by KO/TKO, but c'mon.

People put waaaay too much mustard on the Paul Williams KO. Please! Paul Williams is notoriously known for being lazy with keeping his left hand up. Hell, he was getting caught with the same punch in the first fight (which Im sure you didn't watch either). Who cant knock Paul Williams out at this point of his career? Point is, Sergio isn't a big MW (rehydrating 5 lbs over the official weight is evidence) and Chavez should be a damn super middleweight, but he looks good at knocking around smaller middleweights OR middleweights with no power, that should be Jr.

MWs. Martinez has pop in his punches, but I cant really fly off the handle and say that he just destroys Chavez. Of course you would fly off the handle and say such things, but its evident that you haven't even watched these fights, and if you did, then you didn't even know what to look for. Sounds like you enjoy repeating what everyone else says.
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 01:12 AM) *
Keep shitting on my 2 PPvs. LOL I had to laugh at that. This fight will sell. I promise you. They will pump it to the point I may consider buying it but I am not regardless.

This fight WILL NOT sell! At this point, Im convinced that you have the slightest clue how PPVs work. Chad Dawson was LUCKY to headline a PPV, he definitely isn't a PPV draw. Hopkins has sold some PPVs in his career, I wont go as far as saying that he slaps a million buys the face everytime he headlines a PPV, but he's sold a decent amount, given his "hate him or love him" personality and fighting style. Just do yourself a favor and not even speak about whether a PPV will sell or not, had you posted this months ago, you'd been in the quicksand already.

QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Dec 16 2011, 10:34 AM) *
I don't think that what they weigh on fight night will make any difference. He grossly outweighed Zbick and still couldn't knock him out, so even if somehow he outweighs Martinez I don't think that it'll matter.

He hardly went for head shots in the Zbik fight...he was doing mostly body work. Chavez knew he could beat this dude, and his dad was getting all of that praise that night (as he should've), so Jr. was doing it Sr. style with body shots. He honestly could've had Zbik outta there a early.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 16 2011, 11:04 AM) *
I bought the Hopkins Dawson ppv. That shit was upsetting man. I think they made the right call to demand a rematch. Hopkins better step up and defend his belt. Dawson was comin for his ass. I won't buy it if it's on ppv unless they come up with an AMAZING undercard.

Sulaiman said Chavez Jr. either has to vacate the title or fight Martinez UNLESS the promoters, Arum and Dibella work out a deal. Bob really wants to make Chavez Jr-Cotto. Could it be possible he offers Dibella the winner of that to face Martinez? That would be wild. Imagine Cotto defending the 160 belt against Martinez lol

Dawson/Hopkins had great undercards, but as you said, the main event was upsetting. If you bought the first one, then Im sure you'll buy the rematch. I had my doubts before I bought the first one, but it actually turned out to be decent...aside from the crappy ending.

There just may be a possibility that this title could be vacated...since you brought up the promoters working out a deal. THIS will be the hardest part, because DiBella publicly talks shit about Arum and let's the world know that he hates his guts. There may have been a few DiBella/Top Ranks fights this year that I may not have known about, but when we speak of throwing their cash cows in there...thats where the petty bickering begins with these two. Gotta love DiBella for putting Arum on blast though laugh.gif

I dont see Cotto fighting Chavez...can you say, massacre? Waaaay too much of a height and weight difference. Even a Cotto Martinez fight may be a bit too much for Cotto. Between the two...a Martinez fight would be more likely, but Cotto would have to deal with that movement, power, and reach advantage of Martinez. I could even see Martinez coming down to 54 for this one, but no one wants to see Cotto bloated and slower at MW. That Chavez fight should be waaaay out of the question.

Cotto;
H: 5'7
R: 67"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...a bloated and slow 165 on fight night.

Martinez:
H: 5'10
R: 75"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...a healthy rehydrated 165 on fight night.

Chavez Jr:
H: 6'0
R: 75"
Weight at MW...160 on the head at the weigh-in...an enormous 180 on fight night.

So yes, I could see a Cotto/Martinez fight at 154, but not a Cotto vs Martinez or Chavez Jr. at MW.
Seek
People are still hating on Chavez Jr. This kid comes to fight and he has showed a lot of discipline and improvement in his last few fights. I was surprised to see him fight tall and box on the outside vs Manfredo. Normally he never takes a step backwards and works you on the inside. Great body puncher like his pops. He's doesn't have ko power but he's got good power and killer instinct. I hope Chavez Jr. does step up and fight Martinez because that fight can go either way. Martinez has impressed me lately with his most recent wins more so than his freak ko of williams and demolition of Pavlik. Those wins are highly overrated imo. It's very silly to think Martinez would blow Chavez Jr. out the water. Chavez Jr. has power and speed you must respect, size height and weight advantage, a great chin and a great heart like his dad. That's dangerous
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 16 2011, 12:46 PM) *
People are still hating on Chavez Jr. This kid comes to fight and he has showed a lot of discipline and improvement in his last few fights. I was surprised to see him fight tall and box on the outside vs Manfredo. Normally he never takes a step backwards and works you on the inside. Great body puncher like his pops. He's doesn't have ko power but he's got good power and killer instinct. I hope Chavez Jr. does step up and fight Martinez because that fight can go either way. Martinez has impressed me lately with his most recent wins more so than his freak ko of williams and demolition of Pavlik. Those wins are highly overrated imo. It's very silly to think Martinez would blow Chavez Jr. out the water. Chavez Jr. has power and speed you must respect, size height and weight advantage, a great chin and a great heart like his dad. That's dangerous

Thank you! Im not a big Chavez fan by any measure, but damn. Martinez performs great and is a monster in his own right. Seriously, his performances have been pretty good, but his opponent's experience has been somewhat limited. Paul Williams is just a sucker for a left hand anyhow. I wont go off and start talking down on Sergio's victories, but he's been in there with "mandatories" who have decent records, but their level of opposition is not in the level of Sergio.

Chavez Jr. still has work to do, but folks are making it seem like he is just gonna go in there and lay down for Sergio , or come in head first and swinging for the fences. Fuck it, Im almost in this wild state of mind that I want to bet on Chavez, just because. I mean, Sergio moves more than any of Chavez's recent opponents have, and he has pretty good pop in his punches, but to say that he will decapitiate Chavez, is putting waaaay to much mustard on it.
Seek
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 02:02 PM) *
Thank you! Im not a big Chavez fan by any measure, but damn. Martinez performs great and is a monster in his own right. Seriously, his performances have been pretty good, but his opponent's experience has been somewhat limited. Paul Williams is just a sucker for a left hand anyhow. I wont go off and start talking down on Sergio's victories, but he's been in there with "mandatories" who have decent records, but their level of opposition is not in the level of Sergio.

Chavez Jr. still has work to do, but folks are making it seem like he is just gonna go in there and lay down for Sergio , or come in head first and swinging for the fences. Fuck it, Im almost in this wild state of mind that I want to bet on Chavez, just because. I mean, Sergio moves more than any of Chavez's recent opponents have, and he has pretty good pop in his punches, but to say that he will decapitiate Chavez, is putting waaaay to much mustard on it.


I wouldn't blame you if you bet on Chavez Jr. It's that close of a fight. Toss up for me.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 11:31 AM) *
He actually rehydrates to 165 (according to his last fight). I dont believe Sergio is a big MW, I think he primarily moved up because he couldn't get fights that he wanted at 54 (if there was even any competition at the time), nobody wanted to fight him at 54, or the first two reasons + the fact that he could grab the MW title and make more money. The Pavlik fight was great, but Pavlik was done at MW, or the brewskies did a number on him laugh.gif


laugh.gif

Let's not rule this out!


Let's not pretend like Chavez is afraid of Sergio, this is all of Arum's work. I dont believe any fighter is afraid to fight another fighter. If thats the case, why fight? Arum will keep Chavez away from opponents who will likely give him too much trouble, or defeat him. If Chavez came in at 200 pounds, he NOR Martinez would be effective in that fight. Last time I checked, effective pressure/stalking was a skill...so if Sergio doesn't get off first, then we may see a different fight. Martinez has the movement, but he will have a tree to chop down that night.

Sergio only comes in at 165 (according to his last bout that Im sure you didn't watch) on fight night, vs Chavez's 180...so this wont be as easy as it seems. Again, Im sure that you didn't watch the Chavez/Zbik fight either, this guy couldn't do anything with Chavez because of the weight and his lack of punching power. Let's ALL please stop making it seem as if Sergio is this world-beater who can knock everybody out. He may won his last few fights by KO/TKO, but c'mon.

People put waaaay too much mustard on the Paul Williams KO. Please! Paul Williams is notoriously known for being lazy with keeping his left hand up. Hell, he was getting caught with the same punch in the first fight (which Im sure you didn't watch either). Who cant knock Paul Williams out at this point of his career? Point is, Sergio isn't a big MW (rehydrating 5 lbs over the official weight is evidence) and Chavez should be a damn super middleweight, but he looks good at knocking around smaller middleweights OR middleweights with no power, that should be Jr.

MWs. Martinez has pop in his punches, but I cant really fly off the handle and say that he just destroys Chavez. Of course you would fly off the handle and say such things, but its evident that you haven't even watched these fights, and if you did, then you didn't even know what to look for. Sounds like you enjoy repeating what everyone else says.

This fight WILL NOT sell! At this point, Im convinced that you have the slightest clue how PPVs work. Chad Dawson was LUCKY to headline a PPV, he definitely isn't a PPV draw. Hopkins has sold some PPVs in his career, I wont go as far as saying that he slaps a million buys the face everytime he headlines a PPV, but he's sold a decent amount, given his "hate him or love him" personality and fighting style. Just do yourself a favor and not even speak about whether a PPV will sell or not, had you posted this months ago, you'd been in the quicksand already.


He hardly went for head shots in the Zbik fight...he was doing mostly body work. Chavez knew he could beat this dude, and his dad was getting all of that praise that night (as he should've), so Jr. was doing it Sr. style with body shots. He honestly could've had Zbik outta there a early.


I actually did see those fights. Zbik should of won. That was a crap decision but Chavez was at the Staple Center and no way was he losing against Zbik. I also saw the Martinez fight. It took him awhile to find his rhythem but he found it and KO the guy. I did not say Chavez was afraid of Martinez, what I said was, it would not matter at weight he came in, it is a L on that spotless record. If he loses that L to Sergio, that big pay day against Canelo is over. So yeah he would avoid fighting Sergio. Sergio has far too much skill for Chavez. Against a skilled opponent I do not seeing Chavez winning.

The reason why Hopkins and Dawson will sell is because of what happen during and after the fight. If you want to do a sig bet on this I am all game. You just let me know Ms. Cleo. I know how things work people love a story behind any fight/game. The story is that Hopkins bitched out/ Dawson cheated. What more can you want. People know Dawson's name and they will pay to see it is was a Fluke and no I am will not be buying this PPV.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 04:25 PM) *
I actually did see those fights. Zbik should of won. That was a crap decision but Chavez was at the Staple Center and no way was he losing against Zbik. I also saw the Martinez fight. It took him awhile to find his rhythem but he found it and KO the guy. I did not say Chavez was afraid of Martinez, what I said was, it would not matter at weight he came in, it is a L on that spotless record. If he loses that L to Sergio, that big pay day against Canelo is over. So yeah he would avoid fighting Sergio. Sergio has far too much skill for Chavez. Against a skilled opponent I do not seeing Chavez winning.

The reason why Hopkins and Dawson will sell is because of what happen during and after the fight. If you want to do a sig bet on this I am all game. You just let me know Ms. Cleo. I know how things work people love a story behind any fight/game. The story is that Hopkins bitched out/ Dawson cheated. What more can you want. People know Dawson's name and they will pay to see it is was a Fluke and no I am will not be buying this PPV.

Okay, now Im convinced that you either didn't watch that fight or you didn't know what you were watching. How in the world did Zbik win that fight? Did he win some rounds? Yes. Why? Because Chavez stood there and took his punches and smiled at him...showed no respect for Zbik's punching power (or lack there of). Chavez gave rounds away in that fight.

You're right about the Martinez/Baker fight, finally. Spotless record? How is Chavez's record spotless, when he has a draw? That aint spotless. I doubt if Floyd could walk around claiming to be undefeated, if he had a draw on his record...the world wouldn't allow it. I believe you're just cluelessly riding the Martinez bandwagon, because you've said nothing notable other than what you summed up from everybody else's view of him...you simply say that he has too much skill and he will knock guys out...not enough to convince me that you know whats going on...but who am I? laugh.gif

Again, just leave the PPV talk alone, you're doing yourself no justice by aimlessly continuing. Though you are right about fans liking a story behind a fight, thats pretty much clear and it often sells fights. Im not too sure about this fight being one of them though. The undercards were great in the first fight, but Im not sure if you know that, being the fact that you didn't watch it laugh.gif

I would have to dispute the fact that anybody outside of hardcore fight fans, know who Dawson is. Did Hopkins bitch out? Possibly, I'll give you that. Did Dawson cheat? Cheat!? Really? I would go as far as saying that he fouled Hopkins...thats if we want to go putting the blame on Chad.
checkleft
I can't take chavez seriously. He had a great performance against a credible opponent like zbik and then fights a guy like Manfredo? He doesn't even really fight anymore, he works at a ice skating rink.

I don't think Martinez kills him but he will have trouble winning any rounds with Martinez activity, that's if he doesn't get Tko'd. I would have it late stoppage or Tko, it seems like Martinez hits harder everytime I watch him fight.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 16 2011, 06:14 PM) *
I can't take chavez seriously. He had a great performance against a credible opponent like zbik and then fights a guy like Manfredo? He doesn't even really fight anymore, he works at a ice skating rink.

I don't think Martinez kills him but he will have trouble winning any rounds with Martinez activity, that's if he doesn't get Tko'd. I would have it late stoppage or Tko, it seems like Martinez hits harder everytime I watch him fight.


I think it will come down to conditioning....what condition Chavez comes in will largely have a say in how good/bad he performs
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 04:50 PM) *
Okay, now Im convinced that you either didn't watch that fight or you didn't know what you were watching. How in the world did Zbik win that fight? Did he win some rounds? Yes. Why? Because Chavez stood there and took his punches and smiled at him...showed no respect for Zbik's punching power (or lack there of). Chavez gave rounds away in that fight.

You're right about the Martinez/Baker fight, finally. Spotless record? How is Chavez's record spotless, when he has a draw? That aint spotless. I doubt if Floyd could walk around claiming to be undefeated, if he had a draw on his record...the world wouldn't allow it. I believe you're just cluelessly riding the Martinez bandwagon, because you've said nothing notable other than what you summed up from everybody else's view of him...you simply say that he has too much skill and he will knock guys out...not enough to convince me that you know whats going on...but who am I? laugh.gif

Again, just leave the PPV talk alone, you're doing yourself no justice by aimlessly continuing. Though you are right about fans liking a story behind a fight, thats pretty much clear and it often sells fights. Im not too sure about this fight being one of them though. The undercards were great in the first fight, but Im not sure if you know that, being the fact that you didn't watch it laugh.gif

I would have to dispute the fact that anybody outside of hardcore fight fans, know who Dawson is. Did Hopkins bitch out? Possibly, I'll give you that. Did Dawson cheat? Cheat!? Really? I would go as far as saying that he fouled Hopkins...thats if we want to go putting the blame on Chad.


Sergio beats Chavez for the following reason: 1. Sergio has shown that he can adjust in a fight, Chavez seems to be stuck on Plan A, plus he tires towards the end of a fight. 2. Sergio has had tougher opponents, plus Sergio can fight on the inside, he can cut the ring off but most important he is accurate. Now his last fight was a mess but he found himself. His foot work is good and plus he has fairly good defense, that crap when he was hanging his hands low would be all bad against a fast fighter, so he would have to fix that. 3. Sergio is a smart boxer, I do not see that in Chavez.

I did not say Dawson cheated that is how they will sell the fight. Dawson cheater and the rebuttal will be Hopkins went soft and saw a way out. I think Zbik won because he was hitting Chavez at will. Hell Peterson didn't hurt Khan and he won the belt. I think Zbik was a lot more accurate than Jr. but that is my opinion. I did not see the undercard you are absolutely right sue me. A draw isn't a lost so yeah to some that is a flawless record and I am pretty damn sure if May had a draw then he would say "I don't have a L so I am still the man." It is a draw. People still look at Chavez Sr as having a perfect record after that robbery against Whitaker. I am done talking to you are about to mess up my alcohol buzz and that ain't right Shels!
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 07:52 PM) *
Sergio beats Chavez for the following reason: 1. Sergio has shown that he can adjust in a fight, Chavez seems to be stuck on Plan A, plus he tires towards the end of a fight. 2. Sergio has had tougher opponents, plus Sergio can fight on the inside, he can cut the ring off but most important he is accurate. Now his last fight was a mess but he found himself. His foot is good and plus he has fairly good defense. 3. Sergio is a smart boxer, I do not see that in Chavez.

I did not say Dawson cheated that is how they will sell the fight. Dawson cheater and the rebuttle will be Hopkins went soft and saw a way out. I think Zbik won because he was hitting Chavez at will. Hell Peterson didn't hurt Khan and he won the belt. I think Zbik was a lot more accurate than Jr. but that is my opinion. I did not see the undercard you are absolutley right sue me. A draw isn't a lost so yeah to some that is a flawless record and I am pretty damn sure if May had a draw then he would say "I don't have a L so I am still the man." It is a draw. People still look at Chavez Sr as having a perfect record after that robbery against Whitaker. I am done talking to you are about to mess up my alcohol buzz and that ain't right Shels!

Sergio has learned to adjust, but it depends on how long it takes. He had trouble punching through Baker's guard and breaking his defense, but he is such a big puncher rolleyes_anim.gif Whoa.What tougher opponents has Sergio had as of late? I would say Baker (based on his defense, and that right hand of his that was landing w/o much authority though)

Dzinziruk - No
P. Willy 2 - No
Pavlik - No
P. Willy 1 - No

Sergio's conditioning and movement is his gift, thats about it. Im not taking anything away from his victories because they got him where he is today, but I wouldn't consider them all that tough fights. Didn't really know Sergio had an inside game...I didn't get the memo on that one. Zbik was not hitting Chavez at will, Chavez was ALLOWING Zbik to hit him. Zbik only hit Chavez a few times at will, but to no avail.

A freakin' draw is considered everything, but a win. I dont know where you got this mess about a draw not being a loss. Gee, Mr. Mayweather (you know...the guy that serially nuthugg) even considers a draw a loss. That came out of his mouth, since you believe everything he says. He even said to Ortiz and about Pacquiao. He said that there are four ways to beat Ortiz and 5 ways to beat Pac.

A draw means that you went life and death with somebody and to no avail, it ended up being an empty bout. If you are seriously drinking right now, then please stop...we wouldn't want you to totally crap out with these off-the-wall posts. Hell, as a matter of fact, keep sipping, it may just help your logic a bit. Dang, you were almost a good poster laugh.gif
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:18 PM) *
Sergio has learned to adjust, but it depends on how long it takes. He had trouble punching through Baker's guard and breaking his defense, but he is such a big puncher rolleyes_anim.gif Whoa.What tougher opponents has Sergio had as of late? I would say Baker (based on his defense, and that right hand of his that was landing w/o much authority though)

Dzinziruk - No
P. Willy 2 - No
Pavlik - No
P. Willy 1 - No

Sergio's conditioning and movement is his gift, thats about it. Im not taking anything away from his victories because they got him where he is today, but I wouldn't consider them all that tough fights. Didn't really know Sergio had an inside game...I didn't get the memo on that one. Zbik was not hitting Chavez at will, Chavez was ALLOWING Zbik to hit him. Zbik only hit Chavez a few times at will, but to no avail.

A freakin' draw is considered everything, but a win. I dont know where you got this mess about a draw not being a loss. Gee, Mr. Mayweather (you know...the guy that serially nuthugg) even considers a draw a loss. That came out of his mouth, since you believe everything he says. He even said to Ortiz and about Pacquiao. He said that there are four ways to beat Ortiz and 5 ways to beat Pac.

A draw means that you went life and death with somebody and to no avail, it ended up being an empty bout. If you are seriously drinking right now, then please stop...we wouldn't want you to totally crap out with these off-the-wall posts. Hell, as a matter of fact, keep sipping, it may just help your logic a bit. Dang, you were almost a good poster laugh.gif


Sergio can box on the inside. It doesn't happen often but he is not that bad. Those names you just listed are far better than Chavez's 40 plus opponents! A draw is not a loss. If it was a loss it would be just that, a loss. I do not care what Mayweather says, it is my opinion. It is like a tie in football or basketball, soccer, and hockey. It is not an L. I am not a nut hugger! I am a good poster but I will not change my stance because the O Mighty Zatoichi tells me different. I know your ladies are like the Scarecrow from the wizard of oz (if they only had a brain)... I get that, but I just know Dawson and Hopkins will sell and I know that Sergio will own Chavez. I am going to pour another glass of Southern Comfort and pretend that you actually feel where I am coming from. I am a good poster!
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 08:30 PM) *
Sergio can box on the inside. It doesn't happen often but he is not that bad. Those names you just listed are far better than Chavez's 40 plus opponents! A draw is not a loss. If it was a loss it would be just that, a loss. I do not care what Mayweather says, it is my opinion. It is like a tie in football or basketball, soccer, and hockey. It is not an L. I am not a nut hugger! I am a good poster but I will not change my stance because the O Mighty Zatoichi tells me different. I know your ladies are like the Scarecrow from the wizard of oz (if they only had a brain)... I get that, but I just know Dawson and Hopkins will sell and I know that Sergio will own Chavez. I am going to pour another glass of Southern Comfort and pretend that you actually feel where I am coming from. I am a good poster!

You're right, it doesn't happen often because he keeps the fight on the outside. Those names may be better than Chavez's opponents, but Chavez has a name and team that the public nuthuggs, so that can easily be overlooked. Oh you became a good poster??? I hadn't noticed...guess I didn't get the memo, sorry laugh.gif
Cheesey1
I really hope that Chavez Jr. / Arum accept the Martinez fight. If Chavez Jr. wins, then that'll shut people like me up, but until then, IMO, Chavez doesn't deserve to be a champion of anything.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:36 PM) *
You're right, it doesn't happen often because he keeps the fight on the outside. Those names may be better than Chavez's opponents, but Chavez has a name and team that the public nuthuggs, so that can easily be overlooked. Oh you became a good poster??? I hadn't noticed...guess I didn't get the memo, sorry laugh.gif


thumbsdown_anim.gif No Merry Christmas to CShels
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:14 PM) *
thumbsdown_anim.gif No Merry Christmas to CShels

laugh.gif
iKeNjiro
Wow this thread took off

did anyone see the interview with Martinez on the WBC's decision? if not look that up

on my phone so I can not link you guys to it sad.gif
Plah
He will decapitate that mofo!
Cshel86
QUOTE (iKeNjiro @ Dec 17 2011, 05:37 AM) *
Wow this thread took off

did anyone see the interview with Martinez on the WBC's decision? if not look that up

on my phone so I can not link you guys to it sad.gif

I will look it up and check it out. Thanks!

QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 17 2011, 08:43 AM) *
He will decapitate that mofo!

C'mon Plah, give it up man! laugh.gif
Plah
XD Obviously I'm exaggerating but man, I would love to see Chavez head flyin' to the crowd.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 17 2011, 10:45 PM) *
XD Obviously I'm exaggerating but man, I would love to see Chavez head flyin' to the crowd.

...cant argue with that Plah laugh.gif...
streetlion1
I think B-Hop will vacate and move down to 168

Chavez Jr. will finally get his ass whipped against Martinez.
Cshel86
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 17 2011, 11:21 PM) *
I think B-Hop will vacate and move down to 168


Wow, really? I would've never thought about that, being the fact that he had slight trouble making weight for the Pascal rematch. I figured he would've taken the cruiserweight route. I guess this remains to be seen though...
streetlion1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 17 2011, 10:32 PM) *
Wow, really? I would've never thought about that, being the fact that he had slight trouble making weight for the Pascal rematch. I figured he would've taken the cruiserweight route. I guess this remains to be seen though...

I think that because of the reports about him wanting to fight Bute next....there is no money at Cruiser for him...I think he would beat Bute or give anyone at 168 a run for their money...except Ward.
Cshel86
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 18 2011, 01:45 AM) *
I think that because of the reports about him wanting to fight Bute next....there is no money at Cruiser for him...I think he would beat Bute or give anyone at 168 a run for their money...except Ward.

I've been hearing him talk about Bute, but I was under the impression that he wanted Bute to move up to 175, instead of him (B-Hop) moving down to 168. I guess 168 wouldn't be too bad for Hop, but I was questioning that when it "appeared" that he had trouble making weight for the Pascal rematch. His response was that he "didn't do #2" before the weigh-in.

So hey, who knows? I agree, there's absolutely nothing at CW for Hopkins, or anybody for that matter. As far as him fighting Bute, you're right, he would give him trouble...because its a known fact that Hopkins knows the ins and outs of frustrating the hell out of his opponents and ruining their fight game...let alone kill the mood of the fight.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 18 2011, 05:59 PM) *
I've been hearing him talk about Bute, but I was under the impression that he wanted Bute to move up to 175, instead of him (B-Hop) moving down to 168. I guess 168 wouldn't be too bad for Hop, but I was questioning that when it "appeared" that he had trouble making weight for the Pascal rematch. His response was that he "didn't do #2" before the weigh-in.

So hey, who knows? I agree, there's absolutely nothing at CW for Hopkins, or anybody for that matter. As far as him fighting Bute, you're right, he would give him trouble...because its a known fact that Hopkins knows the ins and outs of frustrating the hell out of his opponents and ruining their fight game...let alone kill the mood of the fight.



Yeah, that sounds JUST like Hopkins', "Hey champ (and coincidentally, THE DRAW), come up in weight to beat me, even though you don't NEED me."

Amazing, how it probably will work.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 18 2011, 08:04 PM) *
Yeah, that sounds JUST like Hopkins', "Hey champ (and coincidentally, THE DRAW), come up in weight to beat me, even though you don't NEED me."

Amazing, how it probably will work.

Hell yeah. Hopkins feels that he's in a position to do that, but truthfully, based on his accomplishments (reigning MW champ, oldest champ in boxing), he does have that pull.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 18 2011, 09:55 PM) *
Hell yeah. Hopkins feels that he's in a position to do that, but truthfully, based on his accomplishments (reigning MW champ, oldest champ in boxing), he does have that pull.


I would agree, if it weren't for the ridiculously gigantic elephant in the room: The fact that Bute doesn't need 175, NY OR (and especially) Hopkins to make a VERY good payday. Now, consider BHop's & Chad's "stinker"; can BHop say the same?
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 19 2011, 03:52 PM) *
I would agree, if it weren't for the ridiculously gigantic elephant in the room: The fact that Bute doesn't need 175, NY OR (and especially) Hopkins to make a VERY good payday. Now, consider BHop's & Chad's "stinker"; can BHop say the same?

Yeah true. Im sure this fight will materialize sooner than later though. You have to think about who needs the fight the most between the two (Hopkins and Bute). Bute's resume doesn't look all that great, which consists of an old Joppy, a faded Miranda, Bika, and a "comin' for the check" Glenn Johnson. Im sure that Bute will realize that he needs a HOF'er on his resume sooner or later...if he even cares.

Hopkins on the other hand, only needs Bute for a bigger payday and more recognition (which he has earned more than enough of)...his legacy is set for the most part. Im sure B-Hop will talk his way into this one, just as he's done all of his big fights.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 19 2011, 05:47 PM) *
Yeah true. Im sure this fight will materialize sooner than later though. You have to think about who needs the fight the most between the two (Hopkins and Bute). Bute's resume doesn't look all that great, which consists of an old Joppy, a faded Miranda, Bika, and a "comin' for the check" Glenn Johnson. Im sure that Bute will realize that he needs a HOF'er on his resume sooner or later...if he even cares.

Hopkins on the other hand, only needs Bute for a bigger payday and more recognition (which he has earned more than enough of)...his legacy is set for the most part. Im sure B-Hop will talk his way into this one, just as he's done all of his big fights.


The reason I'd want to see Bute/Hopkins is the hope of seeing Cote on the undercard. Kid has fast hands and is explosive....however, he may not "catch" well.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 19 2011, 05:13 PM) *
The reason I'd want to see Bute/Hopkins is the hope of seeing Cote on the undercard. Kid has fast hands and is explosive....however, he may not "catch" well.

Cote? Are you talking about that Canadian animal that fought on the Bute/Johnson undercard?
daprofessor
dawson/bhop rematch won't happen. bhop never wanted that fight to begin with. if it does...the old man has a built in excuse...his shoulder. dawson will beat him.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 19 2011, 05:27 PM) *
Cote? Are you talking about that Canadian animal that fought on the Bute/Johnson undercard?



That is the Cote I speak of.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 19 2011, 05:55 PM) *
dawson/bhop rematch won't happen. bhop never wanted that fight to begin with. if it does...the old man has a built in excuse...his shoulder. dawson will beat him.

That's a strong possibility...

QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 19 2011, 05:56 PM) *
That is the Cote I speak of.

Dude is a beast! He needs to do better a better job of protecting that chin of his, but his power is ridiculous! Jose Benavidez is my dude! He's sick! He's 6'0 140 lbs and he has a mean left hook
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 19 2011, 07:48 PM) *
That's a strong possibility...


Dude is a beast! He needs to do better a better job of protecting that chin of his, but his power is ridiculous! Jose Benavidez is my dude! He's sick! He's 6'0 140 lbs and he has a mean left hook


i watched benavidez put it on vernon paris in sparring. i was thoroughly impressed. the kid was looking like something special back then, but since he left the wildcard/freddie roach...i'm not so sure. i saw footage of him sparring the new filipino kid...he doesn't look as good as he used to. not so impressive.
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