Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Miguel Cotto/Arturo Gatti
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
bMaK
I had this fight with a friend of mine last Saturday. This dude is very active in the boxing industry and normally goes along with the general consensus and all that crap so we fight all the time. Also fought about Sly Stallone being in the Hall. I'll hold my opinion for now, just want to see what y'all think.

Cotto or Gatti, who's more Canastota worthy?
bMaK
Note: I should say if you HAVE to choose 1.
daprofessor
at this point....i'd have to go with gatti for his trilogy with ward alone. sure, he really didn't accomplish much as far as winning titles, but neither has cotto. cotto has won vacant titles at 140 and 147 but didn't beat a belt holder until 154 with yuri foreman. yuri's biggest accomplishment (if u can call it that) was being ducked by pacquiao. now if ur asking who the better fighter is...cotto takes the cake. gatti was beat 9 times and 5 of those were by ko. his 2 biggest losses came from 2 of the best in the sport...oscar and floyd. no shame there. but guys like manfreddy, ivan robinson, mickey ward, baldomir and gomez don't even come close to the caliber of fighter miguel is and miguel's losses were respectable ones to pac and the cheater.
Zaryu
I say Cotto, he's a three division world champion and should have been recognized as an unified champ when he beat Clottey. He has some great names on his resume with some wins. He beat a game Mosley, put the first defeat on a couple of undefeated fighter who later became champs themselves (Maliggnaggi and Quintana), avenged his first defeat, and despite losing clearly to Pacquiao he was very competitive throughout the first rounds. He also defended his 140lbs title 6 times, defended his first welterweight title 4 times before losing it in a great fight, and should have been crowned unified champ after beating Clottey in a close fight. He has already defended his 154lbs title twice and is going up against one of the best fighters of his time. I don't think he'll get dominated like Gatti (RIP) did.

I don't really mind that most of his titles were vacant because technicalities can overshadow the real meaning of fights. Miguel Cotto has had great competition all thorughout his career, even when fighting for vacant titles. It's not like he was avoiding anyone. He always fought the best opposition available and that's what counts. Gatti was a great warrior and very good fighter, especially at 130lbs, but if we have to chose only one for the Hall of Fame I think the better fighter should get the nod. Although I do agree both belong there because of what they gave to the sport of boxing.
mgrover
Ibhof seems like a joke at times
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 1 2012, 01:04 PM) *
Ibhof seems like a joke at times


yeah, they pretty much lost all their credibility when they inducted stallone.
Cshel86
I voted Gatti, for the above stated reasons. In all honesty, the "Canastota standards" have almost gone to shit over the past few years. As I stated in another thread, "Stallone seriously being inducted into the HOF, does little to restore my faith in humanity".

I would say that both can and more than likely will be inducted. Gatti is more deserving...
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 1 2012, 02:11 PM) *
I voted Gatti, for the above stated reasons. In all honesty, the "Canastota standards" have almost gone to shit over the past few years. As I stated in another thread, "Stallone seriously being inducted into the HOF, does little to restore my faith in humanity".

I would say that both can and more than likely will be inducted. Gatti is more deserving...


after cotto beats floyd...he'll definitely leap frog gatti.
neophyte7
LMAO...last I checked you could not use baseball bats in the ring.. that is the only way COTTO wins against Floyd

Gatti does not belong in the hall of fame.. neither does Ward.. A trilogy with no major title on the line means crap.. it was exciting, yet between them damn near 20 losses??? Please...
Plah
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 1 2012, 04:38 PM) *
LMAO...last I checked you could not use baseball bats in the ring.. that is the only way COTTO wins against Floyd

Gatti does not belong in the hall of fame.. neither does Ward.. A trilogy with no major title on the line means crap.. it was exciting, yet between them damn near 20 losses??? Please...


Was thinking the same...
mgrover
i mean someone like hopkins, you can make an argument for, roy jones jr, james toney, but gatti? no offence to the man but who has he beat, seems like he lost his major fights, de la hoya, mayweather. maybe i don't think this era matches up to whats been before, i thought there was supposed to be progress in the way people fight, but boxing seems to of regressed, many people lack the fundementals and for that i don't think they should be inducted. i mean a slug fest isn't boxing, any two idiots in the street can do it, the purity of it seems lost in all these people trying to make a name for them selves because they have that magical 0 and this percentage of KO's but tiny balls when it comes to facing elite opposition.
neophyte7
LMAO.. with all due respect to the deceased ... Might as well put Emmanuel Agustus in there for his gatekeeper statuse if you got Gatti and Ward in there... make up some dubious category.. SLY stallone?? LMAO
daprofessor
tony zale and rocky graziano are in the hall of fame for their trilogy. both lost big fights and neither has a victory over anyone significant other than each other. both had a significant amount of losses. losses don't eliminate one from getting to the bhof.
Cshel86
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 1 2012, 04:38 PM) *
A trilogy with no major title on the line means crap..

Since when does a title actually hold weight nowadays? Barrera/Morales, Morales/Pacquiao, Marquez/Pacquiao...I can say one thing, the LAST thing that was thought about was a title belt (major or not).

Hell, people are winning vacated titles (against lesser opposition) and they're also winning titles at catchweights, sound familiar? I believe every fighter has won a vacated title, or two, or three.

Anyway trilogies are full of excitement, who is rarely forgotten. That entertainment provided by the fighters during those trilogies is what people tend to remember most, especially if breathes a breath of fresh air into the sport.

QUOTE (mgrover @ May 1 2012, 05:28 PM) *
i mean someone like hopkins, you can make an argument for, roy jones jr, james toney, but gatti? no offence to the man but who has he beat, seems like he lost his major fights, de la hoya, mayweather. maybe i don't think this era matches up to whats been before, i thought there was supposed to be progress in the way people fight, but boxing seems to of regressed, many people lack the fundementals and for that i don't think they should be inducted. i mean a slug fest isn't boxing, any two idiots in the street can do it, the purity of it seems lost in all these people trying to make a name for them selves because they have that magical 0 and this percentage of KO's but tiny balls when it comes to facing elite opposition.

If you think about it, Oscar lost a lot of his big fights, but guess what...he was exciting and drew so much attention to the sport. He'll definitely be inducted in the near future. I agree with the regression of the sport and fighting styles. Those guys back in the day used to beat eachother's brains out too, which has left most of them currently brain damaged and broke.

I understand fighters wanting to be as safe as possible in the ring (due to the above stated reasons), but the whole "fighting soft touches" and trying to remain undefeated, tends to chap my ass as well. They keep it up, THEN try to call out the big name fighters just for a payday, and most of them dont care if they win or lose those fights, as long as the money's in place.

Again, yes, guys fighting the best has gone to shit in the past few years. As boxing fans, we've been somewhat forced to "make the best" of what's being presented to us as "quality fights", while dealing with a bunch of ducking, protecting fighters, diva attitudes, false senses of entitlement from fighters, done-to-death megafight story lines, as well the "boxing is a business" bullshit being shoved down our throats.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 1 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Since when does a title actually hold weight nowadays? Barrera/Morales, Morales/Pacquiao, Marquez/Pacquiao...I can say one thing, the LAST thing that was thought about was a title belt (major or not).

Hell, people are winning vacated titles (against lesser opposition) and they're also winning titles at catchweights, sound familiar? I believe every fighter has won a vacated title, or two, or three.

Anyway trilogies are full of excitement, who is rarely forgotten. That entertainment provided by the fighters during those trilogies is what people tend to remember most, especially if breathes a breath of fresh air into the sport.


If you think about it, Oscar lost a lot of his big fights, but guess what...he was exciting and drew so much attention to the sport. He'll definitely be inducted in the near future. I agree with the regression of the sport and fighting styles. Those guys back in the day used to beat eachother's brains out too, which has left most of them currently brain damaged and broke.

I understand fighters wanting to be as safe as possible in the ring (due to the above stated reasons), but the whole "fighting soft touches" and trying to remain undefeated, tends to chap my ass as well. They keep it up, THEN try to call out the big name fighters just for a payday, and most of them dont care if they win or lose those fights, as long as the money's in place.

Again, yes, guys fighting the best has gone to shit in the past few years. As boxing fans, we've been somewhat forced to "make the best" of what's being presented to us as "quality fights", while dealing with a bunch of ducking, protecting fighters, diva attitudes, false senses of entitlement from fighters, done-to-death megafight story lines, as well the "boxing is a business" bullshit being shoved down our throats.


yea but oscar had gbp and he was a big ppv star
Cshel86
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 2 2012, 02:48 AM) *
yea but oscar had gbp and he was a big ppv star

I agree with that, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that he lost his biggest fights. To take the edge off of that, would be the fact that he was in those big fights in the first place. To drive the point even further, would be to go back to your initial point...he was a big PPV star and has a big promotional company.
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 2 2012, 02:44 PM) *
I agree with that, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that he lost his biggest fights. To take the edge off of that, would be the fact that he was in those big fights in the first place. To drive the point even further, would be to go back to your initial point...he was a big PPV star and has a big promotional company.


who ever said oscar should be in there.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 2 2012, 08:40 PM) *
who ever said oscar should be in there.

Good question, but let's not be surprised if it happens.
bMaK
Cotto's the better and more accomplished fighter, hands down. Gatti was exciting and identified with fans because of boxing's old-school culture. His credentials get boosted because he died early. Cotto gets the nod from me and it's not really close.

Sly Stallone in the hall is a fuckin joke. Again, it comes back to the dominant, long-running culture of tough-guy, macho Italian cats and how well those movies fit the narrative of the sport's background. I understand the influence and all that punk ass rationalized shit, but Rocky don't belong in the hall like Willie Beamon don't belong in the NFL Hall of Fame.
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 3 2012, 02:28 AM) *
Good question, but let's not be surprised if it happens.


he'll probably get in for beating washed up legends and holding the PPV record with Mayweather.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bMaK @ May 3 2012, 01:31 AM) *
but Rocky don't belong in the hall like Willie Beamon don't belong in the NFL Hall of Fame.

LMAO! Good one!

QUOTE (mgrover @ May 3 2012, 06:31 AM) *
he'll probably get in for beating washed up legends and holding the PPV record with Mayweather.

Sounds like enough to me...
sduck
Getting HOF status seems more about popularity than accomplishments. For example, Marquez is a future HOFer, but was beaten by people like Freddie Norwood and Chris John, but will they be in the HOF? I doubt it. And determining a fighter's career worth of accomplishments can be very subjective.
daprofessor
QUOTE (bMaK @ May 3 2012, 01:31 AM) *
Cotto's the better and more accomplished fighter, hands down. Gatti was exciting and identified with fans because of boxing's old-school culture. His credentials get boosted because he died early. Cotto gets the nod from me and it's not really close.

Sly Stallone in the hall is a fuckin joke. Again, it comes back to the dominant, long-running culture of tough-guy, macho Italian cats and how well those movies fit the narrative of the sport's background. I understand the influence and all that punk ass rationalized shit, but Rocky don't belong in the hall like Willie Beamon don't belong in the NFL Hall of Fame.


word.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.