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BrutalBodyShots
What do you guys think? Every time I hear people talk about the guy it's that he's this beast; a force to be reckoned with and almost everyone seems on the Maidana bandwagon.

Don't get me wrong - I think he's a tough, durable 140 pound fighter that will probably do decent at 147 as well. But is he really all that good? I think it's easy to get behind a guy like Maidana that always comes to fight, always tries to KO his opponent, and basically just always gives it his all. He's always in exciting fights. But, putting that aside the bottom line is you really need to look at who he's beat and assess from there.

I think the big one for me is his fight against Morales. I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought Morales pulled out the win. Regardless, it was a very close fight that could have gone either way. If Maidana was as good as most make him out to be, he should have clearly beat Morales IMO. Morales fighting 10 years past his prime, 3-4 weight classes above his prime against arguably one of the best natural 140 pounders in the world, IN his prime? I mean come on. So does Maidana lose a few points in everyone's mind or just kudos to Morales?

Another thing is Maidana's power. I think it's a bit over rated as well. There's no reason IMO that Maidana shouldn't have KO Corley when he fought him. Sure Corley has proven to be pretty durable over the years, but he was knocked out by 1 punch prior to facing Maidana at the hands of Freddy Hernandez who isn't a huge banger.

I dunno... I like the guy and all but when I think back to his fights he really hasn't accomplished all that much. Sure, the win over Ortiz was nice but it's more of a retrospect win to me. That is, at the time it was a solid win, but it's magnified by the fact that Ortiz' best work (wins) have come SINCE the loss to Maidana.

Your thoughts? Maybe I'm just being over critical - but I've always been a fan of rating fighters based on their ability to beat top opponents, and Maidana in my view really hasn't done that.
Cshel86
Good post! You know me, Im "War Maidana" all day, every day! I have two words to kick this post off...Victor Ortiz! The fact that he gave Maidana everything he had, and still ended up succumbing to his onslaught and quitting on top of that, pretty much put a fucked up image in most fighters' head, whether they choose to admit it or not.

Had Victor beat him that night, especially after one of those knockdowns that he produced, then I doubt that people would be think Maidana was that dangerous. We call him "The Test" for this reason alone, he makes EVERYBODY get in that ring and work. He gave Khan a few stripes, though he almost lost the fight in the 10th. He even made Erik Morales look good while giving him a beating and taking some punches of his own.

Fact is, no matter who steps in the ring with this guy, they can either be the victor and somewhat erase a negative public image of themselves, or they can take a beating and be tarnished for what seems like an eternity. Khan was looked at as having a bad chin, but ended up getting some type of credit for it after beating Maidana. Morales' career was "shot" and he was supposed to die in the ring that night, but he looked good losing (though I felt he edged the victory), and found a second wind in his career.

I don't believe Maidana is a world-beater by any measure, but guys are usually forced to get on their shit before stepping in there against him. No matter how much he is being exposed for his lack of skills, his opponents are usually left with these options...

1. Gut it out and look good winning
2. Look good losing a nasty fight
3. Succumb to an ass-kicking and be prepared to take the back seat for a while

Either way it goes, he challenges guys from the opening bell to end (however it may end)...
mitukczuk
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 16 2012, 03:10 PM) *
Good post! You know me, Im "War Maidana" all day, every day! I have two words to kick this post off...Victor Ortiz! The fact that he gave Maidana everything he had, and still ended up succumbing to his onslaught and quitting on top of that, pretty much put a fucked up image in most fighters' head, whether they choose to admit it or not.

Had Victor beat him that night, especially after one of those knockdowns that he produced, then I doubt that people would be think Maidana was that dangerous. We call him "The Test" for this reason alone, he makes EVERYBODY get in that ring and work. He gave Khan a few stripes, though he almost lost the fight in the 10th. He even made Erik Morales look good while giving him a beating and taking some punches of his own.

Fact is, no matter who steps in the ring with this guy, they can either be the victor and somewhat erase a negative public image of themselves, or they can take a beating and be tarnished for what seems like an eternity. Khan was looked at as having a bad chin, but ended up getting some type of credit for it after beating Maidana. Morales' career was "shot" and he was supposed to die in the ring that night, but he looked good losing (though I felt he edged the victory), and found a second wind in his career.

I don't believe Maidana is a world-beater by any measure, but guys are usually forced to get on their shit before stepping in there against him. No matter how much he is being exposed for his lack of skills, his opponents are usually left with these options...

1. Gut it out and look good winning
2. Look good losing a nasty fight
3. Succumb to an ass-kicking and be prepared to take the back seat for a while

Either way it goes, he challenges guys from the opening bell to end (however it may end)...


Nothing else to be added. C' hit the nail again.
BrutalBodyShots
Agreed with everything you said... so you don't necessarily think he's a top fighter either, just that he's a great test and makes for a great fight regardless of who he fights. Does Ring Magazine even have him in the top 10?


Cshel86
Yep, that's what he is, simply a grueling test for anybody. It looks worse for a guy to lose to Maidana, because let's face it, he's not all that technically sound to begin with. It sucks to see a guy give it their all, just to have that "oh shit, did that just happen moment" (i.e. Khan letting the fight slip away in the 10th, and Victor's 3 knockdowns).

As far as him being ranked, I highly doubt if he's ranked in Ring Magazine. Dont quote me on that, I haven't researched anything. HIS best test to this date would be Lucas Matthysse, which is nearly a carbon copy his, with the exception of technique. Im waiting to see who will commit to body work against Maidana. I've yet to see it thoroughly executed.
mgrover
exciting fighter but generally the reason people fight him cause of his style, they think its easy enough but the pressure usually gets to them when they tire
Hittman25
Like you guys are saying he cant be over rated because you know what he is. Hes a guy thats gonna be in your chest swinging away til you drop or he drops. Ranked unranked hes the peoples champ because he puts on a show everytime he fights. I like his chances against any one.....even maywheather. Quote me on that I dont care, the guy doesnt care what your gonna do in the ring all he cares about is making you feel his power and putting your ass outta there. I dont know how any one can hate on maidana. He gives you the same thing every fight a war and thats what most people watch boxing for. Dont get me wrong i would love for chino to gain some kind of technique or be trained by Nacho like he was gonna be (it would have been over if that happened). BUt the fact is there needs to be more maidana who are willing to risk it all.
BoxingEinstein

If Maidana had Nacho taught him and train him a technique it would've been over for the entire 140 division. The man already has a iron chin, steel-like will power, a unquenchable thirst to KO his opponent, and KO power to boot. Maidana in his last fight showed some movements I've never seen him do in any other fight so maybe he can apply that in his future fights which would make him more dangerous than he already is. Maidana overrated? Just ask Khan, Ortiz, Cayo, Petrov, Morales,and Corley . Win, lose or draw Maidana brings hell to ALL of his opponents.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Feb 16 2012, 04:30 PM) *
Maidana overrated? Just ask Khan, Ortiz, Cayo, Petrov, Morales,and Corley . Win, lose or draw Maidana brings hell to ALL of his opponents.


I don't doubt that, but over rated in the sense of being able to beat top opposition. Like the other guy in this thread a few above that said he likes Maidana's chances against Mayweather. I mean really? That's the kind of shit I'm talking about with respect to Maidana and him being over rated.

daprofessor
we see this all the time. a guy has a questionable performance (morales, corley, khan) then all of a sudden we're discounting or discrediting all that he did before!? make no mistake about it...maidana is not overrated. he is what he is....a gun slinger who can punch like he has bricks in his gloves. sure he's slow and crude, but it works for him. he's not fighting to win decisions...and before the ortiz fight he was 25-1 w/24kos. that does NOT happen by accident. he's fun to watch and he has that equalizer. his 2 losses were great efforts and i've never seen the guy stink out the joint. let's see if he can bring his punch with him to 147. if not...he's not gonna do so well there because his power is pretty much all he has. doesn't mean he won't be entertaining....or that he won't make money. i'll enjoy seeing where the road takes him the same way i enjoy all fighters' journeys.
mgrover
hes in the wrong era of boxing thats for sure, a guy like him would of done better in the 70s and 80s i think
bnoles4life
Maidana is the perennial, "you can win or lose this fight the same way: easily" fighter. If you can box, possess good stamina w/ movement, you beat him pretty easily. However, if ANY 1 of the aforementioned attribute is missing, you can lose that fight REAL easy. I'll say this, dude maximizes his abilities, EVERY fight.

Look at the Khan fight...hit w/ a body shot that literally "took his breath away". Got back up and proceeded to stalk the hell outta Khan. I think he's a pretty good fighter. Is he the best? Not by a long shot, but more dangerous than anyone really wants him to be.

The toughest thing about Maidana is NOT being lured into fighting his fight. This usually ends badly for the guy standing across from him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 16 2012, 07:18 PM) *
hes in the wrong era of boxing thats for sure, a guy like him would of done better in the 70s and 80s i think


he seems to be doing well for himself now. i agree though...he is a throwback fighter.
daprofessor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Feb 16 2012, 07:19 PM) *
Maidana is the perennial, "you can win or lose this fight the same way: easily" fighter. If you can box, possess good stamina w/ movement, you beat him pretty easily. However, if ANY 1 of the aforementioned attribute is missing, you can lose that fight REAL easy. I'll say this, dude maximizes his abilities, EVERY fight.

Look at the Khan fight...hit w/ a body shot that literally "took his breath away". Got back up and proceeded to stalk the hell outta Khan. I think he's a pretty good fighter. Is he the best? Not by a long shot, but more dangerous than anyone really wants him to be.

The toughest thing about Maidana is NOT being lured into fighting his fight. This usually ends badly for the guy standing across from him.


very well said.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 16 2012, 06:09 PM) *
and before the ortiz fight he was 25-1 w/24kos. that does NOT happen by accident.


25-1 is irrelevant if the 25 were meaningless opponents. Lots of young fighters have great records when they are upcoming, in terms of ranking though until you beat quality opposition IMO you don't deserve to rise much. All of Maidana's fights pre-Ortiz do nothing for him rank wise; all they do is give him more experience for bigger fights down the road.

My point in starting this thread wasn't to bash Maidana; I think I made that clear in the initial post. I like the guy and enjoy watching him. It's just comments like the one above for example, someone taking him over Mayweather... or guys picking him to beat whoever (insert a top 3 name) when he hasn't beaten any top guys out there.

Cshel86
Maidana is one of those guys that you can look good against, as far as airing out your arsenal...but shit gets wild when you either run out of shit to do, or it stops working...THEN the fight has just started for him.

As far as his record (pre-Ortiz), I can honestly stand up and say that all of the pros in the sport, have had their share of bums on their record, especially in the beginning of their career. It sucks when they're past 20 fights and still sharing the ring with bums.
Hittman25
Im saying if maywheather fought maidana i would pay to see it I know maywheather most likely would kill him but maidana's punchers chance is the best in the biz. If he is fighting any top level guy i would pay to see.
checkleft
This threads kind of disrespectful. As Kevin durant said "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard". The guy brings everything he has every fight, and that's why him and morales made a hell of a fight. You could say he's overrated but if his opponents do the same better believe they are in for a surprise.
bnoles4life
Here's a good way to tell exactly how overrated a fighter is: all the people calling him overrated haven't shared a ring w/ him and those that have, keep silent.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Feb 17 2012, 08:44 AM) *
Here's a good way to tell exactly how overrated a fighter is: all the people calling him overrated haven't shared a ring w/ him and those that have, keep silent.

There's no better way of putting this...good stuff.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 16 2012, 10:10 PM) *
As far as his record (pre-Ortiz), I can honestly stand up and say that all of the pros in the sport, have had their share of bums on their record, especially in the beginning of their career. It sucks when they're past 20 fights and still sharing the ring with bums.


Yup, look no further than Chavez Jr. just to reference a current guy fresh on the mind. That's no knock against Maidana going 25-1 against soft opposition, I was just rebutting the argument made by someone else that a 25-1 record out of the gate for Maidana or ANYONE is rather moot.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (checkleft @ Feb 17 2012, 12:34 AM) *
This threads kind of disrespectful. As Kevin durant said "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard". The guy brings everything he has every fight, and that's why him and morales made a hell of a fight. You could say he's overrated but if his opponents do the same better believe they are in for a surprise.


No one ever said he DIDN'T bring everything he has every fight or that he wouldn't give anyone a tough fight. It seems my use of the term over rated has ruffled a few too many feathers in this thread... When you hear talks about people taking a guy like Maidana to beat Mayweather though, obviously the guy is over rated to some degree when he's not even beating top 10 fighters.

Cheesey1
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Feb 16 2012, 12:28 PM) *
What do you guys think? Every time I hear people talk about the guy it's that he's this beast; a force to be reckoned with and almost everyone seems on the Maidana bandwagon.

Don't get me wrong - I think he's a tough, durable 140 pound fighter that will probably do decent at 147 as well. But is he really all that good? I think it's easy to get behind a guy like Maidana that always comes to fight, always tries to KO his opponent, and basically just always gives it his all. He's always in exciting fights. But, putting that aside the bottom line is you really need to look at who he's beat and assess from there.

I think the big one for me is his fight against Morales. I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought Morales pulled out the win. Regardless, it was a very close fight that could have gone either way. If Maidana was as good as most make him out to be, he should have clearly beat Morales IMO. Morales fighting 10 years past his prime, 3-4 weight classes above his prime against arguably one of the best natural 140 pounders in the world, IN his prime? I mean come on. So does Maidana lose a few points in everyone's mind or just kudos to Morales?

Another thing is Maidana's power. I think it's a bit over rated as well. There's no reason IMO that Maidana shouldn't have KO Corley when he fought him. Sure Corley has proven to be pretty durable over the years, but he was knocked out by 1 punch prior to facing Maidana at the hands of Freddy Hernandez who isn't a huge banger.

I dunno... I like the guy and all but when I think back to his fights he really hasn't accomplished all that much. Sure, the win over Ortiz was nice but it's more of a retrospect win to me. That is, at the time it was a solid win, but it's magnified by the fact that Ortiz' best work (wins) have come SINCE the loss to Maidana.

Your thoughts? Maybe I'm just being over critical - but I've always been a fan of rating fighters based on their ability to beat top opponents, and Maidana in my view really hasn't done that.

I understand what you're saying and I agree. Taking nothing away from Maidana, but to really simplify things, I think that Matthyse is a better version of him. Either way, Alexander should not take him lightly and had better use all of his skills and show some commitment to his punches, but not leave himself "taking a picture" as Teddy Atlas says.
sduck
I wouldn't go as far as to say overrated. He's a good fighter and that's that.
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