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Full Version: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Sergio Martinez or Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao [Poll & Added Question]]
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Gambit808
1. Also, Which of the 2 has a better chance of beating Floyd?
2. Which fight do you think happens 1st?
3. Do you think jumping up and down in weight to get these fights at this stage in Floyd's career spell doom for him the way it did for Roy Jones?
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Mar 19 2012, 01:51 PM) *
1. Also, Which of the 2 has a better chance of beating Floyd?
2. Which fight do you think happens 1st?
3. Do you think jumping up and down in weight to get these fights at this stage in Floyd's career spell doom for him the way it did for Roy Jones?

1. Martinez has the better chance of beatin' Floyd, but only at 154. Anything below 154 nullifies/eliminates the "threat" that Martinez carries. Personally, I think it'd be suicide. As far as Pacquiao goes, sure he has a chance of beatin' Floyd, but only a puncher's chance. That's it!

2.Definitely the Martinez fight.

3.Nah, not at all. Floyd has preserved himself pretty well throughout the course of his career, which comes in handy when you're jumpin' weight classes. In this case, self-preservation is his biggest asset.
checkleft
1. Martinez has the better chance to win. He shows the ability to adjust while manny doesn't. And I actually think he has the better corner also.

2. Just because of the fact that arum is on mannys side I see the Martinez fight happening first.

3. I don't think so. Roy was jumping a lot of weight classes. But to jump to 154 right after being on a prison diet could spell disaster. But I think his body is well built for 147 and small 154 pounders. The bigger worry would probably be, how does Martinez react to fighting at 150 or 154.
leonthegee
I see Serg v Floyd happening first and I also give Serg the better chance of winning. But I still see Serg having only a 20% chance of really winning the fight. I think Serg's best quality is his movement. I dont think Serg has the creative arsenal to beat a complete fighter like Floyd. Serg is basically jab straight left hand. I dont see any right or left hooks or any body punching what so ever.

Take all of the foot stomping out of the fight and I didnt see Macklin all that hurt. The knockout came more from fatigue and I dont see Floyd fading late in the fight. I know Serg is an undersized MW but at his age how easy can he make 154? And this fights most likely taking place a year from now. His last fight at 154 was 3 years ago and he wasnt really that great then. I give Serg a punchers chance but Floyd protects his chin like Tigers protect their young. I think Floyd beats Serg easily.
Gambit808
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Mar 19 2012, 01:04 PM) *
1. Martinez has the better chance of beatin' Floyd, but only at 154. Anything below 154 eliminates the "threat" that Martinez carries. Personally, I think it'd be suicide. As far as Pacquiao goes, sure he has a chance of beatin' Floyd, but only a puncher's chance. That's it!

2.Definitely the Martinez fight.

3.Nah, not at all. Floyd's has preserved himself pretty well throughout the course of his career, which comes in handy when you're jumpin' weight classes. In this case, self-preservation is his biggest asset.


You have a good point @BoxingFan86, but correct me if i'm wrong by saying that Roy Jones was pretty self preserved throughout his career before the Tarver fight right?
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Mar 19 2012, 02:16 PM) *
You have a good point @BoxingFan86, but correct me if i'm wrong by saying that Roy Jones was pretty self preserved throughout his career before the Tarver fight right?

Nah, not really. Roy was too active.
leonthegee
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Mar 19 2012, 10:16 AM) *
You have a good point @BoxingFan86, but correct me if i'm wrong by saying that Roy Jones was pretty self preserved throughout his career before the Tarver fight right?


The jump between HW and LHW is 30lbs. But I agree I dont like fighters jumping in and out of weight classes either. Even for Floyd. As a fan of Floyd I would much rather him campagn now at 154 than go jumping back and forth between 154 and 147. Unless it's to fight Manny.
Gambit808
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 19 2012, 01:10 PM) *
1. Martinez has the better chance to win. He shows the ability to adjust while manny doesn't. And I actually think he has the better corner also.

2. Just because of the fact that arum is on mannys side I see the Martinez fight happening first.

3. I don't think so. Roy was jumping a lot of weight classes. But to jump to 154 right after being on a prison diet could spell disaster. But I think his body is well built for 147 and small 154 pounders. The bigger worry would probably be, how does Martinez react to fighting at 150 or 154.

Arum just wants control of that event (Mayweather vs. Pacquiao) in it's entirety. I just don't understand how with that much money to make is not enough to agree on smh.

Great point, I'm wondering what weight class Floyd will fight at after his prison term is over 47 or 54... but knowing his back round I'm sure it'll be what ever makes the most dollars & sense.
Gambit808
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Mar 19 2012, 01:27 PM) *
The jump between HW and LHW is 30lbs. But I agree I dont like fighters jumping in and out of weight classes either. Even for Floyd. As a fan of Floyd I would much rather him campagn now at 154 than go jumping back and forth between 154 and 147. Unless it's to fight Manny.


I know Pacquiao better get his shit together before Floyd decide to stay at 54 and have it play a factor in the next time they negotiate.
CauzinRuckus
1. niether can beat floyd but martinez will have a better chance . simply becuase pac is 1 dimensional and can't fight of the back foot. Martinez wants u to attack him cuz he can fight backing up. but his style with the hands down wouldn't fly, if macklin was able to get box him and make him adjust floyd would easily beat him. i was impressed wit martinez's will to win and steppin up after the knockdown .

2.being that floyd will beat cotto and become a title-holder in the 154 class martinez will have the right to push for this fight since he fights so close to that wait. Plus 80/20 is wat martinez will offer. Dat smells like $$ so he will have floyds attention.

3.i've seen people say i wont matter but it will , roy jones was preserved very well, wen he decided to jump weights that was his doom. he fought often but he wasn't gettin hit. Floyd is the same way we haven't seen him get hit with hard shots alot so we dont kno if his chin is glass or a diamond. his conditioning will help him shake off punches like mosely hit him with, but he was hurt no ? i think his solid home is 147 but not enough big names at 154 to stay there.
CauzinRuckus
[quote name='Gambit808' date='Mar 19 2012, 01:55 PM' post='554744']
I know Pacquiao better get his shit together before Floyd decide to stay at 54 and have it play a factor in the next time they negotiate.
[/


i've heard people sayin floyd will make manny come to 154 to fight . smh manny is afraid of fighting above 147 but i would make him fight at 150 . all he gott do is put on 3 lbs of Juice .
sduck
Can someone make a video about Sergio Martinez 'adjusting'? Because I really don't see it. I just see a guy taking advantage over other fighter's mistakes such like stamina or stupid fightin, not really adjusting.

QUOTE (leonthegee @ Mar 19 2012, 01:14 PM) *
I see Serg v Floyd happening first and I also give Serg the better chance of winning. But I still see Serg having only a 20% chance of really winning the fight. I think Serg's best quality is his movement. I dont think Serg has the creative arsenal to beat a complete fighter like Floyd. Serg is basically jab straight left hand. I dont see any right or left hooks or any body punching what so ever.

Take all of the foot stomping out of the fight and I didnt see Macklin all that hurt. The knockout came more from fatigue and I dont see Floyd fading late in the fight. I know Serg is an undersized MW but at his age how easy can he make 154? And this fights most likely taking place a year from now. His last fight at 154 was 3 years ago and he wasnt really that great then. I give Serg a punchers chance but Floyd protects his chin like Tigers protect their young. I think Floyd beats Serg easily.

Agreed. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way. Sergio Martinez is pretty much a one-dimensional fighter who can't make adjustments, especially to boxing styles. And when you put a one-dimensional fighter against a technician like Floyd, that's easy work. Unless they got a chin and pressure dedication like Oscar or Castillo, then it's pretty much easy.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Mar 19 2012, 01:51 PM) *
1. Also, Which of the 2 has a better chance of beating Floyd?
2. Which fight do you think happens 1st?
3. Do you think jumping up and down in weight to get these fights at this stage in Floyd's career spell doom for him the way it did for Roy Jones?


1. Sergio has the better chance to beat Floyd because of his quick/stiff jab and a very good jab at that. He's bigger and knows how to box a bit which takes smart controlled aggression against Mayweather. The only weaknesses Sergio will have which will cost him dearly in a fight against Mayweather is that he fights with his hands down and he gets overly aggressive.

2. Mayweather- Martinez because Floyd entertained the idea more than once. Martinez is willing to take a low cut pay and take ODST to fight Mayweather. I'm betting that he will stick to his word and he's willing to come down to 150 to fight Mayweather. But I believe Mayweather will fight him at 154.

3. I kinda think it will affect him differently than RJJR did because Mayweather always stayed in great shape whether he's scheduled to fight or not so that helps. He stays healthy and doesn't abuse his body.
Gambit808
QUOTE (CauzinRuckus @ Mar 19 2012, 01:56 PM) *
1. niether can beat floyd but martinez will have a better chance . simply becuase pac is 1 dimensional and can't fight of the back foot. Martinez wants u to attack him cuz he can fight backing up. but his style with the hands down wouldn't fly, if macklin was able to get box him and make him adjust floyd would easily beat him. i was impressed wit martinez's will to win and steppin up after the knockdown .

2.being that floyd will beat cotto and become a title-holder in the 154 class martinez will have the right to push for this fight since he fights so close to that wait. Plus 80/20 is wat martinez will offer. Dat smells like $$ so he will have floyds attention.

3.i've seen people say i wont matter but it will , roy jones was preserved very well, wen he decided to jump weights that was his doom. he fought often but he wasn't gettin hit. Floyd is the same way we haven't seen him get hit with hard shots alot so we dont kno if his chin is glass or a diamond. his conditioning will help him shake off punches like mosely hit him with, but he was hurt no ? i think his solid home is 147 but not enough big names at 154 to stay there.


1+ on point 1 & 3

are you willing to put your house up on a bold prediction like that sir lol, i mean on paper yea Floyd is supposed to tax that ass but the squared circle is where the truth comes out and this fight right here can go either way. I like floyd just as much as anyone but i would never over look Cotto... even if he's past his prime.

plus for some reason that 80/20 offer reminds me of the same confidence Tarver showed with Roy when they fought, idk it could be just me who feels that way.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Mar 19 2012, 03:10 PM) *
1. Sergio has the better chance to beat Floyd because of his quick/stiff jab and a very good jab at that. He's bigger and knows how to box a bit which takes smart controlled aggression against Mayweather. The only weaknesses Sergio will have which will cost him dearly in a fight against Mayweather is that he fights with his hands down and he gets overly aggressive.

2. Mayweather- Martinez because Floyd entertained the idea more than once. Martinez is willing to take a low cut pay and take ODST to fight Mayweather. I'm betting that he will stick to his word and he's willing to come down to 150 to fight Mayweather. But I believe Mayweather will fight him at 154.

3. I kinda think it will affect him differently than RJJR did because Mayweather always stayed in great shape whether he's scheduled to fight or not so that helps. He stays healthy and doesn't abuse his body.

This is exactly the point I was tryin' to make when I made my comments on this matter thumbsup_anim.gif.
BigFightFan
I prefer the pacquia fight, Sergio needs to move to 164 and fight those guys.
Cheesey1
I picked Mayweather vs. Martinez @ 154. If it ends up at 150, I'd still rather see that than the other option.

I'd still pick Mayweather to win, because he's that good, but I think that Martinez would be a legitimate threat.

Anyway, I hope that Mayweather isn't overlooking Cotto, because this is Cotto at 154, not the poor guy that had been locked in the basement with only water and bread when he was fighting at 147, or 144, whatever retarded weight he went down to.
karmine20
QUOTE (CauzinRuckus @ Mar 19 2012, 02:56 PM) *
1. niether can beat floyd but martinez will have a better chance . simply becuase pac is 1 dimensional and can't fight of the back foot. Martinez wants u to attack him cuz he can fight backing up. but his style with the hands down wouldn't fly, if macklin was able to get box him and make him adjust floyd would easily beat him. i was impressed wit martinez's will to win and steppin up after the knockdown .

2.being that floyd will beat cotto and become a title-holder in the 154 class martinez will have the right to push for this fight since he fights so close to that wait. Plus 80/20 is wat martinez will offer. Dat smells like $$ so he will have floyds attention.

3.i've seen people say i wont matter but it will , roy jones was preserved very well, wen he decided to jump weights that was his doom. he fought often but he wasn't gettin hit. Floyd is the same way we haven't seen him get hit with hard shots alot so we dont kno if his chin is glass or a diamond. his conditioning will help him shake off punches like mosely hit him with, but he was hurt no ? i think his solid home is 147 but not enough big names at 154 to stay there.


First off you are contradicting yourself in so many ways. How can you say in one sentence that you don’t know if his chin is glass or a diamond and in the next sentence say his conditioning is what helped him shake off the Mosley hit. BAFOOONERY, Floyd has a great chin. Secondly the difference between him and ROY is Defense. Roy’s defense was his reflexes Floyd’s defense is the Philly shell. Get your shit together before you openly state bull shit!
karmine20
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 19 2012, 03:09 PM) *
Can someone make a video about Sergio Martinez 'adjusting'? Because I really don't see it. I just see a guy taking advantage over other fighter's mistakes such like stamina or stupid fightin, not really adjusting.


Agreed. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way. Sergio Martinez is pretty much a one-dimensional fighter who can't make adjustments, especially to boxing styles. And when you put a one-dimensional fighter against a technician like Floyd, that's easy work. Unless they got a chin and pressure dedication like Oscar or Castillo, then it's pretty much easy.


Not to mention the fool fights with his hand down to his knees. No way in hell he will be able to conduct that same approach against FLOYD. He fights EVERYONE with his hands to his knees. NO WAY JOSE. NOT GONNA FLY. Either he takes a more respectable aproach or he will be another WIN in floyds Column
Thickback
1) Martinez definitely has the better chance at winning.

1) Floyd said he would fight martinez already so this fight can easily be made.

3) Roy was suckered into fighting Tarver when he was thinking of bowing out of the game once he won the HW title. He then had to lose a ridiculous amount of muscle to make weight to fight Tarver. Floyd gradually moved from 130-154 and stays in crazy shape. He will be fine. He just can't take any flush straight rights from Martinez. I think Martinez has enough power to hurt Mayweather, IF he can land at all.
Cshel86
QUOTE (CauzinRuckus @ Mar 19 2012, 02:56 PM) *
niether can beat floyd but martinez will have a better chance .

I agree.

QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 19 2012, 03:09 PM) *
Can someone make a video about Sergio Martinez 'adjusting'? Because I really don't see it. I just see a guy taking advantage over other fighter's mistakes such like stamina or stupid fightin, not really adjusting.

Muthafreakin' +1!!! THANK YOU! I have YET to see Sergio make these "adjustments" during fights. Luckily for him, his opponents tire because of his constant movement and ability to counter punch...not because he counter punches at will (not true), but the shit happens to land flush after so many attempts.

So yes, his opponents give him their best shot in the middle rounds because they feel themselves wearing down, and he (Martinez) tends to get stuck in the mud in the middle rounds, for some odd reason.


Seriously, Sergio leaves himself open for punches as well...straight punches to be exact. Does anybody notice that he gets hit more than he should, and it usually happens during exchanges? I saw soooo many opportunities for Macklin to catch Sergio with some good shots, and guess where those openings were? Yep you got it, straight up the middle.

Guess who likes to throws punches straight up the middle? Yep you got it...Mayweather himself. Let's look for Martinez to be the bigger man if they fight at 54, but guess what punch Floyd will lnad if nothing else lands...yep, you got it...that straight right hand.

Sergio DOES NOT adjust as great as people give him credit for. He's so used to being first, that it's crazy. When guys like Dzinrurik (sp) and Barker can land shots on Sergio, then look for Mayweather to land those same shots with confidence, precision, and a better follow-up other than the usual, "Oh shit, I landed a punch against Martinez" moments that Sergio's opponents have.

Im not saying that this will be a grand walk in the park for Floyd, but picture this, who has Martinez fought with speed, great defense, who lands precise punches...even if he only throws a handful? Another thing...when those straight right comes flying in, will Sergio be left fighting with an unusually high sense of defense, or will get peppered and wonder why he cant stop getting caught with the same punch?

Oh yeah, though Mayweather insinuated a Martinez fight (I believe he did, cant remember), just look for it to happen at 54. I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon, especially since the Cotto fight hasn't happened. Mayweather may have fought for the Jr. Middleweight title, but he's never tipped 154 on the scale. He more than likely wont for the Cotto fight, and the same goes for the Martinez fight. So let's look for Floyd to be a WW and Martinez to hit 154 on the head.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Thickback @ Mar 19 2012, 05:00 PM) *
1) Martinez definitely has the better chance at winning.

1) Floyd said he would fight martinez already so this fight can easily be made.

3) Roy was suckered into fighting Tarver when he was thinking of bowing out of the game once he won the HW title. He then had to lose a ridiculous amount of muscle to make weight to fight Tarver. Floyd gradually moved from 130-154 and stays in crazy shape. He will be fine. He just can't take any flush straight rights from Martinez. I think Martinez has enough power to hurt Mayweather, IF he can land at all.

Lefts
wolterb
1.I think Martinez fairs better. In one of the macklin fight interviews Martinez states he likes challenges and I believe him. I've noticed he goofs off until his opponent gives him a reason to fight, then you can tell there is something above par in Martinez.

It takes present danger for Martinez to throw and I think the same applies to Mayweather.

I also think Mayweather is pretty well fine tuned to fight rush-in, bullheaded fighters. Martinez presents a different challenge. He'd be a bigger man with power who will try to think throughout the fight and land counters. Martinez could present Mayweather with what Mosley should have.

Speaking of Mosley, I think this fight could be potentially reminiscent of Mosley-Mayweather if Martinez finds Mayweather is too fast. Then he'd probably freeze up and get too focused on out-feinting.

2. Hard to say...

3. I don't think so. It wouldn't surprise me if a bigger frame is to his advantage now that he is getting older (by boxing standards). His weight has probably increased throughout the years, not uncommon for men. But, there is a chance it could be dangerous. The De La Hoya fight, for me, made Mayweather really rely on his feet and stifle his punch output. Some of the Ortiz blows appeared to really shock Mayweather, too. So there is some evidence suggesting Mayweather is more vulnerable at the higher weight.
pesticid
Floyd would be the favourite against Sergio, but it will be a tough one. Floyd has never faced anybody quite like Martinez.
Nobody poses more of a challenge to Floyd than Martinez and vice versa. The only two things Floyd has over Sergio is boxing IQ and defense everything else is even money or in favour of Martinez.
checkleft
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 19 2012, 03:09 PM) *
Can someone make a video about Sergio Martinez 'adjusting'? Because I really don't see it. I just see a guy taking advantage over other fighter's mistakes such like stamina or stupid fightin, not really adjusting.


Agreed. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way. Sergio Martinez is pretty much a one-dimensional fighter who can't make adjustments, especially to boxing styles. And when you put a one-dimensional fighter against a technician like Floyd, that's easy work. Unless they got a chin and pressure dedication like Oscar or Castillo, then it's pretty much easy.



QUOTE (karmine20 @ Mar 19 2012, 04:40 PM) *
Not to mention the fool fights with his hand down to his knees. No way in hell he will be able to conduct that same approach against FLOYD. He fights EVERYONE with his hands to his knees. NO WAY JOSE. NOT GONNA FLY. Either he takes a more respectable aproach or he will be another WIN in floyds Column

Do either of you guys box by any chance?.. Jw

The gamplan was smart but he did show adjustments to answer your question.
He started planting at a wider stance when leading with his straight and shooting it a little further left so he could land cleanly. Also he began throwing left uppercuts when macklin was coming in (one almost put him down, partly due to balance). Not to mention the wider stance with his lead foot helped him avoid another "kd" (trip) as the fight went on. Also he started following up his straight with a sort of power jab that had some steam on it. Eventually the circling effective jab and lead straights fatigued and broke macklin down to set up the kds and force the stoppage from the corner.
checkleft
Btw Martinez fights with his hands down when he gets comfortable enough to provoke his opponent to throw. In the pwill fights he hardly did it if at all. To call it stupid is an opinion because many boxers have used it successfully. I agree he should probably not do it against Floyd which he probably wouldn't, mayweather has done this many times as well.
checkleft
QUOTE (wolterb @ Mar 19 2012, 06:51 PM) *
1.I think Martinez fairs better. In one of the macklin fight interviews Martinez states he likes challenges and I believe him. I've noticed he goofs off until his opponent gives him a reason to fight, then you can tell there is something above par in Martinez.

It takes present danger for Martinez to throw and I think the same applies to Mayweather.

I also think Mayweather is pretty well fine tuned to fight rush-in, bullheaded fighters. Martinez presents a different challenge. He'd be a bigger man with power who will try to think throughout the fight and land counters. Martinez could present Mayweather with what Mosley should have.

Speaking of Mosley, I think this fight could be potentially reminiscent of Mosley-Mayweather if Martinez finds Mayweather is too fast. Then he'd probably freeze up and get too focused on out-feinting.

2. Hard to say...

3. I don't think so. It wouldn't surprise me if a bigger frame is to his advantage now that he is getting older (by boxing standards). His weight has probably increased throughout the years, not uncommon for men. But, there is a chance it could be dangerous. The De La Hoya fight, for me, made Mayweather really rely on his feet and stifle his punch output. Some of the Ortiz blows appeared to really shock Mayweather, too. So there is some evidence suggesting Mayweather is more vulnerable at the higher weight.

+1 great post especially about Martinez reaction to mayweathers speed.
Thickback
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Mar 19 2012, 05:37 PM) *
Lefts


Thanks....
karmine20
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Btw Martinez fights with his hands down when he gets comfortable enough to provoke his opponent to throw. In the pwill fights he hardly did it if at all. To call it stupid is an opinion because many boxers have used it successfully. I agree he should probably not do it against Floyd which he probably wouldn't, mayweather has done this many times as well.



Point taken and point well made.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Btw Martinez fights with his hands down when he gets comfortable enough to provoke his opponent to throw. In the pwill fights he hardly did it if at all. To call it stupid is an opinion because many boxers have used it successfully. I agree he should probably not do it against Floyd which he probably wouldn't, mayweather has done this many times as well.

This is true, but in a sport where 1 punch can end it all, or 1 mistake can cost you (dearly), it's highly unacceptable... especially when "my" money is on the line. I be bettin' on these guys. laugh.gif.
Cshel86
I agree with the point about him fighting with his hands down to provoke his opponent into throwing, and Im sure he wont attempt such a thing in a high profile fight. With that said, I cant really picture Sergio being on the defensive end of a fight.

I was also laughed at how the HBO commentators were saying that he wasn't fighting like the champion of the world. Really? I agree that he isn't a top P4P fighter, but he is still the champ (in a sense).

Seriously, the way that some guys fight, separates them from the rest...that's why only a few fighters are recognized as true champions. Merchant always looks for a Gatti/Ward fight, Steward just cant stop fuckin' fantasizing about Tommy Hearns, and Lampley was being his usual "nuthuggerish" self...searching for a basic Freddie Roach type fighter...no2.gif
checkleft
I don't understand why hbo puts commentators who continually talk bad about their product.. to me mayweather and Martinez are definitely both top 3 p4p closely followed by Andre ward. And these guys can't seem to say a good thing about them. It's ridiculous, no wonder ward sticks to showtime. They show so much respect to the fighters and actually call them on their bullshit instead of just talking down on them. I mean if it wasn't for the fighters they would be out of the job.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 01:16 PM) *
I don't understand why hbo puts commentators who continually talk bad about their product.. to me mayweather and Martinez are definitely both top 3 p4p closely followed by Andre ward. And these guys can't seem to say a good thing about them. It's ridiculous, no wonder ward sticks to showtime. They show so much respect to the fighters and actually call them on their bullshit instead of just talking down on them. I mean if it wasn't for the fighters they would be out of the job.

You have a valid argument there, Sir. Great point!
sduck
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 12:25 AM) *
Do either of you guys box by any chance?.. Jw

The gamplan was smart but he did show adjustments to answer your question.
He started planting at a wider stance when leading with his straight and shooting it a little further left so he could land cleanly. Also he began throwing left uppercuts when macklin was coming in (one almost put him down, partly due to balance). Not to mention the wider stance with his lead foot helped him avoid another "kd" (trip) as the fight went on. Also he started following up his straight with a sort of power jab that had some steam on it. Eventually the circling effective jab and lead straights fatigued and broke macklin down to set up the kds and force the stoppage from the corner.

I was going to answer, but what would it matter if someone boxed or not?

I don't see this as adjusting. What I saw was Sergio trying to land jab, straight left, and was able to land the left uppercut when he or Macklin rushed in. It became easier for him to land as Macklin continuously fatigued, then to the point where Macklin burned out and had no defense (after he scored the KD on Sergio). It was a problem with Macklin's conditioning, Sergio wasn't breaking him down. It was actually the same with the Barker fight.

QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Btw Martinez fights with his hands down when he gets comfortable enough to provoke his opponent to throw. In the pwill fights he hardly did it if at all. To call it stupid is an opinion because many boxers have used it successfully. I agree he should probably not do it against Floyd which he probably wouldn't, mayweather has done this many times as well.

I would agree with that assessment if I actually saw him baiting his opponent to counter, which he isn't doing. He's just showing off. Mayweather would do it to bait his opponent to lead first so he can typically counter with a straight right. He did a lot against Marquez. Sergio is rarely baiting and countering when he does this, he's like I said... showing off. He probably didn't do it against Paul Williams, because Williams has a high punch output, and Sergio isn't that dumb to keep his hands down when someone is tagging you 24/7.
checkleft
Being in the ring as opposed to just observing is a world of difference.

Thinking he just gassed is ignorant. In the ring taking nearly two hundred jabs to the face would MAKE anyone get tired. But I'm just giving my two cents as someone who has observed and then felt the difference in the ring. And those adjustments I described might seem small but in the ring they make a world of difference.
daprofessor
i won't consider any of these fights until floyd and manny handle the business at hand. both will have their hands full. i think pac is getting upset by bradley...plus his recent talk of retirement....the writing is on the wall.
Franchize
1. Martinez has the better chance of beating Floyd. Floyd is definitely a better skilled fighter than Manny and Sergio for sure, but 154 is 154. DiBella can say all he wants, Sergio walks around at about 170-175. He looks as big or bigger than Ortiz did, plus he's fast.

2. I actually think the Pacquiao fight gets made 1st. I think the excuses have been exhausted, and while I'm sure Arum will come up with more, I think people are gradually beginning to open their eyes. The people that were spreading the Bob Arum propaganda (lex. ESPN) are starting to wisen up and say "hey wait a minute." I think when Floyd gets outta jail, Manny's camp finally says "fuck it, let's just get this over with."

3. I don't think the weight will kill Floyd as it did Roy for two reasons. #1 Roy leaped cruiser and to fight heavyweights and then came back down. Floyd is really only going from 147 to 154. #2 Floyd doesn't bulk up really to fight these guys nor does he drain himself to make 147. He walks around at about 150 and will probably fight Cotto at about 150. I doubt Floyd is going to gain weight to get to 154.

BTW, I voted for Pacquiao vs Mayweather. While it's become a circus and annoying, I still want to see the fight. Furthermore, I think anyone who fights Floyd and Floyd himself will be done a disservice if this fight doesn't happen. Floyd could fight Vitali and some people would say "but you didn't fight Manny." Also, I think it will eliminate a huge population of ignorant, casual fans (mainly Pactards) that help enable Bob Arum. The Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight needs to happen for so much more than just a good matchup. It brings attention back to the sweet science and also breaks up the monopoly Arum is trying to create.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 20 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Btw Martinez fights with his hands down when he gets comfortable enough to provoke his opponent to throw. In the pwill fights he hardly did it if at all. To call it stupid is an opinion because many boxers have used it successfully. I agree he should probably not do it against Floyd which he probably wouldn't, mayweather has done this many times as well.

Yup and agreed that he has shown that he can box in a more orthodox manner i.e. hands up.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (wolterb @ Mar 19 2012, 06:51 PM) *
1.I think Martinez fairs better. In one of the macklin fight interviews Martinez states he likes challenges and I believe him. I've noticed he goofs off until his opponent gives him a reason to fight, then you can tell there is something above par in Martinez.

It takes present danger for Martinez to throw and I think the same applies to Mayweather.

I also think Mayweather is pretty well fine tuned to fight rush-in, bullheaded fighters. Martinez presents a different challenge. He'd be a bigger man with power who will try to think throughout the fight and land counters. Martinez could present Mayweather with what Mosley should have.

Speaking of Mosley, I think this fight could be potentially reminiscent of Mosley-Mayweather if Martinez finds Mayweather is too fast. Then he'd probably freeze up and get too focused on out-feinting.

2. Hard to say...

3. I don't think so. It wouldn't surprise me if a bigger frame is to his advantage now that he is getting older (by boxing standards). His weight has probably increased throughout the years, not uncommon for men. But, there is a chance it could be dangerous. The De La Hoya fight, for me, made Mayweather really rely on his feet and stifle his punch output. Some of the Ortiz blows appeared to really shock Mayweather, too. So there is some evidence suggesting Mayweather is more vulnerable at the higher weight.

Agreed. Just to clarify and as you are saying, I don't think that Martinez beats Mayweather, but he's got a decent chance.
Allmenjoi8
I would rather see Martinez vs. Floyd simply because this is the closest I will ever get to see a Roy Jones Mayweather type of match up. Martinez is the poor man's Roy Jones If Martinez is had the defense of Roy than I would give the match to Martinez but since Martinez is so easy to hit I would say Mayweather hits the ground running. Martinez is a slow started and no way Mayweather leaves himself open to get knocked out in the later rounds, He will be so far ahead of point he will probably cruise from rounds 9 through 12. I would say either 9-3 fight or 8-4.

Pac vs. Mayweather would have been great 3 years ago I have lost interest and besides this fight would be a boxing lesson. Mayweather will shut both Pacquiao's eyes and I think Pac would get wild in the fight which spells knock down and I think the ref would stop it. Now Pacquiao does have a punchers chance but again I don't know which Pac will show up.
Cshel86
Damn, did Checkleft just clean house for like 2 seconds? how did I overlook that? Good stuff man, I didn't have a comeback either. laugh.gif
sduck
I'll let people that think Sergio Martinez is all that keep believing that till he gets 'officially' exposed like Pacquiao. And I don't mean that harshly, because Sergio isn't actually cheating his opponents with catch-weights and whatnot.
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