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Jack 1000
To start, my thoughts on Jim Lamply:

I have to say in Jim's defense that when he was at HBO 20 years ago, he did not play up to certain fighters like he does now. His illustrations and delivery where articulate, to the point, and focused more on unbiased commentary. Jim tries very hard to generate exciting fights, and when a fight is exciting, he was, and remains a joy to hear.

I wonder if the powers that be at the time, such as Kerry Davis and Ross Greenberg encouraged pom-poming of the fighters that HBO had under contract? Larry Merchant in contrast, told it like it was, most of the time. However, you may recall that he got banned from a telecast once for saying that "Delahoya's entrance music, sucked."

I think when Roy Jones and especially Delahoya came on the scene, the powers that be behind the scenes might have insisted that the name fighter was bigger than the event itself, and I recall that when Lou Dibella was matchmaker, he put on some of the BEST boxing for HBO! Lou was the brain-trust behind the original Boxing After Dark, and the development of brining Gatti to the network with classic wars, just like Erik Morales, Marco Barrera, and Kennedy McKinney. A far cry in contrast of today, when HBO BAD is used as a marketing tool to build up fighters for PPV paydays. House guys like Delahoya still gave shit some of the time, (Campas) and Jones, (Frazier.) and I remember Lou apologizing for the Jones-Frazier shit but said there wasn't anything they could do, because they had to show Roy's fights because he was under contract, regardless of opponent.

Showtime seems to think that quality fights are more important than cheer-leading for a popular name. Don't build up a "future star" with mediocre competition. Just give the fans great two-sided fights. HBO commentary should be exciting more the fights that have two-sided action in the ring, with a good hint of doubt as to who will win before the fight takes place. The problem is, guys like Lamps would OHHH and Ahhh one fighter against a bum, just because it's Delahoya or just because it's Jones.

I also appreciate the effort that HBO commentary and Showtime can be objective when a house fighter gets a decision that they don't deserve. (Williams-Laura-HBO, Cloud-Campillo-Showtime.) This shows that they can be objective when they work at it and the opportunity presents itself.

Jack
daprofessor
jim and larry are horrible. get rid of them.

manny is better when he's with kellerman.

always liked roy.

i miss big george. sad.gif

hbo...please give the fans the option of watching without commentary. i'd be happy with just the crowd and ring noise! smile.gif
Franchize
The guys on Showtime are better. They just lack personality. Tarver and Ward are going to be phenomenal once they quit boxing. I never was a fan of Tarver as a boxer but he's an excellent commentator. Lampley was great when he was neutral. Now that he clearly has an agenda... and that revolving door of idiotic glasses...his commentary has taken a huge hit. Merchant always sucked IMO
bMaK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 04:26 PM) *
jim and larry are horrible. get rid of them.

manny is better when he's with kellerman.

always liked roy.

i miss big george. sad.gif

hbo...please give the fans the option of watching without commentary. i'd be happy with just the crowd and ring noise! smile.gif

Completely agree with everything, especially the Manny comment. Steward has a tendency to let the narrative of the other two guys direct his own opinion, which is a damn shame for a guy that knows as much about the sport as he does. Lost a lot of respect for him myself. Roy and Big George keep shit uncut, fucka PC filter or whatever their partners wanna hear!
Jack 1000
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 03:26 PM) *
jim and larry are horrible. get rid of them.

manny is better when he's with kellerman.

always liked roy.

i miss big george. sad.gif

hbo...please give the fans the option of watching without commentary. i'd be happy with just the crowd and ring noise! smile.gif


That would be a great idea, Professor!

At least an option to watch fights WITHOUT commentary. Just use the second Audio track if its available.

Jack
daprofessor
QUOTE (bMaK @ May 11 2012, 05:04 PM) *
Completely agree with everything, especially the Manny comment. Steward has a tendency to let the narrative of the other two guys direct his own opinion, which is a damn shame for a guy that knows as much about the sport as he does. Lost a lot of respect for him myself. Roy and Big George keep shit uncut, fucka PC filter or whatever their partners wanna hear!


it really is a damn shame. he's a huge disappointment imo. that's why i loved george!
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 11 2012, 05:32 PM) *
That would be a great idea, Professor!

At least an option to watch fights WITHOUT commentary. Just use the second Audio track if its available.

Jack



they did it recently for a round and it was the most pleasant round i've ever watched on hbo. laugh.gif
bMaK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 11 2012, 05:33 PM) *
they did it recently for a round and it was the most pleasant round i've ever watched on hbo. laugh.gif

laugh.gif

They actually tried that in the NFL back in the day. Can't remember if it was the 70's or 80's, but it didn't work out.
BoxingStill#1
HBO has invested interest in certain fighters.

As long as Ive followed boxing Ive noticed this. I can go on and on with fighters who would seem very marketable but have come up short. Its is the JOB of commentators to be a bit bias towards them IMO...

Recent examples:

Chad Dawson- Im sure we can all agree that he was the next big thing, but he was beat hands down by a stong active Pascal. IMO if they fight again it will be the same outcome. The only REAL notable thing he has done to this point is beat an aged Hopkins. He will never peak this. HBO is going to try and milk him along I think. Id be suprised if the Ward fight gets made. Dont get me wrong, he is a solid fighter who is strong fundamentally but I dont think he is as MARKETABLE as the Home Box Office planned. In other words.. he will not be a huge PPV draw.. ..ever..

Amir Khan- HBO has used his ties with Paq to build him initially. He is a huge draw over seas but lets face it folks.. he's no Hatton.. or Calzaghe for that matter.. what really grinds my gears is how even though he lost the fight with Peterson he is still being promoted by HBO (commercials ect.) as the guy to watch. I know Khan is the
draw but Im also like isnt Lamont the champ? ( this prior to recent developments) Khan is a good fighter, but he is marketable mainly. He's loud, opinionated, charismatic, and has a good european following. HBO is definitely bias towards him..

Other names like Broaner (joining the commentary during the fight), Gamboa (hard on his nutts but with his not so entertaining recent fight and no show for Rios HBO kinda backed off I think), Canelo (main driving force right now for upcomming stars)... just to name a few ..

Not to mention that DURING A FIGHT it seems that the main highlighted punches counted are from the favored fighter... this is typical if you are paying attention.

I think Lamply is a bit bias at times,.... Kellerman is getting much better and is becoming better with generating interest with the underdog (non HBO star).. usually Stewart is most accurate but stiil slightly favors the actions of the draw. ..Merchant is starting to slowly kill me.. Im not even gonna comment

I enjoy commentary most of the time.. but typically when I see something going on and they commentary says the same moment later... but often I ask myself "are these guys watching the same fight as me?"
pimpfighterROQ
Pacquiao vs Clottey


"Bang, Bang, Bang! Here I come. Bang Bang!!"

- Jim Lampley


enough said...
Cheesey1
Larry Merchant sounded v. v. creepy when he was describing Canelo's appearance. I always mute him, but since I watched it in the cinema, I couldn't, which was the only bad thing about that evening.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ May 11 2012, 08:06 PM) *
HBO has invested interest in certain fighters.

As long as Ive followed boxing Ive noticed this. I can go on and on with fighters who would seem very marketable but have come up short. Its is the JOB of commentators to be a bit bias towards them IMO...
Recent examples:

Chad Dawson- Im sure we can all agree that he was the next big thing, but he was beat hands down by a stong active Pascal. IMO if they fight again it will be the same outcome. The only REAL notable thing he has done to this point is beat an aged Hopkins. He will never peak this. HBO is going to try and milk him along I think. Id be suprised if the Ward fight gets made. Dont get me wrong, he is a solid fighter who is strong fundamentally but I dont think he is as MARKETABLE as the Home Box Office planned. In other words.. he will not be a huge PPV draw.. ..ever..

Amir Khan- HBO has used his ties with Paq to build him initially. He is a huge draw over seas but lets face it folks.. he's no Hatton.. or Calzaghe for that matter.. what really grinds my gears is how even though he lost the fight with Peterson he is still being promoted by HBO (commercials ect.) as the guy to watch. I know Khan is the
draw but Im also like isnt Lamont the champ? ( this prior to recent developments) Khan is a good fighter, but he is marketable mainly. He's loud, opinionated, charismatic, and has a good european following. HBO is definitely bias towards him..

Other names like Broaner (joining the commentary during the fight), Gamboa (hard on his nutts but with his not so entertaining recent fight and no show for Rios HBO kinda backed off I think), Canelo (main driving force right now for upcomming stars)... just to name a few ..

Not to mention that DURING A FIGHT it seems that the main highlighted punches counted are from the favored fighter... this is typical if you are paying attention.

I think Lamply is a bit bias at times,.... Kellerman is getting much better and is becoming better with generating interest with the underdog (non HBO star).. usually Stewart is most accurate but stiil slightly favors the actions of the draw. ..Merchant is starting to slowly kill me.. Im not even gonna comment

I enjoy commentary most of the time.. but typically when I see something going on and they commentary says the same moment later... but often I ask myself "are these guys watching the same fight as me?"


totally disagree.

their opinions shape the way a casual fan views the fight. they will often have an educated boxing person questioning what they are witnessing. it's pure bullshit. there's no doubt that everyone ringside...judges, officials...everyone....can hear their bullshit and are influenced by them. they ruin boxing imo.
Franchize
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ May 11 2012, 11:05 PM) *
Larry Merchant sounded v. v. creepy when he was describing Canelo's appearance. I always mute him, but since I watched it in the cinema, I couldn't, which was the only bad thing about that evening.

How was that...watching it in the movie theatre? My lil bro went to the movies to watch it too. I can't really get a guage for the experience because I think he went with a bunch of friends just to hit on girls lol

Also, what did you guys think about Lampley's show? I don't know if theres a thread already for it so I figured I'd ask here. I thought it was cool. I didn't like Arum of course though. I felt like he was trying to diss Manny for being devoted to his religion.

QUOTE
their opinions shape the way a casual fan views the fight. they will often have an educated boxing person questioning what they are witnessing. it's pure bullshit. there's no doubt that everyone ringside...judges, officials...everyone....can hear their bullshit and are influenced by them. they ruin boxing imo.


Totally agree! Irresponsible journalism is kiling sports. You see it with Mike Breen and Carmelo Anthony. You see it with HBO with Floyd. You see it with Skip Bayless in every sport. I don't think these people realize how much they impact the casual fans minds. And as sports events become bigger, and casual fans use it as red carpet venues, those fans opinions are being brought to the forefront while the die hard, knowledgeable fans and sitting home wondering WTF theyre talking about.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 14 2012, 01:51 PM) *
I don't know if theres a thread already for it so I figured I'd ask here. I thought it was cool.

Nope, there isn't one open...have at it. I totally missed that shit...hope it's uploaded on youtube by now.

QUOTE (Franchize @ May 14 2012, 01:51 PM) *
I don't think these people realize how much they impact the casual fans minds. And as sports events become bigger, and casual fans use it as red carpet venues, those fans opinions are being brought to the forefront while the die hard, knowledgeable fans and sitting home wondering WTF theyre talking about.

I agree with you and Professor on this matter, but I also agree with Box's point as well. It is their job to build up the next best thing, even if the "next best thing" is one step closer to the shitter (as us hardcore fans can see from a mile away).

They are supposed to make Manny's phantom punches look like Killer Instinct combos (anybody remember that game? Lol), they're supposed to make Sergio look like he makes mid-fight adjustments when in fact, his opponent is simply tired, they're supposed to make Khan look like he's ready for Mayweather, though he still fights like an amateur.

Again, it's the HBO commentators' job to build these fighters up (under false pretenses). You dont hear all of the nuthugging on Showtime, because their roster isn't as stacked as HBO's. You have Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez, Donaire, Chavez Jr., Rios, Margarito, Cotto, Berto, Ortiz, Morales, Hopkins, De La Hoya (used to have him), Mosley, just to name a few. Some of these fighters have fought on Showtime, but they seem to cling to HBO for more exposure.

Showtime on the other end, has pretty good fighters who put on great performances, but the network has to always take the back seat to HBO. Sometimes, they're able to get some of these HBO fighters to fight on the network, depending on open dates and so forth. Right now, HBO seems to have he "megafight" in the bag (if it ever happens), so it would be in their best interest to build as many fighters as they can while the spotlight is still on them.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 14 2012, 02:40 PM) *
Nope, there isn't one open...have at it. I totally missed that shit...hope it's uploaded on youtube by now.


I agree with you and Professor on this matter, but I also agree with Box's point as well. It is their job to build up the next best thing, even if the "next best thing" is one step closer to the shitter (as us hardcore fans can see from a mile away).

They are supposed to make Manny's phantom punches look like Killer Instinct combos (anybody remember that game? Lol), they're supposed to make Sergio look like he makes mid-fight adjustments when in fact, his opponent is simply tired, they're supposed to make Khan look like he's ready for Mayweather, though he still fights like an amateur.

Again, it's the HBO commentators' job to build these fighters up (under false pretenses). You dont hear all of the nuthugging on Showtime, because their roster isn't as stacked as HBO's. You have Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez, Donaire, Chavez Jr., Rios, Margarito, Cotto, Berto, Ortiz, Morales, Hopkins, De La Hoya (used to have him), Mosley, just to name a few. Some of these fighters have fought on Showtime, but they seem to cling to HBO for more exposure.

Showtime on the other end, has pretty good fighters who put on great performances, but the network has to always take the back seat to HBO. Sometimes, they're able to get some of these HBO fighters to fight on the network, depending on open dates and so forth. Right now, HBO seems to have he "megafight" in the bag (if it ever happens), so it would be in their best interest to build as many fighters as they can while the spotlight is still on them.


typically...showtime doesn't sign any fighters so they have no vested interest in them. it's why i believe they are the home of the upset. they're more inclined to make a compelling match up rather than a favorable one. showtime is how boxing should be done and it's the reason they have been my favorite network for quite some time.

hbo on the other hand reeks of corruption and everything wrong with the sport. it's not very often that u see a bad decision on showtime....but on hbo...it's typical. the commentators don't help either.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 14 2012, 02:52 PM) *
hbo on the other hand reeks of corruption and everything wrong with the sport. it's not very often that u see a bad decision on showtime....but on hbo...it's typical. the commentators don't help either.

Showtime has had it's share of bad decisions recently:
- Cloud/Campillo
- Mares/Agbeko 1
- Lopez/Salido 2 (terrible scorecard before the stoppage)

Well now that I think about it, you're right...its not that often that it happens on Showtime. The above listed, just happened this year. HBO has blown them away, thus far, this year...
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 14 2012, 08:40 PM) *
Showtime has had it's share of bad decisions recently:
- Cloud/Campillo
- Mares/Agbeko 1
- Lopez/Salido 2 (terrible scorecard before the stoppage)

Well now that I think about it, you're right...its not that often that it happens on Showtime. The above listed, just happened this year. HBO has blown them away, thus far, this year...


i didn't say it doesn't happen....just that it is rare. laugh.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 14 2012, 08:44 PM) *
i didn't say it doesn't happen....just that it is rare. laugh.gif

Im pretty sure I gave you credit for your post. I should have ended my recent post with..."HBO has blown them away with bullshit decisions, this year"...
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 14 2012, 08:56 PM) *
Im pretty sure I gave you credit for your post. I should have ended my recent post with..."HBO has blown them away with bullshit decisions, this year"...


oh. ok. thanks. i wasn't looking for credit but i'll take it. smile.gif
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 14 2012, 01:51 PM) *
How was that...watching it in the movie theatre? My lil bro went to the movies to watch it too. I can't really get a guage for the experience because I think he went with a bunch of friends just to hit on girls lol

Also, what did you guys think about Lampley's show? I don't know if theres a thread already for it so I figured I'd ask here. I thought it was cool. I didn't like Arum of course though. I felt like he was trying to diss Manny for being devoted to his religion.



Totally agree! Irresponsible journalism is kiling sports. You see it with Mike Breen and Carmelo Anthony. You see it with HBO with Floyd. You see it with Skip Bayless in every sport. I don't think these people realize how much they impact the casual fans minds. And as sports events become bigger, and casual fans use it as red carpet venues, those fans opinions are being brought to the forefront while the die hard, knowledgeable fans and sitting home wondering WTF theyre talking about.

It was a lot of fun. I've watched Mayweather's last three bouts in the cinema. The first time I saw the boxers on that massive screen was really an experience and the crowd really gets into it and the picture's so f'ing clear.
Sections were cheering for Cotto when he was looking good and then when he got put in his place by Floyd they heard it from some of the Mayweather section. No drama, just a great time with a shit load of boxingfans. Highly, highly recommended.

Sporting commentators are becoming a joke (I only watch espn for FNF, otherwise it just makes me want to vomit). The only guys that I make a point to pay attention to are boxers and trainers. Very rarely do professional commentators who haven't competed in the sport that they're talking about add anything to a boxing match (for me at least). Some of the guys in the U.K, relatively speaking, seem to do a decent job though - not perfect, but relatively speaking, they seem to be less insipid.
I usually mute the Grumpy Old Men, although I'd pick Lampley over Merchant any day of the week.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 14 2012, 07:40 PM) *
Showtime has had it's share of bad decisions recently:
- Cloud/Campillo
- Mares/Agbeko 1
- Lopez/Salido 2 (terrible scorecard before the stoppage)

Well now that I think about it, you're right...its not that often that it happens on Showtime. The above listed, just happened this year. HBO has blown them away, thus far, this year...


Yea,

But at least the scoring in Mares-Agbeko I was fair. It was Russell Mora's hideous bias, corruption, or idiocy, that he allowed Abner to throw anywhere from 60-80 low blow punches with no penalty. At least I have not seen Mora in a lot of big fights since.

Jack
fightscoreollector
Barry Tompkins , Al bernstein and Larry merchant...i think are the best of recent time , wish they could be brought togethere as a team
Franchize
QUOTE (fightscoreollector @ May 15 2012, 03:26 AM) *
Barry Tompkins , Al bernstein and Larry merchant...i think are the best of recent time , wish they could be brought togethere as a team

You're the only person I've ever seen put Larry Merchant and best in the same sentence.

O wait, one time my friend did say "Larry Merchant's old, senile ass retiring would be the best thing to happen to the sport of boxing."
Cshel86
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 15 2012, 02:21 AM) *
Yea,

But at least the scoring in Mares-Agbeko I was fair. It was Russell Mora's hideous bias, corruption, or idiocy, that he allowed Abner to throw anywhere from 60-80 low blow punches with no penalty. At least I have not seen Mora in a lot of big fights since.

Ha! Gotta love it when Jack goes off! You do make great points, and I can only hope to be dialed in to some of this sanctioning body stuff that you know about.
Franchize
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ May 14 2012, 11:43 PM) *
It was a lot of fun. I've watched Mayweather's last three bouts in the cinema. The first time I saw the boxers on that massive screen was really an experience and the crowd really gets into it and the picture's so f'ing clear.
Sections were cheering for Cotto when he was looking good and then when he got put in his place by Floyd they heard it from some of the Mayweather section. No drama, just a great time with a shit load of boxingfans. Highly, highly recommended.

Last THREE fights? Really? Where do you live if you don't mind me asking. I've never known any of his fights to be on the big screen except this last one. I may have to check that out. Sounds awesome.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 15 2012, 11:17 AM) *
Where do you live if you don't mind me asking.

He's from Mars, you aint know? Im sure his answer to your question will be somewhat "other-worldly".
sduck
One thing I do like about Jim Lampley is how enthusiastic he can be about every point in a fight. "Mosley, Mosley, MOSLEY! ANOTHER BIG RIGHT HAND!" You need that kind of enthusiasm, especially for casual viewers.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 15 2012, 08:48 AM) *
Ha! Gotta love it when Jack goes off! You do make great points, and I can only hope to be dialed in to some of this sanctioning body stuff that you know about.


LOL! Oh yea! Some good shit there! (at the sanctioning bodies.) Hahaha! I mean that to be funny and literal too!

Jack
Jack 1000
QUOTE (sduck @ May 15 2012, 11:06 AM) *
One thing I do like about Jim Lampley is how enthusiastic he can be about every point in a fight. "Mosley, Mosley, MOSLEY! ANOTHER BIG RIGHT HAND!" You need that kind of enthusiasm, especially for casual viewers.



Yea,

Some of Jim's best work is calling exciting fights: Ward-Gatti I after round 9" WE TOLD YOU IT MIGHT BE ROUND OF THE YEAR! WHO WOULD OF THOUGHT IT WOULD BE ROUND OF THE CENTURY!!!"

Lamps however bombed on two HUGE fights: Douglas-Tyson. Jim is way too passive here with a fight that changed boxing history! A little more Ward-Gatti round 9 screaming might have helped here! However, listen to Col Bob Sheridan's Douglas-Tyson call!!!! It's amazing!!! Comparable to Cosell in Foreman Frazier I's "DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!!! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!"

And Tarver-Jones II, when Antonio had Jones like unconscious with that KO, Lamps just yakked the whole time, spoiling the moment! But those are his only two bad calls in his 25-30 years of fight broadcasting.

Jack
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 15 2012, 01:23 PM) *
Yea,

Some of Jim's best work is calling exciting fights: Ward-Gatti I after round 9" WE TOLD YOU IT MIGHT BE ROUND OF THE YEAR! WHO WOULD OF THOUGHT IT WOULD BE ROUND OF THE CENTURY!!!"

Lamps however bombed on two HUGE fights: Douglas-Tyson. Jim is way too passive here with a fight that changed boxing history! A little more Ward-Gatti round 9 screaming might have helped here! However, listen to Col Bob Sheridan's Douglas-Tyson call!!!! It's amazing!!! Comparable to Cosell in Foreman Frazier I's "DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!!! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!"

And Tarver-Jones II, when Antonio had Jones like unconscious with that KO, Lamps just yakked the whole time, spoiling the moment! But those are his only two bad calls in his 25-30 years of fight broadcasting.
Jack


u cannot be serious!? laugh.gif lamps is notorious for bad calls. how often have we heard..."big right hand!!!!" when absolutely nothing landed? let's not forget the whole "bang, bang, bang..." fiasco. lampley is what's wrong with hbo boxing. so is merchant.
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