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Full Version: Ward-Dawson vs. Martinez-Chavez Jr. Who gains more from a victory?
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Gambit808
Though the P4P list is known to be mythical, it still holds merit to fans (in the sense) of Dominance & Accomplishment from fighters... oh and as well as popularity too. If you notice most P4P list have Sergio Martinez in front of Andre Ward. There are also Top 10 Lists you can find that have Chad Dawson On it & most (if not all) lists that DON'T Have Chavez Jr. in the top 10. So it begs the question(s):


1. If Chavez Jr. Beats Martinez does that place him in front of the Ward-Dawson winner?

2. Who gains more success from there victory, Ward, Dawson, Martinez or Chavez Jr.?
BigFightFan
Chavez has the most star(ppv) potential, so if he wins the sky is the limit for him
checkleft
The only winners on here from my perspective would be Dawson and chavez. Because if ward or Martinez win I doubt they will get much credit
Gambit808
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Aug 1 2012, 07:14 PM) *
Chavez has the most star(ppv) potential, so if he wins the sky is the limit for him

Definitely, to you who gains more in terms of respect?
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Aug 1 2012, 06:04 PM) *
Though the P4P list is known to be mythical, it still holds merit to fans (in the sense) of Dominance & Accomplishment from fighters... oh and as well as popularity too. If you notice most P4P list have Sergio Martinez in front of Andre Ward. There are also Top 10 Lists you can find that have Chad Dawson On it & most (if not all) lists that DON'T Have Chavez Jr. in the top 10. So it begs the question(s):


1. If Chavez Jr. Beats Martinez does that place him in front of the Ward-Dawson winner?

2. Who gains more success from there victory, Ward, Dawson, Martinez or Chavez Jr.?



1. NO
2. Ward gains more because he is taking on the LHW Champion and in essence fighting the bigger man, who some already have in their P4P that is also a young fighter with a long career ahead of him whereas JLC Jr is fighting someone who is actually smaller, older and probably does not have much longevity left in this sport. Should Martinez win then most will say it was expected from a guy who is fighting at his best weight that he's dominated for awhile now and he'd either have to move up to SMW to fight Ward or someone else in order to prove his greatness which cannot be done against smaller fighters like Floyd and Pac.

Dawson would basically be looked at in the same way as Martinez, a bigger P4P fighter beating a smaller fighter, nothing really to gain but everything to lose.
Gambit808
QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 1 2012, 07:33 PM) *
The only winners on here from my perspective would be Dawson and chavez. Because if ward or Martinez win I doubt they will get much credit

Martinez Will get credit if he beats a cruiser-weight Chavez Jr. we seen look incredible in his last couple fights. Martinez is not only fighting a kid in his prime but he will more than likely be fighting an over sized kid in his prime that can take a punch, with all the fame there is to gain from a Chavez victory can be taken away by Martinez and i can see nothing less than success from either with a victory.

checkleft
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Aug 1 2012, 06:48 PM) *
1. NO
2. Ward gains more because he is taking on the LHW Champion and in essence fighting the bigger man, who some already have in their P4P that is also a young fighter with a long career ahead of him whereas JLC Jr is fighting someone who is actually smaller, older and probably does not have much longevity left in this sport. Should Martinez win then most will say it was expected from a guy who is fighting at his best weight that he's dominated for awhile now and he'd either have to move up to SMW to fight Ward or someone else in order to prove his greatness which cannot be done against smaller fighters like Floyd and Pac.

Dawson would basically be looked at in the same way as Martinez, a bigger P4P fighter beating a smaller fighter, nothing really to gain but everything to lose.

I have ward ahead of Dawson on my list, and even though I dont see it this way, people could say Dawson was drained.

QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Aug 1 2012, 06:49 PM) *
Martinez Will get credit if he beats a cruiser-weight Chavez Jr. we seen look incredible in his last couple fights. Martinez is not only fighting a kid in his prime but he will more than likely be fighting an over sized kid in his prime that can take a punch, with all the fame there is to gain from a Chavez victory can be taken away by Martinez and i can see nothing less than success from either with a victory.

I got you but I mean if Martinez wins most people will look at it as of he was picking on chacha. But if chavez puts up a good fight he will probably move up a notch and Martinez will still be stuck in limbo land between mayweather and pac and even scarier than before to anyone near his division.
Gambit808
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Aug 1 2012, 07:48 PM) *
1. NO

so the term "to be the man you have to beat the man" doesen't hold court. If a non top 10 fighter were 2 knock off lets say a Floyd Mayweather, does he not replace him as #1?
Cshel86
Chavez will be the biggest winner in this situation. Out of the 4, he has the most star potential (as someone just mentioned). If Dawson beats Ward, it will make big noise in the boxing community, and the same goes for an undefeated Ward if he beats Dawson.

As for Chavez/Martinez...Chavez will only get bigger when he beats Sergio. If Sergio wins, then he upsets an unforgiving apple cart here. Sergio's old, and no one is really trying to pump too much into his image at this point, and Chavez on the other hand, his team has BIG plans for him. A loss for Sergio may actually help him, I know that sounds crazy...
BoxingStill#1
Chavez by far imo.

For all the points mentioned above
mgrover
watch dawson be drained to fuck on fight night. i wouldn't class this really as an impressive win for him, unless he ruins Dawson like pac did vs de la hoya, since Dawson hasn't been that low in 6 years, do I expect this to be competitive? well we'll see how he looks drained.

while I'd like Martinez to win, it depends really on a few things, including how he handles it if JCC jr. takes his punches with ease, how he reacts to JCC jr. punches, and how crooked are the judges on fight night.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Aug 1 2012, 07:35 PM) *
Definitely, to you who gains more in terms of respect?

Again I have to go with Chavez, because most see him as a untested cherry picker
BigDDatHomey
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Aug 1 2012, 09:50 PM) *
Again I have to go with Chavez, because most see him as a untested cherry picker


Chavez, no doubt about it. Out of all, Chavez has the least amount of real talent. He will stand in there, work hard, and beat you down though. Martinez is certainly a huge stepping stone.
haqtiq
Honestly, I don't see how beating an "Olympic Gold Medalist" is something the USA/World shouldn't take heed to. I think the biggest winner here if they win is C. Dawson. Again.. this isnt some regular guy in Ward.. this dude represented the USA, and brought home the gold.. and he's facing ANOTHER fighter whom didn't win anything on the greatest stage in the world, yet has a very good chance to steal the spotlight. Gonna be a headbanger and I can't wait.
Plah
Chavez has more to gain. In terms of respect I have to go with Dawson. Ward is a beast.
anthonyaccurate
QUOTE (haqtiq @ Aug 1 2012, 11:06 PM) *
Honestly, I don't see how beating an "Olympic Gold Medalist" is something the USA/World shouldn't take heed to. I think the biggest winner here if they win is C. Dawson. Again.. this isnt some regular guy in Ward.. this dude represented the USA, and brought home the gold.. and he's facing ANOTHER fighter whom didn't win anything on the greatest stage in the world, yet has a very good chance to steal the spotlight. Gonna be a headbanger and I can't wait.



this isnt the Olympics....and whats the point you are making in the bolded area?
chad dawsons the ltheavyweight champion, in pro boxing thats a pretty big deal
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 1 2012, 08:43 PM) *
watch dawson be drained to fuck on fight night. i wouldn't class this really as an impressive win for him, unless he ruins Dawson like pac did vs de la hoya, since Dawson hasn't been that low in 6 years, do I expect this to be competitive? well we'll see how he looks drained.

while I'd like Martinez to win, it depends really on a few things, including how he handles it if JCC jr. takes his punches with ease, how he reacts to JCC jr. punches, and how crooked are the judges on fight night.


I dont think it bothers him much, I mean Kelly was taking his punches well until he got cut and barker was taking them too until his eardrum got busted but what really does seem to bother him is a good jab. Cause I'm pretty sure chacha isn't gonna try to counter so if he just covers up he will get swarmed when his guard is up but if he uses a good jab he could keep him at bay.

I'm also interested to see how much punishment chacha can take, because he looked pretty busted up against Rubio and sergio seems have more speed and power than Rubio. Hw usually gets his stoppages because of the acumulation of punishments late in fights.

So chavez would either have to keep him at bay or swarm and Martinez will try to circle attack when the guard is high and stay on his bike.
Jovi
CHavez needs to look back at some The Margarito vs Martinez tapes. To put martinez down he is going to have to outwork him. Pwill tried, put up a helluva fight too, but judging from chavez's last fight his punches didnt look like they felt good. Ill put chavez's strength and defensive tendencies above Pwill's.. Not going to be an easy fight at all for chavez or martinez, but martinez cant go in like a crazy man with his hands down still getting hit. Ill give chavez credit because he actually fought a top tier opponent, fighting the best usually brings the best out of you unless you cant stand up to it, thats how i see this fight going. Just back to back until one of them just cant go anymore. Chavez has a bigger following so the sky is the limit with him after a win, as for Martinez i see him calling more people because people definitely still wouldn't want to fight him after this haha

I wanna see Winner/winner and loser/loser of the two fights fighter each other. smile.gif just so i dont see no BS matches.

Andre ward vs Chad dawson, honestly im more excited for this fight than any other fight I've probably seen recently. 2 top fighters about to fight in their primes. might not be same weight class, but dawson seemed pretty confident about making the weight. Ward is a gold medalist, no easy feat. Dawson is no scrub, light heavyweight champ definitely for a reason. there wont be much of a height difference but there will be a good reach advantage for dawson. I'm not sure who is faster but if i had to say which i would say andre ward...Going to be a good fight, either win would only be credited by me, because i know how good both of them are, and only the better man will win on that night.

I do see dawson wanting to fight Pascal again to avenge that loss, he really needs to!
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 1 2012, 07:16 PM) *
Chavez will be the biggest winner in this situation. Out of the 4, he has the most star potential (as someone just mentioned). If Dawson beats Ward, it will make big noise in the boxing community, and the same goes for an undefeated Ward if he beats Dawson.

As for Chavez/Martinez...Chavez will only get bigger when he beats Sergio. If Sergio wins, then he upsets an unforgiving apple cart here. Sergio's old, and no one is really trying to pump too much into his image at this point, and Chavez on the other hand, his team has BIG plans for him. A loss for Sergio may actually help him, I know that sounds crazy...



if chavez beats martinez watch his next fight be on ppv.
daprofessor
i believe ward/dawson is going to prove who the most skilled figther is at the higher weights and maybe even all of boxing.

chavez winning just increases his popularity/earnings. there are a few fighters out there who will beat him.
Gambit808
QUOTE (Jovi @ Aug 2 2012, 01:16 PM) *
I wanna see Winner/winner and loser/loser of the two fights fighter each other. smile.gif just so i dont see no BS matches.

I was definitely thinking the same thing before writing this topic, until I thought about if both Martinez & Dawson lose. I just don't see both guy wanting the fight.
Gambit808
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 2 2012, 02:17 PM) *
i believe ward/dawson is going to prove who the most skilled figther is at the higher weights and maybe even all of boxing.

chavez winning just increases his popularity/earnings. there are a few fighters out there who will beat him.

After seeing that Vanes Martirosyan sparring session with Julio I believe he may be 1 of those fighters you may be referring to.

In terms of respect, which out of the 4 would you give more to with a victory?
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