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Cshel86
As for Robert Garcia...Im still hard pressed to understand why anyone considers him a great trainer. I honestly believe that he's a poor's man Freddie Roach.

1. Margarito sucks from a technical standpoint, and all he knows how to do is take punishment (in a good fashion), and go balls to wall in every fight.

2. Rios made it painfully obvious last night, that he doesn't know how to make adjustments. I mean, he dug a deeper hole for himself as the rounds passed. I laughed at him from the couch, and Abril laughed at him in the ring.

3. Donaire is just athletic as hell and has great power, but boxing wise...Vasquez made him look like a bit "amateurish" at certain points of the fight. Donaire struggles with making adjustments, and is often a victim of eating jabs, and cutting off the ring from time to time. I dont see the chemistry between him and Robert, but he does make Robert look good when he wins in an impressive fashion.

4. Pavlik...laugh.gif Im still laughing at this, somebody help me stop. Please...

5. Maidana...*sigh* Seriously?

6. Mikey Garcia - This has to be Robert's best fighter to date. He's disciplined when it comes to sticking to the game plan. They better take their time with him, because the rest of the fighters are already on the downside (aside from Donaire).

I've been feeling this way for a while, not just after last night. Does anybody see his instructions between rounds effective? How good is he, really?
sduck
Well... Some of his fighters lack any sort of technique, Margarito, Maidana, Rios. The most technically skilled fighter I would say Pavlik, but the best overall would be Mikey Garcia due to his focus and patience. The main thing Robert Garcia's fighters lack is defense. Pavlik, Garcia, and Donaire are aggressive counter-punchers who do naturally block punches with their gloves, but still get hit a lot, with the footwork and head movement not being there.

You know the trainer is one thing, but the true will comes from the fighter. If you pay attention to Rios' fight last night, Robert was trying to tell him to do something different, but Rios wouldn't listen. The problem with Freddie Roach is that all his fighters I've seen pretty much fight the same, and he doesn't give them adjustment advice, he tries to make them work with whatever gameplan they already established.
mrchitown
I honestly feel that Garcia is simply a productof his fighters' popularity. Maidana, Rios, Donaire and maybe in the future Mikey Garcia, they all have crowd pleasing stars for the fans. But the issue is being camouflaged by the fact that Garcia himself is not a trainer who can recognize and neutralize the opponents strategy by making in-fight adjustments. His fighters have different things that set them apart from each other but they all lack defense and that's a problem

Once his fighters start getting tagged, neither he nor they know what to do. They just plow ahead and hope for the best possible outcome. Donaire is a beast but Vazquez kind of exposed him to a certain degree. And his power has not transcended with him to the other weight classes. Of this keeps up and Donaire doesn't make some considerable strides, then he will be another Rios in a smaller division. I personally would never allow my fighter to train with Garcia of I was a manager or promoter. He says what people wants to hear, how many times did we here that Margarito's eye was ok leading up to the Cotto rematch? That thing lasted a round in a half. Then what about Rios' stellar conditioning program and he still couldn't make weight. He's dangerously full of shit and allows his fighter to take beatings like he did when he let Marbarito get pummeled by Pacquio
Cheesey1
QUOTE (sduck @ Apr 15 2012, 02:21 PM) *
Well... Some of his fighters lack any sort of technique, Margarito, Maidana, Rios. The most technically skilled fighter I would say Pavlik, but the best overall would be Mikey Garcia due to his focus and patience. The main thing Robert Garcia's fighters lack is defense. Pavlik, Garcia, and Donaire are aggressive counter-punchers who do naturally block punches with their gloves, but still get hit a lot, with the footwork and head movement not being there.

You know the trainer is one thing, but the true will comes from the fighter. If you pay attention to Rios' fight last night, Robert was trying to tell him to do something different, but Rios wouldn't listen. The problem with Freddie Roach is that all his fighters I've seen pretty much fight the same, and he doesn't give them adjustment advice, he tries to make them work with whatever gameplan they already established.

Agreed. R. Garcia was even showing that numbskull Rios how to f'ing bob and weave after one of the rounds.

As far as Pavlik and some of Garcia's other boxers (not including Margarito), were they always trained by him? I have to look into it some more, but my initial thoughts are that R. Garcia is a good trainer. As far as the lack of d, I'll have to look at who has always been in his camp to see if it's endemic to his training style and not the styles of the fighters themselves.
I fault Rios for yesterday and not Garcia, but whatever, Rios got paid and he'll get paid again. All praise be unto the Holy Top Rank.
pimpfighterROQ
Most trainers knows what to do and what to adjust mid-fight. However like an untrained dog, one doesn't know how to beg or play dead when he only knows how to sit and bark.


Rios failed to adjust to Abril last night. He should've threw overhand rights like what Maidana does against Khan. Garcia needs to discipline all his fighters to perform a certain way and to implement various gameplans. I mean seriously, not making weight for the 2nd time? I don't care if he's been a lightweight for 8 years, look at fucking JMM. Rios lacks discipline, intelligence and ability to adjust his come forward style. Another Margarito in the making...
mgrover
A lot of fights have no defence and what pisses me off is that they use head movement when the opponent isn't punching them not when the punch is coming towards them.I think the ability to slip well seems almost lost in a lot of fighters
checkleft
I think both Garcia brothers are good not great trainers. They seem to be knowledgeable but other than mikey I think they have a nak for hard headed stubborn fighters with limited focus.
Franchize
Overrated trainer. Underrated fighter!
Sunni6Killer
Very good.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 15 2012, 11:26 AM) *
As for Robert Garcia...Im still hard pressed to understand why anyone considers him a great trainer. I honestly believe that he's a poor's man Freddie Roach.

1. Margarito sucks from a technical standpoint, and all he knows how to do is take punishment (in a good fashion), and go balls to wall in every fight.

2. Rios made it painfully obvious last night, that he doesn't know how to make adjustments. I mean, he dug a deeper hole for himself as the rounds passed. I laughed at him from the couch, and Abril laughed at him in the ring.

3. Donaire is just athletic as hell and has great power, but boxing wise...Vasquez made him look like a bit "amateurish" at certain points of the fight. Donaire struggles with making adjustments, and is often a victim of eating jabs, and cutting off the ring from time to time. I dont see the chemistry between him and Robert, but he does make Robert look good when he wins in an impressive fashion.

4. Pavlik...laugh.gif Im still laughing at this, somebody help me stop. Please...

5. Maidana...*sigh* Seriously?

6. Mikey Garcia - This has to be Robert's best fighter to date. He's disciplined when it comes to sticking to the game plan. They better take their time with him, because the rest of the fighters are already on the downside (aside from Donaire).

I've been feeling this way for a while, not just after last night. Does anybody see his instructions between rounds effective? How good is he, really?

1. With the exception of Mikey Garcia, a lot of Robert's fighters are like that, but that's just their style of fightin'. They look decent against other brawlers, but when they're in the ring with real boxers, the boxer always make the brawler look amateur-ish.

2. This proves the point I made on #1.

3. Again, this proves the point I made on #1.

4. As far as Pavlik goes, I saw some improvement in his left hand once he started trainin' with Robert. There's not much I can do to discredit Robert for Pavlik's improvement in that sense. I was impressed.

5. What's the problem? laugh.gif

6. +1

Robert is decent as a trainer, but he's still a work in progress. I think a lot of people give him respect and props based on his personality. Dude seems like he is 1 of the most humble beings 1 could ever meet. He's humble, plus he doesn't show bias when it comes to his own stable of fighters. Personally, I like the dude as a person and as a trainer. He's still a work in progress, but I think he could be 1 of the top dogs in trainin' soon.
Cshel86
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Apr 16 2012, 05:06 PM) *
Robert is decent as a trainer, but he's still a work in progress. I think a lot of people give him respect and props based on his personality. Dude seems like he is 1 of the most humble beings 1 could ever meet. He's humble, plus he doesn't show bias when it comes to his own stable of fighters. Personally, I like the dude as a person and as a trainer. He's still a work in progress, but I think he could be 1 of the top dogs in trainin' soon.

I agree man. Robert is a good guy, and I could never take that away from him. He has some exciting fighters who seemed to have been established in their own way, before training with him (except for Mikey and Rios I believe).

Most of them lack defense (which most of you have mentioned), and it makes him look bad when things go sour. He was giving Brandon some decent instructions last weekend, but he pretty much ignored it. The problem with Robert that night is, he didn't show any type of urgency until the championship rounds...hell, it could've just been before the final round.
MaxPayne
Robert Garcia gets a lot of hype because he's being targeted by Top Rank to train their cream of the crop fighters. They clearly believe that Freddie Roach doesn't have too much time left in the sport, and they want Garcia to be that guy, who is able to train fighters to be exciting and also provide good sound bytes for hyping up fights.

As a trainer, I really don't see him as anything special. He and Roach have one important thing in common: their fighters seem to do well against a certain type of flat footed opponent who is willing to stand and trade. It's hard for their fighters to look good against people who can, you know, BOX ?

In terms of being a pure teacher and being able to game plan, I don't see Garcia being on the same level as guys like Brother Naazim, Eddie Mustafa or even someone like Teddy Atlas.
Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Apr 16 2012, 09:47 PM) *
As a trainer, I really don't see him as anything special. He and Roach have one important thing in common: their fighters seem to do well against a certain type of flat footed opponent who is willing to stand and trade. It's hard for their fighters to look good against people who can, you know, BOX ?

This pretty much explains it all. We've seen how both their fighters fair against somebody who is willing to systematically engage and control fights, rather than going balls to wall.
pesticid
Garcia is as bad as Buddy MgGirt, the two most overrated trainers in boxing. Except Garcia has a better winning record.
He almost had MArgarito killed against Pacman, the guy is retarted no doubt. They won;t find Rigo, Donaire and him.They won;t be able to game plan for Rigo, they can't game plan for anybody but a brawler and a scared fighter. So I agree he is a poor man Freddie's Roach except that his fighters fight better on the inside and that's not thanks to him but their talent and chins and Roach's fighters fight better on the outside again no thanks to him. Forget about Chavez, Roach doesn't even train him much.

I still think Buddy is the worst ever though. His rocord is abysmal.

I am still mad about the fight where Brewster fought Sergheir and had his retina detached, yet McGirt let him continue for all 12 rounds. Then he stops the fight against Martinex, talk about double incompetent standard.
And how about telling Tarver, just to not take punishment against Bernard so he doesn't get hurt but when Brewster had his eye messed up he is asking him to goo for the kill and Brewster got beat up bad. Buddy and Garcia take the cake.
pesticid
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Apr 16 2012, 04:06 PM) *
Dude seems like he is 1 of the most humble beings 1 could ever meet. He's humble, plus he doesn't show bias when it comes to his own stable of fighters. Personally, I like the dude as a person and as a trainer. He's still a work in progress, but I think he could be 1 of the top dogs in trainin' soon.


Garcia is fake, he acts humble for the cameras, he is a snake. Pay close attention to his body language, his interviews, his 24/7. He is mean and stupid but he presents himself as better and good for him cause some folks are buying it so he knows how to hustle. He is as humble and nice as Manny Pacquiao lol
Cshel86
God Pesticid...for you to bring up Buddy McGirt, truly brings up the idea of opening another thread. laugh.gif Damn McGirt sucks, and his fighters' performances tells the story. As for Garcia, I still believe he is a humble guy, and notice that he says the right things AFTER he gets his paycheck. laugh.gif

Before the fight, he puts his fighter out there as a game fighter, and somebody who is able to take punishment and give it out...it makes his stable of fighters seem invincible in a sense.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 15 2012, 11:26 AM) *
As for Robert Garcia...Im still hard pressed to understand why anyone considers him a great trainer. I honestly believe that he's a poor's man Freddie Roach.

1. Margarito sucks from a technical standpoint, and all he knows how to do is take punishment (in a good fashion), and go balls to wall in every fight.

2. Rios made it painfully obvious last night, that he doesn't know how to make adjustments. I mean, he dug a deeper hole for himself as the rounds passed. I laughed at him from the couch, and Abril laughed at him in the ring.

3. Donaire is just athletic as hell and has great power, but boxing wise...Vasquez made him look like a bit "amateurish" at certain points of the fight. Donaire struggles with making adjustments, and is often a victim of eating jabs, and cutting off the ring from time to time. I dont see the chemistry between him and Robert, but he does make Robert look good when he wins in an impressive fashion.

4. Pavlik...laugh.gif Im still laughing at this, somebody help me stop. Please...

5. Maidana...*sigh* Seriously?

6. Mikey Garcia - This has to be Robert's best fighter to date. He's disciplined when it comes to sticking to the game plan. They better take their time with him, because the rest of the fighters are already on the downside (aside from Donaire).

I've been feeling this way for a while, not just after last night. Does anybody see his instructions between rounds effective? How good is he, really?


1. margarito is what he is...all robert could do was get him in shape. he's not changing.

2. rios was developed as an amateur in kc had well over 100 fights before garcia started working with him. i think he was pretty much developed and there's not much he can change about him.

3. donaire...again...another fighter developed elsewhere who isn't going to learn much from robert...but he can get in decent shape.

4. pavlik...i actually believe robert can teach him somethings and maybe get him back to his aggressive style with a few new wrinkles to his game.

5. maidana....set in his ways...not changing.

6. mikey garcia....i believe the guy responsible for developing mikey is actually eduardo garcia...the kids pops...and i think robert takes the reigns for the fight only. i could be wrong...but i believe that's what happens. the kid is solid and is definitely a product of that family.
Zaryu
I think he's a good trainer. Overrated because of a good winning streak his fighters had at a certain moment, and now catching some heat when the streak is not so good on his side. In both cases he has fallen victim to being judged as a trainer by his fighters performances alone and not necessarily with what he actually brought to the table. At first he was given too much credit (imo), and now he's been criticized a bit too much. I'm not sure Maidana is a valid argument here as we haven't seen the fruit of their work together yet, but with Margarito and Pavlik I've seen some improvement. I thought Margarito fought a good fight against Pacquiao (as good as he could possibly fight), I think Margo really hurt Manny too. The problem here was not stopping the fight. But that could have cost him his relationship with Margarito, which of course translates to money.

With Pavlik I actually saw improvements also. He placed his shots well, and as soon as Jaco attempted an attack I noticed Kelly moving his head and continued setting up his punches. Even if Pavlik loses down the road, we need to see his perfomance and compare it to how he looked before joining Garcia, and what advise he gave the fighter.Then we can judge him better. Considering it all I think he's a good trainer, probably one of the better trainers out there, but not a must to great trainer that everyone should seek out. He'll do good with certain fighters, but I don't think he's the type of trainer that will improve everyone or create great strategies for the biggest fights.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Zaryu @ Apr 18 2012, 09:00 AM) *
I think he's a good trainer. Overrated because of a good winning streak his fighters had at a certain moment, and now catching some heat when the streak is not so good on his side. In both cases he has fallen victim to being judged as a trainer by his fighters performances alone and not necessarily with what he actually brought to the table. At first he was given too much credit (imo), and now he's been criticized a bit too much. I'm not sure Maidana is a valid argument here as we haven't seen the fruit of their work together yet, but with Margarito and Pavlik I've seen some improvement. I thought Margarito fought a good fight against Pacquiao (as good as he could possibly fight), I think Margo really hurt Manny too. The problem here was not stopping the fight. But that could have cost him his relationship with Margarito, which of course translates to money.

With Pavlik I actually saw improvements also. He placed his shots well, and as soon as Jaco attempted an attack I noticed Kelly moving his head and continued setting up his punches. Even if Pavlik loses down the road, we need to see his perfomance and compare it to how he looked before joining Garcia, and what advise he gave the fighter.Then we can judge him better. Considering it all I think he's a good trainer, probably one of the better trainers out there, but not a must to great trainer that everyone should seek out. He'll do good with certain fighters, but I don't think he's the type of trainer that will improve everyone or create great strategies for the biggest fights.


i noticed that in pavliks last fight with lowe. i thought he actually made some improvements then.
pesticid
QUOTE (Zaryu @ Apr 18 2012, 09:00 AM) *
I think he's a good trainer. Overrated because of a good winning streak his fighters had at a certain moment, and now catching some heat when the streak is not so good on his side. In both cases he has fallen victim to being judged as a trainer by his fighters performances alone and not necessarily with what he actually brought to the table. At first he was given too much credit (imo), and now he's been criticized a bit too much. I'm not sure Maidana is a valid argument here as we haven't seen the fruit of their work together yet, but with Margarito and Pavlik I've seen some improvement. I thought Margarito fought a good fight against Pacquiao (as good as he could possibly fight), I think Margo really hurt Manny too. The problem here was not stopping the fight. But that could have cost him his relationship with Margarito, which of course translates to money.

With Pavlik I actually saw improvements also. He placed his shots well, and as soon as Jaco attempted an attack I noticed Kelly moving his head and continued setting up his punches. Even if Pavlik loses down the road, we need to see his perfomance and compare it to how he looked before joining Garcia, and what advise he gave the fighter.Then we can judge him better. Considering it all I think he's a good trainer, probably one of the better trainers out there, but not a must to great trainer that everyone should seek out. He'll do good with certain fighters, but I don't think he's the type of trainer that will improve everyone or create great strategies for the biggest fights.



Garcia is lucky that his fighters have a lot of heart. So is Roach.
E Steward has been stuck with some fighters with little heart such as Wlad so his work with him is impressive. He was stuck with Cintron who doesn't have any and he looked bad with him I guess. He was with Cotto for a bit but Cotto dropped him because Manny didn't believe in his skills in facing Margarito and Floyd so he chose the Cuban because he believes in him. I would've done the same thing. But back to Garcia, he isn't special, he isn't good, he can hold the mitts and tell you what to do. We'll see how Mickey does but I think if they serve him to Broner or Salido or Gamboa he will sink. Margartio looked sloppier with Garcia in his corner, in the Pacquiao fight I saw no defense whatsoever and I don't like Diaz cause he's fake with goodie two shoes image.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Zaryu @ Apr 18 2012, 09:00 AM) *
I think he's a good trainer. Overrated because of a good winning streak his fighters had at a certain moment, and now catching some heat when the streak is not so good on his side. In both cases he has fallen victim to being judged as a trainer by his fighters performances alone and not necessarily with what he actually brought to the table. At first he was given too much credit (imo), and now he's been criticized a bit too much. I'm not sure Maidana is a valid argument here as we haven't seen the fruit of their work together yet, but with Margarito and Pavlik I've seen some improvement. I thought Margarito fought a good fight against Pacquiao (as good as he could possibly fight), I think Margo really hurt Manny too. The problem here was not stopping the fight. But that could have cost him his relationship with Margarito, which of course translates to money.

With Pavlik I actually saw improvements also. He placed his shots well, and as soon as Jaco attempted an attack I noticed Kelly moving his head and continued setting up his punches. Even if Pavlik loses down the road, we need to see his perfomance and compare it to how he looked before joining Garcia, and what advise he gave the fighter.Then we can judge him better. Considering it all I think he's a good trainer, probably one of the better trainers out there, but not a must to great trainer that everyone should seek out. He'll do good with certain fighters, but I don't think he's the type of trainer that will improve everyone or create great strategies for the biggest fights.

+1
Zaryu
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 18 2012, 03:09 PM) *
i noticed that in pavliks last fight with lowe. i thought he actually made some improvements then.

He looked much better to me with Garcia than in his last fight with Lowe. I guess we'll just need to keep looking out for him on his next few fights against better oppisition.
Zaryu
QUOTE (pesticid @ Apr 18 2012, 03:20 PM) *
Garcia is lucky that his fighters have a lot of heart. So is Roach.
E Steward has been stuck with some fighters with little heart such as Wlad so his work with him is impressive. He was stuck with Cintron who doesn't have any and he looked bad with him I guess. He was with Cotto for a bit but Cotto dropped him because Manny didn't believe in his skills in facing Margarito and Floyd so he chose the Cuban because he believes in him. I would've done the same thing. But back to Garcia, he isn't special, he isn't good, he can hold the mitts and tell you what to do. We'll see how Mickey does but I think if they serve him to Broner or Salido or Gamboa he will sink. Margartio looked sloppier with Garcia in his corner, in the Pacquiao fight I saw no defense whatsoever and I don't like Diaz cause he's fake with goodie two shoes image.

I think in the Pacquiao fight the only mistake was not stopping the fight. Margarito's defense was never going to be good enough to make Pacquiao miss and make him pay. The startegy (and I believe his only viable option at winning) was to punch with Pacquiao, impose his size and hurt him. Unfortunately for Margarito he didn't get the win and that fight alsmot cost him the rest of his career. But he still managed to hurt Pacquiao in the fight and come close to putting him down.

Interesting things you mentioned about Cotto's decision to leave Steward, it had crossed my mind but, I hadn't really heard it before.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Zaryu @ Apr 19 2012, 05:19 PM) *
He looked much better to me with Garcia than in his last fight with Lowe. I guess we'll just need to keep looking out for him on his next few fights against better oppisition.


i didn't see his last fight. i'll have to check for it on youtube.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 24 2012, 02:15 PM) *
i didn't see his last fight. i'll have to check for it on youtube.

Here is Pavlik talkin' 'bout how he won that fight with his left hand (that Garcia improved)...

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