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Full Version: Andre Berto Vs. Victor Ortiz (Topics Merged)
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Cheesey1
Wow, yet another match that the fans have been asking for. Yeah, yeah boxing isn't what it used to be in America, but as a long time boxing supporter, knowing that we've got stuff like this next year, makes me happy.

So, my people, who's going to win and if you feel confident enough in your prognosticative abilities, how?
BlueMercury
Berto interview



Ortiz interview



OLYMPIC STYLE TESTING

Cheesey1
Great question Cheesey. You always ask such good questions. I think that we're going to see more movement from Berto this time around and while Ortiz is a very good boxer, I'm picking Berto by UD.
Cheesey1
Russell and Lara on the card as well? Very nice.

OSDT, cool.
Cshel86
laugh.gif

Dammit Cheesey! I cant wait for this rematch, and the undercards are very supportive of it! HBO must have dropped the ball with this one, and there's no way in hell that undercard would've been this great on that station. Not sure why it isn't on HBO this time, but this is a good look for Showtime.

Cheesey1
Yup. This one certainly meets the definition of highly anticipated. Great job by all involved.
Cshel86
Sig bet anyone? drag.gif
wolterb
Ha! this fight could go either fuggin way but i'd sigbet that Berto takes the cake this time!
mrchitown
I'm going Berto for this rematch. If he can weather the storm early then he'll be fine. I just have to question Ortiz's mental toughness at this point. I think Berto will win a UD in this fight
HazConvictedFelonMane
Televising the undercard is a good look. Especially since the undercard fighters are stars within their own right. I like Lara and Russell Jr. That kid Russell Jr. has some fast hands boy. It's amazing.
Hotsauce
berto by KO
sduck
Two possible results: Ortiz by decision or Berto by TKO.
Cshel86
Im wondering what weight will both guys rehydrate to...
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 21 2011, 04:04 PM) *
Im wondering what weight will both guys rehydrate to...


165 for ortiz and 160 for berto
streetlion1
Im calling this one a toss up...Both will have their moments but the difference is Berto fights in spurts after the first 5-6 rounds which is why im leaning toward Ortiz by decision...I expect another war but not as exciting as the first.

Going back to the Ortiz-Mayweather fight I just keep wishing that the headbutt/borderline sucker punch ko wouldnt have happened. I thought Ortiz won the 2nd round and was going to win the 4th based on his sheer aggression...at times Floyd look very uncomfortable. I still think we should see Mayweather-Ortiz 2 with Steve Smoger as the ref.
daprofessor
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 28 2011, 11:57 PM) *
Im calling this one a toss up...Both will have their moments but the difference is Berto fights in spurts after the first 5-6 rounds which is why im leaning toward Ortiz by decision...I expect another war but not as exciting as the first.

Going back to the Ortiz-Mayweather fight I just keep wishing that the headbutt/borderline sucker punch ko wouldnt have happened. I thought Ortiz won the 2nd round and was going to win the 4th based on his sheer aggression...at times Floyd look very uncomfortable. I still think we should see Mayweather-Ortiz 2 with Steve Smoger as the ref.


who is the chick in ur sig!? daaaaayum.
mgrover
do you think either of these two can compete at middleweight?
Cshel86
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 28 2011, 11:57 PM) *
Im calling this one a toss up...Both will have their moments but the difference is Berto fights in spurts after the first 5-6 rounds which is why im leaning toward Ortiz by decision...I expect another war but not as exciting as the first.

To be honest, neither of them are worth anything after the midpoint of a fight. Berto usually blows his load after the fight half, and gets stuck in a dog fight (if his opponent has skill), and Ortiz just runs out of shit to do after the first half and just looks at his opponent...especially if he realizes that the other guy can withstand his power.

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2011, 11:15 AM) *
do you think either of these two can compete at middleweight?

Yep...only if they dont mind looking flabby and fighting sluggish laugh.gif
checkleft
Berto started off at middleweight and I think ortiz can be solid at 154.

Berto has not improved, I think ortiz is going to hurt him again but finish him this time.
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 29 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Berto started off at middleweight and I think ortiz can be solid at 154.

Berto has not improved, I think ortiz is going to hurt him again but finish him this time.

Berto was MW in the amateurs...pro is waaaay different...as Im sure he has discovered laugh.gif Ortiz will be solid as 154 (as you stated), and Im sure Berto will be the same. I still see this fight going either way, based off of the results from the first fight.

Ortiz had it in the bag, but Berto almost took it away...so I still see it as a toss-up. It all depends on who follows up the best after they hurt the other...
Seek
Honestly I was impressed with Ortiz vs Mayweather. Even with the added on weight, his punches were fast and crisp. He was using his jab, throwing it very quick and snappy, catching Floyd with straight left hands and landed two huge right hooks. Floyd is the master at rolling with the punches so they didn't look very affective but compared to what types of punches say DLH, Hatton, Marquez, or Mosley landed, (-the two right hands) Ortiz landed some big shots.

If Ortiz can do what he did vs Floyd, he will beat Berto again. Save the jokes about him dropping his guard, you all know what I mean!
kingknockout
like i've stated before, if berto decides to "box" he'll win no problem..

if he tries to go to war? same result.
Cshel86
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 30 2011, 08:50 PM) *
like i've stated before, if berto decides to "box" he'll win no problem..

if he tries to go to war? same result.

+1

He did both in the first fight. Well, he decided to box when he got hurt, thats if you want to call it boxing. As a matter of fact, he didn't box...I forgot he was only looking for one big shot, and he also started using that Mosley jiggly jab to set up that big shot.

So yes, if he boxes, he will be okay. I dont see anybody other than Mayweather and Peterson using solid boxing skills to keep Victor's big ass off of them. If Berto can show some good boxing techniques that he's willing to stick to throughout the fight, then we will see a different fight.

Hell, maybe Ortiz will get frustrated and try to butt him...its not like he wasn't using his head during the first Berto fight. The boxing match is Berto's, but the war belongs to Ortiz. Good post!
Cshel86
I went with Ortiz by TKO in this one. I voted this because Victor just fought FMJ not too long ago, and Im sure he's able to deal with speed and constant movement to a certain degree...a degree that he truly didn't grasp before the first fight. Of course he fought Lamont, but he laid off because he felt he had the fight in the bag already.

Berto was able to get to Ortiz in the first fight, but it may be a bit different this time. Im sure he'll adjust to the mistakes that he made in the first fight. I mean damn, Berto could've pulled off a close one, if only he had boxed, but his pride got the best of him and was looking for that one big shot. They were both lunging and clinching (more so Berto) after the 6th round, and it did get boring and repetitive.

I have Ortiz by TKO this time...he will hurt Berto and stay on him this time.
Seek
I think i'm going to for Berto by UD. He can learn a lot from Ortiz fight with Floyd. Berto almost put Ortiz to sleep with that right hand knockdown he scored. Ortiz doesn't seem mentally there right now. He's going to have a lot of emotions coming into this fight, not sure if that will hurt or help him but Berto is in a good state right now, he can box and change a few things and win this fight. I think he'll put Ortiz down again but Victor will get up. I think Berto will keep his cool and be smart and keep boxing.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Jan 4 2012, 01:22 PM) *
Ortiz doesn't seem mentally there right now. He's going to have a lot of emotions coming into this fight

You're right about him not seeming to be mentally there right now, but he has had some time to get his ducks back in a row. Between quitting in a fight and losing in an embarrassing fashion (in which he brought on himself), I would be probably be able to get over that self-inflicting embarrassment-type loss a lot quicker.

He came into the first Berto fight with a lot of emotion (his last shot at redemption, first chance to be a true champion, big future fight opportunities, and people hoping/knowing that he may still have quit in him)...and he fought harder than ever, even though he almost threw the fight when Berto clocked him. It will be the same this time around.
Seek
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 4 2012, 03:41 PM) *
You're right about him not seeming to be mentally there right now, but he has had some time to get his ducks back in a row. Between quitting in a fight and losing in an embarrassing fashion (in which he brought on himself), I would be probably be able to get over that self-inflicting embarrassment-type loss a lot quicker.

He came into the first Berto fight with a lot of emotion (his last shot at redemption, first chance to be a true champion, big future fight opportunities, and people hoping/knowing that he may still have quit in him)...and he fought harder than ever, even though he almost threw the fight when Berto clocked him. It will be the same this time around.


Yeah look at him now, trying to break dudes noses with his head. He's more focused on fighting dirty than the actual fighting. Like I said, lots can be learned from the Floyd fight and I think Berto will use that. Everyone seems to be studying Floyd these days and I think Berto can keep his cool this time and box smart. He's got the speed and power advantage and he's coming in with the right mindset. I was thinking about it last night and i'm pretty sure Berto is gonna take it UD. He has just as much on the line as Ortiz ever did.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Jan 4 2012, 03:01 PM) *
Yeah look at him now, trying to break dudes noses with his head. He's more focused on fighting dirty than the actual fighting. Like I said, lots can be learned from the Floyd fight and I think Berto will use that. Everyone seems to be studying Floyd these days and I think Berto can keep his cool this time and box smart. He's got the speed and power advantage and he's coming in with the right mindset. I was thinking about it last night and i'm pretty sure Berto is gonna take it UD. He has just as much on the line as Ortiz ever did.

Cant really argue with that. I just hope that Berto isn't too careful in there and ends up making it a boring fight, or frustrate Ortiz all the way into to foul mode.
checkleft
Does anyone have the scoop on Victors licensing issues? Any updates?.. is the fight badly in doubt or is this just a speed bump?
MaxPayne
Berto's problems are twofold:

1) Defense: Berto's stance is too square for my liking. His head movement is mediocre at best and that square stance leaves him open for all kinds of shots to the body.

2) Stamina: No comment necessary.

I don't think he really has much of a chance at all. People underrate Victor Ortiz's boxing ability, but he's actually quite a good boxer. Don't let the Mayweather fight fool you, because Floyd is able to make anyone look bad. If you watch Ortiz closely, his movement, footwork and the way he sets up combinations all show solid boxing ability. He also has above average defense and is harder to hit cleanly than you would think.

I think Ortiz will win an easy decision or possibly stop Berto due to his conditioning issues.
Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Jan 4 2012, 05:17 PM) *
1) Defense: Berto's stance is too square for my liking. His head movement is mediocre at best and that square stance leaves him open for all kinds of shots to the body.

Nuff said!
Allmenjoi8
I think this match has trilogy written all over it. I don't know how Ortiz will approach this fight but I do know Berto has to come out aggressive and show Ortiz what he did was a fluke perfomance. If he can hang in the first half of the fight he should break Ortiz down mentally and catch him in the later rounds. I have no idea who wins this fight... It is a clear toss up.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Jan 5 2012, 10:45 PM) *
I think this match has trilogy written all over it. I don't know how Ortiz will approach this fight but I do know Berto has to come out aggressive and show Ortiz what he did was a fluke perfomance. If he can hang in the first half of the fight he should break Ortiz down mentally and catch him in the later rounds. I have no idea who wins this fight... It is a clear toss up.

So you think Berto will win the rematch??? The only way he can discourage Ortiz is if he boxes (which is far from Berto's arsenal when he gets excited) or if he executes a power punch and patiently follows up...lie he should've done in the first fight.

Like I said in the other thread...Berto's jab resembles somebody who is trying to slap somebody with a wet towel! His shitty stance will be his downfall...
Seek
Yeah i'm going with Berto on this one. He is dedicated again, he has the speed and power and most important, that big right hand. I just can't get the image of Berto putting Victor down with it the first time as well as the numerous straight right hands from Floyd. I'm gonna say Berto by UD.
BoxingFan86
A few people wanted to bet me on this fight, but I respectfully declined, 'cause truthfully, I can't call it. It should be an interestin' fight, though.
Cshel86
Berto will be on his back in a casket position, when its said and done...minus the suit and the eulogy!
BoxingEinstein

FOTY candidate once again. Classic first fight, 2nd should be another.
checkleft
Has anyone followed up with the licensing issue. Are there any updates on whether ortiz will be allowed to even fight?
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 8 2012, 12:33 PM) *
Has anyone followed up with the licensing issue. Are there any updates on whether ortiz will be allowed to even fight?

I believe its just horseshit at this point...haven't heard anything else about it, so Im not sure.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 6 2012, 01:02 AM) *
So you think Berto will win the rematch??? The only way he can discourage Ortiz is if he boxes (which is far from Berto's arsenal when he gets excited) or if he executes a power punch and patiently follows up...lie he should've done in the first fight.

Like I said in the other thread...Berto's jab resembles somebody who is trying to slap somebody with a wet towel! His shitty stance will be his downfall...


Shels this is a tough prediction. Ortiz is coming off a loss and a controversial loss at that. He was not mentally ready for Mayweather. Berto of course is no Mayweather. So the question I pose to myself is: Can Ortiz handle the pressure? What pressure? The pressure of coming back from a disgraceful performance to prove to the boxing community that he isn't a head case and that he can fight under any circumstances. If Berto somehow out works Ortiz and i hitting him at will, can Ortiz stand the rain and work through it.

Berto: My main issue with him is, can he capitalize on Ortiz's mental weakness. can he hit him at will and dominate the early and mid rounds to make Ortiz mentally quit? If he can somehow do that then yes I do like Berto. If Berto comes out with a Gatti/Ward mentally then Haiti will be crying. Berto has to fight a smart fight.

To answer your question I honestly do not know. My heart says Berto but my head says Ortiz. We will see...
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Jan 8 2012, 02:16 PM) *
Shels this is a tough prediction. Ortiz is coming off a loss and a controversial loss at that. He was not mentally ready for Mayweather. Berto of course is no Mayweather. So the question I pose to myself is: Can Ortiz handle the pressure? What pressure? The pressure of coming back from a disgraceful performance to prove to the boxing community that he isn't a head case and that he can fight under any circumstances. If Berto somehow out works Ortiz and i hitting him at will, can Ortiz stand the rain and work through it.

Berto: My main issue with him is, can he capitalize on Ortiz's mental weakness. can he hit him at will and dominate the early and mid rounds to make Ortiz mentally quit? If he can somehow do that then yes I do like Berto. If Berto comes out with a Gatti/Ward mentally then Haiti will be crying. Berto has to fight a smart fight.

To answer your question I honestly do not know. My heart says Berto but my head says Ortiz. We will see...

Nothing was controversial about the Mayweather loss, well at this point its not controversial. Ortiz must thank himself for killing the "controversial" edge of the decision, thanks to the nonsense that he's spit out since then. Ortiz always has a point to prove when he gets in the ring, again, he must thank himself for such self-inflicted circumstances.

As far as Berto, he tried to capitalize on Victor's mental weakness the first time around...we all saw how that went. I dont see Berto utilizing the game plan throughout the fight. He will get excited and lose some ring integrity, and pay for it.
Seek
Yeah I think i'm picking Ortiz again. He really does improve with each fight and I honestly think he's a better boxer/can utilize the game-plan better than Berto. He's also bigger and stronger than Berto at 147. The fight could go either way but I just don't see Berto being able to hold up for 12 rounds. I'm not convinced on him and I think Ortiz beats him even more convincingly than the first fight
Cshel86
Im just ready for this one to go down! Im tired of that wack promotional video they made for Showtime laugh.gif
Seek
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 23 2012, 11:41 AM) *
Im just ready for this one to go down! Im tired of that wack promotional video they made for Showtime laugh.gif


I'm going to have a boxing overdose come the end of Febuary. My wife is going to lose it! Lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Jan 23 2012, 10:55 AM) *
I'm going to have a boxing overdose come the end of Febuary. My wife is going to lose it! Lol

laugh.gif

Im with ya on that! Im wondering what the next PPV bout will be. Im sure there will be on before May.
Jack 1000
Berto by close decision. He will be better prepared this time. There is a certain mental weakness that I don't think Victor will be able to recover from in a pressure situation. If it is close, Berto could get it. Victor will need rounds going his way to keep that confidence level going. In the event that Berto does much better and is ahead something like 7-2 and Ortiz gets dropped, Victor MAY do a No Mas, late in the fight.

I am making this close decision pick based off of the two-sided war and shaky chins we saw from both in the first fight. It's two-sided? Berto does just a little more to get the win in a good to great scrap. It's one-sided with Ortiz unable to shake the Mayweather and Maidana struggles? Victor quits late.

Jack
Cshel86
Interesting views Jack! In my opinion, between these two, Victor handles getting knocked down waaaay better than Berto. When Ortiz hurt Berto in the first round, it took him about 5 rounds to get his shit back together, and to be honest, he never fully recovered because the 3rd round assault was even worse than the first round.

Though Ortiz is a mental midget, Im still under the impression that he will outlast Berto again. Hell, he just fought a guy with ridiculous movement and defense, so if he picked up anything from that, then this fight should be that much more interesting. The only thing that I dont want, is this fight ending in a decision.
Cshel86
Well guys, yet another good scrap gets postponed due to injury/etc. First it was Guerrero/Maidana, Matthysse/Morales, and now this highly anticipated rematch. Though injuries do occur in training (as they do in other sports), I would like to thank Berto for throwing the whole February schedule off rolleyes_anim.gif

Oh well, more than likely, he was gonna get his ass kicked again anyway dntknw.gif Now we have to see who Ortiz will fight next, or if he is willing to wait on Berto to pop his Scrappy-Doo vitamins and get back on schedule.
Seek
Ortiz was gonna whoop his ass anyway
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Jan 31 2012, 09:45 AM) *
Ortiz was gonna whoop his ass anyway

Highly doubt it Seek! LOL
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