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mgrover
i dont get why people are against this fight, i mean at first it was because they wanted pacman to fight floyd, but thats not happening, so if it was in a neutral location, say mexico on cinco de mayo would you want to see it, because marquez is up for it, he doesnt care about anyone else and no matter what pac says he'll fight whoever arum tells him to especially now floyds out the picture for the time being, and these two always put on a good show marquez proved he can compete in the 147 weight class. also if your here to complain about how pac has lost all the fights so far just fuck off i get enough of that shit on youtube.

so would you want to see a 4rth fight? hell if they made 6 fights id watch it
kingknockout
No, it's time for both parties to move on.
pimpfighterROQ
No there is no point. They know each others style too much by now. It will always end up the same close "robbery" decisions. This has happened too many times in history. There's always a fighter that just has your number.

I want to see Pacquiao fight someone young and fresh for once. Someone undefeated. Timothy Bradley
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 26 2011, 10:44 AM) *
also if your here to complain about how pac has lost all the fights so far just fuck off i get enough of that shit on youtube.

laugh.gif Love it!

I actually wouldn't mind seeing this one again at a catchweight of 142, at the Cowboys Stadium (a true neutral site). Pacquiao will either look shitty again, or he'll come in bitch roided up and swinging for the fences laugh.gif
leonthegee
yawn. wake me up when its over.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Dec 26 2011, 12:35 PM) *
No there is no point. They know each others style too much by now. It will always end up the same close "robbery" decisions. This has happened too many times in history. There's always a fighter that just has your number.

I want to see Pacquiao fight someone young and fresh for once. Someone undefeated. Timothy Bradley


Pacquiao-Marquez will always be this generation's Ali-Norton series of fights, with close, controversial, hard to score rounds each time out. The edge will go to Pacquiao each time, unless it is in Mexico, where the edge will go to Marquez. I disagree about Mexico being a neutral location there. Fans could riot if Pacquiao gets a decision there. Everything else in the above post I agree with 100%. Pacquiao should fight either Tim Bradley, Lamont Peterson, Amir Khan, or a catch-weight fight with Sergio Martinez. Marquez may only get a close decision against Pacquiao in Mexico, and Arum and Pacquiao may not accept such a location. It is time to move on to a new set of opponents, since Pacquiao-Mayweather isn't happening.

Jack
mgrover
i guess i just like watching big fights that live up to the hype.
karmine20
QUOTE (kingknockout @ Dec 26 2011, 01:10 PM) *
No, it's time for both parties to move on.


I'd like to see Pacman fight the winner of berto- ortiz 2. Since pacman already fights mayweathers left overs. Lets see how he does against a young fighter "so called hungry fighter" lol

What you think, who gives pacman the most trouble? Berto or ortiz... they both come forward and its not like they have any head movement. so one would naturaly assume that there actually set for pacman to knock them clean out. Since they prefer to brawl any ways...
mgrover
funny how there left overs the minute mayweather beats them
Seek
I'd rather not see it. I'm sure it will be a good fight but i'd rather see Pacquiao vs Bradley or even someone like Ortiz or Berto. Those are interesting fights. Bradley definitly deserves his shot at a mega-fight and ppv debut.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 01:32 PM) *
Bradley definitly deserves his shot at a mega-fight and ppv debut.

C'mon Seek, please tell me that you were drunk when you posted this rolleyes_anim.gif
Seek
Bradley deserves his shot at Pacquiao just as much as Khan deserved his at Mayweather.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:02 PM) *
Bradley deserves his shot at Pacquiao just as much as Khan deserved his at Mayweather.

I highly doubt that. Bradley brings nothing to the table for Pacquiao...not even a title. Now that Pacquiao is a PPV star, Tim is that much further behind him. Now...if Pac was still in his upcoming days, like the days when he fought David Diaz (for a belt) on PPV, then I would agree that Bradley deserves a shot. Not now though...
Seek
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 28 2011, 03:11 PM) *
I highly doubt that. Bradley brings nothing to the table for Pacquiao...not even a title. Now that Pacquiao is a PPV star, Tim is that much further behind him. Now...if Pac was still in his upcoming days, like the days when he fought David Diaz (for a belt) on PPV, then I would agree that Bradley deserves a shot. Not now though...


Bradley may not have a huge following or a title but he's done the hard work. He beat Witter overseas in his own backyard. He beat Holt, Campbell, the new champion at 140 Lamont Peterson and took Devon Alexander 0 away. That's enough in my book to deserve a mega-fight. If Pacquiao can sell over 600k ppv buys with Clottey. He'll do much more with Bradley.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
Bradley may not have a huge following or a title

That's the main problem...

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
He beat Witter overseas in his own backyard.

How much did Witter have left? If I remember correctly, Alexander won the WBC after defeating him, but again, how much did he have left?

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
He beat Holt

He almost blew that one. Competitive bout though...

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
Campbell

C'mon...uncle Nate? He was a gatekeeper at LW, thats about it. That fight ended with one of Tim's famous skull-crushers...

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
Lamont Peterson

I will give him that one...

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
and took Devon Alexander 0 away.

C'mon, that fight was a snoozer, and neither of them did enough to make a decent assessment of anything. I didn't feel that Bradley got over the hump in that fight and became a better JWW, and Alexander also left with no points in my book.

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
That's enough in my book to deserve a mega-fight. If Pacquiao can sell over 600k ppv buys with Clottey. He'll do much more with Bradley.

Again Seek, c'mon man laugh.gif Clottey fought guys like...

Baldomir (who became the lineal WW champ...undisputed, I believe...though he could only afford one title)
Zab Judah (who only lost 1 fight at 140, and became the undisputed WW champ who fought the top names...though he came up short, often)
Margarito (we all know who he is)
Cotto (credentials, credentials, credentials)
Corrales (credentials)

With all of these tough guys that Clottey fought, he still couldn't help Pacquiao sell that many PPVs. I still wondering how Bradley can raise PPV sales with his oh so great JWW career, and nobody knows who he is dntknw.gif


daprofessor
despite what boxing politics had to say about it....jmm won 2 out of 3 and has already proven he is the superior fighter of the two. no need for a 4th bout.
Seek
You can do the same thing with Victor Ortiz record. TKO to Maidana, Draw vs Peterson, Campbell UD? All he did was beat Berto + he's latino and somehow that's enough for a shot at Mayweather? Bradley brings a lot to the table. He has a great personality, has done the roadwork and has the skills to make a very interesting fight vs Pacquiao.
mgrover
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 07:57 PM) *
You can do the same thing with Victor Ortiz record. TKO to Maidana, Draw vs Peterson, Campbell UD? All he did was beat Berto + he's latino and somehow that's enough for a shot at Mayweather? Bradley brings a lot to the table. He has a great personality, has done the roadwork and has the skills to make a very interesting fight vs Pacquiao.


what personality? hes mayweather all over. his problem is hes not as good
Seek
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 28 2011, 06:15 PM) *
what personality? hes mayweather all over. his problem is hes not as good


I'm fond of his personality, he's a good humble guy with a great work ethic. He isn't afraid to admit that he's still learning either. I saw a huge improvement of his straight right hand after training with Hearns. Would love to see him in there with Pacquiao.
mgrover
meh i lost respect for him and saw him clinging to that 0 when khan offered him the fight and he bitched out. dont tell me business this or that since khan was the best option out there for him, he was too scared of losing that 0. i wouldnt of cared if he lost that 0 if he recovered he would of still had a presence.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 02:57 PM) *
You can do the same thing with Victor Ortiz record. TKO to Maidana, Draw vs Peterson, Campbell UD? All he did was beat Berto + he's latino and somehow that's enough for a shot at Mayweather? Bradley brings a lot to the table.

You're right about Ortiz...the x-factor is, Ortiz had a promoter who pushed him to be the next ODLH, and that drew attention to him, unlike Bradley. Too bad Tim was with Gary Shaw, and he had a legit argument to an extent when he said that he "wanted to be promoted" and Shaw wasn't doing it. Again, Tim brings nothing to the table. Ortiz did the right thing in the Berto fight, and ended up landing a big fight...has Bradley done that?

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 28 2011, 05:15 PM) *
what personality? hes mayweather all over. his problem is hes not as good

+1

QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 06:27 PM) *
he's a good humble guy with a great work ethic

Humble doesn't rack up PPV numbers...ask "Pretty Boy" Floyd, Andre Ward, and a few of the other "humble" guys out there.

Humble with a big following = high possibility to a road to success

Humble with no fan base = Tim Bradley/Robert Guerrero/Sergio Martinez status

streetlion1
Marquez vs Pacquiao will always result in Marquez getting robbed in my opinion. Pacquiao should fight the winner of Berto-Ortiz...or fight Bradley. Any of the 3 would be a very dangerous fight for Manny.
Cshel86
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 29 2011, 12:07 AM) *
Marquez vs Pacquiao will always result in Marquez getting robbed in my opinion. Pacquiao should fight the winner of Berto-Ortiz...or fight Bradley. Any of the 3 would be a very dangerous fight for Manny.

Ha! Pacquiao fighting the winner of Berto/Ortiz!? I will give him all the credit in the world if he takes that fight, and I'll also ease up off of Arum a bit, if he lets that take place. At the moment, JMM is the "safest dangerous" fight of the 3.
mgrover
see if he fights ortiz, then hes fighting floyds left overs, and if he fights berto well berto got beat by ortiz and ortiz by mayweather plus, bertos backed by al haymon i think which means arum would never ever do it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2011, 10:06 AM) *
see if he fights ortiz, then hes fighting floyds left overs, and if he fights berto well berto got beat by ortiz and ortiz by mayweather plus, bertos backed by al haymon i think which means arum would never ever do it.

+1

Something's gonna have to happen, and Im sure Arum wont gravitate towards the Ortiz/Berto winner...well, it depends on how bad one of them looks in the fight. At this point in Pac's career, Arum wont put him in front anybody that poses a threat unless the opponent is at an extreme disadvantage.

If an Ortiz fight materializes, it will more than likely be at a catchweight of about 144 lbs and we should look into the contract to see how many pounds Ortiz would be allowed to gain after the weigh-in. Seriously, Roach wont allow Pac to fight a guy that young and big, and as far as a Berto fight, he would have to look veeeeery shitty in the Ortiz rematch.

So, another JMM fight will be around the corner for '12, whether its May on November.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 28 2011, 03:11 PM) *
I highly doubt that. Bradley brings nothing to the table for Pacquiao...not even a title. Now that Pacquiao is a PPV star, Tim is that much further behind him. Now...if Pac was still in his upcoming days, like the days when he fought David Diaz (for a belt) on PPV, then I would agree that Bradley deserves a shot. Not now though...


i totally disagree with this...

bradley has been on a pretty good run since his win over junior witter. he's beat some solid opposition along the way.

peterson, abregu and alexander were all undefeated when he beat them. alexander was touted as one of the two best at 140(bradley being the other) when he beat him. that, imo, made him the man at 140. his wins over campbell, holt and casamayor are very respectable as well. khan barely got by maidana....and his win over zab and the european dude don't measure up to what bradley has done. i won't even get into his recent loss to peterson....but at this point i think it is very fair to say that bradley, with/without a title, stands alone at 140 so that should qualify him as a guy in a very short line of possible opponents for pac or mayweather. especially when u consider that guys like clottey, margarito and shane did nothing to deserve their shots at pac. if victor ortiz' beating berto was enough to get him the shot at mayweather....than bradley standing alone at 140 should be enough to get him that same shot.

now whether he can beat pac or mayweather is a different story. i think he beats pac but loses to mayweather, but i could see him giving mayweather a run for his money.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 03:21 PM) *
Bradley may not have a huge following or a title but he's done the hard work. He beat Witter overseas in his own backyard. He beat Holt, Campbell, the new champion at 140 Lamont Peterson and took Devon Alexander 0 away. That's enough in my book to deserve a mega-fight. If Pacquiao can sell over 600k ppv buys with Clottey. He'll do much more with Bradley.


i agree...but posted my last post before i read this. laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 28 2011, 03:39 PM) *
That's the main problem...


How much did Witter have left? If I remember correctly, Alexander won the WBC after defeating him, but again, how much did he have left?


He almost blew that one. Competitive bout though...


C'mon...uncle Nate? He was a gatekeeper at LW, thats about it. That fight ended with one of Tim's famous skull-crushers...


I will give him that one...


C'mon, that fight was a snoozer, and neither of them did enough to make a decent assessment of anything. I didn't feel that Bradley got over the hump in that fight and became a better JWW, and Alexander also left with no points in my book.


Again Seek, c'mon man laugh.gif Clottey fought guys like...

Baldomir (who became the lineal WW champ...undisputed, I believe...though he could only afford one title)
Zab Judah (who only lost 1 fight at 140, and became the undisputed WW champ who fought the top names...though he came up short, often)
Margarito (we all know who he is)
Cotto (credentials, credentials, credentials)
Corrales (credentials)

With all of these tough guys that Clottey fought, he still couldn't help Pacquiao sell that many PPVs. I still wondering how Bradley can raise PPV sales with his oh so great JWW career, and nobody knows who he is dntknw.gif


u make some good points...but the one about not selling ppv's is not one that i agree with. so, because a guy might be unknown to the public...or he has a bad promoter....he shouldn't get a shot? even if he's put in the work? imagine if that mindset was used to avoid a guy like maidana or sergio martinez. neither guy is a big ticket seller....but both are exciting action packed fighters who i love to watch fight. but let's say they weren't...do we just leap frog a guy because he doesn't have a crowd pleasing style? are we supposed to act like very skilled fighters don't exist? i cringe at the thought of how the great ray robinson or pernell whitaker might be treated in todays boxing world. thank god they came when they did...we may have never heard about them ever. the problem now is that ppv has become the measure of success in boxing. it shouldn't be.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 28 2011, 03:57 PM) *
You can do the same thing with Victor Ortiz record. TKO to Maidana, Draw vs Peterson, Campbell UD? All he did was beat Berto + he's latino and somehow that's enough for a shot at Mayweather? Bradley brings a lot to the table. He has a great personality, has done the roadwork and has the skills to make a very interesting fight vs Pacquiao.


totally agree again.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 28 2011, 06:15 PM) *
what personality? hes mayweather all over. his problem is hes not as good


what? really? i don't see that at all. bradley seems to be a pretty humble guy in comparison. he doesn't talk much trash that i can recall.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 28 2011, 08:36 PM) *
meh i lost respect for him and saw him clinging to that 0 when khan offered him the fight and he bitched out. dont tell me business this or that since khan was the best option out there for him, he was too scared of losing that 0. i wouldnt of cared if he lost that 0 if he recovered he would of still had a presence.


this is the thing that everyone seems to be clinging onto with bradley.

it's very simple. he wanted out of his contract with the gary shaw. shaw wasn't getting the job done. he was fighting on small shows and making small money. had he signed to fight with khan...he would have had to extend his contract with shaw. sure, it would have been a short term profit...but in the long run, he would have been right back where he started after that fight. now...with arum, he stands to make much more fighting much bigger opponents than khan. the khan fight is still there...but khan losing to peterson may have killed the appeal. i think khan and his ppl understood the situation and used it to their advantage by calling out a guy they knew would not bite because of his contractual obligation. it ends up being free (misleading) press. also, it seemed that a lot of the "journalists" jumped on that without doing any research and threw bradley under the bus. if and when these two fight, ppl are going to know that bradley was no parts of scared.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 30 2011, 07:23 PM) *
i totally disagree with this...

bradley has been on a pretty good run since his win over junior witter. he's beat some solid opposition along the way.

peterson, abregu and alexander were all undefeated when he beat them. alexander was touted as one of the two best at 140(bradley being the other) when he beat him. that, imo, made him the man at 140. his wins over campbell, holt and casamayor are very respectable as well. khan barely got by maidana....and his win over zab and the european dude don't measure up to what bradley has done. i won't even get into his recent loss to peterson....but at this point i think it is very fair to say that bradley, with/without a title, stands alone at 140 so that should qualify him as a guy in a very short line of possible opponents for pac or mayweather. especially when u consider that guys like clottey, margarito and shane did nothing to deserve their shots at pac. if victor ortiz' beating berto was enough to get him the shot at mayweather....than bradley standing alone at 140 should be enough to get him that same shot.

now whether he can beat pac or mayweather is a different story. i think he beats pac but loses to mayweather, but i could see him giving mayweather a run for his money.

Peterson - yes
Abregu - nope...relatively unknown, though Bradley's performance was decent
Alexander - bad fight, but I guess we can blame that on Devon for not wanting go toe-to-toe, or execute his own game plan for that matter

I agree...Khan hasn't done much (opposition wise), but he definitely has what it takes to land a Mayweather fight. The Peterson fight DID set him back though. Again, Khan has a decent U.S. fan base (hate him or love him, viewers are viewers), he has Roach/Ariza/Pac to lean on as far as star power, and he has a foreign fan base and negotiating chips (UK money split). Does Bradley have a famous team to lean on for popularity? Nope. Fan base? Nope. Negotiating chips? Nope.

Sometimes the bigger draw may have to sacrifice taking a cut from their purse, in order to fight a guy who's relatively unknown. If they are willing to do that, then guys like Bradley will get a shot. Bradley's biggest chance to land a Pac fight, lies in the hands of Arum.

As far as him standing alone at 140, you're right, he stands alone. He stands alone as being one of the "high anticipated" 140 lber with no fan base and a false sense of entitlement when it comes to purse splits laugh.gif Again, as I've recently stated, if he has two goods fights at 140 with either, JMM, Guerrero, Matthysse, Morales, or Garcia, then I will give him the credit that he feels he deserves.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 30 2011, 07:33 PM) *
u make some good points...but the one about not selling ppv's is not one that i agree with. so, because a guy might be unknown to the public...or he has a bad promoter....he shouldn't get a shot? even if he's put in the work? imagine if that mindset was used to avoid a guy like maidana or sergio martinez. neither guy is a big ticket seller....but both are exciting action packed fighters who i love to watch fight. but let's say they weren't...do we just leap frog a guy because he doesn't have a crowd pleasing style? are we supposed to act like very skilled fighters don't exist? i cringe at the thought of how the great ray robinson or pernell whitaker might be treated in todays boxing world. thank god they came when they did...we may have never heard about them ever. the problem now is that ppv has become the measure of success in boxing. it shouldn't be.

laugh.gif You're absolutely right about PPV being the measure of success in the sport...thats about 90% correct. It sucks, but hey, what can we do? I guess the responsibility of being unknown and not getting a shot, for the most part, falls on the promoter, but the ring appeal is always left up to the fighter. If you look at it, you just named two fighters who are mostly avoided in the sport. LOL
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 31 2011, 12:45 AM) *
this is the thing that everyone seems to be clinging onto with bradley.

it's very simple. he wanted out of his contract with the gary shaw. shaw wasn't getting the job done. he was fighting on small shows and making small money. had he signed to fight with khan...he would have had to extend his contract with shaw. sure, it would have been a short term profit...but in the long run, he would have been right back where he started after that fight. now...with arum, he stands to make much more fighting much bigger opponents than khan. the khan fight is still there...but khan losing to peterson may have killed the appeal. i think khan and his ppl understood the situation and used it to their advantage by calling out a guy they knew would not bite because of his contractual obligation. it ends up being free (misleading) press. also, it seemed that a lot of the "journalists" jumped on that without doing any research and threw bradley under the bus. if and when these two fight, ppl are going to know that bradley was no parts of scared.


funny how people have thrown khan under a bus now, he probably deserves it for acting like such a bitch, but i still think he can beat bradley. i can see bradley coming out with uhh i dropped peterson ermmm but khann lost so erm erm id like to thank the blessed god and jesus christ my one savior for this erm erm so am the better fighter...

we all know thats bullshit
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 31 2011, 12:35 AM) *
what? really? i don't see that at all. bradley seems to be a pretty humble guy in comparison. he doesn't talk much trash that i can recall.


post fight there the same lol
Seek
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 31 2011, 10:51 AM) *
post fight there the same lol


they're

sorry couldn't help myself
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 30 2011, 07:35 PM) *
what? really? i don't see that at all. bradley seems to be a pretty humble guy in comparison. he doesn't talk much trash that i can recall.

Bradley does a great Mayweather impression, trust me, he does. Maybe he should be the delusional, diva-acting, prima donna, asshole that most of us believe that he is...then maybe he can sell some tickets laugh.gif

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 31 2011, 09:47 AM) *
funny how people have thrown khan under a bus now, he probably deserves it for acting like such a bitch, but i still think he can beat bradley. i can see bradley coming out with uhh i dropped peterson ermmm but khann lost so erm erm id like to thank the blessed god and jesus christ my one savior for this erm erm so am the better fighter...

we all know thats bullshit

Hahahahaha!!! That sounds like Timmy! I STILL believe he will have a hard time with Khan...that size advantage for Khan is still there.

Bradley:
H: 5'6.5
R: 22.5

Khan:
H: 5'10
R: 24.5

Let's see how this goes...
mgrover
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 31 2011, 03:21 PM) *
they're

sorry couldn't help myself


thank you, my grammar at times is shockingly bad
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