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mgrover
I mean there's certainly a few obvious ones, Whitaker, Robinson, Jack Johnson, James Toney, Mayweather or Willie Pep. Maybe Ali? I guess the rope-a-dope is a nifty piece of defensive tactic.

Who would you give it to? I'd give it to Willie Pep, I mean the man won a round without throwing a punch, and am sure it was that defence that allowed him to fight for about 40 years I think? and only lose 11 times. Usually I wouldn't take someone's record into account but what they can actually do, the guy fought over 200 fights. An interesting match up would of been him and Duran, would it of been like Duran Leonard I or II? Who knows.

Who would you give it to?
Extant
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 13 2012, 03:26 PM) *
I mean there's certainly a few obvious ones, Whitaker, Robinson, Jack Johnson, James Toney, Mayweather or Willie Pep. Maybe Ali? I guess the rope-a-dope is a nifty piece of defensive tactic.

Who would you give it to? I'd give it to Willie Pep, I mean the man won a round without throwing a punch, and am sure it was that defence that allowed him to fight for about 40 years I think? and only lose 11 times. Usually I wouldn't take someone's record into account but what they can actually do, the guy fought over 200 fights. An interesting match up would of been him and Duran, would it of been like Duran Leonard I or II? Who knows.

Who would you give it to?


Jack Johnson was the first name that popped into my head with the way he used to smother punches in close while walking a fella down or just simply catch punches effortlessly from a distance with his open gloves.
wolterb
I'd say whitaker...
willie pep was clever but whitaker's defense had more substance in my opinion.

i think ali's defense was pretty atrocious...in his earlier years his feet were definitely a force to be reckoned with. but post-nam ali's career was his chin. the rope-a-dope is not good defense to me. he wasn't blocking punches - he was just absorbing them with a straight face. i got to watch the rumble in the jungle in hd and the amount of HEAVY blows landed on ali by foreman is baffling. same can be said for his fights with frazier
mgrover
i guess the rope a dope is more of a psychological tactic than defensive.
Allmenjoi8
I voted for Willie Pep. Simply because he won rounds without throwing a punch. Floyd would be my second of course. Floyd has not won a round without throwing a punch. It is truly remarkable.
wolterb
"i guess the rope a dope is more of a psychological tactic than defensive."

^ yeah i think so

in my mind, the big 3 are whitaker, pep, and mayweather. niccolina loche is pretty amazing too. its hard to say
wolterb
that pep won a round without throwing a punch is a myth if i remember right. there is no evidence for it occurring if it did. i heard that one of the more broadly-read boxing writers made that up...
BoxingEinstein

I say its between Whitaker and Mayweather. The way Whitaker predicted where punchers were coming and the way he dodged them was uncanny. The way he allowed punches within very close punching distance to roll off his shoulder was incredible. He allowed lots of opponents to miss their shots while he stung them with his own. The name of the game is hit and don't get hit and most opponents payed very dearly for their mistakes against Sweet Pea. Whitaker had his hands down in fights and still couldn't be hit which says alot and he is one of the best in the sport.

With Mayweather he's got his dad's defensive technique and took it to the next level and made it look more advanced. He alos has his Uncloe Roger's aggression and pop in his punches like his Uncle when he use to fight. Mayweather has made opponents connect percentage go to an amazing and astounding less than 10%! He has the current lowest opponent connect percentage in the history of the sport itself. He also is one of the only 2 boxers between him Roy Jones Jr. to go a round without getting hit. He is currently to me is the more balanced boxer between him Sweet Pea, Floyd can defend within a punchers distance slightly better than Sweet Pea. I think he is the best counter puncher of his generation and to throw less than your opponent but connect more is simply nothing short than crazy. I'm a huge fan of Sweet Pea and his discipline is great but Mayweather's style is still a mystery to this day.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Jan 13 2012, 08:51 PM) *
I voted for Willie Pep.

And exactly what do you know about Willie Pep? Seriously?
Box in Hand
Toss up between Whitaker and Floyd with my vote going to Floyd. Floyd's defense is still there at 35 but I think Whitaker's started to dwindle at this stage, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Cshel86
Of course I gave it to Floyd, but I had Whitaker behind him, and then Ali (especially as a HW). Neither Floyd or Whitaker have looked shitty in the ring, but as Box said, Whitaker did dwindle a bit towards the end of his career, but still, he looked great defensively (even against Oscar and Tito) at the end of his career. As far as Ali, he's been in trouble in the ring a few times, but again, as a HW, I see him as the best defensive HW.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jan 13 2012, 09:47 PM) *
Toss up between Whitaker and Floyd with my vote going to Floyd. Floyd's defense is still there at 35 but I think Whitaker's started to dwindle at this stage, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Your right, you know your shit bruh. Preach!
mgrover
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 14 2012, 01:56 AM) *
that pep won a round without throwing a punch is a myth if i remember right. there is no evidence for it occurring if it did. i heard that one of the more broadly-read boxing writers made that up...


from what i've read here and there the score cards say he won the round, but who knows, even if its a "myth" he probably still won the round on ring generalmanship or something.
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 13 2012, 09:45 PM) *
And exactly what do you know about Willie Pep? Seriously?


What does it matter to you what I know? Why would you care? Stay in your lane

Shels honestly this song is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQRyuJXFrs

You are doing way too much brah
streetlion1
My favorite defensive fighter is Bernard Hopkins hands down!! Hopkins is #1....Mayweather and James Toney would be #1-A #1-B respectively.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Jan 13 2012, 11:30 PM) *
What does it matter to you what I know? Why would you care? Stay in your lane

Shels honestly this song is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQRyuJXFrs

You are doing way too much brah

Sigh...your presence gives me a raging nose bleed. As far as your link...save it and shove it.
Plah
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 13 2012, 09:45 PM) *
And exactly what do you know about Willie Pep? Seriously?



Hahahahaha, here we go again.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Plah @ Jan 13 2012, 11:55 PM) *
Hahahahaha, here we go again.

Trust me...it never ends no2.gif
logicalThinker
What about the roy jones i know hes not much now but he has to be up there somewhere
checkleft
QUOTE (logicalThinker @ Jan 14 2012, 12:37 AM) *
What about the roy jones i know hes not much now but he has to be up there somewhere


I was just thinking this. Mayweather would still take it in my mind with sweet pea not far behind.

Might just be me but if I remember right naseem was pretty good at avoiding punches too
riddick
Mayweather.
Hopkins more deserves to be in list than JJ and Ali.
mgrover
QUOTE (logicalThinker @ Jan 14 2012, 05:37 AM) *
What about the roy jones i know hes not much now but he has to be up there somewhere


I wouldn't really call him a defensive fighter.
wolterb
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 13 2012, 09:57 PM) *
from what i've read here and there the score cards say he won the round, but who knows, even if its a "myth" he probably still won the round on ring generalmanship or something.


Do you remember what fight it was? (I'm not trying to throw pep under the bus - he was an amazing, tactical boxer. If I'm wrong about the validity of that story I'd accept it. I just wanna know more about it cause that would be remarkable and because I heard otherwise)

wolterb
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jan 13 2012, 09:47 PM) *
Toss up between Whitaker and Floyd with my vote going to Floyd. Floyd's defense is still there at 35 but I think Whitaker's started to dwindle at this stage, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


This is a good point...i think he got beat by trinidad around 35. that being said, he did beat de la hoya (not officially) only a couple years prior.
I think it is a toss-up too. Now i'm starting to lean towards mayweather lol
Allmenjoi8
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 14 2012, 07:00 AM) *
I wouldn't really call him a defensive fighter.


Not anymore. In the 90s when he had dignity he was pretty vicious. Look at the James Tony fight. One of my favorites.
mgrover
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 14 2012, 12:33 PM) *
Do you remember what fight it was? (I'm not trying to throw pep under the bus - he was an amazing, tactical boxer. If I'm wrong about the validity of that story I'd accept it. I just wanna know more about it cause that would be remarkable and because I heard otherwise)


If I remember correctly it was against Jackie Graves, but am not sure.

although after some research it seems it was fiction. I still give it to him though
Cshel86
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 14 2012, 07:33 AM) *
If I'm wrong about the validity of that story I'd accept it.

ok.gif

Now THIS is what a post should include, if one is not 100% his/her statement is valid. I truly commend you on this Wolterb...I wish somebody else on the board would go about using this method, rather than spewing out illogical rat poop. laugh.gif
wolterb
lol keep me out of it buddy ^
mitukczuk
Somebody said Hamed ? Yeah, he was as good in slipping punches as he was in receiving them. Barrera fight, anyone ? Hamed was a gifted clown, but not a defensive fighter.

I have to go with Floyd again on this one. Say what you will. But to me he is like a mix of all these names who added his own arsenal to make an ultimate D !

I cant be completely objective since i dont go quite that far to say SSR is the one who should take it so there you have it.

What I like about Floyd is that he does not mess around in the ring, playing unhittable. Pernell used to do it, afore mentioned Hamed used to do it and that's what shatters the image of great defense to me.

Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, right ? smile.gif
Box in Hand
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 14 2012, 07:43 AM) *
This is a good point...i think he got beat by trinidad around 35. that being said, he did beat de la hoya (not officially) only a couple years prior.
I think it is a toss-up too. Now i'm starting to lean towards mayweather lol



The Trinidad fight and his fight before that where he came back to knock the guy out in the last round are what comes to my mind. I think he was around Floyd's age at that time which is why I can't give it to him.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Jan 13 2012, 09:52 PM) *
Your right, you know your shit bruh. Preach!



Thank you sir.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 13 2012, 09:45 PM) *
And exactly what do you know about Willie Pep? Seriously?


THANK YOU!!!!! That's the conventional "I know boxing by naming a guy that no one has seen, but everyone mentions" talk. Matter of fact, let me youtube him again...
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Jan 14 2012, 06:29 PM) *
THANK YOU!!!!! That's the conventional "I know boxing by naming a guy that no one has seen, but everyone mentions" talk. Matter of fact, let me youtube him again...

Exactly! Its funny how some people are nuthuggers of certain fighters, but still dont know their history laugh.gif But yet, they have the balls to stand up and speak about a fighter who used to fight when television had no color dntknw.gif

I heard this one last night and it sounded like this (Im paraphrasing)...Floyd should've fought Cotto after he beat the snot out of Corrales. Last time I (Cshel) checked, Floyd beat Chico Jan. '01 and Cotto turned pro the month after that. Floyd was 130lbs and about 25 fights in the game, while Cotto was about 140 lbs with 0 fights, but hey, who am I to judge dntknw.gif

I take it that you know who made this comment...
wolterb
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Jan 14 2012, 02:22 PM) *
Somebody said Hamed ? Yeah, he was as good in slipping punches as he was in receiving them. Barrera fight, anyone ? Hamed was a gifted clown, but not a defensive fighter.

I have to go with Floyd again on this one. Say what you will. But to me he is like a mix of all these names who added his own arsenal to make an ultimate D !

I cant be completely objective since i dont go quite that far to say SSR is the one who should take it so there you have it.

What I like about Floyd is that he does not mess around in the ring, playing unhittable. Pernell used to do it, afore mentioned Hamed used to do it and that's what shatters the image of great defense to me.

Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, right ? smile.gif


that is a great point. in fact, as i thought over my first choice of whitaker i realized that his clowning and flashiness played into my decision a bit - he was good at exaggerating his ability.
neophyte7
QUOTE (riddick @ Jan 14 2012, 05:53 AM) *
Mayweather.
Hopkins more deserves to be in list than JJ and Ali.



HOPKINS RANKS IN THE BEST DEFENSIVE FIGHTERS ALL TIME.. I have him third behind Floyd and Whitaker... he is around at 46 because of his great defense...
BrutalBodyShots
Whitaker would have prolonged his stay at the top had he kept his nose clean.

checkleft
I agree Hopkins should probably be in here. His defense is in my opinion is the best kind because it relies more on ring iq not reflexes. Andre ward seems to have his defense down very well, they both slip punches very well and crowd their opponents not allowing them to get off.
Cshel86
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Jan 17 2012, 01:26 PM) *
Whitaker would have prolonged his stay at the top had he kept his nose clean.

laugh.gif

QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 17 2012, 02:35 PM) *
I agree Hopkins should probably be in here. His defense is in my opinion is the best kind because it relies more on ring iq not reflexes.

Great point! For most fighters, when those reflexes start to fade, they become suckers for all kind of punches. It's a sad sight to see. I thought RJJ would never get his clock cleaned because his reflexes were out of this world, but as soon as that chin got cracked...well, we all know how that went...
Seek
It's gotta be Floyd. The way he fights, defense always comes first. Before he does anything else, he makes sure make a move, then to block, slip, or counter his opponents counter. He's 2 or 3 steps ahead always. Like i'm going to throw this, my opponent will throw either a or b, and i'm going here next. It's really facinating. And he is always in this mindset, it's exhausts me watching how exhausted he makes his opponent lol

Pernell i'd say is second. The most slippery fighter I have ever seen but falls under Floyd because Floyd uses it to capitalize on his opponents mistakes. In other words, transition from defense to offense is much more clear in Floyd's style.

Definitely Hopkins next. His fundamentals and ring generalship are great. His reflexes and speed are not as great as Floyd and Sweat Pea and so he relies on the basics, positioning, balance and always safety first. Hard to watch sometimes but great defense.
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