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Cshel86
I've been hearing guys all over the place, that are hoping for these big fantasy matchups and so forth. Nothing wrong with that, but guys are putting this "shit stamp" on boxing because these fights aren't happening. Imagine if these big fights happen to take place prematurely, then what?

Anyway, Im more surprised at the fact that I've hardly heard a PEEP when Chavez/Martinez was announced. Why is that? Do people believe it could possibly get cancelled? People's asses were hurting because that fight wasn't being made, and now that it's made, well you know the rest....a bunch of silence.

Back to my initial question though, what's up with people rushing these "fantasy" fights, so to speak? Guys are already throwing Gary Russell to the lions and he's hardly fought anybody. I keep hearing stuff about Gamboa/Broner, Donaire/Gamboa, and a few other fights.

Check this out....guys want these big fights IMMEDIATELY "like they did back in the days", but nobody wants to see guys clean out the division anymore. Stuff like that makes me question whether or not guys are true boxing fans. Believe it or not, fighters were cleaning out the divisions back in the day, but people are so fixated on the big fights, that they forget that part.

Boxing is a business, yeah I know, that phrase is old and drawn out, but if people continue to rush these big fights for the sake of getting a "fix", then there wont be shit left look forward to. When you're able to see fighters grow, then you get results like Ortiz/Lopez, which puts a bigger spin on things and makes it more interesting.

Should we be getting these "big fights" that most people demand, or should we remain consistent fans and understand the business side ( rolleyes_anim.gif ) while making the most of what is offered to us?
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 13 2012, 10:54 AM) *
I've been hearing guys all over the place, that are hoping for these big fantasy matchups and so forth. Nothing wrong with that, but guys are putting this "shit stamp" on boxing because these fights aren't happening. Imagine if these big fights happen to take place prematurely, then what?

Anyway, Im more surprised at the fact that I've hardly heard a PEEP when Chavez/Martinez was announced. Why is that? Do people believe it could possibly get cancelled? People's asses were hurting because that fight wasn't being made, and now that it's made, well you know the rest....a bunch of silence.

Back to my initial question though, what's up with people rushing these "fantasy" fights, so to speak? Guys are already throwing Gary Russell to the lions and he's hardly fought anybody. I keep hearing stuff about Gamboa/Broner, Donaire/Gamboa, and a few other fights.

Check this out....guys want these big fights IMMEDIATELY "like they did back in the days", but nobody wants to see guys clean out the division anymore. Stuff like that makes me question whether or not guys are true boxing fans. Believe it or not, fighters were cleaning out the divisions back in the day, but people are so fixated on the big fights, that they forget that part.

Boxing is a business, yeah I know, that phrase is old and drawn out, but if people continue to rush these big fights for the sake of getting a "fix", then there wont be shit left look forward to. When you're able to see fighters grow, then you get results like Ortiz/Lopez, which puts a bigger spin on things and makes it more interesting.

Should we be getting these "big fights" that most people demand, or should we remain consistent fans and understand the business side ( rolleyes_anim.gif ) while making the most of what is offered to us?

I love big matchups as much as the next guy, but you know that I appreciate a good boxing match, no matter who's fighting. So, I'm not in the big fights immediately camp.
Jovi
It doesn't seem as exciting , like for Donaire's fight (or any prospect of that caliber) you KNOW he is supposed to win but its just how well he will look against the fighter. You don't really lose anything losing to another top fighter compared to losing to a no name fighter and having to rebuild after that.

I respect the business side of it and wanting to build your name, but it seems like it would be easier if the fighter came out beating whoever was put in front of them, and doing it while calling out big names. If you feel like you're the best fighter then you should show it, by fighting someone who may be better than you. As a fan its always fun to not be entirely sure on who will win.

If top fighters dont wanna fight eachother, there's gonna be cases like Jon Jones and Anderson Silva not wanting to fight eachother out of respect and not hurting the other's legacy. === Lame for fans


All i can think about during this post is Hagler KOing Hearns..Maybe some should stay away from others lol
Franchize
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 13 2012, 10:54 AM) *
I've been hearing guys all over the place, that are hoping for these big fantasy matchups and so forth. Nothing wrong with that, but guys are putting this "shit stamp" on boxing because these fights aren't happening. Imagine if these big fights happen to take place prematurely, then what?

Anyway, Im more surprised at the fact that I've hardly heard a PEEP when Chavez/Martinez was announced. Why is that? Do people believe it could possibly get cancelled? People's asses were hurting because that fight wasn't being made, and now that it's made, well you know the rest....a bunch of silence.

Back to my initial question though, what's up with people rushing these "fantasy" fights, so to speak? Guys are already throwing Gary Russell to the lions and he's hardly fought anybody. I keep hearing stuff about Gamboa/Broner, Donaire/Gamboa, and a few other fights.

Check this out....guys want these big fights IMMEDIATELY "like they did back in the days", but nobody wants to see guys clean out the division anymore. Stuff like that makes me question whether or not guys are true boxing fans. Believe it or not, fighters were cleaning out the divisions back in the day, but people are so fixated on the big fights, that they forget that part.

Boxing is a business, yeah I know, that phrase is old and drawn out, but if people continue to rush these big fights for the sake of getting a "fix", then there wont be shit left look forward to. When you're able to see fighters grow, then you get results like Ortiz/Lopez, which puts a bigger spin on things and makes it more interesting.

Should we be getting these "big fights" that most people demand, or should we remain consistent fans and understand the business side ( rolleyes_anim.gif ) while making the most of what is offered to us?

Cshel when you're right you are right...and this time...once again, you are right lol. There are plenty of preliminary fights, that are barn burners, to be made before we get the huge blockbuster.

#1 It heightens the suspense. Let's face it. Floyd only fights once a year. It's frustrating, but at the same time, it makes seeing him fight much more exciting. The anxiety of the card builds. Sometimes you can't have too much of a good thing.

#2 It makes fights PROVE THEMSELVES!!! Guys get thrust into megafights and lose. Then ppl look back and say "they're a tomato can." No, they just didn't acquire the championship quality resume that warrants a top billing.
daprofessor
it happens all the time.

anyone remember some of these potential matches that never got made????

pac/valero

pac/guzman

guzman/valero

soto/pac

campbell/pac

campbell/guzman.....

i can go on forever with it...but i think the point is, matches the fans want never get made. this is just an example of a recent era but u can do it with any era...watch this:

norris/trinidad

trinidad/quartey

trinidad/lopez

dlh/lopez

dlh/forrest

dlh/winky

all fights cannot be made for several reasons. also, the fighters themselves would not last if they took on tough fight after tough fight. look at guys like trinidad and morales....they blazed serious trails and seemingly took on all comers. those are rare instances in boxing. sometimes ppl don't even realize them while they're happening. i didn't realize whitakers' brilliance until the chavez fight. i was so busy complaining about why he had not been matched up with camacho. i remember hearing a story about how camacho had put it on whitaker in sparring...so i really wanted to see that fight. i think i held it against whitaker and as a result i missed/misjudged some of his brilliant performances. these days...as i have matured...i've learned to appreciate the matches that have been made. sometimes we know up front that a certain fight is going to be great...i.e. castillo/corrales....sometimes fights don't live up to expectations....i.e. bradley/alexander...whatever the case, i take it all in stride and take time to smell the roses. like the song says..."these are the good times!"
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 13 2012, 08:19 PM) *
all fights cannot be made for several reasons. also, the fighters themselves would not last if they took on tough fight after tough fight. look at guys like trinidad and morales....they blazed serious trails and seemingly took on all comers. those are rare instances in boxing. sometimes ppl don't even realize them while they're happening. i didn't realize whitakers' brilliance until the chavez fight. i was so busy complaining about why he had not been matched up with camacho. i remember hearing a story about how camacho had put it on whitaker in sparring...so i really wanted to see that fight. i think i held it against whitaker and as a result i missed/misjudged some of his brilliant performances. these days...as i have matured...i've learned to appreciate the matches that have been made. sometimes we know up front that a certain fight is going to be great...i.e. castillo/corrales....sometimes fights don't live up to expectations....i.e. bradley/alexander...whatever the case, i take it all in stride and take time to smell the roses. like the song says..."these are the good times!"

I hear ya! Those series of fighting animals takes a toll on you, and evidenced by Morales' run in the sport. Im just glad that Morales is still able to hang with these younger guys, not many can do that.

You're right though, its rough on the body and most of these delicate fighters nowadays (the ones that contemplate retirement after 1 loss...bunches of wimps). And yes, some fights dont add up to our expectations, especially if they're inked prematurely. What ever happened to a Mosley/Trinidad fight? I know Mosley was nice guy throughout his career and got fucked (money wise) because of it, so maybe thats the case. Any idea why it never happened?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 13 2012, 09:19 PM) *
I hear ya! Those series of fighting animals takes a toll on you, and evidenced by Morales' run in the sport. Im just glad that Morales is still able to hang with these younger guys, not many can do that.

You're right though, its rough on the body and most of these delicate fighters nowadays (the ones that contemplate retirement after 1 loss...bunches of wimps). And yes, some fights dont add up to our expectations, especially if they're inked prematurely. What ever happened to a Mosley/Trinidad fight? I know Mosley was nice guy throughout his career and got fucked (money wise) because of it, so maybe thats the case. Any idea why it never happened?


winky wright is what happened.
Cshel86
^^^That answers it all.

Seriously though...I've been seeing and hearing guys talk about a Mayweather/Garcia fight. Really? C'mon man! Stop it! Dude just won a great fight, but that doesn't call for a Mayweather fight. Lol
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 18 2012, 10:44 AM) *
^^^That answers it all.

Seriously though...I've been seeing and hearing guys talk about a Mayweather/Garcia fight. Really? C'mon man! Stop it! Dude just won a great fight, but that doesn't call for a Mayweather fight. Lol


he just beat the guy who was being talked about as the next opponent for floyd...why not?

i'd rather see cotto/floyd 2....but this would work too.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 18 2012, 02:06 PM) *
he just beat the guy who THOUGHT he was the next opponent for floyd...why not?

i'd rather see cotto/floyd 2....but this would work too.

There you go Professor, I fixed it for you. cool.gif
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 13 2012, 09:54 AM) *
I've been hearing guys all over the place, that are hoping for these big fantasy matchups and so forth. Nothing wrong with that, but guys are putting this "shit stamp" on boxing because these fights aren't happening. Imagine if these big fights happen to take place prematurely, then what?

Anyway, Im more surprised at the fact that I've hardly heard a PEEP when Chavez/Martinez was announced. Why is that? Do people believe it could possibly get cancelled? People's asses were hurting because that fight wasn't being made, and now that it's made, well you know the rest....a bunch of silence.

Back to my initial question though, what's up with people rushing these "fantasy" fights, so to speak? Guys are already throwing Gary Russell to the lions and he's hardly fought anybody. I keep hearing stuff about Gamboa/Broner, Donaire/Gamboa, and a few other fights.

Check this out....guys want these big fights IMMEDIATELY "like they did back in the days", but nobody wants to see guys clean out the division anymore. Stuff like that makes me question whether or not guys are true boxing fans. Believe it or not, fighters were cleaning out the divisions back in the day, but people are so fixated on the big fights, that they forget that part.

Boxing is a business, yeah I know, that phrase is old and drawn out, but if people continue to rush these big fights for the sake of getting a "fix", then there wont be shit left look forward to. When you're able to see fighters grow, then you get results like Ortiz/Lopez, which puts a bigger spin on things and makes it more interesting.

Should we be getting these "big fights" that most people demand, or should we remain consistent fans and understand the business side ( rolleyes_anim.gif ) while making the most of what is offered to us?



Welll Cshel there was a time not long ago when fighters weren't afraid of losing and step up to take on the big named fighters as early as having 20 pro fights (Vargas, Floyd and a few others come to my mind) but nowadays we have fighters like Chavez who quitely pad their records with the next Bum of the Month fighters while protecting their hides from being scraped across the canvas.

Guys like Tito Trinidad wasn't afraid to go away and then come back and take on the big named fighters without even having a tune-up most of the time, many of today's fighters pale by comparison to some of the guys from back in the day when they fought as much as 2-3 times a month-----today we're fortunate to see fighters fight that many times in a year>>>especially the popular fighters.

Like everyone else though I'm glad the fights are happening because better late than never I guess.
Cshel86
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 18 2012, 02:37 PM) *
Welll Cshel there was a time not long ago when fighters weren't afraid of losing and step up to take on the big named fighters as early as having 20 pro fights (Vargas, Floyd and a few others come to my mind) but nowadays we have fighters like Chavez who quitely pad their records with the next Bum of the Month fighters while protecting their hides from being scraped across the canvas.

Guys like Tito Trinidad wasn't afraid to go away and then come back and take on the big named fighters without even having a tune-up most of the time, many of today's fighters pale by comparison to some of the guys from back in the day when they fought as much as 2-3 times a month-----today we're fortunate to see fighters fight that many times in a year>>>especially the popular fighters.

Like everyone else though I'm glad the fights are happening because better late than never I guess.

Thanks man, you and Professor always drop some good stuff. I do remember the late 90's and early 00's days when guys all took on each other...guys like OLDH, Hoppkins, Mosley, Mayorga, Trinidad, Spinks, Vargas, and a few others.

Im guessng that I got used to guys waiting to fight each other nowadays, because most of the named fighters were ticket sellers, unlike most of the guys we have now, who need to built up.

If Im not mistaken, those from waaaay back in the days used to fight often because they were fighters and nothing more. I dont believe was much "Al Haymon's my manager, so I'll fight soft touches for big money" going on back then.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 18 2012, 01:32 PM) *
There you go Professor, I fixed it for you. cool.gif


laugh.gif

khan's ppl were supposedly in talks with al haymon. i think there was something to that. so now that danny whoop that ass....he deserves mention at the very least.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 18 2012, 02:39 PM) *
Thanks man, you and Professor always drop some good stuff. I do remember the late 90's and early 00's days when guys all took on each other...guys like OLDH, Hoppkins, Mosley, Mayorga, Trinidad, Spinks, Vargas, and a few others.

Im guessng that I got used to guys waiting to fight each other nowadays, because most of the named fighters were ticket sellers, unlike most of the guys we have now, who need to built up.

If Im not mistaken, those from waaaay back in the days used to fight often because they were fighters and nothing more. I dont believe was much "Al Haymon's my manager, so I'll fight soft touches for big money" going on back then.


don't believe the hype!!!

trinidad wasn't a ticket seller before he knocked out maurice blocker. imagine if blocker had used that reason not to fight him. trinidad became a ticket seller because he was exciting. that's how it's done.

that "al haymons my manager...." comment doesn't apply to al's guys....just berto in the beginning.

paul williams fought everybody that would fight him...

arreolla fought some of the better guys and got rushed to the top and lost to the best guy at heavy...

forrest never fought soft touches...

tarver's resume is a 'who's who' in boxing...

danny garcia just beat the number 1 guy at 140...

russell and broner are just starting so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.



Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 18 2012, 03:46 PM) *
laugh.gif

khan's ppl were supposedly in talks with al haymon. i think there was something to that. so now that danny whoop that ass....he deserves mention at the very least.

Understood. Hell, before the Peterson fight, I had Khan being next on Floyd's list. He had everything going for him...a decent U.S. fan base, a great U.S. fan base, his team, and he was the money man at 140. I was just waiting for him to move up to WW and have a meaningful fight around this time, and have one by the end of the year, then hopefully Floyd would've accepted.

Sad thing is, he's lost two meaningful fights in a division that I dont even believe he can effectively make the weight for anymore. It's almost like wrecking a car with a full tank of gas...you've filled it up, thinking that you'll drive it til its empty, but end up wrecking it to no return.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 18 2012, 02:39 PM) *
Thanks man, you and Professor always drop some good stuff. I do remember the late 90's and early 00's days when guys all took on each other...guys like OLDH, Hoppkins, Mosley, Mayorga, Trinidad, Spinks, Vargas, and a few others.

Im guessng that I got used to guys waiting to fight each other nowadays, because most of the named fighters were ticket sellers, unlike most of the guys we have now, who need to built up.

If Im not mistaken, those from waaaay back in the days used to fight often because they were fighters and nothing more. I dont believe was much "Al Haymon's my manager, so I'll fight soft touches for big money" going on back then.



While I particularly do not think this comment in bold you made should point to Floyd as an example (don't forget Pac fought many of his leftovers sometimes years and beatdowns afterwards) but I get your point.

Floyd was actually one of the guys who fought and took on top level competition especially early in his career and often. I can use better examples like Chavez Jr.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 18 2012, 03:52 PM) *
don't believe the hype!!!

trinidad wasn't a ticket seller before he knocked out maurice blocker. imagine if blocker had used that reason not to fight him. trinidad became a ticket seller because he was exciting. that's how it's done.

that "al haymons my manager...." comment doesn't apply to al's guys....just berto in the beginning.

paul williams fought everybody that would fight him...

arreolla fought some of the better guys and got rushed to the top and lost to the best guy at heavy...

forrest never fought soft touches...

tarver's resume is a 'who's who' in boxing...

danny garcia just beat the number 1 guy at 140...

russell and broner are just starting so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Trinidad was exciting (as you said), and thats all that matters. I dont remember the blocker fight, so I cant speak on it. You're right, Williams and Forrest rarely fought guys below they're skill level. As for Arreolla, I stand on point. He was on FNFs for a while, had a few HBO dates, then BOOM, here comes a Klitschko fight. I'll also stick to my word with Broner and GRJr, maybe it's Broner's attitude about being the best and he's hardly fought anybody. Berto had a few decent fights (Urango, Rivera (back in the day), Collazo, Ortiz, Zaveck).

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 19 2012, 02:18 PM) *
While I particularly do not think this comment in bold you made should point to Floyd as an example (don't forget Pac fought many of his leftovers sometimes years and beatdowns afterwards) but I get your point.

Floyd was actually one of the guys who fought and took on top level competition especially early in his career and often. I can use better examples like Chavez Jr.

Agreed!
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