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mitukczuk
Hey,

I've recently revisited one of the most action packed fights I have ever seen - James Toney vs Vassiliy Jirov and with recent topic about Joan Guzman it got me thinking. How high do you see Toney reaching in the Hall of Fame. While being one of the very few naturaly gifted fighters, he possesses great boxing fundamentals, ring IQ, incredible defense and effective attack with a good punch. On the other hand, his record is blemished with some positive PED testing, coming in fights in bad shape (while still giving a good performance though). I have always respected Toney as he is that kind of a dude who can talk the talk but walk the walk as well (His MMA trip for instance).


So, what do you think? Where do you see him and what do you consider his ups and downs ?
mgrover
his motivation seemed like a huge down, because it was due to his natural talent he probably thought nah i dont need to train, but in the ring to me hes a legend, the mains a warrior, the whole ped thing am still not too sure about but am glad hes dropped some weight, funny how so many people call him a fat basturd and still get destroyed by him, but i dont think he could give the klits a good fight, i'd just be a repeat of his last fight in russia.
Franchize
I'm a huge James Toney fan. That being said, I have to say no. Firstly, because he may have cheated the sport. Secondaly, because he cheated his fans, myself included, from seeing him at his best at times because of his weight issues. He is one of the greatest counter punchers of all time and one of the slickest heavyweights I've ever seen but right now, I'd have to respectfully say no.
Cshel86
I thought 2 seconds too long about Toney being a HOFer, and that was very telling...so more than likely, I dont think he'll be inducted. Whether he retires now or later and tries to land a few more decent fights (maybe a Klitz fight), it still remains to be seen. Ya never know though...
toff
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 8 2012, 01:39 PM) *
Hey,

I've recently revisited one of the most action packed fights I have ever seen - James Toney vs Vassiliy Jirov and with recent topic about Joan Guzman it got me thinking. How high do you see Toney reaching in the Hall of Fame. While being one of the very few naturaly gifted fighters, he possesses great boxing fundamentals, ring IQ, incredible defense and effective attack with a good punch. On the other hand, his record is blemished with some positive PED testing, coming in fights in bad shape (while still giving a good performance though). I have always respected Toney as he is that kind of a dude who can talk the talk but walk the walk as well (His MMA trip for instance).


So, what do you think? Where do you see him and what do you consider his ups and downs ?

In case you haven't already check out toney vs iran barkly and toney vs prince charles williams and hold on to your hat.
mitukczuk
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 8 2012, 02:56 PM) *
I thought 2 seconds too long about Toney being a HOFer, and that was very telling...so more than likely, I dont think he'll be inducted. Whether he retires now or later and tries to land a few more decent fights (maybe a Klitz fight), it still remains to be seen. Ya never know though...


Mhm, not sure about him being a HOFer ? Damn that is something I didnt expect. I take it as a done deal. Can you give your thoughts on why he should not be accepted ?
Michigan Assassin
You guys are seriously high if you don't think Toney is going to be enshrined in Canastota.

The only thing that could possibly keep him from being first ballot (which I think he will be) is the positive tests for the banned substances.

If someone like Barry McGuigan is in, then someone with the great wars and mult-title reigns of Toney is a shoo in.
Plah
QUOTE (Michigan Assassin @ Feb 8 2012, 03:52 PM) *
You guys are seriously high if you don't think Toney is going to be enshrined in Canastota.

The only thing that could possibly keep him from being first ballot (which I think he will be) is the positive tests for the banned substances.

If someone like Barry McGuigan is in, then someone with the great wars and mult-title reigns of Toney is a shoo in.


+1
Cshel86
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 8 2012, 02:28 PM) *
Mhm, not sure about him being a HOFer ? Damn that is something I didnt expect. I take it as a done deal. Can you give your thoughts on why he should not be accepted ?

Well I wasn't the only one that said it, but my opinion of why he could possibly not be inducted, more so leans towards his whole persona. Now hands down, its a given that he'll be inducted, but my personal opinion pertains to the way he talks trash, etc. I've seen some great trash talk in my history of watching the sport. Some goes overboard, but hell, it happens.

Toney's trash talk exceeds the term "overboard", and it almost makes me and even some of the guys holding the interviews, cringe at the thought of what may come out of this dude's mouth. Most of it was funny, and some of it, well...Im sure they were a bit ashamed of giving James the floor at times. Hell, just listening/reading some of it makes me shame.

With that said, there were a few out there who got inducted, and it made me go, "wth?", but if it "happens" to pass Toney by, I wouldn't be surprised and this is would be my first guess as to why. As fickle as people are about shit nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised. Just my opinion though...
mitukczuk
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 8 2012, 06:41 PM) *
Well I wasn't the only one that said it, but my opinion of why he could possibly not be inducted, more so leans towards his whole persona. Now hands down, its a given that he'll be inducted, but my personal opinion pertains to the way he talks trash, etc. I've seen some great trash talk in my history of watching the sport. Some goes overboard, but hell, it happens.

Toney's trash talk exceeds the term "overboard", and it almost makes me and even some of the guys holding the interviews, cringe at the thought of what may come out of this dude's mouth. Most of it was funny, and some of it, well...Im sure they were a bit ashamed of giving James the floor at times. Hell, just listening/reading some of it makes me shame.

With that said, there were a few out there who got inducted, and it made me go, "wth?", but if it "happens" to pass Toney by, I wouldn't be surprised and this is would be my first guess as to why. As fickle as people are about shit nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised. Just my opinion though...


Thanks C' . Just wanted to see the reasoning behind your statement. I can only agree. I am not a native speaker and even I sometimes cringe when listening to Toney. But truth be told, way worse people have made it into the HOF and as a boxing fan, one must appreciate what Toney brings to the table when in the ring.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 8 2012, 06:03 PM) *
Thanks C' . Just wanted to see the reasoning behind your statement. I can only agree. I am not a native speaker and even I sometimes cringe when listening to Toney. But truth be told, way worse people have made it into the HOF and as a boxing fan, one must appreciate what Toney brings to the table when in the ring.

No, thank you! This could've gone either way...gladly you had a decent understanding of my post. laugh.gif I thought I got something started there. I definitely agree, there are a few people who probably shouldn't have been inducted (though I cant take away from their accomplishments).

mitukczuk
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 8 2012, 09:08 PM) *
No, thank you! This could've gone either way...gladly you had a decent understanding of my post. laugh.gif I thought I got something started there. I definitely agree, there are a few people who probably shouldn't have been inducted (though I cant take away from their accomplishments).


Yes Sir. Never take away anything from anyone. I am sure the ones who have been inducted deserve it in some way. Whether the general public agrees or disagrees is a different story.
PlayaPartner
If they put Sylvester Stalone in they should put in Toney when he retires.
daprofessor
he'lll get in...it won't be the first try though. he's a throwback fighter with amazing skills. life woud have been much different if he beat roy jones jr.
Thickback
4 Division champion....the right way. Not at catch weights or for vacant belts vs bums. He has 85 fights, which is unheard of now a days. He is a defense wiz and has provided some classic fights and classic prefight trash talk. He's in no doubt.
Run and Gun Game Calls
Toney was floyd mayweather jr before floyd was ever even thought of. To me its the eye test, my eyes say yes, he accomplished alot more than alot of hof'ers. At the same time he took his talent and the sport for granted. Unlike alot i thought gatti deserved to be in because of the character he showed in the ring, and not based so much on his accomplishments. polar opposates, but both are deserving in my opinion
Aware
He is one of the best fighters to ever do it! It would be a travesty of the highest degree if he did not make first ballot.
BrutalBodyShots
I was always a fan of Toney's body punching. He landed brutal body shots against Jirov which made the difference in that fight. I love the one he landed near the end of the 12th which allowed him to put Jirov down. And the way he killed Holyfield to the body and stopped him was badass as well.
jrosales13
Some feel he is no doubt an ATG, other feel he is borderline. But, he is clearly a HOF'er IMO. Now whether he is a first ballot HOF. Depends on who he goes in with. But, a HOF'er no doubt.
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