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Full Version: Klitchkos - Two of the best HWs Ever?
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pacco_diablo
To me, it's very ironic how once they became champions over 10 years ago the common theme became, "the HW division is not what it used to be." I'm probably going to take some heat for this but I believe that they are indeed two of the best ever. I will admit that they can be very boring to watch, though a majority of their fights do not go the distance, but their technical abilities are absolutely undeniable. They seem to lack the killer instinct only in their personas, and that may be one of the reasons they may never be placed high among the HW all-time list. It's damn near impossible to truly envision moving a fighter into a past generation but I'd be hard pressed not to believe that they could hold their own through any part of the past.

If they were American then I really believe that they would be thought much higher of. One thing is for sure, history is going to be much more kind to them than we are.

I just have to give respect where it is due. IMO, there is STILL no one out there who can beat either one of them, though I would be curious to see how Tyson Fury would hold up, if only from a size perspective.
Plah
For me, Vitali is one of the best HW's ever. Wlad is very good too but not at that level.
pacco_diablo
That could be debated... lol.

Too bad they couldnt just duke it out. That would be their only shot at PPV numbers... not that they care.
mgrover
meh, the arguement that there fighting a division that isn't worth shit and they simply dominate with there size.
Megadeth
This is funny because I was just thinking of starting a topic about how unimpressed I am. Lets look at Vitali's recent activity.

He is now scheduled to fight the ever dangerous Manuel Charr... this fight is ridiculous, can we not find someone more qualified.
Before this fight he fought Dereck Chisora, and what did Dereck do to deserve this fight, well he lost to Helenius (Which i know was questionable) Prior to that he beat a guy who was 19 - 43 and before that lost to tyson fury.
Before chisora was adamek, who stood no chance of defeating Vitali, way too small. Prior to adamek was oldanier solis, who had a record of 17-0.

I am sorry but this does not impress me one bit. I know the heavyweight division sucks right now...but cmon, there has to be better compeitition than this.

As for my good buddy Wlad...He just got done beating two former cruiserweights. Mormeck is too small and sucks, he had no chance. Haye, well i thought he had a chance and was looking forward to that fight, but the fact is he did nothing. Musta been the broken toe...ugh. Wlad always seems to sneak his revenge in against people who beat him or did well when they are on the downside of their career. The fact is Sam Peter and Lamon Brewster were both spiraling downhill when Wlad gave them a rematch. Rahman was washed up by the time Wlad got to him.


Looking at it, both of these guys fight ok compeition, but they seem to fight guys who were good and are going down, or up and coming fighters who are not ready to step into the right with them yet. Solis was decent but at 17-0 he was not ready. THe Klitschko's have definately benefitted from great matchmaking.

I realize they did beat some decent fighters. Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers, Calvin Brock, Jameel McCline, Chris Arreola. But none of these guys who they beat are A+ fighters, hell most of them arent even A fighters, I would say A- to B+. And these are the better names off of their resume that I picked. Chris Byrd was good, but just too small.

I am just not feeling it. Anyone that either of the Klitschko's have beaten I honestly feel would have been beaten by any of the real HW champs from the 70's, 80's or 90's. And chances are these champs would have beaten them much more convincingly. I do not think that either of these brothers prime vs prime would have beaten Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, Holmes, etc.

They are dominating in a weak division. And the most skilled and best competition they have beaten, are fighters that should be in the cruiserweight division.
daprofessor
aside from their size...and the money they make....nothing about them is impressive to me. for all the advantages they have....they do not fight like the big men they are. too passive for my taste. i wasn't a fan of lennox either.
The Original MrFactor
Funny... These guys fight like the giants they are. they deftly use their size and reach advantages to dominate their opponents. If they fought small and allowed themselves to be hit, then they run the risk of being exciting. Ask Paul Williams how that style worked out for him against Martinez the 2nd time around. These guys fight the way many of us wish paul Williams would have fought and they are criticized for it. These guys dominate any era of heavyweight fighting in my opinion. Sure they went through growing pains and got a few ugly losses, but once they each hit their prime and understood their advantages, they dominated EVERYONE.

The only heavyweight that would likely beat them is Lennox Lewis. He had and understood those advantages as well. lewis is a good barometer to how the Klits would have done against the great crop of the 90's because he fought in a similar style and beat every man he faced. Riddick Bowe in his prime would have given them trouble as well. Size and reach do matter. If used properly(which the Klits are good at) you can dominate a smaller foe in a boxing ring. Boxing is designed that way.
pacco_diablo
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 5 2012, 03:02 PM) *
Funny... These guys fight like the giants they are. they deftly use their size and reach advantages to dominate their opponents. If they fought small and allowed themselves to be hit, then they run the risk of being exciting. Ask Paul Williams how that style worked out for him against Martinez the 2nd time around. These guys fight the way many of us wish paul Williams would have fought and they are criticized for it. These guys dominate any era of heavyweight fighting in my opinion. Sure they went through growing pains and got a few ugly losses, but once they each hit their prime and understood their advantages, they dominated EVERYONE.

The only heavyweight that would likely beat them is Lennox Lewis. He had and understood those advantages as well. lewis is a good barometer to how the Klits would have done against the great crop of the 90's because he fought in a similar style and beat every man he faced. Riddick Bowe in his prime would have given them trouble as well. Size and reach do matter. If used properly(which the Klits are good at) you can dominate a smaller foe in a boxing ring. Boxing is designed that way.


Could not agree more. Plus, it's entirely possible that Vitali could have beaten Lewis had his eyeball not almost fell out.
daprofessor
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 5 2012, 03:02 PM) *
Funny... These guys fight like the giants they are. they deftly use their size and reach advantages to dominate their opponents. If they fought small and allowed themselves to be hit, then they run the risk of being exciting. Ask Paul Williams how that style worked out for him against Martinez the 2nd time around. These guys fight the way many of us wish paul Williams would have fought and they are criticized for it. These guys dominate any era of heavyweight fighting in my opinion. Sure they went through growing pains and got a few ugly losses, but once they each hit their prime and understood their advantages, they dominated EVERYONE.

The only heavyweight that would likely beat them is Lennox Lewis. He had and understood those advantages as well. lewis is a good barometer to how the Klits would have done against the great crop of the 90's because he fought in a similar style and beat every man he faced. Riddick Bowe in his prime would have given them trouble as well. Size and reach do matter. If used properly(which the Klits are good at) you can dominate a smaller foe in a boxing ring. Boxing is designed that way.


u don't have to fight small or allow urself to be hit to be exciting. they can still sit on the back foot...still enjoy their size and reach advantage but be a little more aggressive with foot pressure and their punches. they'd put ppl to sleep the right way....by ko instead of boredom.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 5 2012, 03:31 PM) *
u don't have to fight small or allow urself to be hit to be exciting. they can still sit on the back foot...still enjoy their size and reach advantage but be a little more aggressive with foot pressure and their punches. they'd put ppl to sleep the right way....by ko instead of boredom.



Well don't they have like the highest KO ratio's per fight as compared to anyone who ever laced em up?
BrutUalBK
Even though the Klits are fighting in a bum era they are still dominating in impressive fashion and for that they will and deserve credit but to try to place them as two of the best HWs ever, naaaawwww!!

They're just the best of this generation after Lennox, Tyson, Foreman and old Holyfield left/got shot, I don't think they would've beaten the likes of Frazier, Ali, Holmes, Tyson and a few others in their primes.
Megadeth
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 5 2012, 10:19 PM) *
Well don't they have like the highest KO ratio's per fight as compared to anyone who ever laced em up?


Yes they do, but that is against people who either should not have been in the ring with them (under 20 wins)...or cruiserweights who moved up.
The fact is their competition has sucked.
To say they would have dominated any era, what is that based on? What A+ fighter have they fought and beaten? The fact is Wlad has lost to B level competition on more than one occasion, and this was when he was pretty much in his prime.
I know they use their size advantage and everything, but to think that someone like frazier, foreman, tyson,etc wouldnt have gotten around that is crazy IMO. Wlad would have melted like a popsicle on a hot summer day if he fought tyson. Vitali would have held up better but i cannot see either one of them lasting in a Great HW division.
If you drop these two brothers in the 60's, 70's HW division I do not think they would have even come close to dominating, they would have been dominated.
Their compeition speaks for itself. The very first time I watched Wlad fight was when he fought Charles Shufford. Holy Shit...During the damn introduction Charles knees were shaking, I was afraid he was gonna shit himself on the spot.
daprofessor
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 5 2012, 10:19 PM) *
Well don't they have like the highest KO ratio's per fight as compared to anyone who ever laced em up?


do they? i never watch long enough to see the ko. i usually fall asleep around the 4th or 5th round. laugh.gif
wolterb
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 5 2012, 03:02 PM) *
Funny... These guys fight like the giants they are. they deftly use their size and reach advantages to dominate their opponents. If they fought small and allowed themselves to be hit, then they run the risk of being exciting. Ask Paul Williams how that style worked out for him against Martinez the 2nd time around. These guys fight the way many of us wish paul Williams would have fought and they are criticized for it. These guys dominate any era of heavyweight fighting in my opinion. Sure they went through growing pains and got a few ugly losses, but once they each hit their prime and understood their advantages, they dominated EVERYONE.


i agree...i think they undoubtedly beat any namebrand champions of pre-90s. if they fought any other way they'd get knocked out; they know exactly how to use their reach and height to prevent being overwhelmed by an aggressive opponent. then they just pick em apart slowly. klitschkos don't like a fast pace - probably why they don't have a large following
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