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Gambit808
After a brief debate with a few PAC-fans at work, a few question stood out that I'd like to share and know your opinion on

Is Pacquiao's next fight a crossroads fight for him?


Can u make the argument, after his last 3 performances that he is the best fighter at the Welterweight division?


Does he belong fighting at Welterweight or should he move down?


Let me read your answers and thoughts.
daprofessor
1. it's a comeback fight. imo...he's coming off of two losses. i can't see him beating bradley, cotto or floyd....rios is his best option.

2. he was never the best at 147.

3. he should retire.

Cshel86
Good stuff Gambit! Honestly, due to Manny's fucked up business decisions made by his team and promoter, everything from this point will look like a "crossroads" fight, or one foot out of the door.

The Mosley fight was his best performance, the Marquez fight didn't help, and his lackluster performance in the Bradley fight (which resulted in a weird outcome) just added insult to injury. NOW, he stuck having to avenge a Bradley loss and an "outdone do-over" with a Marquez fight.

Had business decisions been in order, then he wouldn't seem stuck. Arum totally killed a Mayweather fight for him, and now he's stuck with an old Marquez and a rematch with a still relatively unknown Bradley.

So yes, if he looks bad in his next fight, then Im sure people will come to their senses. I've been questioning his dedication lately, being the fact that he hardly fought for the first 2 mins of every round in the Bradley fight, and pimped his way through the Marquez fight.
leonthegee
Manny should go ahead and shut it down while hes still healthy. His hearts not into it.
mgrover
doesnt seem like he wants it as bad anymore, and maybe that loss might motivate him to beat bradley into the ground, but if it doesn't I don't see much recapturing that old flame. but he's just not the animal he used to be, he's far more composed, sometimes for the better, sometimes for worse.
Gambit808
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 2 2012, 02:15 PM) *
1. it's a comeback fight. imo...he's coming off of two losses. i can't see him beating bradley, cotto or floyd....rios is his best option.

2. he was never the best at 147.

3. he should retire.

1. Do you consider the Rios fight a "give me" fight for Pac, a fight which Rios doesn't stand a chance (other than a punchers chance) of winning so that we see a more vintage PAC to reincarnate that destructive image of him?

2. True

3. I was thinking the same because of his life outside of boxing
BigDDatHomey
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Aug 2 2012, 02:30 PM) *
Manny should go ahead and shut it down while hes still healthy. His hearts not into it.


I agree. If your heart ain't in it, none of those 3 questions matter.
Gambit808
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 2 2012, 02:37 PM) *
doesnt seem like he wants it as bad anymore, and maybe that loss might motivate him to beat bradley into the ground, but if it doesn't I don't see much recapturing that old flame. but he's just not the animal he used to be, he's far more composed, sometimes for the better, sometimes for worse.

That's what I'm thinking, if this loss doesn't make him a more dangerous opponent than before then I don't know if I would need 2 see the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight to know how it would play out.
Gambit808
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 2 2012, 02:28 PM) *
Good stuff Gambit! Honestly, due to Manny's fucked up business decisions made by his team and promoter, everything from this point will look like a "crossroads" fight, or one foot out of the door.

The Mosley fight was his best performance, the Marquez fight didn't help, and his lackluster performance in the Bradley fight (which resulted in a weird outcome) just added insult to injury. NOW, he stuck having to avenge a Bradley loss and an "outdone do-over" with a Marquez fight.

Had business decisions been in order, then he wouldn't seem stuck. Arum totally killed a Mayweather fight for him, and now he's stuck with an old Marquez and a rematch with a still relatively unknown Bradley.

So yes, if he looks bad in his next fight, then Im sure people will come to their senses. I've been questioning his dedication lately, being the fact that he hardly fought for the first 2 mins of every round in the Bradley fight, and pimped his way through the Marquez fight.

Exactly a victim of his own hype. Anything less than a ko/tko win from him at this point probably will be seen as a decline in his status
daprofessor
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Aug 2 2012, 01:46 PM) *
1. Do you consider the Rios fight a "give me" fight for Pac, a fight which Rios doesn't stand a chance (other than a punchers chance) of winning so that we see a more vintage PAC to reincarnate that destructive image of him?

2. True

3. I was thinking the same because of his life outside of boxing


yeah...it restores the aura of invincibility and sets up the mayweather fight. ppl will think "he's back!!!" then he'll get destroyed by floyd.

i don't think it's so much his life outside boxing...i think it's just that they ran out of rethreads that make him look amazing. i think more than anything he benefitted from the planets aligning just right at the right time. couple that with great opponent selection, non-disclosed contract stipulations i.e. rehydration clauses and such...and u have an amazing run to the "top." i was never really sold on his 'greatness' but he did have a pretty nice run.
BoxingStill#1
Say what u want, but he is still perhaps the most exciting fighter to watch win lose or draw..

But I can agree with his next fight being a crossroads for him, not so much with us because we love to watch him fight,.. but moreso with himself..

checkleft
Branding rios sucks. He made his living picking on smaller guys and got completely outclassed by a decent boxer.

I think manny is far from done, arum has him in a headlock.
mrchitown
He's an exciting fighter but like some of you guys have said he's at a crossroads. Like professor said he needs that aura of in invincibility back. And maybe he can restore some public sentiment back in his favor, because now more then ever people are questioning him on some things as far as boxing. Hopefully that fire will return to Manny, because i don't want to see him come back and fight the way he did in the Bradley fight
Cshel86
As Box just mentioned, Manny is still an exciting fighter...though I dont really agree with the way he fought in the Bradley fight. People's eyes are fixed on him brutalizing guys, and we haven't seen that lately. He needs to polish up his skills at this latter stage of his career, so he can compete (box) for a full 12 rounds and maintain that "ring generalship" that he unjustly gets credit for.

If he demolishes a guy over the course of 12 rounds, then he's back in the game. Any more struggles in fights, then people will think otherwise. Hell, I got waaaay to used to seeing him brutalize guys, and I must admit, it was fun to watch!
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 3 2012, 09:41 AM) *
As Box just mentioned, Manny is still an exciting fighter...though I dont really agree with the way he fought in the Bradley fight. People's eyes are fixed on him brutalizing guys, and we haven't seen that lately. He needs to polish up his skills at this latter stage of his career, so he can compete (box) for a full 12 rounds and maintain that "ring generalship" that he unjustly gets credit for.

If he demolishes a guy over the course of 12 rounds, then he's back in the game. Any more struggles in fights, then people will think otherwise. Hell, I got waaaay to used to seeing him brutalize guys, and I must admit, it was fun to watch!


he's still an exciting fighter against the right opponent. i've been saying it for years...he does best when fighters stand right in front of him and want to trade...but when they give him movement and slickness that excitement goes right out the window. i don't believe he's changed much. u use more energy missing punches than u do landing. that would explain his inactivity for 2 and a half minutes of every round.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 3 2012, 02:26 PM) *
he's still an exciting fighter against the right opponent. i've been saying it for years...he does best when fighters stand right in front of him and want to trade...but when they give him movement and slickness that excitement goes right out the window. i don't believe he's changed much. u use more energy missing punches than u do landing. that would explain his inactivity for 2 and a half minutes of every round.

Professor...you ALWAYS find an intelligent way to tell me that I need to think about shit before I post it. laugh.gif Maybe I just felt kinda bad about his luck in fights lately, and caught myself reminiscing about his glory days, so to speak.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 3 2012, 02:52 PM) *
Professor...you ALWAYS find an intelligent way to tell me that I need to think about shit before I post it. laugh.gif Maybe I just felt kinda bad about his luck in fights lately, and caught myself reminiscing about his glory days, so to speak.


sorry. laugh.gif i'm not trying to give u shit...just trying to keep the conversation going. smile.gif maybe i need a little of the glaucoma medicine or something... laugh.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 3 2012, 08:08 PM) *
sorry. laugh.gif i'm not trying to give u shit...just trying to keep the conversation going. smile.gif maybe i need a little of the glaucoma medicine or something... laugh.gif

LOl, nah you're good. I learn a lot of shit from you, so no hard feelings there. cool.gif

I saw how Gesta fought last night, vividly reminded me of Manny. Dude (Manny) needs a challenging fight, not that Bradley wasn't a challenge, he just didn't take him seriously.
mgrover
heres a theory, maybe he thinks everyone he's fighting is beneath him, I think the only fight we'd see him back to his old ways is Mayweather cause there on par, yes technically there not, but as names there on par in the boxing world and even the world, and every fight I see them take seems like a waste of time at times.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 2 2012, 03:20 PM) *
yeah...it restores the aura of invincibility and sets up the mayweather fight. ppl will think "he's back!!!" then he'll get destroyed by floyd.

i don't think it's so much his life outside boxing...i think it's just that they ran out of rethreads that make him look amazing. i think more than anything he benefitted from the planets aligning just right at the right time. couple that with great opponent selection, non-disclosed contract stipulations i.e. rehydration clauses and such...and u have an amazing run to the "top." i was never really sold on his 'greatness' but he did have a pretty nice run.

Agree.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 4 2012, 02:39 PM) *
heres a theory, maybe he thinks everyone he's fighting is beneath him, I think the only fight we'd see him back to his old ways is Mayweather cause there on par, yes technically there not, but as names there on par in the boxing world and even the world, and every fight I see them take seems like a waste of time at times.

Plausible, but doubtful. Mayweather definitely doesn't underestimate his foes.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 2 2012, 01:15 PM) *
1. it's a comeback fight. imo...he's coming off of two losses. i can't see him beating bradley, cotto or floyd....rios is his best option.

2. he was never the best at 147.

3. he should retire.



1. AGREED!!
2. TOTALLY TRUE!!
3. I do not agree, he stiill has fight left in him but not against slick boxers or counterpunchers. Pac needs to be matched with guys who come straight-forward like David Diaz, Ricky Hatton, MargoCHEATo and bums like that who make him look more sensational than he really is.

Rios would be a style that'll fit Pac's style, keep him away from intelligent boxers and counterpunchers and everyone will start believing that he is the best again at WW, I won't but they will be duped into it again by Bob Arum and his slick promotions and forked tongue.
Franchize
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Aug 2 2012, 02:11 PM) *
After a brief debate with a few PAC-fans at work, a few question stood out that I'd like to share and know your opinion on

Is Pacquiao's next fight a crossroads fight for him?


Can u make the argument, after his last 3 performances that he is the best fighter at the Welterweight division?


Does he belong fighting at Welterweight or should he move down?


Let me read your answers and thoughts.


1. No, from a competitive stand point. What I do think will happen is that he will no longer be able to draw fans of all demographics regardless of who he's fighting. Floyd often says "I can fight anyone and people are gonna pay." I think if Manny has a ho-hum performance again, this statement will only apply to Filipinos. (No offense of course to them) He'll always have the support of his fellow countrymen but I think the days of selling out with a tomato can in front of him are over.

2.Only if Floyd is no longer at Weleterweight lol. I don't think any other welterweight has impressed enough to solidify themselves as being clearly better outside of Floyd, even if Manny has been less than stellar lately.

3.He SHOULD move back down but I don't think he can. I don't think he can make the weight. Are you talking like 140 or further than that?
Gambit808
QUOTE (Franchize @ Aug 7 2012, 12:14 PM) *
1. No, from a competitive stand point. What I do think will happen is that he will no longer be able to draw fans of all demographics regardless of who he's fighting. Floyd often says "I can fight anyone and people are gonna pay." I think if Manny has a ho-hum performance again, this statement will only apply to Filipinos. (No offense of course to them) He'll always have the support of his fellow countrymen but I think the days of selling out with a tomato can in front of him are over.

2.Only if Floyd is no longer at Weleterweight lol. I don't think any other welterweight has impressed enough to solidify themselves as being clearly better outside of Floyd, even if Manny has been less than stellar lately.

3.He SHOULD move back down but I don't think he can. I don't think he can make the weight. Are you talking like 140 or further than that?

1. Yea, and I think the Mexican crowd won't abandon him until there fighters get a piece of him... He was a mexicutioner in his early career let not forget.

2. Wow! Lol, are you saying that no one at welterweight (147) can beat Pacquiao? (outside of Bradley of coarse)

3. 140
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 4 2012, 12:33 PM) *
LOl, nah you're good. I learn a lot of shit from you, so no hard feelings there. cool.gif

I saw how Gesta fought last night, vividly reminded me of Manny. Dude (Manny) needs a challenging fight, not that Bradley wasn't a challenge, he just didn't take him seriously.


yeah...i heard about gesta from some of my filipino friends and when i finally saw him in the gym, i was completely underwhelmed. nothing special about him at all. very beatable and should avoid decent boxers at all costs. laugh.gif

i think he too bradley serious...he just didn't have answers for what they did. the sad part....bradley revealed his plan during the open media workout and they still had no answer for it. jmm showed the blueprint to beat him. he still hasn't learn to cut a ring. he still relies on his explosiveness...still head hunts way too much. i can't see him winning his next fight unless it's against someone like rios.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 4 2012, 01:39 PM) *
heres a theory, maybe he thinks everyone he's fighting is beneath him, I think the only fight we'd see him back to his old ways is Mayweather cause there on par, yes technically there not, but as names there on par in the boxing world and even the world, and every fight I see them take seems like a waste of time at times.


i think if and when that fight finally happens....so many ppl will be shocked and thoroughly disappointed when pac gets his ass handed to him pretty much in the same fashion arturo gatti (rip) got it. pac has never been on floyds level. i have loss ALL interest in that fight back when jmm schooled him in their last fight. bradley put the nails in the coffin imo. pac will never see the levels he was on before. i enjoyed the ride. i feel sorry for his fans who have already been devastated. they'll cling on to the glory days for as long as they can. it's all kind of sad really. it's the end of an era.
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