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Full Version: According to Roach, Manny is Running Out of Opponents. Same for Mayweather?
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Cshel86
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11934.html

Is it that Pacquiao is running out of "profitable opponents'? Is the same happening to Mayweather?
Cheesey1
Couldn't care less re. the saint, but I don't think that in any way applies to Floyd. The WW and lt. middleweight divisions have at least 3 big, big money fights for Floyd. Canelo (as long as he beats Sweet n' Low), Khan (if he beats Peterson), Martinez. Forget the embarassment of riches in the WW division as a whole. Even if Khan and Canelo lose, as I said, the WW division has enough talented and popular enough names that will allow him to do the same numbers as he did against Ortiz.
leonthegee
Id say Floyd has more potential opponents than Manny. Floyd can fight anybody at 154 plus Sergio if he decides to move back down. Then theres the WW division. So that means Devin "the dude" Alexander plus the Ortiz/Berto winner.
Cshel86
Great points guys! The only reason I threw Floyd name in this is because, well...it was gonna come up any damn way! laugh.gif No seriously, I brought him up because, yes, without a doubt, he has a few good options left.

Problem is, those guys HAVE to pull off "break out" performances in order for people to even be interested in them fighting him. Floyd is a businessman, and a great promoter (when it comes to his fights), but he does have to have something to work with.

Ortiz for example, had a Fight of the Year performance against an undefeated Berto and became champ...so Floyd worked from there. The other guys that you all mentioned, have to deem themselves worthy of earning a PPV fight, so that somebody at least has a clue who they are.

I was speaking of Alexander in that sense, and Berto has to look nothing less than spectacular against Ortiz and Alexander (if that materializes). Khan on the other hand has the right camp (Ariza, Roach, and Manny), and a nice bit of popularity...but even he has needs to look nothing less than spectacular to clean up that shit that stepped in, in the last Peterson fight.

Canelo is still a bit green (just as Khan is since he stills fights like a fuckin' amateur), but he really needs to stay focused on Mosley. If he happens to get starched by Mosley, then he's already put himself that much further behind.

As for Manny, until he decides to truly step up in competition and fight guys at their natural weight, then his options are limited. He gets a pass for Bradley (I'll come up with a reason why, later on), but after this, HE should step up and say, "I'll fight the winner of Berto/Ortiz".

Both of those guys happened to be promoted and managed by two guys that Bob hates, but this fight would at least make Manny seem as if he's trying to make something happen. Did I leave something out?
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 7 2012, 12:03 PM) *
Great points guys! The only reason I threw Floyd name in this is because, well...it was gonna come up any damn way! laugh.gif No seriously, I brought him up because, yes, without a doubt, he has a few good options left.

Problem is, those guys HAVE to pull off "break out" performances in order for people to even be interested in them fighting him. Floyd is a businessman, and a great promoter (when it comes to his fights), but he does have to have something to work with.

Ortiz for example, had a Fight of the Year performance against an undefeated Berto and became champ...so Floyd worked from there. The other guys that you all mentioned, have to deem themselves worthy of earning a PPV fight, so that somebody at least has a clue who they are.

I was speaking of Alexander in that sense, and Berto has to look nothing less than spectacular against Ortiz and Alexander (if that materializes). Khan on the other hand has the right camp (Ariza, Roach, and Manny), and a nice bit of popularity...but even he has needs to look nothing less than spectacular to clean up that shit that stepped in, in the last Peterson fight.

Canelo is still a bit green (just as Khan is since he stills fights like a fuckin' amateur), but he really needs to stay focused on Mosley. If he happens to get starched by Mosley, then he's already put himself that much further behind.

As for Manny, until he decides to truly step up in competition and fight guys at their natural weight, then his options are limited. He gets a pass for Bradley (I'll come up with a reason why, later on), but after this, HE should step up and say, "I'll fight the winner of Berto/Ortiz".

Both of those guys happened to be promoted and managed by two guys that Bob hates, but this fight would at least make Manny seem as if he's trying to make something happen. Did I leave something out?
True, but all of the guys mentioned in the context of Floyd are getting more well known and are already well known by boxing fans. I'm pretty sure that GBP and Mayweather Promotions already have his next three or four opponents lined up, at least strategically. I'd like to see him retire after that.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Mar 7 2012, 12:16 PM) *
True, but all of the guys mentioned in the context of Floyd are getting more well known and are already well known by boxing fans. I'm pretty sure that GBP and Mayweather Promotions already have his next three or four opponents lined up, at least strategically. I'd like to see him retire after that.

Yeah I agree, they are becoming more and more known, but one of them needs to have that star studded performance, if they want to be next on the list. As boxing fans, we know them waaaaay before a causal fan, and casual fans need to most convincing when it comes to ordering these fights.

checkleft
Lots of good ww and jmw under gbp Floyd can fight at legitimate weights. Can't really say the same for pac
Plah
I see Mayweather vs Canelo in November/December.
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 7 2012, 02:08 PM) *
Lots of good ww and jmw under gbp Floyd can fight at legitimate weights. Can't really say the same for pac

+1

QUOTE (Plah @ Mar 7 2012, 04:51 PM) *
I see Mayweather vs Canelo in November/December.

What about the jail time? Not sure he'll have too much time to train. Better yet, Im not even sure he'll do any time...from the way the first attempted "sentencing" went.
checkleft
And as long as he's piling up numbers he won't have a problem reeling in non gbp or tr fighters like berto or Martinez. I'm sure gbp will still co promote with mayweather as always even if that happens
BigFightFan
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Mar 7 2012, 11:40 AM) *
Id say Floyd has more potential opponents than Manny. Floyd can fight anybody at 154 plus Sergio if he decides to move back down. Then theres the WW division. So that means Devin "the dude" Alexander plus the Ortiz/Berto winner.

The Martinez fight is not going to happen plus I think we give him 2 much praise. Martinez is not a top p4p guy in my opinion
Cshel86
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Mar 7 2012, 09:16 PM) *
Martinez is not a top p4p guy in my opinion

I can agree with you on that. He's done good with what's been put in front of him.
Archimedes
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 7 2012, 08:20 AM) *
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11934.html

Is it that Pacquiao is running out of "profitable opponents'? Is the same happening to Mayweather?


Pacquiao isn't running out of anything, he's the window dressing, the blank faced mannequin staring blindly out a department store window as it were. Bob Arum is running out of profitable fighters to feed Manny, and with Mayweather's shadow looming large it's hard to sell a fight when there's only one fight many boxing fans want to see. The intrigue and drama that's grown around this fight is epic. In some ways the fight itself has been eclipsed by the build up. Normally when a fight gathers this much steam it's eventually released by a fight actually materializing, but when the stakes are this high and Bob Arum is involved, it leaves only one possible result = NO FIGHT!

There are only so many named fighters worth the effort at minimal risk, only so many fighters that make the marquee name look good, and only so many fighters to herd off of the cliff like suicidal lemmings.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Archimedes @ Mar 7 2012, 09:45 PM) *
Pacquiao isn't running out of anything, he's the window dressing, the blank faced mannequin staring blindly out a department store window as it were. Bob Arum is running out of profitable fighters to feed Manny, and with Mayweather's shadow looming large it's hard to sell a fight when there's only one fight many boxing fans want to see. The intrigue and drama that's grown around this fight is epic. In some ways the fight itself has been eclipsed by the build up. Normally when a fight gathers this much steam it's eventually released by a fight actually materializing, but when the stakes are this high and Bob Arum is involved, it leaves only one possible result = NO FIGHT!

There are only so many named fighters worth the effort at minimal risk, only so many fighters that make the marquee name look good, and only so many fighters to herd off of the cliff like suicidal lemmings.

Good stuff. Im almost curious as to know who Arum can find to feed to Manny. I mean there's somebody out there that's willing to drain weight or try to make a silly catchweight.

Archimedes
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 7 2012, 06:54 PM) *
Good stuff. Im almost curious as to know who Arum can find to feed to Manny. I mean there's somebody out there that's willing to drain weight or try to make a silly catchweight.



It gets tricky from here on out I'll admit, if I were Arum I'd focus a PR war on Mayweather when he goes behind bars and count on the blind hatred some feel for Floyd to take over. A segment of Pacquiao's fans have demonstrated time and again that they have no qualms with whom he fights and what condition they’re in. The More Floyd embarrasses himself in the public square the easier it becomes for Arum to sell smoke and mirrors.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Archimedes @ Mar 7 2012, 10:06 PM) *
It gets tricky from here on out I'll admit, if I were Arum I'd focus a PR war on Mayweather when he goes behind bars and count on the blind hatred some feel for Floyd to take over. A segment of Pacquiao's fans have demonstrated time and again that they have no qualms with whom he fights and what condition they’re in. The More Floyd embarrasses himself in the public square the easier it becomes for Arum to sell smoke and mirrors.

Well Arum is great at twisting a story, so I see him having success with such matters. Yes, Floyd does make it easy for the public to poke holes in his logic, while they turn a blind eye to Manny's nonsense.

Im not sure how much buzz is left in another Marquez fight, but I dont see many people that he could match up with. Now, if Martinez is willing to kill himself for a payday, then Manny can always entertain that 150 lb catchweight.
Archimedes
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 7 2012, 07:23 PM) *
Well Arum is great at twisting a story, so I see him having success with such matters. Yes, Floyd does make it easy for the public to poke holes in his logic, while they turn a blind eye to Manny's nonsense.

Im not sure how much buzz is left in another Marquez fight, but I dont see many people that he could match up with. Now, if Martinez is willing to kill himself for a payday, then Manny can always entertain that 150 lb catchweight.



I'd watch Manny fight both fighters if he would just fight Floyd first.
Hotsauce
the floyd/manny fight will never live up to the hype
Jovi
Mayweathers most likely fights i think are, either Pac (because at this point after this year they most likely wont fight), but if not that fight later this year then definitely sergio at 154, i can see him saying cotto was a transition. Also at the end of the mosely fight he said he would move up to fight sergio martinez so dont count martinez out at all, most likely fight later this year after pacquaio. As for next year, i can see him fighting canelo on May 5th then retiring......Seems like it would be a good last 2-3 fights for me........mayweather also said he would fight twice this year, and im glad, i really just want May to beat Pac and shut my cousin up, lol unfortunately he is a pactard sad.gif lol (and by that i mean one who thinks Pac is the greatest fighter ever and is a god).
un01
i dont think Manny is running out of opponents. he can fight Marquez, Rios and maybe even Peterson. Floyd on the other hand is running out of opponents. with Robert "the ghost" Guerrero having been a option for May 5th should of told you that.

most likely floyd will fight canelo next, but after that whos out there? Khan is in rebuilding mode and still has to prove himself at 147.

i dont see the sergio fight happening. hes not that popular casual wise and also ethnic wise with him being argentinian... Floyd also said hes not to big on catchweights and fighters draining themselves.

RyanTical
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Mar 7 2012, 06:16 PM) *
The Martinez fight is not going to happen plus I think we give him 2 much praise. Martinez is not a top p4p guy in my opinion


Martinez is without a doubt in the top ten P4P and considered the legitimate 160lbs champion. Floyd fighting Sergio at 154 and winning would put him OVER Pacquiao in more ways than one. However, that isn't the case-- Floyd fighting Canelo at 154 after Cotto seems like the more logical choice if Pacquiao isn't an option in 2013. Those two fights comfortably outweigh a Pacquiao win over: Bradley, Peterson, Khan or even Marquez.

A solid win over Cotto at 154 says more about Mayweather than any Pacquiao catchweight and should rightfully make him #1 overall. Atleast you can say Cotto was legitimately defeated by a better opponent. Not one who had bricks for gloves or was forced to shave an additional two pounds off in order to "make the fight fair".
Cshel86
QUOTE (Jovi @ Mar 8 2012, 01:31 AM) *
Also at the end of the mosely fight he said he would move up to fight sergio martinez so dont count martinez out at all

Please refresh my memory on this...I dont quite remember him saying that.

QUOTE (un01 @ Mar 8 2012, 04:54 AM) *
i dont think Manny is running out of opponents. he can fight Marquez, Rios and maybe even Peterson. Floyd on the other hand is running out of opponents. with Robert "the ghost" Guerrero having been a option for May 5th should of told you that.

Manny is running out of opponents, personally, not Floyd. After the Marquez fight, names kile Kermit Cintron and Paulie Malignaggi were brought up...and that was 3 years ago. Since then, he's fought Mosley and a young Ortiz made a big enough impact to land a fight. With that said, Floyd can make almost any fighter a somewhat worthy opponent.

Manny has make fighters come down in weight to make it a "fair fight" (as somebody else mentioned). Then he makes sure that they dont gain an x amount of weight before fight night, which is completely retarded. Well, after saying that, I retract my statement about him running out of opponents.

He can make any idiot that's itching for a payday, sacrifice their health. I hate to say this, but Sergio may find himself doing such a heinous act. Then Pacquiao will beat him 6 deeper in the dirt than he already was in before stepping into the ring. So...neither guys are running out of opponents. laugh.gif

QUOTE (RyanTical @ Mar 8 2012, 05:38 AM) *
Martinez is without a doubt in the top ten P4P and considered the legitimate 160lbs champion. Floyd fighting Sergio at 154 and winning would put him OVER Pacquiao in more ways than one. However, that isn't the case-- Floyd fighting Canelo at 154 after Cotto seems like the more logical choice if Pacquiao isn't an option in 2013. Those two fights comfortably outweigh a Pacquiao win over: Bradley, Peterson, Khan or even Marquez.

A solid win over Cotto at 154 says more about Mayweather than any Pacquiao catchweight and should rightfully make him #1 overall. Atleast you can say Cotto was legitimately defeated by a better opponent. Not one who had bricks for gloves or was forced to shave an additional two pounds off in order to "make the fight fair".

Why is everybody thinking that this Mayweather/Martinez fight is happening??? Martinez is a MIDDLEWEIGHT, and a legitimate one at that. Floyd barely tips 154 on the scales, and Im sure he wont for his upcoming fight.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that Canelo will be his next opponent, because Canelo has to get past Mosley. How would it look if Mosley Ko'd Canelo (which is likely), and Mayweather's already dismantled Mosley? Would he still be deserving of a huge PPV fight, especially since he's been fighting dead bodies all the way up until now?
Allmenjoi8
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/76598...file-case-champ

Can we say motivation for the "fight of the decade?" maybe that 40 million split wasn't such a bad idea....
un01
QUOTE (RyanTical @ Mar 8 2012, 05:38 AM) *
Floyd fighting Sergio at 154 and winning would put him OVER Pacquiao in more ways than one.


i dont think it would really change public opinion. a win over Sergio would have the same astriek that Pacquiao has winning against De la hoya. plus Sergio isnt well known enough to propel Floyd to new heights
E.C.LEGEND
Paq might be going to jail(up to 2 years) for taxes according to espn. lol wtf.gif
Cshel86
For the love of God E.C....PLEASE change your sig! Please! It looks mighty g_y, and if I didn't know any better, I would've thought you lost a sig bet. laugh.gif
Hotsauce
QUOTE (un01 @ Mar 8 2012, 05:54 AM) *
i dont think Manny is running out of opponents. he can fight Marquez, Rios and maybe even Peterson. Floyd on the other hand is running out of opponents. with Robert "the ghost" Guerrero having been a option for May 5th should of told you that.

most likely floyd will fight canelo next, but after that whos out there? Khan is in rebuilding mode and still has to prove himself at 147.

i dont see the sergio fight happening. hes not that popular casual wise and also ethnic wise with him being argentinian... Floyd also said hes not to big on catchweights and fighters draining themselves.


naw floyd ain't running out of opponents.

floyd only fights once a year, while khan is fighting at least 3 times a year.

khan will have his chance to rebuild himself to be a worthy opponent for floyd.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Plah @ Mar 7 2012, 04:51 PM) *
I see Mayweather vs Canelo in November/December.

If that happens, even as green as Canelo is, that's a mega fight from a general interest level and revenue perspective.
E.C.LEGEND
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 8 2012, 12:23 PM) *
For the love of God E.C....PLEASE change your sig! Please! It looks mighty g_y, and if I didn't know any better, I would've thought you lost a sig bet. laugh.gif

lol its miesha tate.lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (E.C.LEGEND @ Mar 8 2012, 09:33 PM) *
lol its miesha tate.lol

laugh.gif

I stand corrected...I didn't even peep the bra...silly me. It just looked like two dudes were on top of each other rolling around slowly and gingerly. laugh.gif

My bad...
checkleft
Saying sergio Martinez isn't a top guy is ignorant. He's the best middleweight in the world. The real fans and experts would know a win over Martinez is a huge deal especially at a good weight like 154.

Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 8 2012, 10:03 PM) *
Saying sergio Martinez isn't a top guy is ignorant. He's the best middleweight in the world. The real fans and experts would know a win over Martinez is a huge deal especially at a good weight like 154.

Seriously, Martinez is a MW, so the 154 talk is getting older as time passes. I know that he went up to 160 for money and better fights, but at this point, going back down to 154 will make him look less than the p4p fighter that he's made out to be.

He beat Pavlik (good stuff), but what else has he done at 160? Okay he KO'd P. Willy, but the Dzinziruk and Baker fight?! I dont know about those. He pretty much ran through Dzinziruk (with the exception of a couple of hard rounds), and Barker made him look less than "pound 4 pound-ish" in a few rounds with his defense along with those landed straight right hands.

He's a good fighter, but it's hard to say that he's this big p4p fighter. I can say the same for Donaire, in this sense.
Cheesey1
Martinez fighting at lt. middleweight is still credible. How good he is, or isn't, is obviously debatable, but I think that him vs. Mayweather at 154 would still be a top draw.
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 9 2012, 03:13 AM) *
Seriously, Martinez is a MW, so the 154 talk is getting older as time passes. I know that he went up to 160 for money and better fights, but at this point, going back down to 154 will make him look less than the p4p fighter that he's made out to be.

He beat Pavlik (good stuff), but what else has he done at 160? Okay he KO'd P. Willy, but the Dzinziruk and Baker fight?! I dont know about those. He pretty much ran through Dzinziruk (with the exception of a couple of hard rounds), and Barker made him look less than "pound 4 pound-ish" in a few rounds with his defense along with those landed straight right hands.

He's a good fighter, but it's hard to say that he's this big p4p fighter. I can say the same for Donaire, in this sense.


sure, but whos got the tools to beat him at 154-160. Aside from a possible Mayweather fight at 154.

now ive said that watch macklin beat him and badly too lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 8 2012, 10:40 PM) *
sure, but whos got the tools to beat him at 154-160. Aside from a possible Mayweather fight at 154.

now ive said that watch macklin beat him and badly too lol

The FIRST name that came to my mind was Macklin, so you definitely have a point. Macklin's only claim to fame was getting robbed in the Sturm fight, but I believe that he goes a step or two further than Barker, and upsets Martinez.

The other name in my head was Pirog (though he may get outworked), and possibly Chavez Jr (possibly being the operative word), but possibly Chavez Jr can be a pile of shit that Sergio steps in and has hard time getting it off his shoe. He could make Chavez work, but I dont see it being a breeze because of the weight difference.
checkleft
I'm sorry but pirog has a good style and obviously has skill but he clearly ducked Lara, a Jr middleweight, and has fought absolutely nobody outside of a unproven prospect who was getting set up to win a belt he didn't deserve.

Chavez won't fight sergio hes suppose to move up in weight soon and he will more than likely fight marg before he does.

And I don't see how the barker fight was bad for him, he fought a live opponent through adversity(as in the Pavlic fight) and knocked him out?
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 8 2012, 01:23 PM) *
For the love of God E.C....PLEASE change your sig! Please! It looks mighty g_y, and if I didn't know any better, I would've thought you lost a sig bet. laugh.gif


You do realize those are chicks in there, right?
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Mar 9 2012, 05:47 PM) *
You do realize those are chicks in there, right?

Yeah, E.C. checked me on page 3 of the thread laugh.gif I didn't even peep the bra in the sig, until he told me. The sig was REAL slow for some reason, but now that I see whats going on, it all makes sense.
BoxingEinstein

Fuck Pacquiao it's about time Floyd laid out his idea in fighting Sergio after his fight with Mosley. After Cotto, Mayweather should fight Segio in September. Martinez is the king at Middleweight/Junior Middleweight.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Mar 9 2012, 08:07 PM) *
Fuck Pacquiao it's about time Floyd laid out his idea in fighting Sergio after his fight with Mosley. After Cotto, Mayweather should fight Segio in September. Martinez is the king at Middleweight/Junior Middleweight.


isn't floyd going to jail?
Cshel86
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Mar 9 2012, 07:07 PM) *
Fuck Pacquiao it's about time Floyd laid out his idea in fighting Sergio after his fight with Mosley.

Did he recently say this? Im asking because I dont remember him saying it in the past, and I haven't watched all of the recent presser videos.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Mar 9 2012, 08:07 PM) *
Fuck Pacquiao it's about time Floyd laid out his idea in fighting Sergio after his fight with Mosley. After Cotto, Mayweather should fight Segio in September. Martinez is the king at Middleweight/Junior Middleweight.


The only thing Floyd is fighting in Sept, is boredom. He's likely still in the poke or recently freed.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Mar 9 2012, 07:57 PM) *
The only thing Floyd is fighting in Sept, is boredom. He's likely still in the poke or recently freed.


What are you talking about? The man will get an early release for good behavior and will be out by early June which gives enough time for him to be ready for a September fight.
mrchitown
I think Manny is running out of opponents, and I believe this because the public perception of him in his last 3 fights has definitely made him feel the pressure. Especially since he's looked less then stellar in those bouts. But I can see where Roach is coming from about Floyd as well. While it's true that Floyd can sell with anyone, those "anyone" fighters have to be in somewhat of a compelling fight to make it worth the while, i.e. as Ortiz did in his FOTY worthy performance against Berto. When you couple that with demand for Manny and Floyd to face each other, it's just a matter of time before fans begin to shun the both of them. I personally believe now more then ever that the fight will never happen and I've stopped caring a long time ago. Manny talks as if he's got 1 foot out the door already, and I'd like to see Floyd fight 2-3 more times then call it a career. I hope he retires mid or the end of 2013.
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