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wolterb
I'd be interested in the rematch only because it was an entertaining fight. In this day and age though, we aren't gonna get it unless the decision was controversial (and the consensus is that it wasn't).

I personally think that Mayweather could make more interesting matchups, the last of the mohicans statement only makes sense to an extent. There are young dudes who could make things interesting. And i think as Mayweather ages he can promote those types of fights as the Master v. the Grasshopper dynamic.

Back to the topic, I think if a rematch was to happen Cotto should be yelping for it now, and shouldve called for it directly after the fight. He has to make the case in my opinion, especially when the decision was for the most part cut and dry
daprofessor
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 10 2012, 09:36 PM) *
you may be correct, the one thing I would say is I dont believe Cotto's weight had any factor in the fight with Pac. Cotto is a smaller man that moved to 154, not a larger man who moved down. Secondly watch the fight again v/s Pac. Cotto was not a weight drained fighter laying on the ropes in the later rounds trying to survive (ALA Roy Jones V/S Tarver). Cotto was on his bike running From Manny. Cotto has plenty of energy, he just couldnt land anything eating three shots back in return. Pacs Hand speed was the differance in that fight, it had nothing to do with weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO-euwjleUA

Lastly I am of the opinion that Bradley is under-rated, so you may be correct in him beating Pac



very valid. i'm going to look at the video again.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 10 2012, 11:49 PM) *
they can use 10 oz gloves at ww?


also we don't have the ppv numbers yet.

if mayweather/cotto does 1.5 mill or more, i could see floyd asking for a 60/40 split or 55/45 split.



10oz has been regulation at 147 since after the laevander johnson death. nsac did a review and came to the conclusion that welterweights should use 10oz gloves. i believe that rule was waived for the cotto/margarito fight by a request from arum if my memory serves me correctly.

i think when the numbers come in...they're going to realize that a rematch with cotto is in order.
checkleft
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 11 2012, 09:35 AM) *
I agree with the whole post, and this one sentence sums it up.


140 and up use 10oz gloves.


Thank you. People tend to sweep Team Pacquiao's "rehydration clauses" under the rug for some reason. Hell, I remember him making Oscar come down to 145, then only allowing him to rehydrate 2lbs. He ended up weighing more than Oscar on fight night. WTF? He did similar shit in some of his other fights. I have to find the articles, that's if they haven't been sent to no man's land by now.

+1
Idk how people can forget about these things..
God forbids someone ask for a rehydration clause against a tp fighter like idk rios or chavez
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 11 2012, 02:28 AM) *
Cotto moved to 147 because of weight issues. Yes he is a small man but he has a thick build, he has always been like that. And when cotto gasses his form of stalling is getting on his bike. Watch his fights, and you factor in the rehydration clause that was in effect, their is no doubt that weight was a factor in that fight. Rumor is he regained 10-15 pounds for the Floyd fight and Floyd lost weight due to some cold (bs or not idk).

But I believe you when you say Bradley is underratted. His biggest asset is that he is really smart, he knows when to be aggressive and when to pick his shots and when to smother. But his wide winging shots are the reason I think pac can hurt him.


the rehydration clause is theory/speculation. it has never been proven. if u can prove otherwise, i'd love to see a source.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 11 2012, 09:26 AM) *
But doesn't the fact that Arum HASN'T done that speak volumes? Say what you will about Floyd's demands but everything he's done has been backed up. We heard from BOTH sides that he made the call to get the fight done. We heard from BOTH sides that he wants drug testing. We know where Floyd stands. Arum doesn't even have the full support of Manny's own team. Alex Ariza is even saying he is the one holding up the fight.

End of the day, anyone can go back and forth about who is in the wrong.Who said what and so on and so forth. One thing that is unquestionably suspect and can't be explained:

Bob Arum said the fight couldn't be made because he needed and outdoor stadium AND Floyd offer was "disrespectful". So why is Manny Pacquiao fighting in the SAME VENUE for half of what Floyd offered him?


checkmate. laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 11 2012, 10:35 AM) *
I agree with the whole post, and this one sentence sums it up.


140 and up use 10oz gloves.

Thank you. People tend to sweep Team Pacquiao's "rehydration clauses" under the rug for some reason. Hell, I remember him making Oscar come down to 145, then only allowing him to rehydrate 2lbs. He ended up weighing more than Oscar on fight night. WTF? He did similar shit in some of his other fights. I have to find the articles, that's if they haven't been sent to no man's land by now.


again with the "rehydrations clauses"? where are u guys getting this stuff? unsure.gif

i think it's 147 and above that uses 10oz gloves.

checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 01:17 PM) *
again with the "rehydrations clauses"? where are u guys getting this stuff? unsure.gif

i think it's 147 and above that uses 10oz gloves.


I'm sure I could find plenty of sources but idk why that would ne necessary they have mentioned it in hbo live plenty of times..
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 11 2012, 10:41 AM) *
With all of this said, Cotto is a "lazy welterweight" as it's been mentioned numerous times. As for the "big fight", we will have to see what the numbers look like. Oh boy, wouldn't it be a shame if Mayweather/Cotto did over 1.4M???

So, if Mayweather/Cotto did over 1.4M buys and Mayweather also making $32 (guaranteed), which is the highest guaranteed purse in the history of the sport...then where does that leave room for any negotiation leverage on Arum's side? Looks like Manny will need Floyd before Floyd needs Manny.

I just dont see how you can be an 8-division champion, loved by the world, be the fighter of the decade along with having a trainer of the year (for consecutive years), and still make less money, compared to a guy that the world either hates, or loves to hate, makes the most. I'm still scratching my head over here...


i think it's going to crack 1.4. if so...the rematch will definitely be an option. floyd should do it in nyc just to sell out the garden....and give it a historical feel. has floyd ever fought at the garden? roy has...bhop has....trinidad has...all the greats do!!! it's time for floyd to take on the garden!!!

pac is going to have zero leverage after the bradley fight.

i can see how the 8 division champion makes less....he has a lot of ppl who do their best to make sure the circumstances are tilted in his favor...they all need to be compensated.
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ May 11 2012, 11:27 AM) *
I'd be interested in the rematch only because it was an entertaining fight. In this day and age though, we aren't gonna get it unless the decision was controversial (and the consensus is that it wasn't).

I personally think that Mayweather could make more interesting matchups, the last of the mohicans statement only makes sense to an extent. There are young dudes who could make things interesting. And i think as Mayweather ages he can promote those types of fights as the Master v. the Grasshopper dynamic.

Back to the topic, I think if a rematch was to happen Cotto should be yelping for it now, and shouldve called for it directly after the fight. He has to make the case in my opinion, especially when the decision was for the most part cut and dry


i think at this point they're waiting to see the numbers and the outcome of pac/bradley. u don't want to play ur cards too soon. i get it. also, i think they need to do the rematch precisely because it was entertaining. i think controversy is bad for the sport....and in those cases...i really don't care for the rematch.
checkleft
I think I heard it on the mayweather cotto ppv too
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 11 2012, 02:25 PM) *
I think I heard it on the mayweather cotto ppv too


the rehydration clause theory is something i came up with a while back and discussed thoroughly on another board. i was attacked venomously by ppl (who i now believe are shills for toprank) for even making the suggestion. the only real proof that i have seen in regards to such a clause is when roger mentioned in an interview that the only reason pac ktfo'd hatton so easily was because hatton was only allowed to gain 5lbs after the initial weigh in. that statement proved my theory imo but i have yet to see any writers or boxing ppl outside of roger mention it at all. the thread was deleted from that site...and i made many attempts to discuss the topic openly but everytime i tried i was attacked. i have been banned from the site.

if the theory is true...why hasn't any of pac's critics brought it out publicly? something of this nature would shake the boxing world to its' core imo. also....i believe ppl have not discussed it openly because they have signed "non-disclosure agreements" that prevent them from doing so. let's not forget that arum is/was a lawyer and similar things have been done with his fighters in the past. *see leonard/lalonde. i would not put it past arum or anyone else involved.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 05:22 PM) *
i can see how the 8 division champion makes less....he has a lot of ppl who do their best to make sure the circumstances are tilted in his favor...they all need to be compensated.



The reason Floyd sells so much is he understands that people love a bad guy, they pay every time hopeing he gets his head knocked off. Aside from being a great fighter, he is a master promoter
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 01:54 PM) *
the rehydration clause theory is something i came up with a while back and discussed thoroughly on another board. i was attacked venomously by ppl (who i now believe are shills for toprank) for even making the suggestion. the only real proof that i have seen in regards to such a clause is when roger mentioned in an interview that the only reason pac ktfo'd hatton so easily was because hatton was only allowed to gain 5lbs after the initial weigh in. that statement proved my theory imo but i have yet to see any writers or boxing ppl outside of roger mention it at all. the thread was deleted from that site...and i made many attempts to discuss the topic openly but everytime i tried i was attacked. i have been banned from the site.

if the theory is true...why hasn't any of pac's critics brought it out publicly? something of this nature would shake the boxing world to its' core imo. also....i believe ppl have not discussed it openly because they have signed "non-disclosure agreements" that prevent them from doing so. let's not forget that arum is/was a lawyer and similar things have been done with his fighters in the past. *see leonard/lalonde. i would not put it past arum or anyone else involved.

Um.. I didn't mean to unleash your demons Haha. That other site sounds harsh
But anyway I know for a fact I've heard it on hbo more than once, I've heard numerous reports, and the reason I don't think it "shook boxing to its core" as you put it is because people seem to not give a shit about what pac gets away with. Whether its he's cheating on his wife running scams or his head growing three hat sizes, and no its not just the Justin beiber hair cut. It doesn't surprise me that no one paid attention to this issue
mgrover
yes, but this time floyd actually boxes
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 02:17 PM) *
again with the "rehydrations clauses"? where are u guys getting this stuff? unsure.gif

i think it's 147 and above that uses 10oz gloves.

It's been said on HBO, and again, I read it somewhere else, but that article is sure to be in no man's land by now. As for that glove size for 140 and up, I believe it is because I've seen guys like Bradley fight with them several times, along with other fighters. Now, it could be a contractual thing, but from what I remember being mentioned, 140 and up had to use them, and I believe that rule went into effect a few years ago.

QUOTE (checkleft @ May 11 2012, 02:22 PM) *
I'm sure I could find plenty of sources but idk why that would ne necessary they have mentioned it in hbo live plenty of times..

I believe that mentioned it before one of Pac's fights...could have easily been the De La Hoya fight when they did the Tale of the Tape. I just heard it being mentioned on HBO.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 02:22 PM) *
i can see how the 8 division champion makes less....he has a lot of ppl who do their best to make sure the circumstances are tilted in his favor...they all need to be compensated.

Doesn't Floyd's people do the same? Now if the circumstances that you speak of, have something to with his opponents' weight being screwed around with, then I agree. Could Manny's people be compensated, or is Manny just getting ripped off?

QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 02:54 PM) *
the rehydration clause theory is something i came up with a while back and discussed thoroughly on another board. i was attacked venomously by ppl (who i now believe are shills for toprank) for even making the suggestion. the only real proof that i have seen in regards to such a clause is when roger mentioned in an interview that the only reason pac ktfo'd hatton so easily was because hatton was only allowed to gain 5lbs after the initial weigh in. that statement proved my theory imo but i have yet to see any writers or boxing ppl outside of roger mention it at all. the thread was deleted from that site...and i made many attempts to discuss the topic openly but everytime i tried i was attacked. i have been banned from the site.

Then why are you asking us "where are we getting this from?" If anything, I would like to know where some of your past info came from. Now you're about to make me go back and look for this info...
Hotsauce
154 and above uses 10 oz gloves

147 and below uses 8 oz gloves

they changed the rule
Cshel86
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 12 2012, 11:13 PM) *
147 and below uses 8 oz gloves

they changed the rule

10 oz for 147 seemed to be mandatory as of the past few years. Im almost sure that guys at 140 wear 10 oz gloves as well. Check out some Bradley's fights, well who knows, maybe those Grant gloves just seem big as hell.
axlfoley
Floyd said the last time he used 10 oz gloves before Cotto was the Hatton fight
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 13 2012, 01:31 PM) *
10 oz for 147 seemed to be mandatory as of the past few years. Im almost sure that guys at 140 wear 10 oz gloves as well. Check out some Bradley's fights, well who knows, maybe those Grant gloves just seem big as hell.



grant gloves are big as hell
Hotsauce
QUOTE (axlfoley @ May 13 2012, 05:05 PM) *
Floyd said the last time he used 10 oz gloves before Cotto was the Hatton fight



yea and that was in 07

axlfoley
in Nevada, 8 oz gloves are optional for a fight at the 140 and 147 limits. they can be used if both fighters agree to it. otherwise it's 10 oz
Franchize
10 oz AND they're Grant? No wonder there was no knock down.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 11 2012, 06:51 PM) *
The reason Floyd sells so much is he understands that people love a bad guy, they pay every time hopeing he gets his head knocked off. Aside from being a great fighter, he is a master promoter


ok. mellow.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 11 2012, 08:01 PM) *
Um.. I didn't mean to unleash your demons Haha. That other site sounds harsh
But anyway I know for a fact I've heard it on hbo more than once, I've heard numerous reports, and the reason I don't think it "shook boxing to its core" as you put it is because people seem to not give a shit about what pac gets away with. Whether its he's cheating on his wife running scams or his head growing three hat sizes, and no its not just the Justin beiber hair cut. It doesn't surprise me that no one paid attention to this issue


i watch, read and listen to everything boxing. i have not seen it mentioned in a single article....not heard it mentioned on any telecast.....i'm going to need sources.

i think they are strategically avoiding it.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 11 2012, 11:14 PM) *
It's been said on HBO, and again, I read it somewhere else, but that article is sure to be in no man's land by now. As for that glove size for 140 and up, I believe it is because I've seen guys like Bradley fight with them several times, along with other fighters. Now, it could be a contractual thing, but from what I remember being mentioned, 140 and up had to use them, and I believe that rule went into effect a few years ago.


I believe that mentioned it before one of Pac's fights...could have easily been the De La Hoya fight when they did the Tale of the Tape. I just heard it being mentioned on HBO.


Doesn't Floyd's people do the same? Now if the circumstances that you speak of, have something to with his opponents' weight being screwed around with, then I agree. Could Manny's people be compensated, or is Manny just getting ripped off?


Then why are you asking us "where are we getting this from?" If anything, I would like to know where some of your past info came from. Now you're about to make me go back and look for this info...


my info is all from careful observation, speculation and personal experience. i do not recall ever hearing anything of the sort mentioned on hbo or any other network or website.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 14 2012, 02:37 PM) *
my info is all from careful observation, speculation and personal experience. i do not recall ever hearing anything of the sort mentioned on hbo or any other network or website.

Damn, now you're about to make me go and look for it. laugh.gif I need to do that anyway, videos and articles...though I still believe those articles were catapulted into no man's land.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 14 2012, 03:47 PM) *
Damn, now you're about to make me go and look for it. laugh.gif I need to do that anyway, videos and articles...though I still believe those articles were catapulted into no man's land.


cool. when u find it please post. i suck at finding stuff like that. laugh.gif
Run and Gun Game Calls
Dude whats with all of the excuse making coming out of the Mayweather camp? The dude fought a great fight, and for the most part dominated a very game Cotto. Floyd has nothing to be ashamed of.

But all I have heard since the fight are excuses as to why he lost a couple of rounds.

1. He was having hand trouble

2. He was sick

3. He wanted to knock cotto out but decided to stand and fight instead of box.

Cotto did do alot better than I expected, or alot of people expected him to do, But Floyd to his credit sucked it up and outworked and outfought Cotto. The damage control coming out of the May camp seems almost like it was a very close fight or Floyd Lost. The dude got hit a few times, it doesnt diminish what Floyd did at all.

If Floyd does lose a fight I really dread the amount of excuses that will follow if this is an example of what we can expect.

I just dont get the damage control
mrchitown
I don't see it as damage control at all when your stating facts.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ May 14 2012, 06:48 PM) *
Dude whats with all of the excuse making coming out of the Mayweather camp? The dude fought a great fight, and for the most part dominated a very game Cotto. Floyd has nothing to be ashamed of.

But all I have heard since the fight are excuses as to why he lost a couple of rounds.

1. He was having hand trouble

2. He was sick

3. He wanted to knock cotto out but decided to stand and fight instead of box.

Cotto did do alot better than I expected, or alot of people expected him to do, But Floyd to his credit sucked it up and outworked and outfought Cotto. The damage control coming out of the May camp seems almost like it was a very close fight or Floyd Lost. The dude got hit a few times, it doesnt diminish what Floyd did at all.

If Floyd does lose a fight I really dread the amount of excuses that will follow if this is an example of what we can expect.

I just dont get the damage control


u know....i can't believe i'm going to say this....but i agree with u.

when u win....there's no need for excuses. i criticized pac for the same thing when he spoke on his leg cramps.

difference here....i had pac winning 4 rounds max. floyd definitely won his fight.
Run and Gun Game Calls
My thing is, Floyd is 35, and if nothing else was wrong...Floyd is 35. Nothing to be ashamed of. He did a great job.
axlfoley
regarding glove size in the state of nevada:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=3365846

http://boxing.nv.gov/Promoter%20Web/PROMLISTWEB.pdf

it's on page 5

daprofessor
QUOTE (axlfoley @ May 15 2012, 01:04 AM) *


good shit. thanks.
daprofessor
watched the fight again....i get why some would call that fight a draw. i also feel it was much closer than cotto was given credit for. i counted punches in some of the rounds to see how accurate compu-box really is...and i must say that they are truly full of shit and a tool for hbo's spin. in a round where cotto was only given credit for landing 4 shots...i counted 20-25 shots that landed cleanly on the body or head. mayweathers numbers were inflated as well. lampley, merchant and steward have no dignity or shame and are very full of shit. hbo is in the business of manufacturing champions. boxing is at its' best when u let the chips fall where they may. i enjoy hbo fights much more with the volume down. i know what it is i am seeing...i don't need some bullshit talking heads with an agenda to tell me what i am seeing. FUCK U HBO!!!

Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 20 2012, 09:10 PM) *
watched the fight again....i get why some would call that fight a draw. i also feel it was much closer than cotto was given credit for.o tell me what i am seeing.

Anybody that had the nerve to call this fight a draw, obviously knows nothing about boxing and need their eyes checked. Cotto just did better than what everybody expected, but for people to even consider the fight close or a draw, should be ashamed of themselves.

When I was watching it drunk, I thought the fight a bit close. Mind you...I was DRUNK. laugh.gif After getting my faculties in order and watching it again, I only gave Miguel 2 rounds...and the rounds that he did win, were close rounds.

I agree that he landed more shots than IncompetentBox recorded, but again, that scoring system is all jacked anyway.
mrchitown
Fight wasn't anywhere near a draw. if somebody wanted to give 7-5 Mayweather, I'd respect that but that's being generous. The best he really could get is 8-4 in favorof Mayweather. He was getting outboxed the first 2 rounds of that fight and the duration of the match Mayweather invited Miguel in and beat him where he should of had the advantages. Anybody who scored this fight a draw loses respect in my opinion. I don't give credit for doing btter then expected or bloody noses. He lost this fight and it was a CLEAR decision win for Mayweather
Franchize
The rounds Floyd won were clear wins. Cotto only had 2 clear rounds. I think the most you can give him is 4 rounds. I gave him 3. The 6th, 8th and 10th. The 10th was sketchy though.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 20 2012, 11:07 PM) *
Anybody that had the nerve to call this fight a draw, obviously knows nothing about boxing and need their eyes checked. Cotto just did better than what everybody expected, but for people to even consider the fight close or a draw, should be ashamed of themselves.

When I was watching it drunk, I thought the fight a bit close. Mind you...I was DRUNK. laugh.gif After getting my faculties in order and watching it again, I only gave Miguel 2 rounds...and the rounds that he did win, were close rounds.

I agree that he landed more shots than IncompetentBox recorded, but again, that scoring system is all jacked anyway.


i often wonder if the judges are intoxicated during fights. there needs to be sobriety and vision tests given to judges prior to them scoring bouts. i believe it takes a certain level of intelligence and the ability to focus to score a fight. i don't believe most judges have the attention span or understanding necessary to score bouts. i believe that everyone is influenced by jim, larry and manny during the bouts, whether they choose to acknowledge it or not. that includes fans watching...and those sitting ringside. i can't tell u how many times i talk to fans and hear them reiterate some bullshit larry merchant spewed during a fight. i know what it is i am seeing. i don't need a talking head to spin it for me.

there are several factors that go into scoring bouts. clean punching, effective aggressiveness, defense, ring generalship...

most times...judges will score for the aggressor. i don't always agree with that...especially when the aggressor misses a lot of punches. in the case of this bout though, both guys missed plenty of punches. cotto was putting intelligent pressure on floyd and cutting the ring off effectively which ended with floyd on the ropes for the majority of the fight. both had plenty of partially blocked shots...and both landed clean ones. most of cotto's clean shots were to the body but u can't deny that he hit mayweather cleanly to the head more than any of mayweathers previous opponents. floyd landed some good head shots...but his right was partially blocked most times. his left uppercut was the one that started to land towards the end of the bout. the commentary gave cotto very little credit for anything he did. the judges and "incompetent-box" also seemed to do the same. there is no way i can justify only giving cotto two rounds. you are giving him very little credit. i would suggest turning down the volume and score with ur eyes...not ur ears or heart. i gave cotto 5 rounds. it's pointless now...but i should have done a thread where i score it round by round with explanations. it seems to be the norm where ppl just accept injustice. i'm not saying cotto won...but he clearly didn't get the scores he deserved. incompetent scoring is what's bad for the sport and turns fans away. this was not the biggest crime in the sport. bouts like cloud/campillo and lara/williams put this one to shame. watching the bout live...i scored it 8-4 for floyd. watching it a second time i scored it 7-5 for floyd.
sduck
Scoring the fight for the judges would be different than us scoring it on TV, because you get more height and angles on TV, plus replay.

Also, most judges score for the aggressor, like Harold Lederman's unofficial scoring, because they're just lazy, and don't want to actually add up whats landing clean or not.
daprofessor
QUOTE (sduck @ May 21 2012, 04:55 PM) *
Scoring the fight for the judges would be different than us scoring it on TV, because you get more height and angles on TV, plus replay.

Also, most judges score for the aggressor, like Harold Lederman's unofficial scoring, because they're just lazy, and don't want to actually add up whats landing clean or not.


i get that....but i still feel the judges are incompetent.
bnoles4life
I wouldn't want to see it. I mean, why? What is Cotto going to do differently? On that night, he fought as well, IMO, as I've seen him in a looooooooooong time and he got buzzed and lost by a pretty significant (read: definitive) margin. What will we see differently and more importantly, what will Cotto do differently?
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 21 2012, 02:38 PM) *
i often wonder if the judges are intoxicated during fights. there needs to be sobriety and vision tests given to judges prior to them scoring bouts. i believe it takes a certain level of intelligence and the ability to focus to score a fight. i don't believe most judges have the attention span or understanding necessary to score bouts. i believe that everyone is influenced by jim, larry and manny during the bouts, whether they choose to acknowledge it or not. that includes fans watching...and those sitting ringside. i can't tell u how many times i talk to fans and hear them reiterate some bullshit larry merchant spewed during a fight. i know what it is i am seeing. i don't need a talking head to spin it for me.

there are several factors that go into scoring bouts. clean punching, effective aggressiveness, defense, ring generalship...

most times...judges will score for the aggressor. i don't always agree with that...especially when the aggressor misses a lot of punches. in the case of this bout though, both guys missed plenty of punches. cotto was putting intelligent pressure on floyd and cutting the ring off effectively which ended with floyd on the ropes for the majority of the fight. both had plenty of partially blocked shots...and both landed clean ones. most of cotto's clean shots were to the body but u can't deny that he hit mayweather cleanly to the head more than any of mayweathers previous opponents. floyd landed some good head shots...but his right was partially blocked most times. his left uppercut was the one that started to land towards the end of the bout. the commentary gave cotto very little credit for anything he did. the judges and "incompetent-box" also seemed to do the same. there is no way i can justify only giving cotto two rounds. you are giving him very little credit. i would suggest turning down the volume and score with ur eyes...not ur ears or heart. i gave cotto 5 rounds. it's pointless now...but i should have done a thread where i score it round by round with explanations. it seems to be the norm where ppl just accept injustice. i'm not saying cotto won...but he clearly didn't get the scores he deserved. incompetent scoring is what's bad for the sport and turns fans away. this was not the biggest crime in the sport. bouts like cloud/campillo and lara/williams put this one to shame. watching the bout live...i scored it 8-4 for floyd. watching it a second time i scored it 7-5 for floyd.

Yeah judges dont clearly score rounds, and all of that "scoring blood" and "effective aggression" is a bunch of bullshit too. They were giving Manny rounds in his last fight for "effective aggression", but there were several rounds where he couldn't maintain that aggression because he was getting turned and countered. He was so busy trying to prove to the ref that he was headbutted (when his cut occurred), rather than fighting back.

Lederman's card are right just as often as Im right when Im in a drunken argument...hardly ever. As for Cotto winning 5 rounds, I can respectfully agree to disagree. If anything, he won 3 rounds, but to say 4 or 5 is a stretch...he just did better than most expected...which is why I feel he knocked Floyd down a peg.

The fact that Miguel was upset after the fight was a bit baffling...hopefully he was upset about the scores, because he surely cant think that he won that fight. He gave the first few rounds away, and the fact that Floyd was throwing combinations THAT early in a fight is very telling.

I agree with the body shots, but again, it's hard to look good against this guy. You can look good against Manny (as several have proven), but they aren't going to give it to you on the cards for obvious reasons. If you hit Mayweather with a punch that doesn't fold him or snap his head back (which most people's eyes are trained to see since he defends well), then 9 out of 10, they'll chalk it up as your punch being "deflected".

Im not for injustice by any stretch of the imagination, but this is boxing, so there's nothing we can do about it. Hell, Salido was beating the dog shit out of Lopez in the rematch and was about to get robbed if he didn't score the KO. If Cotto knew in his heart that he didn't get the scores that he deserved, then fine...but to walk away pouting as if you won the fight, is plain crazy.
daprofessor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 05:34 PM) *
I wouldn't want to see it. I mean, why? What is Cotto going to do differently? On that night, he fought as well, IMO, as I've seen him in a looooooooooong time and he got buzzed and lost by a pretty significant (read: definitive) margin. What will we see differently and more importantly, what will Cotto do differently?


i can write a list for both floyd and cotto on what they could do differently to make the bout easier for each. bottom line...there isn't anyone else out there for floyd after pac loses to bradley. money wise....cotto will be the best option. i think bradley could give floyd some troubles...but i think cotto is better equipped than bradley.

things to consider....

i don't for one second believe floyd "let it be a tough fight to give the fans what they wanted." that's pure bullshit and a slap to cotto's face. i also believe that floyd and cotto will always make for a decent bout. i think cotto is the kind of fighter that pushes floyd to higher heights and brings the best out of him. why not make the rematch?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 21 2012, 06:43 PM) *
Yeah judges dont clearly score rounds, and all of that "scoring blood" and "effective aggression" is a bunch of bullshit too. They were giving Manny rounds in his last fight for "effective aggression", but there were several rounds where he couldn't maintain that aggression because he was getting turned and countered. He was so busy trying to prove to the ref that he was headbutted (when his cut occurred), rather than fighting back.

Lederman's card are right just as often as Im right when Im in a drunken argument...hardly ever. As for Cotto winning 5 rounds, I can respectfully agree to disagree. If anything, he won 3 rounds, but to say 4 or 5 is a stretch...he just did better than most expected...which is why I feel he knocked Floyd down a peg.

The fact that Miguel was upset after the fight was a bit baffling...hopefully he was upset about the scores, because he surely cant think that he won that fight. He gave the first few rounds away, and the fact that Floyd was throwing combinations THAT early in a fight is very telling.

I agree with the body shots, but again, it's hard to look good against this guy. You can look good against Manny (as several have proven), but they aren't going to give it to you on the cards for obvious reasons. If you hit Mayweather with a punch that doesn't fold him or snap his head back (which most people's eyes are trained to see since he defends well), then 9 out of 10, they'll chalk it up as your punch being "deflected".

Im not for injustice by any stretch of the imagination, but this is boxing, so there's nothing we can do about it. Hell, Salido was beating the dog shit out of Lopez in the rematch and was about to get robbed if he didn't score the KO. If Cotto knew in his heart that he didn't get the scores that he deserved, then fine...but to walk away pouting as if you won the fight, is plain crazy.


i totally get why he was upset. the cards didn't reflect his effort. i've never seen anyone land so many clean punches on floyd ever....and make him work so hard. floyd sr knew it would be a tough fight. so did floyd himself. again...i'm not saying floyd didn't win because i thought he did clearly. i guess we'll agree to disagree on the 5 rounds thing. i just believe that if the pac/may fight wasn't looming...those scores might have been a lot closer. i also get the feeling that bradley better put pac to sleep to get the decision on june 9th. laugh.gif
bnoles4life
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 21 2012, 05:44 PM) *
i can write a list for both floyd and cotto on what they could do differently to make the bout easier for each. bottom line...there isn't anyone else out there for floyd after pac loses to bradley. money wise....cotto will be the best option. i think bradley could give floyd some troubles...but i think cotto is better equipped than bradley.

things to consider....

i don't for one second believe floyd "let it be a tough fight to give the fans what they wanted." that's pure bullshit and a slap to cotto's face. i also believe that floyd and cotto will always make for a decent bout. i think cotto is the kind of fighter that pushes floyd to higher heights and brings the best out of him. why not make the rematch?



Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him. I can understand if this was a controversial 7-5 match, but it was a pretty clear win for Floyd. Personally, I think a rematch will be more one-sided, hence, my lack of desire to see it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 08:55 PM) *
Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him.

Oh God, did you just ask for daprofessor for a list? Really? Let's brace ourselves! More than likely, the shit will make sense (as it usually does), and Im really not interested in my opinion being swayed. laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 08:55 PM) *
Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him. I can understand if this was a controversial 7-5 match, but it was a pretty clear win for Floyd. Personally, I think a rematch will be more one-sided, hence, my lack of desire to see it.


i'll just put it this way....cotto has more room for improvement than floyd does imo. meaning....cotto made plenty of mistakes. floyd made him pay for most. if cotto eliminates those mistakes....his chances of winning increase. there is a strong chance floyd was hampered by the bad hand and the cold leading into the fight. it could very well be a much easier fight for floyd...but i think the reverse will be true which is why i would like to see the rematch.

as for the list....i'll hold off on that for now. laugh.gif i don't want cshels opinion to be swayed.
mgrover
I think cotto left upset because he lost not because he thought he won.no matter what happened no matter how hard he fought he still lost and it never feels good
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 24 2012, 07:26 PM) *
I think cotto left upset because he lost not because he thought he won.no matter what happened no matter how hard he fought he still lost and it never feels good


he didn't complain. he didn't protest. he just gave mayweather his props and made absolutely no excuses. that's exactly why i want to see the rematch.
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