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Cshel86
Okay guys, don't laugh at me, but I just thought about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on how the fight would go, though Im sure most would give it to Ward easily. Maybe. Maybe not.

My biggest question is, how could their promoters put a huge spin on things and make this into a HUGE fight over the course of a year? I mean, Ward is big in the boxing world, but not so much with casual fans. Chavez is going to be big (that's what they're working towards), due to his name, if he can keep winning.

This would no doubt, be somewhat of a breakout fight for Ward, in regards to the world knowing who he is. The lifting is in the hands of Chavez's team...maybe a fight with Kelly Pavlik and some other notable name at 168 by the end of next year. He does have a pretty busy schedule, so it can be done...maybe May '14, if Ward stays at 68.

What are you guys' thoughts on the popularity of this fight? Fight results?

Oh yeah...Chavez is going to beat Sergio. cool.gif
Gambit808
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 17 2012, 07:49 PM) *
Okay guys, don't laugh at me, but I just thought about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on how the fight would go, though Im sure most would give it to Ward easily. Maybe. Maybe not.

My biggest question is, how could their promoters put a huge spin on things and make this into a HUGE fight over the course of a year? I mean, Ward is big in the boxing world, but not so much with casual fans. Chavez is going to be big (that's what they're working towards), due to his name, if he can keep winning.

This would no doubt, be somewhat of a breakout fight for Ward, in regards to the world knowing who he is. The lifting is in the hands of Chavez's team...maybe a fight with Kelly Pavlik and some other notable name at 168 by the end of next year. He does have a pretty busy schedule, so it can be done...maybe May '14, if Ward stays at 68.

What are you guys' thoughts on the popularity of this fight? Fight results?

Oh yeah...Chavez is going to beat Sergio. cool.gif

I like this idea and could see this fight being huge in a couple years or so if all goes well.

Wus interesting right now with the 2 in terms of pound for pound is, if both men win there fights, technically Chavez jr. would probably jump in front of Ward on some lists being that he's facing Martinez who is pound 4 pound #3 and Ward is facing Dawson whom on most list is #9/10.

All in all I think they'd make a killing building up this fight especially if both men remain undefeated until that time. Of coarse the comparison of Hagler-Hearns will be thrown in there but I think this fight would more or less resemble Chavez-Taylor, but please don't quote me on that.
Jimmy
Mismatch.Easy work for SOG.
mrchitown
If Ward decides to stay at SMW, I could see this being a big fight. I think I'd take Ward by UD. JCC jr has minimal defense but I attribute this to his 1 dimensional trainer. Also, JCC jr's biggest advantage so far in his career is that he walks into the ring with an excessive weight advantage. Granted he can take a punch but I need to see him get tagged by a legit 168 pounder before I consider him for a fight with Ward.

The skills that Ward has will carry him against JCC jr. He's crafty and he digs down and does what ever is necessary to get that W. When JCC jr gets to 168, I'm interested to see how they match him up. I wouldn't be surprised if they spoon feed him like they've done in the past, until he proves he can handle those upper echelon fighters. I don't see him being a threat to many at 168, especially not Ward. If I was a matchmaker, I'd keep him away from athletic fighters, he's fresh food for those types
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 17 2012, 07:49 PM) *
Okay guys, don't laugh at me, but I just thought about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on how the fight would go, though Im sure most would give it to Ward easily. Maybe. Maybe not.

My biggest question is, how could their promoters put a huge spin on things and make this into a HUGE fight over the course of a year? I mean, Ward is big in the boxing world, but not so much with casual fans. Chavez is going to be big (that's what they're working towards), due to his name, if he can keep winning.

This would no doubt, be somewhat of a breakout fight for Ward, in regards to the world knowing who he is. The lifting is in the hands of Chavez's team...maybe a fight with Kelly Pavlik and some other notable name at 168 by the end of next year. He does have a pretty busy schedule, so it can be done...maybe May '14, if Ward stays at 68.

What are you guys' thoughts on the popularity of this fight? Fight results?

Oh yeah...Chavez is going to beat Sergio. cool.gif

I'd watch it, but it would be night night for your boy JCC Jr.

The only thing that Chavez is going to beat are Sergio's gloves...with his face.
daprofessor
if they can get past their next opponents...this is the biggest fight for either guy to make. i'll go with ward by ud...but i wouldn't count jr out.
Cshel86
Great points guys!

I just believe that if they have a formidable opponent (Ward) in front of Julio, they (his team, Arum in particular) can make the shit bigger than what its supposed to be. I mean, its not like Chavez Sr. was fighting the best of the best before he shared the ring with Mayweather, Taylor, Randall, Whitaker, and few others.

I feel this situation playing out the same way. Thing is, Julio HAS to beat Sergio (who is considered the best in the MW division) before people can even mention a Ward bout with scoffing. Trust me, if he beats Sergio (which I think he will), then all he has to do is get in there with Pavlik and beat him (close or not).

50 has some business ties with Julio now, and I wouldn't rule out a Dirrell fight. Im not saying that he can beat Dirrell, but if they put him in there (thinking that Dirrell will skunk him) and something goes wrong down the stretch, then why wouldn't they bring up a Ward fight afterwards? We saw how Dirrell/Abraham went.

Honestly, Julio has a bit more star power/potential than Dirrell at this point, so he could bypass him. I mean seriously, whether Julio is an easy check in Ward's pocket or not, Im sure that fight would have "money" written all over it. Who knows if Froch would've ever fought Ward, had it not been for the Super 6, which made it pretty much mandatory that they fight. Who knows.

All Im saying, is that Julio has a big following and Im sure people on his end are PUSHING for him to fight and possibly beat a highly skilled fighter. Not saying that Sergio isn't, but an African American US Olympic Gold Medalist in front of one of Mexico's biggest stars...somebody is dying to see him dethrone Ward, whether its a delusional thought or not.

If Ward is that great (which he is for the most part), then thats an easy check in his pocket and more exposure (which he needs all that he can get). Hell, what if he loses to Dawson, do you think he'll look to a Chavez fight within the next year, if its offered to him? Think about it, Chavez fights about 3-4 times per year...its not that far-fetched if he wants to move up to 168 after this Martinez fight...if he wins.
Franchize
I can't see Sergio flourishing once the fight gets dirty. Not illegal dirty but gritty dirty. When he fight gets rough, and it will, what's sergio going to do? I think it will be a competitive fight though.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 19 2012, 10:12 PM) *
Great points guys!

I just believe that if they have a formidable opponent (Ward) in front of Julio, they (his team, Arum in particular) can make the shit bigger than what its supposed to be. I mean, its not like Chavez Sr. was fighting the best of the best before he shared the ring with Mayweather, Taylor, Randall, Whitaker, and few others.

I feel this situation playing out the same way. Thing is, Julio HAS to beat Sergio (who is considered the best in the MW division) before people can even mention a Ward bout with scoffing. Trust me, if he beats Sergio (which I think he will), then all he has to do is get in there with Pavlik and beat him (close or not).

50 has some business ties with Julio now, and I wouldn't rule out a Dirrell fight. Im not saying that he can beat Dirrell, but if they put him in there (thinking that Dirrell will skunk him) and something goes wrong down the stretch, then why wouldn't they bring up a Ward fight afterwards? We saw how Dirrell/Abraham went.

Honestly, Julio has a bit more star power/potential than Dirrell at this point, so he could bypass him. I mean seriously, whether Julio is an easy check in Ward's pocket or not, Im sure that fight would have "money" written all over it. Who knows if Froch would've ever fought Ward, had it not been for the Super 6, which made it pretty much mandatory that they fight. Who knows.

All Im saying, is that Julio has a big following and Im sure people on his end are PUSHING for him to fight and possibly beat a highly skilled fighter. Not saying that Sergio isn't, but an African American US Olympic Gold Medalist in front of one of Mexico's biggest stars...somebody is dying to see him dethrone Ward, whether its a delusional thought or not.

If Ward is that great (which he is for the most part), then thats an easy check in his pocket and more exposure (which he needs all that he can get). Hell, what if he loses to Dawson, do you think he'll look to a Chavez fight within the next year, if its offered to him? Think about it, Chavez fights about 3-4 times per year...its not that far-fetched if he wants to move up to 168 after this Martinez fight...if he wins.


ward should be the bigger star...but i get the feeling if chavez wins this fight against sergio....his popularity will be through the roof. he'll be in the drivers seat...and i cannot see arum serving him up to someone like ward just yet if that happens. we already know arums' order of operations when it comes to his stars. they wouldn't have taken this fight with martinez if they didn't believe julio would win it. best believe their matchmakers have studied this one thoroughly. dirrell would be a step backwards for chavez..if he's going to move up to 168 look for arum to serve up pavlik like u said. he'll keep things in house...and try to milk chavez for all he's worth.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 20 2012, 04:16 PM) *
ward should be the bigger star...but i get the feeling if chavez wins this fight against sergio....his popularity will be through the roof. he'll be in the drivers seat...and i cannot see arum serving him up to someone like ward just yet if that happens. we already know arums' order of operations when it comes to his stars. they wouldn't have taken this fight with martinez if they didn't believe julio would win it. best believe their matchmakers have studied this one thoroughly. dirrell would be a step backwards for chavez..if he's going to move up to 168 look for arum to serve up pavlik like u said. he'll keep things in house...and try to milk chavez for all he's worth.

From what I remember, a month or two before the Andy Lee bout was signed, Chavez only had a little over a year left on his TR contract. If all goes well by next summer, and he's able to land a Pavlik bout (which is possible), then he will be a big enough attraction and not even need TR anymore.

One of the chief reasons that I believe Arum made the Martinez fight, was because Julio was threatening to sit out his contract and fight in Mexico until it was up. So Arum either made the fight to punish him (in the event that he loses), reward him, or financially punish him by making sure that he never even thinks of asking for more money in his next fight, in the event that he loses to Sergio.

Your reason could be just as accurate or correct, so I wont rule it out. laugh.gif Anyway, Im almost wondering how a Dirrell fight would be a step backwards for Julio. Give me some clarity please, you may see something that I dont see in this case. If anything, I believe that it would be a step up (competition wise) for Chavez and just the opposite for Dirrell.

The reason I threw Dirrell in there, is because he and Ward have close ties (skill wise), and I figured that would be somewhat of a measuring stick to see if Julio would be ready for a Ward fight. I thought that would be one of those TR "throw him in there with a slick black fighter" moves, sort of like they did Manny with the Bradley fight.
mgrover
I think he'd get schooled, i doubt he could even beat Froch let alone Ward
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 20 2012, 07:35 PM) *
From what I remember, a month or two before the Andy Lee bout was signed, Chavez only had a little over a year left on his TR contract. If all goes well by next summer, and he's able to land a Pavlik bout (which is possible), then he will be a big enough attraction and not even need TR anymore.

One of the chief reasons that I believe Arum made the Martinez fight, was because Julio was threatening to sit out his contract and fight in Mexico until it was up. So Arum either made the fight to punish him (in the event that he loses), reward him, or financially punish him by making sure that he never even thinks of asking for more money in his next fight, in the event that he loses to Sergio.

Your reason could be just as accurate or correct, so I wont rule it out. laugh.gif Anyway, Im almost wondering how a Dirrell fight would be a step backwards for Julio. Give me some clarity please, you may see something that I dont see in this case. If anything, I believe that it would be a step up (competition wise) for Chavez and just the opposite for Dirrell.

The reason I threw Dirrell in there, is because he and Ward have close ties (skill wise), and I figured that would be somewhat of a measuring stick to see if Julio would be ready for a Ward fight. I thought that would be one of those TR "throw him in there with a slick black fighter" moves, sort of like they did Manny with the Bradley fight.


i'm just speculating...i could be wrong on all of it. laugh.gif

as for dirrell being a step back...i guess i should have called it high risk/low reward. i agree...dirrell would be a step up in competition...but a win over him wouldn't be something he can hang his hat on. i think chavez would give dirrell a harder fight than both AA and froch.
Plah
Chavez loses badly against Sergio, Froch and Ward.
checkleft
I don't think it would be very competitive honestly. Ward is very good be would crowd counter turn chavez maybe even stop him by accumulation even though I don't think ward hits all that hard. He is a very underrated guy, prob the most complete fighter in the game with mayweather
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 20 2012, 09:23 PM) *
i'm just speculating...i could be wrong on all of it. laugh.gif

as for dirrell being a step back...i guess i should have called it high risk/low reward. i agree...dirrell would be a step up in competition...but a win over him wouldn't be something he can hang his hat on. i think chavez would give dirrell a harder fight than both AA and froch.

I agree. Im just trying to make sense out of making "something out of nothing". If this fight is ever talked up and made into somewhat of a megafight, then I will damn sure email the link to this thread so we can be compensated for it! cool.gif

QUOTE (Plah @ Aug 21 2012, 12:06 AM) *
Chavez loses badly against Sergio, Froch and Ward.

C'mon Plah, your mind is still stuck in 2011. I would've have somewhat agreed with you a year ago, in regards to Chavez losing to Martinez. Not now though. You dont thinkk its a 50/50 fight at this point?

Good ol' Sr. didn't have that many tricks in his bag, he was a basic fighter with a little head movement, a good chin, and nasty body shots...does Jr. remind you of him in any manner? I would say yes.

I wont sit here and say that Julio is a skilled fighter, but he does have the size, chin, body shots, and resolve, to make a decent (if not great) account for himself in the above mentioned fights. Agree? Somewhat?


mgrover
i think people give him too much credit for the andy lee win
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 21 2012, 09:40 AM) *
i think people give him too much credit for the andy lee win


it's not just the andy lee win imo. i look at his last 3 to 4 fights. he's shown very good progression. he's added a jab...some movement and defense...but most of all he's grown into his body and is really rippin' shots. his aggression combined with his ability to take a shot and the fact that he keeps coming the whole fight makes me think he has a chance against most in the division. i know some will say..."but who did he fight?" yeah....manfredo, rubio and lee aren't exactly world beaters...but he did exactly what he should have with all three....he dominated them. will that transfer into a martinez victory? that remains to be seen. all i know is martinez has looked pretty good himself. his ko of williams was the pinnacle imo. his wins over dzinziruk (who was coming off an injury and long layoff) was impressive...but when u consider the circumstances...eh. then his wins over macklin and barker...those were big guys who weren't really aggressive and it took him several rounds to break them down. chavez brings something different to the table. something he's not had to deal with since his last loss....pressure. best believe chavez will cut that ring...and chavez will tax his body. if martinez doesn't get respect early it's going to be a very long night for him.
checkleft
I do agree with your final thoughts professor but I don't with what you said about coming along. The reason he is ripping these shots is because he comes on 20+ pounds heavier then his opponents, not only is he blatantlyridiculing the weight class system in place as chels picture illustrates (him with a ton of food directly after the lee weigh in) he has used performance enhancers, ie diaretics, to either mask a banned substance and also to keep that advantage and fight in a smaller weight class.

Once/if he moves up to super middle he's not gonna have the same advantage and we might see the Arthur Abraham effect if he doesn't polish his boxing skills
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 21 2012, 02:03 PM) *
I do agree with your final thoughts professor but I don't with what you said about coming along. The reason he is ripping these shots is because he comes on 20+ pounds heavier then his opponents, not only is he blatantlyridiculing the weight class system in place as chels picture illustrates (him with a ton of food directly after the lee weigh in) he has used performance enhancers, ie diaretics, to either mask a banned substance and also to keep that advantage and fight in a smaller weight class.

Once/if he moves up to super middle he's not gonna have the same advantage and we might see the Arthur Abraham effect if he doesn't polish his boxing skills


true, but look at his body...he is filling out. he's getting his man strength. i don't know about the p.e.d's or any of that...it's possible....but whatever the case, he's going to be the bigger/stronger guy in the ring against martinez. at this point...AA is not busy enough and doesn't bring the same intensity he had just a few years ago. i'd pick chavez over him at 168. i'd probably pick him over froch as well.
checkleft
By Arthur Abraham syndrome I meant his strength and physical attributes wouldn't transfer over to 168.. I could be wrong but after the super six I'm pretty sure that's the reason Abraham went back to 160
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 21 2012, 03:05 PM) *
By Arthur Abraham syndrome I meant his strength and physical attributes wouldn't transfer over to 168.. I could be wrong but after the super six I'm pretty sure that's the reason Abraham went back to 160


oh. i didn't know he went back to 160.
mrchitown
Just watched the preview of JCC jr-Martinez face off...can't wait til the fight lol. There both looking like their going to bring their A-game. I initially picked Sergio to win but the more I think about it the more it seems like a toss up fight to me at this point.

Eventually JCC jr will move to 168 but I see him having some serious issues against a Dirrell or Ward. I say this because those 2 fighters have a high skill level and are athletic. I think this will serve as an detriment to Chaverz jr at 168. He has none/minimal athleticism. He has a solid chin but I can't ignore the fact that his biggest strength in fights is his massive weight advantage which would disappear at 168. Even if he grew into a player at SMW I still don't see him contending with the Direll and Ward types. His defense has improved but it's still mediocre and that's being generous. And who's to say that power will carry up to SMW. I think he's food for these 2 and possibly others at 168 if he tries to be brave and fight them
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 21 2012, 04:16 PM) *
Just watched the preview of JCC jr-Martinez face off...can't wait til the fight lol. There both looking like their going to bring their A-game. I initially picked Sergio to win but the more I think about it the more it seems like a toss up fight to me at this point.

Eventually JCC jr will move to 168 but I see him having some serious issues against a Dirrell or Ward. I say this because those 2 fighters have a high skill level and are athletic. I think this will serve as an detriment to Chaverz jr at 168. He has none/minimal athleticism. He has a solid chin but I can't ignore the fact that his biggest strength in fights is his massive weight advantage which would disappear at 168. Even if he grew into a player at SMW I still don't see him contending with the Direll and Ward types. His defense has improved but it's still mediocre and that's being generous. And who's to say that power will carry up to SMW. I think he's food for these 2 and possibly others at 168 if he tries to be brave and fight them


i can't help but to think about jr's old man...and how much he's really starting to look like him in the ring with his style. i agree...jr isn't an athlete...but he is a fighter...and like roy jones said..."a born fighter." i think he definitely has difficult times against both ward and dirrell..but i can see him beating dirrell. the pressure and body work would be enough to slow him down and i don't really think dirrell is a big puncher. dirrell has definite advantages over chavez but i could see this one playing out like chavez sr/m.taylor. it would go down to the wire.

Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 21 2012, 06:01 PM) *
dirrell has definite advantages over chavez but i could see this one playing out like chavez sr/m.taylor. it would go down to the wire.

I agree. I saw how Abraham was starting to get in his ass after the middle rounds...
Plah
QUOTE
C'mon Plah, your mind is still stuck in 2011. I would've have somewhat agreed with you a year ago, in regards to Chavez losing to Martinez. Not now though. You dont thinkk its a 50/50 fight at this point?

Good ol' Sr. didn't have that many tricks in his bag, he was a basic fighter with a little head movement, a good chin, and nasty body shots...does Jr. remind you of him in any manner? I would say yes.

I wont sit here and say that Julio is a skilled fighter, but he does have the size, chin, body shots, and resolve, to make a decent (if not great) account for himself in the above mentioned fights. Agree? Somewhat?


I 100% agree with the Sr. Comparison and that he has the size, a great chin, some pretty good body work. But it being a 50/50 fight? I dont know. I can see him getting hit with the same punch that ko'd Williams. And Paul Williams had a very good chin too plus a better defense (not that he was protecting himself or saw that punch coming lmao).
Franchize
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 21 2012, 05:16 PM) *
Just watched the preview of JCC jr-Martinez face off...can't wait til the fight lol. There both looking like their going to bring their A-game. I initially picked Sergio to win but the more I think about it the more it seems like a toss up fight to me at this point.


I agree man. I'm excited about this fight and the Ward vs Dawson fight because at the very least, I expect them to be totally competitive. I too thought Sergio would put a whoopin on Jr at first but Chavez Jr has matured as a fighter.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Plah @ Aug 22 2012, 10:17 AM) *
I 100% agree with the Sr. Comparison and that he has the size, a great chin, some pretty good body work. But it being a 50/50 fight? I dont know. I can see him getting hit with the same punch that ko'd Williams. And Paul Williams had a very good chin too plus a better defense (not that he was protecting himself or saw that punch coming lmao).

I agree to an extent. The Williams KO was Sergio's best KO, but let's be honest here, Chavez and Williams' chins are totally different at 160. Julio can take that punch at 180 lbs (on fight night), and Paul couldn't, and Im sure he was under 170 lbs. Williams' chin at 160 has always been shakey, but at 54 and down, it was legit.

daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Aug 22 2012, 10:47 AM) *
I agree to an extent. The Williams KO was Sergio's best KO, but let's be honest here, Chavez and Williams' chins are totally different at 160. Julio can take that punch at 180 lbs (on fight night), and Paul couldn't, and Im sure he was under 170 lbs. Williams' chin at 160 has always been shakey, but at 54 and down, it was legit.


chavez is a much bigger dude than williams. williams is really a jr middleweight/welterweight. julio will problably end up at 175. i get the feeling he's going to eat his punches and keep coming.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Franchize @ Aug 22 2012, 09:41 AM) *
I agree man. I'm excited about this fight and the Ward vs Dawson fight because at the very least, I expect them to be totally competitive. I too thought Sergio would put a whoopin on Jr at first but Chavez Jr has matured as a fighter.


Agreed, if this was yrs back I would've told anybody who'd listen that Martinez would have his way with JCC jr. But now he's adding some new wrinkles to his arsenal every time he gets in the ring now. His defense is still crap but I blame that on Roach but he has improved tremendously and this will be a great fight
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 21 2012, 05:01 PM) *
i can't help but to think about jr's old man...and how much he's really starting to look like him in the ring with his style. i agree...jr isn't an athlete...but he is a fighter...and like roy jones said..."a born fighter." i think he definitely has difficult times against both ward and dirrell..but i can see him beating dirrell. the pressure and body work would be enough to slow him down and i don't really think dirrell is a big puncher. dirrell has definite advantages over chavez but i could see this one playing out like chavez sr/m.taylor. it would go down to the wire.


I see him turning into his old man too and that's the problem. Ward/Dirrell, I look at them as opponents as far as when Chavez sr fought Meldrick and Sweet pea. Chavez sr wasn't going to win that fight if Steele dumb ass hadn't of stopped it. taylor was pretty much in control waaay more then half the fight. And Sweet Pea gave his ass a lesson in the sweet science and he got that horrible "draw" against him. He could pressure him and the body work could be a factor but I still stick to his weight advantage being his biggest asset in his career. His father and him are the same fighters, you put'em in front of an athlete and they toast.

He's a born fighter but people like Ward and Dirrell are naturally gifted athletes and those types 99 out of 100 win. Their also hard to beat. AA started to touch Dirrell late but by then I didn't think it was enough, unless he could've ko'd Andre. And I am of the opinion that Dirrell beat Froch. I don't rate Chavez jr even close to their level of fighter and Dirrell and Ward did had much success against them. Chavez jr has minimal defense. i see it tough if he suddenly jumps leaps in bounds in this area but if not then I see trouble
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 22 2012, 06:30 PM) *
I see him turning into his old man too and that's the problem. Ward/Dirrell, I look at them as opponents as far as when Chavez sr fought Meldrick and Sweet pea. Chavez sr wasn't going to win that fight if Steele dumb ass hadn't of stopped it. taylor was pretty much in control waaay more then half the fight. And Sweet Pea gave his ass a lesson in the sweet science and he got that horrible "draw" against him. He could pressure him and the body work could be a factor but I still stick to his weight advantage being his biggest asset in his career. His father and him are the same fighters, you put'em in front of an athlete and they toast.

He's a born fighter but people like Ward and Dirrell are naturally gifted athletes and those types 99 out of 100 win. Their also hard to beat. AA started to touch Dirrell late but by then I didn't think it was enough, unless he could've ko'd Andre. And I am of the opinion that Dirrell beat Froch. I don't rate Chavez jr even close to their level of fighter and Dirrell and Ward did had much success against them. Chavez jr has minimal defense. i see it tough if he suddenly jumps leaps in bounds in this area but if not then I see trouble


i remember that chavez sr/taylor fight like it was yesterday. meldrick was putting it on chavez early...but he did nothing to slow him down. i saw chavez putting money in the bank with those body shots and i knew then, watching it unfold, it was going to go down to the wire. as for steele stopping that bout...he's not the time keeper and in the heat of it all he gave taylor 2 chances to step forward and taylor was out of it. the stoppage will always be viewed as controversial but i get both sides of the argument.

as for the whitaker fight....that was a brilliant performance by pernell. i think he should have put his stamp on it by going for the ko in the last couple of rounds because he didn't give chavez anything in that bout and he had way more left imo. the draw was a disgrace.

with jr/dirrell...i don't think dirrell can outbox jr for a whole 12 rounds. while abraham and froch have more accomplishments...i think they aren't as aggressive and don't throw to the body like chavez nor do they have the same chin. that would be the difference. if abraham was able to catch up with dirrell mid rounds i'm quite certain chavez can do the same. dirrell has plenty of defensive holes and he'd waste a lot of energy trying to stay away from chavez. pressure busts pipes...and in this instance...i think chavez gets him.

ward is a different story. he has every tool and trick in the book. he has a beautiful jab...he'll stand in the pocket...he can box....he'll force chavez back every now and then....and he has respectable punching power. i can see him going through his catalog on jr and shutting him out.

chavez jr and sr may not be athletes...but they are tough durable guys who keep coming. it's reminiscent of ali/frazier. frazier wasn't really athletic or gifted either. he was tough and strong and kept coming. most times the gifted athlete should win....but every once in a while the tough durable guy finds a way. i can go down a long list of durable tough guys that beat gifted athletes....lamotta/robinson, basilio/robinson etc..etc..but you're right...most times the athlete/boxer wins.

i had dirrell beating froch 8-4. i could see jr stopping froch.
checkleft
Idk how we can be sure about chavez chin when he hasn't really fought any good punchers and he's about 20 pounds heavier then most of his opponents. The only real puncher he's fought is Rubio and Rubio busted him up quite a bit and didn't really land flush.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Aug 22 2012, 07:52 PM) *
Idk how we can be sure about chavez chin when he hasn't really fought any good punchers and he's about 20 pounds heavier then most of his opponents. The only real puncher he's fought is Rubio and Rubio busted him up quite a bit and didn't really land flush.


i didn't see rubio back him up once. he did swell his eye some though. i have to go back and watch that one.

something i've noticed about the best fighters...or the ones that can take shots...they all have big ass heads! almost like bobble doll heads. laugh.gif
sduck
Ward would shut him down easy
duwdu
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 22 2012, 06:30 PM) *
I see him turning into his old man too and that's the problem. Ward/Dirrell, I look at them as opponents as far as when Chavez sr fought Meldrick and Sweet pea. Chavez sr wasn't going to win that fight if Steele dumb ass hadn't of stopped it. taylor was pretty much in control waaay more then half the fight. And Sweet Pea gave his ass a lesson in the sweet science and he got that horrible "draw" against him. He could pressure him and the body work could be a factor but I still stick to his weight advantage being his biggest asset in his career. His father and him are the same fighters, you put'em in front of an athlete and they toast.

He's a born fighter but people like Ward and Dirrell are naturally gifted athletes and those types 99 out of 100 win. Their also hard to beat. AA started to touch Dirrell late but by then I didn't think it was enough, unless he could've ko'd Andre. And I am of the opinion that Dirrell beat Froch. I don't rate Chavez jr even close to their level of fighter and Dirrell and Ward did had much success against them. Chavez jr has minimal defense. i see it tough if he suddenly jumps leaps in bounds in this area but if not then I see trouble


This. Could not have stated it any better myself.

The most eloquent in favor of Jr. in this thread this far, is prof; my problem though (with regards to Chavez vs Martinez in particular,) is that prof is repeatedly saying what he believes Jr. will put on Sergio, while acknowledging very little of what Sergio can - and may well - do. If, for one, Sergio lands on Jr. the class of punch that KO'd Williams completely cold, Jr. would not be KO'd, but he would not just eat such a punch either. Believe me, in addition to Sergio being equally tough, he will be a lot smarter in that ring than some care to give him credit for. I think Sergio will win this one, despite the recent, big improvements displayed by Jr.

P34c3
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 22 2012, 06:41 PM) *
i remember that chavez sr/taylor fight like it was yesterday. meldrick was putting it on chavez early...but he did nothing to slow him down. i saw chavez putting money in the bank with those body shots and i knew then, watching it unfold, it was going to go down to the wire. as for steele stopping that bout...he's not the time keeper and in the heat of it all he gave taylor 2 chances to step forward and taylor was out of it. the stoppage will always be viewed as controversial but i get both sides of the argument.

as for the whitaker fight....that was a brilliant performance by pernell. i think he should have put his stamp on it by going for the ko in the last couple of rounds because he didn't give chavez anything in that bout and he had way more left imo. the draw was a disgrace.

with jr/dirrell...i don't think dirrell can outbox jr for a whole 12 rounds. while abraham and froch have more accomplishments...i think they aren't as aggressive and don't throw to the body like chavez nor do they have the same chin. that would be the difference. if abraham was able to catch up with dirrell mid rounds i'm quite certain chavez can do the same. dirrell has plenty of defensive holes and he'd waste a lot of energy trying to stay away from chavez. pressure busts pipes...and in this instance...i think chavez gets him.

ward is a different story. he has every tool and trick in the book. he has a beautiful jab...he'll stand in the pocket...he can box....he'll force chavez back every now and then....and he has respectable punching power. i can see him going through his catalog on jr and shutting him out.

chavez jr and sr may not be athletes...but they are tough durable guys who keep coming. it's reminiscent of ali/frazier. frazier wasn't really athletic or gifted either. he was tough and strong and kept coming. most times the gifted athlete should win....but every once in a while the tough durable guy finds a way. i can go down a long list of durable tough guys that beat gifted athletes....lamotta/robinson, basilio/robinson etc..etc..but you're right...most times the athlete/boxer wins.

i had dirrell beating froch 8-4. i could see jr stopping froch.


I agree with most of what you said, especially about the durable guys. It is some very intriguing matchups to be made for JCC jr when he steps into the SMW division. I think we will learn a lot about who he REALLY IS as a fighter when he steps up
mrchitown
QUOTE (duwdu @ Aug 23 2012, 09:28 AM) *
This. Could not have stated it any better myself.

The most eloquent in favor of Jr. in this thread this far, is prof; my problem though (with regards to Chavez vs Martinez in particular,) is that prof is repeatedly saying what he believes Jr. will put on Sergio, while acknowledging very little of what Sergio can - and may well - do. If, for one, Sergio lands on Jr. the class of punch that KO'd Williams completely cold, Jr. would not be KO'd, but he would not just eat such a punch either. Believe me, in addition to Sergio being equally tough, he will be a lot smarter in that ring than some care to give him credit for. I think Sergio will win this one, despite the recent, big improvements displayed by Jr.

P34c3


I've been back and forth with it lately. At first I was favoring Martinez to beat him, now I don't know which way to lean. I'll have to make a definitive pick the closer it gets to fight night lol
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 23 2012, 09:22 PM) *
I agree with most of what you said, especially about the durable guys. It is some very intriguing matchups to be made for JCC jr when he steps into the SMW division. I think we will learn a lot about who he REALLY IS as a fighter when he steps up


i think we'll learn who he really is in the martinez fight.
BoxingEinstein

Ward easily puts on a clinic on Chavez Jr. I do see some scary moments for Ward but Ward is a better inside fighter than Chavez Jr. The only way Chavez wins this if he attacks the body from the first second of the bell to the 12th round at a more hellacious pace than he already does. Ward is too fast, skilled, experienced, and his boxing IQ is high. Ward would fight Chavez Jr like how he fought Kessler and Bika. Ward by UD
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 24 2012, 01:53 PM) *
i think we'll learn who he really is in the martinez fight.


Really? Until I see him in with somebody who has skills and where his blow up doll weight isn't a factor, then I can't heap too much praise on him. Even if he beat Martinez, if he comes in 180 as usual on fight night, I just can't respect the W
checkleft
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Aug 24 2012, 06:38 PM) *
Really? Until I see him in with somebody who has skills and where his blow up doll weight isn't a factor, then I can't heap too much praise on him. Even if he beat Martinez, if he comes in 180 as usual on fight night, I just can't respect the W

I can agree with this. With all the weight classes nowadays its suppose to be easier for fighters to be at their weights its not suppose to be an advantage
The Original MrFactor
If Chavez jr handles Sergio Martinez next week, why not match him up with Andre Ward? He's definitely big enough to go to 168, and probably should be there now. I think its a money maker of a fight. Not so sure the Chavez folks would want it though.
Franchize
I don't think Chavez would do it but sure. I'd watch it. I highly doubt it would happen though.
Cshel86
I saw this coming!!!!.......

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=28855

Thanks Mr. Factor...great minds DO think alike!
Plah
Nope.
Hotsauce
yep
Hotsauce
does arum want it?
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Sep 9 2012, 12:31 AM) *
I saw this coming!!!!.......

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=28855

Thanks Mr. Factor...great minds DO think alike!



Arent you going to merge?
checkleft
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Sep 9 2012, 12:17 AM) *
does arum want it?


After what I just witnessed I doubt arum even wants to acknowledge wards existence in chachas next weight class
Plah
QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 9 2012, 01:33 AM) *
After what I just witnessed I doubt arum even wants to acknowledge wards existence in chachas next weight class

After that performance against Dawson I doubt someone would like to face Ward in the near future.
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