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The Original MrFactor
That is one of the best stories I've read on her in a while. It appears to have fallen under the radar. A boxing star stands up to the WBC and HBO because they are trying to keep Chavez from getting taxed. Chavez Jr hasnt earned it in the ring. Sergio went in and busted Pavlik up thus earning it in the ring like you are supposed to. How many soft touches are they gonna give Chavez Jr? Kinda makes me wonder how his dad racked up 90+ wins against guys we never heard of. Sorry, I'm still sore about the Whitaker fight. Kudos for Sergio martinez for standing up and being a man. Wish Chavez Jr would do the same...
Cshel86
Exactly! I thought I was the only one that was getting tired of watching Sergio get stuck in there with unknown "mandatories", while Chavez gets to parade around the block with his baby nuts and a lineal title that was given to him dntknw.gif

Sheesh! They call Martinez the P4P this and P4P that, but they treat this guy like a journeyman. Its obvious that they are trying to build Chavez up into the next best thing...sorry, but thats soon to fail. You cant get take a spoiled, lazy, cocky, piece of shit, motherfucker, and make him into the king of boxing...or make him another Chavez Sr. no2.gif

Chavez is safely able to say that he's willing to fight anybody, because Im sure he's aware that he wont be running into danger any time soon. Im glad Sergio let his sack drop and told these folks what he's no longer willing to do. Not many do that, in fear of interrupting their paychecks. Again, thanks Sergio for saying "screw this POS diamond belt and these unknown, pitty pat, cocksuckers that you're throwing me in the ring with".

Seek
Chavez Jr. makes it rain.

Martinez doesn't.

The end.
wolterb
I have a new respect for Martinez. The choice he made in doing that and doing it publicly is a champion move - only way the Chavez jr circus (as well as the collection of other young, up'n'coming and protected) is gonna stop being thee promoting strategy is if the big fish call that shit out.

I have no problem with Chavez Jr. honing his skills against less-able competition...just don't give him a belt for god's sakes.
Seek
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 30 2011, 01:27 PM) *
I have a new respect for Martinez. The choice he made in doing that and doing it publicly is a champion move - only way the Chavez jr circus (as well as the collection of other young, up'n'coming and protected) is gonna stop being thee promoting strategy is if the big fish call that shit out.

I have no problem with Chavez Jr. honing his skills against less-able competition...just don't give him a belt for god's sakes.


I agree. Chavez Jr. should have been stripped for not facing Martinez. He's had enough voluntary defenses. He should have acted like a real champion and step up and say 'Give me Martinez, that's the fight I want, so I can prove to the world why i'm world champion!'

It's really a shame right now. The best at 140 at one point Khan and Bradley did not fight. The best at 147, you know who....did not fight. There is no best at 154 because nobody is fighting anybody. And the WBC champion Chavez Jr. won't face his mandatory. This makes boxing look very bad and is obvious why nobody knows who the real champions are anymore. 2012 should be a really big year and hopefully the best will fight the best once and for all.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Dec 30 2011, 12:21 PM) *
Chavez Jr. makes it rain.

Martinez doesn't.

The end.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 30 2011, 12:27 PM) *
I have no problem with Chavez Jr. honing his skills against less-able competition...just don't give him a belt for god's sakes.

+1

None of these guys that he fought as of lately even DESERVED a shot at the MW title to begin with...so that goes to show you that they were put in there for Chavez to run all over. Peter Manfredo, MW champion?! Hahahaha!!! C'mon man, that doesn't even sound right. So yes, these guys are merely stepping stones for JCC Jr.
wolterb
^ for sure for sure.

Chavez jr, alvarez, lucian bute...all these dudes are rackin up wins and securing artificial reps...and that is maddening. I think whats unique in Martinez's case, and what makes his action admirable, is that the protect-young-calfs-at-all-costs marketing strategy is being backed HBO. Once a big mover like hbo starts encouraging this shit, the chances we get to see AUTHENTIC champions goes down the tubes.

idk if anyone caught the showtime brawl between rolando reyes and julio diaz...but it was a good scrap and incredibly satisfying. Diaz was the pretty boy, undefeated...and you could tell he was "supposed" to win. Draw-damn did Reyes give him trouble! He took the fight to him and Diaz couldn't do a damn thing. Made it to the scorecards and...thank god, they gave it to Reyes, the real victor.

hbo should not be over-stocking the undefeated...idk if they are trying to recreate another Floyd or what...but I don't think it is as important to fans as they think that fighters have unblemished records. We watch boxing to see conflict and turmoil on an equal playing field! The unexpected SHOULD happen - thats what makes sports interesting...I guarantee they put Chavez Jr. in the ring with Martinez and the sales would be higher than any other Chavez jr fight...not to mention, if Chavez Jr loses, at least he faced adversary! Who's gonna knock anyone for steppin up to the plate and trying?? he'd get more respect and fans from a loss than he would a win at this point!
Cshel86
+1 Wolterb

I mean really, HBO is taking it waaaay too far. It seems as though HBO is getting uptight and desperate since "The Big Fight" hasn't happened. For God's sake, that isn't the only interesting fight in the sport, but let's blame it on the promoters for these fights not happening. Seems like everyone is afraid of their fighter losing a fight.

Doesn't Chavez and Alvarez have a draw on their records? A loss isn't a bad thing...ask Berto. Hell, I tend to watch him with more respect since the fight. I got tired of watching him fight mandatories and hold the WBC hostage.
daprofessor
the sad part about all of this is that martinez wasted a whole year before he came to this realization. he's not a young guy and has lost most of the momentum he built becoming fighter of the year and scoring ko of the year. the thing about it though...there really was not a big name for him to fight after those impressive victories. a year ago i think most were in agreement that chavez was still a pup no where near ready for the likes of martinez. since that time, jr has become a little more relevant, but i still don't believe he is ready for martinez. that fight is a step backwards in my opinion. martinez should do everything in his power to become the undisputed middleweight champion. continue to let the chavez bout marinate and that will be a blockbuster match a year or two from now. in the mean time, do another tournament at middleweight with pirog, sturm, golovkin and martinez.
checkleft
Martinez made the right move. Now there is real talk on ringtv.com about him fighting ward on showtime...
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!
Two of the best p4p fighters in the world going at it without giving away too much size to each other, I would watch that in a heartbeat and no doubt the winner will go on to bigger pay days.

People get impressed by chavez beating Manfredo? A guy who works at a ice skating rink because he can't make a living from boxing. Chavez is a joke, Martinez would stop him like he did to barker maybe even faster.

Martinez is a great fighter and from what I know a stand up guy, this move just adds to what a class act he is.
checkleft
Martinez made the right move. Now there is real talk on ringtv.com about him fighting ward on showtime...
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!
Two of the best p4p fighters in the world going at it without giving away too much size to each other, I would watch that in a heartbeat and no doubt the winner will go on to bigger pay days.

People get impressed by chavez beating Manfredo? A guy who works at a ice skating rink because he can't make a living from boxing. Chavez is a joke, Martinez would stop him like he did to barker maybe even faster.

Martinez is a great fighter and from what I know a stand up guy, this move just adds to what a class act he is.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 30 2011, 06:21 PM) *
Martinez made the right move. Now there is real talk on ringtv.com about him fighting ward on showtime...
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!
Two of the best p4p fighters in the world going at it without giving away too much size to each other, I would watch that in a heartbeat and no doubt the winner will go on to bigger pay days.

People get impressed by chavez beating Manfredo? A guy who works at a ice skating rink because he can't make a living from boxing. Chavez is a joke, Martinez would stop him like he did to barker maybe even faster.

Martinez is a great fighter and from what I know a stand up guy, this move just adds to what a class act he is.


i've heard sergio has no interest in moving up to 168. if he is going to do that, that is a potential career defining fight that could put him in the hof if he wins. i think it's a fight that would be all wrong for him though. i would watch it too...but i'm sure ward beats him rather easily.

as for chavez....i can't knock the kid. the problem is everyone wants him to live up to his fathers' reputation but those are big shoes to fill. i don't think that is fair and it's not his fault he was born the son of a legend. i think anyone in his place would also be milking that position for all it's worth. i can't criticize his progression. he didn't really have an amateur career and has passed just about every test they put in front of him, with the exception of a few controversial wins. he's 42(?) fights into his career...and if u examine his old mans' record, his was not much different at this point. if i recall correctly, there wasn't a noteworthy fight on seniors record until his 46th fight, so jr may be ahead of schedule. say what u will about the kid...but he is tough...he is getting better....and i don't believe he's an easy fight for anyone at this point.
gbh32001
Great boxers are born,they are made in the ring,they are made with the masses. Sergio is not destined for greatness, the writing is on the wall...
checkleft
Sergio said he would fight at a catch weight and ward didn't seem to have a problem with it. He never said he was going to go up to the full 168
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 31 2011, 03:20 AM) *
Sergio said he would fight at a catch weight and ward didn't seem to have a problem with it. He never said he was going to go up to the full 168



i read that after my post. if/when they agree to that catchweight...i will watch!!!
Watkins73
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 31 2011, 02:20 AM) *
Sergio said he would fight at a catch weight and ward didn't seem to have a problem with it. He never said he was going to go up to the full 168


This reminds me of the fact that sometimes I wish I was around during the golden era of Boxing when everyone fought each other, at least for the most part. Why is it different now? Because of the money! I believe these promoters are trying to build their cash cows and don't want them to lose their value.

Was anyone around during the era when everyone fought each other? What was it like? Was it amazing?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Watkins73 @ Jan 1 2012, 11:04 PM) *
Was anyone around during the era when everyone fought each other? What was it like? Was it amazing?

I remember the earlier part of the decade with the 147, 154, and 160 lb divisions, where everybody fought everybody. Those were the days of ODLH, Mosley, Trinidad, Forrest, Mayorga, Vargas, Hopkins, Taylor, Wright, and so forth. Those were the days no2.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 2 2012, 12:25 AM) *
I remember the earlier part of the decade with the 147, 154, and 160 lb divisions, where everybody fought everybody. Those were the days of ODLH, Mosley, Trinidad, Forrest, Mayorga, Vargas, Hopkins, Taylor, Wright, and so forth. Those were the days no2.gif



Boxing needs to dump promoters. Arum, King etc are the reason we dont get the fights we want to see. I understand that promoters put up the front cash to get the sport moving, but they should be checked by a higher authority. Right now the promoters run the sport. There is no system of checks and balances in boxing. I thought the sanctioning bodies had a say in what goes on, but it turns out that they are in the pockets of the promoters. When the government steps in, it would be a good day for boxing. True ratings can be made and perhaps we'll see one champ for each division. Then we'll actually see some fights based on rankings. Cats like Chavez Jr wont be able to hide behind the promoter and sanctioning body. To be champ, you gotta beat the Champ. They basically took martinez' belt and gave it to Chavez Jr... How does that work again?? So Martinez has to get in line to fight a guy who did not have to fight for a belt they took from him? This is why boxing sucks. It will be sweet when/if Chavez Jr loses to a scrub. If he was a man and a true mexican warrior, he'd man up and fight Martinez.
daprofessor
i'm old enough to remember when leonard, duran, hearns, and hagler all fought each other....when guys like wilfredo gomez cleared out his division and then moved up to face salvador sanchez....when arguello did the same and moved up to fight aaron pryor....those were the days. don king has never been one to protect any of his fighters. if anything, he was famous for jumping ship. he'd be in one corner at the beginning of a fight...and the other at the end. he kept the winners going because he understood the nature of competition and wasn't like arum who strategically avoids competition. even golden boy promotions is not protective of their fighters for the most part. look at any of their fighters...aside from canelo....and they are being matched tough. al haymon isn't reluctant to match his guys tough either. so the complaints should be directed towards top rank for the most part. they are the most guilty of this.
Hops
So Martinez is gonna fight a dehydrated Ward.
Cshel86
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 2 2012, 01:48 AM) *
Boxing needs to dump promoters. Arum, King etc are the reason we dont get the fights we want to see. I understand that promoters put up the front cash to get the sport moving, but they should be checked by a higher authority. Right now the promoters run the sport. There is no system of checks and balances in boxing. I thought the sanctioning bodies had a say in what goes on, but it turns out that they are in the pockets of the promoters. When the government steps in, it would be a good day for boxing. True ratings can be made and perhaps we'll see one champ for each division. Then we'll actually see some fights based on rankings. Cats like Chavez Jr wont be able to hide behind the promoter and sanctioning body. To be champ, you gotta beat the Champ. They basically took martinez' belt and gave it to Chavez Jr... How does that work again?? So Martinez has to get in line to fight a guy who did not have to fight for a belt they took from him? This is why boxing sucks. It will be sweet when/if Chavez Jr loses to a scrub. If he was a man and a true mexican warrior, he'd man up and fight Martinez.

There's nothing about this post that I disagree with! This shit has gotten bad lately...i.e. the Chavez Jr. situation. As you stated, he did absolutely nothing to earn that title, NOTHING. Its almost like they said, okay since Martinez is searching for a bigger fight in the division and doesn't want to fight Zbik at the moment, then let's take the title away, put Chavez Jr. in with the same bum, and make us a champ no2.gif

Checks and balances are waaaay out of the picture, and far from the mind of the dominant promoters. Sanctioning bodies make it "seem" like they're taking a stand, but thats hard to do when a promoter's hand is up their asses...manipulating bouts and giving us bullshit reasons on why important bouts aren't taking place. Some of these overrated/fluffed up champs will have their day and lose to a bum or a relatively unknown machine (guys like Maidana). Im hoping for upsets this year, since these guys are getting famous for knocking off bums.
BoxingEinstein

Mayweather will realize Martinez is the next best option.
Cshel86
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Jan 3 2012, 03:43 PM) *
Mayweather will realize Martinez is the next best option.

Let's hope so...but wait, that would mean that...yeeeeah, good ol' Sergio would probably have to prance his ass right back to HBO to fight Floyd. We ALL know Floyd aint gonna fight on another network to face a guy like Sergio...
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 3 2012, 08:04 PM) *
Let's hope so...but wait, that would mean that...yeeeeah, good ol' Sergio would probably have to prance his ass right back to HBO to fight Floyd. We ALL know Floyd aint gonna fight on another network to face a guy like Sergio...


floyd will go if the money is right. haymon having floyd and berto flank him ringside at the broner and russell fights gave me that impression.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 4 2012, 03:27 PM) *
floyd will go if the money is right. haymon having floyd and berto flank him ringside at the broner and russell fights gave me that impression.

Sorry professor, but I disagree. It's bad enough that Sergio really doesn't bring much to the table for Floyd, so to basically say, "Hey Floyd, if you want me, you have to fight me on Showtime, cause I fuckin' with HBO anymore"...that would be outrageous. Now, if Oscar said those exact words, then we may have seen Floyd budge for the first time, because that fight kicked his career into overdrive and he had much to gain from that bout.

As much as Floyd talks about other fighter jumping from HBO to Showtime (i.e. Pacquiao vs Mosley), and his strict loyalty to HBO, I dont see him jumping ship for Martinez. It's bad enough that Sergio will have to take the smaller split of the money, come down in weight, and sacrifice everything else...so a possible demand like that would be a no-go.
checkleft
Idk Floyd seemed genuinely mad at hbo last time for the Larry merchant thing and I'm starting yo think thy put merchant in there on purpose just to get a reaction out of Floyd. And I do think if the money is right he will move to st. Even if the guys at showtime dislike Floyd I have no doubt they will show him tons of more respect then the hbo commentators.

But you never know, they did snatch berto and ortiz away(if it even happens now).
Seek
I can't imagine Mayweather in there with Martinez. Too much weight and too much risk. It'll never happen imo
Cshel86
QUOTE (Seek @ Jan 4 2012, 04:27 PM) *
I can't imagine Mayweather in there with Martinez. Too much weight and too much risk. It'll never happen imo

Yeah, but who knows...it definitely remains to be seen. Im wondering if Martinez would be effective at 54, being the fact that he's not even a big MW.
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