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Full Version: Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. vs. Andy Lee Poll and Predictions Thread
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MaxPayne
This fight is on the nearby horizon, so let's hear it ladies and gents !

How do you see this one going down ? Does Chavez Jr.'s win streak continue, or will Lee's skill be too much for him ?

mitukczuk
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Jun 6 2012, 12:46 PM) *
This fight is on the nearby horizon, so let's hear it ladies and gents !

How do you see this one going down ? Does Chavez Jr.'s win streak continue, or will Lee's skill be too much for him ?


I don't see Lee as a particularly skilled boxer, but he sure does have the will to win, which imo Chavez Jr. lacks, although he is undefeated.

However, I feel there is a 50/50 chance for both these guys. I am leaning towards Lee though...just have that feeling, no special reason biggrin.gif
Cshel86
I have to give this one to Julio. I believe the weight will be an issue for Lee to tackle, along with the fact that Chavez can take a punch. Did I mention that the weight advantage is going to be an issue? Lee has fought a bit north of 160, but he's still naturally smaller than Chavez.

I've seen Lee lose to guys with limited skill, like Brian Vera, and go balls to wall with Craig McEwan. The McEwan fight was exciting for what it was worth, but Andy got hit waaaay too much in the fight, against a dude that fought like a Scottish Carlos Maussa, and he predominately land body punches...something Julio wont keep in the holster.

Again, Lee has pretty good skills, but after he gets hit a few times, he loses his shit and starts exchanging (whether its to his advantage or not). He has decent power, but not enough to keep Julio honest in there.

Lee made better adjustments after the McEwan fight, when he fought arch rival Brian Bera, but Vera was shorter than him and I believe he didn't have much reach either. Julio's not short by a long shot, I cant remember the arm length details, and he can take a punch just as much as he can give one.

I had Julio by close decision, based on the strength of Andy banking some early rounds (if he fights smart). When punches are exchanged, we'll see who gets stupid first. If it's Andy, then TKO victory for Julio. If it's Julio, then Andy may be able to adjust enough to keep the fight at his pace.
Cheesey1
The only complete bout of Andy Lee's that I've watched, was against Craig McEwan. My impression of Lee is that he's very well trained, has the fundamentals down pact, but isn't exceptionally talented. Sort of like JCC Jr., but with a better trainer, which has given Lee the upper hand technically.

If my memory serves me, Lee was losing that match, but his comeback that resulted in McEwan getting TKO'd makes him a very credible threat. For me, the only thing that gives JCC Jr. the upper hand is his strength (....thanks to Alex Ariza - see how ungrateful some people are?). If Lee doesn't get hurt, then anything's possible.

Just read CShel's post and I agree with what he said. I picked Chavez by close decision, but that's mostly because even if Lee wins, he's getting jobbed/robbed/Bobfathered etc.
daprofessor
a few years ago i would have picked lee to stop jr. now...i think jr gives it to lee. lee has diminished over the last few years. jr will be too strong and aggressive. i wouldn't be shocked if jr stops lee.
Jack 1000
I can't see Lee winning a decision in Texas no matter what. Chavez by decision, fair or foul. I will vote wide decision-Chavez. because I know that one judge will have it that way for Julio anyway.

Jack
bnoles4life
Jr, by sheer "rough housing". Let's do the math:

He's Mexican

+

Lee is NOT

+

The fight is in Texas

X

Top Rank Promotion
_____________________

= Lee has a better shot at the bronze medal in female gymnastics than a "W" in this fight.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Jun 6 2012, 05:35 PM) *
Jr, by sheer "rough housing". Let's do the math:

He's Mexican

+

Lee is NOT

+

The fight is in Texas

X

Top Rank Promotion
_____________________

= Lee has a better shot at the bronze medal in female gymnastics than a "W" in this fight.


+5!

And to be honest, I have no interest in watching because I think the fix could be in for all Chavez Jr. fights on a decision, unless he's got Sergio as an opponent or some other big money maker to cancel out the Top Rank/Bob Arum favoritism. We have seen this too many times in boxing to think otherwise.

Jack
Cheesey1
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Jun 6 2012, 06:35 PM) *
Jr, by sheer "rough housing". Let's do the math:

He's Mexican

+

Lee is NOT

+

The fight is in Texas

X

Top Rank Promotion
_____________________

= Lee has a better shot at the bronze medal in female gymnastics than a "W" in this fight.


Ha!!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 6 2012, 05:38 PM) *
+5!

And to be honest, I have no interest in watching because I think the fix could be in for all Chavez Jr. fights on a decision, unless he's got Sergio as an opponent or some other big money maker to cancel out the Top Rank/Bob Arum favoritism. We have seen this too many times in boxing to think otherwise.

Jack


I'm not gonna lie, I'll watch this joint, but I sure as hell won't pay for it. However, the moment Jr. starts the rough housing, a.k.a. head in the middle of chest and leaning on him, I'll recognize the writing is on the wall for Lee.
Cshel86
Im not sure how Lee can withstand one of Julio's 185+ lb punches. Those skinny legs of his, that resemble a pair of "Strike Anywhere" matches, will not be much help when those punches land. I surely cant see him backing him up. Lee's best bet is to go to the body (with conviction) or go for the temple.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 6 2012, 09:26 PM) *
Im not sure how Lee can withstand one of Julio's 185+ lb punches. Those skinny legs of his, that resemble a pair of "Strike Anywhere" matches, will not be much help when those punches land. I surely cant see him backing him up. Lee's best bet is to go to the body (with conviction) or go for the temple.

"...that resemble a pair of Strike Anywhere matches"....funny stuff!
Jack 1000
Do you think the judges MIGHT be a bit more fair to Lee in light of the Bradley-Pacquiao decision? (If Lee does well in the fight?) Or do you think there will still be just as much favoritism toward Chavez going in, as if Pacquiao had won? Can boxing afford another robbery, Texas+potential Gale Van Hoy judge+potential Lawrence Cole ref+ have it 118-110 for Chavez Jr on two cards. before the fight even starts type of situation?

My guess is that partial open scoring will be used (but only for the corners after rounds 4 and 8) as a sort of pacifier for the crowd. But remember, open scoring only takes away the symptom of bad judging by eliminating some of the suspense when a decision is read. It does not make judges better or more accountable for their decisions. I firmly believe that.

Jack
Jack 1000
The judges are from the Philippians, Great Britain, and a Texas local. But neutrality goes out the window because Laurence Cole is ref. The WBC's favorite son will favor Chavez Jr, just for breathing! They should have brought in Steve Smoger to ref!

Jack
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 6 2012, 09:26 PM) *
Im not sure how Lee can withstand one of Julio's 185+ lb punches. Those skinny legs of his, that resemble a pair of "Strike Anywhere" matches, will not be much help when those punches land. I surely cant see him backing him up. Lee's best bet is to go to the body (with conviction) or go for the temple.

In addition to what you said, I'm sure that effective movement is part of Lee's game plan (Ha! I'm not exactly saying something that most boxers don't have as part of their strategy already...).
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 13 2012, 07:33 PM) *
Do you think the judges MIGHT be a bit more fair to Lee in light of the Bradley-Pacquiao decision? (If Lee does well in the fight?) Or do you think there will still be just as much favoritism toward Chavez going in, as if Pacquiao had won? Can boxing afford another robbery, Texas+potential Gale Van Hoy judge+potential Lawrence Cole ref+ have it 118-110 for Chavez Jr on two cards. before the fight even starts type of situation?

My guess is that partial open scoring will be used (but only for the corners after rounds 4 and 8) as a sort of pacifier for the crowd. But remember, open scoring only takes away the symptom of bad judging by eliminating some of the suspense when a decision is read. It does not make judges better or more accountable for their decisions. I firmly believe that.

Jack

Re. the judges, dunno, let's see....

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I thought that Bradley/Pacquaio could've gone either way and I still think that.
checkleft
Chavez is probably gonna punish this kid. I'm not taking anything away from lee but no way he's beating chavez the judges the ref and the scale. If he's up and he's taking any sort of punishment I could see the ref stopping it, let's get it straight he's not taking anything on the cards, and chavez will come in north of 180 and will probably skip the drug tests again just to spit in the face of the sport. Btw did we forget who's promoting this? In the words of rjj "Yall musta forgot!"

Chavez by late Tko or decision (gift or not)
Cshel86
It was just brought to my attention that FREDDIE ROACH trained Craig McEwan when he fought Lee last March. Lee was on the ride of his life in that fight until he landed those shots towards the end that stopped McEwan.

Guess who's training Chavez for this fight...who else? Yep you got it...Mr. Roach. It was also brought back to my attention that Chavez did have it out with Bob about that contract extension that was being shoved down in his throat...cant remember if he excepted or not.

With that said, Bob may possibly fuck Chavez like he did Manny last weekend...you know how the Bobfather gets when you dont roll with his campaign, he plays the victim with hurt feelings and leaves you in a world of hurt.

I still have Chavez by TKO, but Arum is still an unforgiving person, so who knows...
Hotsauce
some shit is going on this saturday
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jun 14 2012, 05:01 PM) *
some shit is going on this saturday


We may even have shit before Saturday,

According to Fightnews. com, Lee's team requested that both camps have their gloves weighed just to do what they could to keep everything fair. Lee was willing to do so, and did so, but the Texas Commission spokesperson, Robert Tapia said Chavez Jr. did not have to weigh his gloves so he did not:

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/chavez-cam...-request-118438

FUCK THIS SHIT!

Jack
MaxPayne
What's the speculation here ? I'm just curious, because why would they not want to weigh gloves ? Seems pretty simple to me.
sduck
Damn I'm going to be out of town so I might miss this fight. I think Andy Lee can pull off the upset, but then again Chavez camp is trying to get every advantage they can.
checkleft
Hmm weighing gloves? Maybe manny caught on to something? This is a rare request
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 15 2012, 04:21 PM) *
We may even have shit before Saturday,

According to Fightnews. com, Lee's team requested that both camps have their gloves weighed just to do what they could to keep everything fair. Lee was willing to do so, and did so, but the Texas Commission spokesperson, Robert Tapia said Chavez Jr. did not have to weigh his gloves so he did not:

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/chavez-cam...-request-118438

FUCK THIS SHIT!

Jack



wooooooooooooow
Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Jun 15 2012, 05:44 PM) *
What's the speculation here ? I'm just curious, because why would they not want to weigh gloves ? Seems pretty simple to me.

Yep, it's just as simple as giving a thimble-sized amount of blood at ANY GIVEN TIME before a fight...oh wait, it's almost 3 years and counting with no testing...my bad.
Jack 1000
The WBC optional open scoring rule (after round 4 and 8) IS in effect tomorrow night, but as Texas has done in the past, it will be for the corners only. (No public PA announcement.) Freddie Roach opposes it because he thinks it can change the complexion of a fight for the reasons we have talked about in the past. There is a good article here: (Points out the +'s and -'s.) I still oppose it because of its past failures, and you are treating a symptom of a problem, not a cause. I'm not convinced that open scoring will lead to better judging. If a judge has a pre-conceived notion to fuck up a fight. how is ANY form of open scoring going to change his attitude?

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/blog/box_exper...?urn=box,wp1710

Jack
bnoles4life
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 15 2012, 07:28 PM) *
Yep, it's just as simple as giving a thimble-sized amount of blood at ANY GIVEN TIME before a fight...oh wait, it's almost 3 years and counting with no testing...my bad.


Sir, it's talk like that, that will get you banned from the Top Rank Promotions Christmas list.
Cshel86
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Jun 17 2012, 12:03 AM) *
Sir, it's talk like that, that will get you banned from the Top Rank Promotions Christmas list.

I was dropped off of that list a looong time ago. DuBoef got tired of me begging for a promotion from the mail room to an editorial position. After he gave me the run-around a few times, I got pissed and sent his wife pics of him and some financially illiterate busybody co-worker, from a Christmas party a while back.

Needless to say, I was out of a job. FH had a position open, so I took it! Story of my life...
daprofessor
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Jun 15 2012, 05:44 PM) *
What's the speculation here ? I'm just curious, because why would they not want to weigh gloves ? Seems pretty simple to me.


if anyone has worked with foam....it's very easy to figure out why they wouldn't want to weigh the gloves. foam comes in different densities and it's very easy to disguise that under a glove. some foams are much more dense than others and will therefore make a punch feel much harder. the weight will definitely differ. how do i know this? i sometimes work with foams. i have looked into designing my own mitts and studied several pairs of mitts that i have had over the years. u can order custom mitts if u have the money and gloves can be ordered the same way. i'm not suggesting that freddie is cheating...but anything is possible and i would not put it past anyone. gloves should be weighed.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 17 2012, 01:43 PM) *
I was dropped off of that list a looong time ago. DuBoef got tired of me begging for a promotion from the mail room to an editorial position. After he gave me the run-around a few times, I got pissed and sent his wife pics of him and some financially illiterate busybody co-worker, from a Christmas party a while back.

Needless to say, I was out of a job. FH had a position open, so I took it! Story of my life...


laugh.gif
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