Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: PPV: Chavez vs. Martinez@9PM(ET)/6PM(PT) SPOILERS (Topics Merged)
FightHype Community > OTHER HYPE > Archives
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
mrchitown
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 15 2012, 11:59 PM) *
Lopez was seriously hurt several times in the fight, can't say the same about Chavez. Congrats to Sergio on the win, bit I think jr dropped the ball.


It was a good win, that's a career defining victory for Martinez. I don't think the proper adjustments would be made in a rematch, and some of that is Freddie's fault, he sucks at adjusting. He's a frontrunner, only good when his guy has a lead
BigFightFan
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 12:06 AM) *
It was a good win, that's a career defining victory for Martinez. I don't think the proper adjustments would be made in a rematch, and some of that is Freddie's fault, he sucks at adjusting. He's a frontrunner, only good when his guy has a lead

I can't really blame Roach for his guy not letting his hands go. The movement had chavez off balanced and confused.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 01:14 AM) *
I can't really blame Roach for his guy not letting his hands go. The movement had chavez off balanced and confused.


Which is what I saw for majority of the fight..

Chavez looked lost and was chasing Martinez the entire night.. trying to bull him to the ropes and unload..

Funny thing is Martinez didnt like that shit from the beginning.. the ropes belong to Chavez Jr and imo he's one of the best Ive seen when it come to punishment on the ropes...

Had Chavez worked behind a jab and moved forward and cut ol boy off.. he would have won this fight.. trying to outbox a boxer who is twice your speed is a lose lose..

Musashi100
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Sep 15 2012, 11:51 PM) *
u think he would be comfortable at 168?

hell yeah he would be comfortable,he was at least 168 in this fight. he will be way more comfortable going up than going down i tell you that. one the reasons why him nor chavez wanted to step on the scale because they didn't want to expose there weight size.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Musashi100 @ Sep 16 2012, 12:39 AM) *
hell yeah he would be comfortable,he was at least 168 in this fight. he will be way more comfortable going up than going down i tell you that. one the reasons why him nor chavez wanted to step on the scale because they didn't want to expose there weight size.


1. he was probably more than that

2.i agree with that
mrchitown
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 12:14 AM) *
I can't really blame Roach for his guy not letting his hands go. The movement had chavez off balanced and confused.


Yep, and I said that Martinez was feinting, throwing and moving out of harm's way

My issue is if they have a rematch what adjustments is Roach going to make to enable a different outcome, this guy has used the same game plan in 3 fights for JMM and we saw how that turned out, he;s bad at making adjustments in clutch moments but JCC jr could've kept his belt if he would've at least threw something out there to make Sergio think something was coming behind it
mitukczuk
I havent seen the whole fight yet, just the 12th round and I gotta say, that was the first time I have ever seen Sergio seriously hurt. He got hit with some bombs that round, but I am glad he made it out of the round - not saying recovered, he was pretty out on his feet. Can't wait to actually see it.

By the way - You can't blame everything on Roach. People seem to bash him to harshly these days. Yes, he has some flaws, but for some things you have to blame the fighter as well.
Gambit808
Where's Richard Steel when you need him damit!!! lol...

My hat goes off to Sergio Martinez for reminding ME why he is top 3 P4P. I honestly was 1 of those who felt like Chavez Jr. would be to strong and to much for Maravilla, but of coarse, I had 2 wait up until the 12th round to see the strength. [side track] I was at a local lounge around my way watching the fight around a pro Julio crowd of folks whom, just like some of the fans there, started packing it in around the 9th - 10th round. The few that were Pro Martinez just watched, loving every moment of the fight and I SWEAR TO Y'ALL, 11 rounds after seeing how dominant Sergio was fighting, I had a flashback of Chavez-Taylor and my boy and I kept telling people " yo, the fight is not over, there's still 1 more round left, REMEMBER CHAVEZ-TAYLOR???". Everybody wanted to look at us like "put the drinks down" then BOOM, knock down (lol) just like i figured would happenn, but kudos to Martinez for acting like a true champion gettin back up to finish the fight. Great fight that showed alot of heart in both guys.

That being said, I know it was a dominant 11 round decision on Martinez's behalf, but I myself wouldn't mind seeing a rematch between the 2. I believe Chavez just needs a better gameplan than the one he went in with. We seen that he can atlease seriously hurt Martinez, and I know that Martinez is going to basically come in with the same gameplan that worked for him the whole fight soooo... Adjustment from Chavez is the key here pretty much. He's a beat former champ plus he's in his prime so he can get better.

Oh and apparently I'm not the only one, word is it could happen at Cowboys Stadium, you know, Texas!

So are you interested in seeing this rematch?

Is it deserved?
sduck
No

Chavez Jr. was completely outclassed for 11 rounds, only hit it big on the 12th because Sergio was tired and burnt out, based on his own stamina.
Cshel86
...and you guys say that, I'M crazy, smh. Some of these posts literally had me tears, from laughter. laugh.gif Good stuff though.

So I lucked up on fight night, I got to the Thomas & Crack Center, and saw a guy selling some last minute tickets. I told him that I was trying to get rid of this one extras ticket of mine, that has been chapping my ass for the last 3 days. I traded both of my $75 tickets, for a $200 ticket and he threw in a $20 bill for my "troubles".

Not a bad deal at all. I almost thought I got tricked when I saw this fat Argentinian dude in my seat (at the end of the isle), but he quickly explained that he was too damn fat to sit in his middle seat, he showed me the stub, and we were good.

I ended u sitting by this Mexican cat that looked like a mix of Canelo and Gomez, but his girlfriend...boy, boy boy...that motherfucker was hot to the 25th power, no lie. She was "cute". As most of us know, a cute chick usually outshines a dime...its just something about them.

As for the fight, it was a bit different from my live, $200 view (which was nice). I saw a few comparative rounds for Julio, the 2nd, a late round (maybe 10 or 11, cant remember), and the round with the 2 knockdowns. I was a bit smashed, and it was SO much going on in there. The display wreaked of that shitty, low budget, Top Rank banner and trimmings, hardly any HBO logos there, so I'll have to watch it at home. No timers either during the rounds, so shit was happening faster than I anticipated, and some rounds just seemed eternal.

So there you have it, I definitely gave Julio the 2nd rd, that late comparative round, and obviously the round with the knockdowns. Sergio was killing me with the sticking and moving, but there was no need to fight Julio's fight (trading). Why give an opportunity to fight the fight that's actually his only chance of winning?

Sergio executed the perfect game plan, but let's be honest, Julio's body work throughout the WHOLE fight, took its toll. Those headshots during the fight, made their mark as well. Sergio got a bit too careless towards the end, and that's where the shit kicked in. I cant say I was surprised, because he had been hitting Sergio with "canvas tasters" throughout the fight, but his legs allowed him to flee from harm.

Julio got caught in some exchanges, and I thought he was gonna go down a FEW times. Martinez pulled out the stops tonight...that uppercut, inside fighting, and continuous attempts to the body, impressed me. Trust me, there were quiet Mexicans in there, but they still had faith in the reluctant Julio. Now THAT shit was pissing me off. From the outside, it wasn't his time, but he froze a few times when they got in close quarters.

This performance by Sergio, put me in the mind of the Khan/Maidana bout. Khan was supposed to stay away from the big puncher, and fight on the outside, which he did for a while, but he got near/against the ropes, and got comfortable/careless...all of his work was about to go down the shitter because of it.

Let's be real here, though Sergio dominated the fight, he was knocked down a couple of pegs because of the shots that he was taking BEFORE the knockdowns even occurred. The knockdowns just sealed the deal, in my opinion. He left the "almost factor" up for discussion...he beat Julio easily, but "almost" lost it all. Some out there would even call for a rematch, on the strength of that alone.

I'm not even sure a rematch is necessary here, but shit, if a guy basically gets his ass kicked over a round of 10 or 11 rounds, then BOOM, he goes down twice and barely survives...I can imagine the rematch talks are already brewing. Either Chavez can take punishment that well, or Sergio just slipped up and let his guard down, your choice.

Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch, if Arum decides to lift his stubby, wrinkled, finger and at least make a conscious effort to let us know that he actually gives a shit about an undercard. This one stunk, and made no sense, other than the Beltran Jr./Martinez bout. His undercards aren't usual half bad, but this one stunk.

Chavez proved that he's not just some spoiled kid, but he cant actually hold his own in there. I need to go back and watch this one at home, to make a better assessment. This is all that I have in the meantime...
Jack 1000
I only thought Chavez took the last round 10-7 and that is all. The second he might have taken, but no more than that.

Jack
duwdu
QUOTE (sduck @ Sep 16 2012, 05:37 AM) *
No

Chavez Jr. was completely outclassed for 11 rounds, only hit it big on the 12th because Sergio was tired and burnt out, based on his own stamina.


+1.

Not interested in a re-match. The result will be the same. In fact, Martinez is more likely to be able to successfully adjust his own game plan for the better, than JCC Jr. is likely going to be able to do, if they ever fight again any time before Martinez turns 40.

For the record, I believed Martinez would be too smart in the ring for Chavez Jr. for the fight we saw yesterday, and that Martinez would win.

Here is a great article (IMHO) published before the fight:

http://www.boxing.com/teddy_sergio_me_and_...chool_yard.html

P34c3
BigFightFan
Yes,

Chavez being outclassed went out the window the moment he put Sergio on his ass. The only way there want be a rematch is if Sergio refuses and moves on. But where does he go for his next opponent that will generate money? Chavez was beaten up, but never hurt and in the rematch I think he will press him earlier.

Maravilla really is a Ballerina!
BigFightFan
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Sep 16 2012, 05:57 AM) *
...and you guys say that, I'M crazy, smh. Some of these posts literally had me tears, from laughter. laugh.gif Good stuff though.

So I lucked up on fight night, I got to the Thomas & Crack Center, and saw a guy selling some last minute tickets. I told him that I was trying to get rid of this one extras ticket of mine, that has been chapping my ass for the last 3 days. I traded both of my $75 tickets, for a $200 ticket and he threw in a $20 bill for my "troubles".

Not a bad deal at all. I almost thought I got tricked when I saw this fat Argentinian dude in my seat (at the end of the isle), but he quickly explained that he was too damn fat to sit in his middle seat, he showed me the stub, and we were good.

I ended u sitting by this Mexican cat that looked like a mix of Canelo and Gomez, but his girlfriend...boy, boy boy...that motherfucker was hot to the 25th power, no lie. She was "cute". As most of us know, a cute chick usually outshines a dime...its just something about them.

As for the fight, it was a bit different from my live, $200 view (which was nice). I saw a few comparative rounds for Julio, the 2nd, a late round (maybe 10 or 11, cant remember), and the round with the 2 knockdowns. I was a bit smashed, and it was SO much going on in there. The display wreaked of that shitty, low budget, Top Rank banner and trimmings, hardly any HBO logos there, so I'll have to watch it at home. No timers either during the rounds, so shit was happening faster than I anticipated, and some rounds just seemed eternal.

So there you have it, I definitely gave Julio the 2nd rd, that late comparative round, and obviously the round with the knockdowns. Sergio was killing me with the sticking and moving, but there was no need to fight Julio's fight (trading). Why give an opportunity to fight the fight that's actually his only chance of winning?

Sergio executed the perfect game plan, but let's be honest, Julio's body work throughout the WHOLE fight, took its toll. Those headshots during the fight, made their mark as well. Sergio got a bit too careless towards the end, and that's where the shit kicked in. I cant say I was surprised, because he had been hitting Sergio with "canvas tasters" throughout the fight, but his legs allowed him to flee from harm.

Julio got caught in some exchanges, and I thought he was gonna go down a FEW times. Martinez pulled out the stops tonight...that uppercut, inside fighting, and continuous attempts to the body, impressed me. Trust me, there were quiet Mexicans in there, but they still had faith in the reluctant Julio. Now THAT shit was pissing me off. From the outside, it wasn't his time, but he froze a few times when they got in close quarters.

This performance by Sergio, put me in the mind of the Khan/Maidana bout. Khan was supposed to stay away from the big puncher, and fight on the outside, which he did for a while, but he got near/against the ropes, and got comfortable/careless...all of his work was about to go down the shitter because of it.

Let's be real here, though Sergio dominated the fight, he was knocked down a couple of pegs because of the shots that he was taking BEFORE the knockdowns even occurred. The knockdowns just sealed the deal, in my opinion. He left the "almost factor" up for discussion...he beat Julio easily, but "almost" lost it all. Some out there would even call for a rematch, on the strength of that alone.

I'm not even sure a rematch is necessary here, but shit, if a guy basically gets his ass kicked over a round of 10 or 11 rounds, then BOOM, he goes down twice and barely survives...I can imagine the rematch talks are already brewing. Either Chavez can take punishment that well, or Sergio just slipped up and let his guard down, your choice.

Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch, if Arum decides to lift his stubby, wrinkled, finger and at least make a conscious effort to let us know that he actually gives a shit about an undercard. This one stunk, and made no sense, other than the Beltran Jr./Martinez bout. His undercards aren't usual half bad, but this one stunk.

Chavez proved that he's not just some spoiled kid, but he cant actually hold his own in there. I need to go back and watch this one at home, to make a better assessment. This is all that I have in the meantime...

You sum'd it all up in a nutshell, Sergio all most gave it all away. The last round is the reason a rematch will be pushed. I for one think Chavez will win the rematch. Maravilla is really a ballerina
Plah
NO. Got schooled for 11 and a half rounds. Chavez can't deal with movement. What gameplan is he going to come with? Knockdown happened because Sergio's legs were gone because of all that movement. In a rematch all we'll see is that movement again but Sergio being a bit more careful. Chavez couldn't eat Sergio's punches. Sergio sometimes was even walking him down. So no, no need.
mgrover
i remember martinez stunned him one time, had him on the ropes, then the round ended.
MaxPayne
Sergio Martinez proved why he is unquestionably the lineal champion in the Middleweight division.

I give JCC a lot of credit for taking the beating that he did and still being there in Round 12 to capitalize on Martinez's lax defense in that round.

The most telling part of the fight was right after the knockdown in the 12th round, where Sergio continued to take big shots but recovered.

Trainers and fighters will tell you that a boxer's ability to recuperate is based almost entirely on conditioning. Sergio had a great camp, came into the fight in great shape and ultimately that conditioning helped him survive deep in Round 12 when it seemed like he was in trouble. By the end of the round, Sergio was moving, firing and landing, while JCC couldn't close the show. That was the difference in the fight in so many ways.

JCC clearly wasn't training properly or with any kind of discipline for this fight. Martinez's hard training and superb conditioning allowed him to stick with the stick and move strategy for the fight.

A rematch won't go any differently. You might simply see Martinez be a little bit more cautious, but he will still be out-throwing and out-landing JCC.

JCC made me a believer in one way, in that if he were to really dedicate himself to boxing, he could be a contender, although I feel he'll have to go to 168 lbs. soon because I can't see him realistically continuing to make the weight at Middleweight. He's not his daddy, but he showed that he belongs in professional boxing.
Musashi100
nope don't want to see no rematch, waste of the public time. martinez should now be looking to fight better opposition now, this fight went exactly how i thought is was going to go. i want to see martinez challenge himself, he needs to go up an fight andre ward.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Sep 16 2012, 03:52 AM) *
I havent seen the whole fight yet, just the 12th round and I gotta say, that was the first time I have ever seen Sergio seriously hurt. He got hit with some bombs that round, but I am glad he made it out of the round - not saying recovered, he was pretty out on his feet. Can't wait to actually see it.

By the way - You can't blame everything on Roach. People seem to bash him to harshly these days. Yes, he has some flaws, but for some things you have to blame the fighter as well.


You can when you see the fact that he doesn't know how to make adjustments.
Cshel86
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 10:04 AM) *
You sum'd it all up in a nutshell, Sergio all most gave it all away. The last round is the reason a rematch will be pushed. I for one think Chavez will win the rematch. Maravilla is really a ballerina

Thanks. I honestly dont even remember posting that shit. LOL.

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
NO. Got schooled for 11 and a half rounds.

Indeed he did, for the most part anyway. Sergio WAS getting hit by some good shots before the knockdowns even occurred, people seem to be looking past that part. It reminds me of Cotto/Margarito I, when Cotto was "dominating" the first half of the fight, when in all actuality, he was getting touched up in there and the shots soaked in later on.

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
Chavez can't deal with movement.

Who can? Most fighters that fight Sergio, have a problem dealing with it.

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
What gameplan is he going to come with?

Who knows, maybe a BETTER ONE. laugh.gif Seriously, he could either use more head movement, or work on closing the distance more effectively without sacrificing his face.

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
Knockdown happened because Sergio's legs were gone because of all that movement.

I hate to say this (well not really, lol), but it sounds like you're making excuses for Martinez. I dont get it. He schooled the guy for about 9 or 10 rounds, but almost let it go down the drain. Problem was, he got careless, the pressure was catching up to him, and Im sure he felt the body shots (like any normal fighter would).

I said this in one of my predictions, this would be the fight that Sergio beats himself in. He does it all the time, the constant movement usually takes a toll on him, but his opponent is usually in worse shape because of all the sustained shots, Sergio just closes the deal while being the lesser of the two tired fighters.

I knew this fight with Julio would validate that statement, because Julio usually gets stronger in the later rounds. So, are you validating the fact that Sergio worked against himself, or did Julio calculate the shot properly? I remember a few guys predicting Sergio winning by "decapitation", but we almost saw differently. Some of those same guys said that Floyd would "Gatti" Cotto...we saw differently.

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
n a rematch all we'll see is that movement again but Sergio being a bit more careful.

Isn't/shouldn't all fighters be more careful in a rematch?....whether they're the one who got beat for most of the fight and almost pulled off the upset KO, or the guy that controlled the fight and almost got KO'd at the end?

QUOTE (Plah @ Sep 16 2012, 10:45 AM) *
Chavez couldn't eat Sergio's punches. Sergio sometimes was even walking him down. So no, no need.

Indeed Sergio walked him down at times, but Chavez ate the punches good enough to do what he did at the end, right? What Sergio allowed to happen at the end, will surely have people bringing up rematch talks. I wonder how many people would be declining a rematch, had Sergio not been able to continue?

What will they say? "Sergio deserves a rematch because he was schooling Chavez for 11 rounds, but his legs were gone and he ended up getting stopped at the end". If that reason can be used to justify a rematch in Sergio's favor, then surely Chavez can be excused for getting schooled for 11 rounds and ALMOST stopping Sergio in the 12th (I still cant remember if that was round 11 or 12, lol)?

Anyhow, you made a good assessment of the action throughout the fight. One of them stuck out, but I cant remember which one it was off the top of my head. All in all, Julio proved that he belonged in the big talks of boxing. Sergio left some questions to be answered when he hit the canvas, again, it reminded me of Khan/Maidana, where Amir proved himself all the way up until the 10th, then almost had a flashback (like Martinez did with Margarito).

Cshel86
Oh yeah, one more thing...

Guys should give Julio credit for being a warrior and sustaining that type of punishment, and digging deep for that come-from-behind win that he almost claimed. If Julio's STILL a bum and a thorn in the ass to the sport of boxing, then guys shouldn't be adjusting their P4P lists and bumping Sergio up.

You cant have it both ways, if Sergio is one of the best P4P fighters after last night's victory, then Julio cant be considered a bum by any stretch of the imagination. As subjective as P4P lists are (or can be), there has to be SOME type of legitimacy somewhere in there (the fighter's opponents being formidable).

Honestly, I still cant say that Martinez is at the top of my P4P list (not that I care much about the list), but he may be in guys' book. It's like Donaire being in somebody's top 5 (of 10) list, who has he fought as of late (aside from Vasquez Jr)? Again, P4P lists are subjective in a full of gray areas backed by a "fan's" interpretation of the fighter and his accomplishments.
mgrover
mine goes something like

ward first
martinez second
i dont even know whos third anymore probably the klits for there sheer domination vitali 3rd and good ole wlad fourth i guess pac makes 5th or so, i still don't know with him since even though i felt like he beat bradley, he just didn't do it in that p4p way
fill in the rest of the gaps yourself

mayweathers been removed cause i think he's called it a day
mrchitown
Martinez did all that with a torn ligament in the knee and a broken left hand.....
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 09:12 PM) *
Martinez did all that with a torn ligament in the knee and a broken left hand.....


just made this entire situation awkward lol
checkleft
We all know chavez is a bully at 160 and most admitted this wouldn't be easy for Martinez. But it was clear he could outbox him and he did pretty easily until the 12th. His pride was almost his downfall if he didn't try to Exchange and kept boxing he could have easily pitched a shut out. But I mean it was his first ppv fight, he probably knew that if he didn't Exchange he wouldn't get another. I don't think a rematch should go down, especially not at Dallas stadium. It was sheer domination until the 12th.

Btw I was extremely surprised they scored the fight so well!
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Sep 16 2012, 03:33 PM) *
just made this entire situation awkward lol


hahahaha
mrchitown
Judging from the post fight reactions from both camps, it looks like they favor a rematch in the house that Jerry Jones built. I don't like that for Martinez, I would expect the same thing that happened with JMM-Pacquio to him if he went ahead and fought in Texas
Plus their commission is so lax and they always seem to ride with the popular fighter (i.e. JCC jr)
checkleft
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 05:37 PM) *
Judging from the post fight reactions from both camps, it looks like they favor a rematch in the house that Jerry Jones built. I don't like that for Martinez, I would expect the same thing that happened with JMM-Pacquio to him if he went ahead and fought in Texas
Plus their commission is so lax and they always seem to ride with the popular fighter (i.e. JCC jr)

Definitely.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (mgrover @ Sep 16 2012, 03:02 PM) *
mine goes something like

ward first
martinez second
i dont even know whos third anymore probably the klits for there sheer domination vitali 3rd and good ole wlad fourth i guess pac makes 5th or so, i still don't know with him since even though i felt like he beat bradley, he just didn't do it in that p4p way
fill in the rest of the gaps yourself

mayweathers been removed cause i think he's called it a day

Martinez second p4p? Lol!
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:37 PM) *
Oh yeah, one more thing...

Guys should give Julio credit for being a warrior and sustaining that type of punishment, and digging deep for that come-from-behind win that he almost claimed. If Julio's STILL a bum and a thorn in the ass to the sport of boxing, then guys shouldn't be adjusting their P4P lists and bumping Sergio up.

You cant have it both ways, if Sergio is one of the best P4P fighters after last night's victory, then Julio cant be considered a bum by any stretch of the imagination. As subjective as P4P lists are (or can be), there has to be SOME type of legitimacy somewhere in there (the fighter's opponents being formidable).

Honestly, I still cant say that Martinez is at the top of my P4P list (not that I care much about the list), but he may be in guys' book. It's like Donaire being in somebody's top 5 (of 10) list, who has he fought as of late (aside from Vasquez Jr)? Again, P4P lists are subjective in a full of gray areas backed by a "fan's" interpretation of the fighter and his accomplishments.


or give martinez any credit for beating chavez.
checkleft
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 05:54 PM) *
Martinez second p4p? Lol!

Well mayweather is out and it doesn't sound like he's coming back so arguably.
mgrover
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 10:54 PM) *
Martinez second p4p? Lol!


nobody else to fill the void
Jack 1000
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 04:37 PM) *
Judging from the post fight reactions from both camps, it looks like they favor a rematch in the house that Jerry Jones built. I don't like that for Martinez, I would expect the same thing that happened with JMM-Pacquio to him if he went ahead and fought in Texas
Plus their commission is so lax and they always seem to ride with the popular fighter (i.e. JCC jr)


Well I could live with a rematch, please NOT in Texas! Chavez Jr. will somehow win there and he probably would have scored a TKO in the 12th if Lawrence Cole had been the ref, and that fight had been in Texas! Neutral officials are what is needed more of in boxing. In Texas, they will do everything to get Chavez his WBC title back. Don't do it Sergio! Neutral site only. Dibella and Sergio should be saying no to anything otherwise.

I have had mixed Chavez cards in his fights. I thought he looked very ordinary against Peter Manfredo and had him losing 2-1 at the stoppage, Although all three rounds could have gone either way. I had Chavez ahead against Andy Lee by a round or two, but all three judges had Lee ahead. That was surprising, but this was after Bradley-Pacquiao so the judges may have bent over backwards to go the other way. I suspect that the WBC will mandate a rematch anyway, and off the strength of Chavez's almost miracle 12th round, there's probably enough interest to do it. I like Julio Jr. But I don't like the politics that protect him.

Jack
Franchize
I know this might be asking alot but anyone have any vids/links of the fight. I was with my better half on vacation.
checkleft
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 16 2012, 06:55 PM) *
Well I could live with a rematch, please NOT in Texas! Chavez Jr. will somehow win there and he probably would have scored a TKO in the 12th if Lawrence Cole had been the ref, and that fight had been in Texas! Neutral officials are what is needed more of in boxing. In Texas, they will do everything to get Chavez his WBC title back. Don't do it Sergio! Neutral site only. Dibella and Sergio should be saying no to anything otherwise.

I have had mixed Chavez cards in his fights. I thought he looked very ordinary against Peter Manfredo and had him losing 2-1 at the stoppage, Although all three rounds could have gone either way. I had Chavez ahead against Andy Lee by a round or two, but all three judges had Lee ahead. That was surprising, but this was after Bradley-Pacquiao so the judges may have bent over backwards to go the other way. I suspect that the WBC will mandate a rematch anyway, and off the strength of Chavez's almost miracle 12th round, there's probably enough interest to do it. I like Julio Jr. But I don't like the politics that protect him.

Jack

Yes. Not to mention chavez seems to give drug tests the slip in Texas
Cheesey1
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Sep 16 2012, 10:55 AM) *
Yes,

Chavez being outclassed went out the window the moment he put Sergio on his ass. The only way there want be a rematch is if Sergio refuses and moves on. But where does he go for his next opponent that will generate money? Chavez was beaten up, but never hurt and in the rematch I think he will press him earlier.

Maravilla really is a Ballerina!

Maravilla's more like a tap dancer, because he was tap dancing all over JCC Jr's face. There's a photo of Chavez post beatdown face circulating on the interwebs, If you're on twitter, Lou DiBella's sending it around. I think a few other people have it too.

I really hope JCC Jr. gets the rematch. This time I'll bet money.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (mgrover @ Sep 16 2012, 12:25 AM) *
this has payed for my next few nights out

I never gamble because I always lose, but I'm kicking myself for not betting on this one.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 12:24 AM) *
YES!!!! Shoutout to Maravilla for knowing how to fight this bum! I'm going to pick up my $ tomorrow morning hahahaha

I'm jealous.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Sep 16 2012, 06:36 PM) *
I'm jealous.


Don't be, when the rematch takes place you could pt your kids thru college with the beatdown Martinez will put on junior.

I've seen the pics of JCC jr's face and I almost feel bad for him but everybody including his father says he was bullshitting thru camp...as far as the ballerina stuff people keep saying, that actually is an old training method that trainers used to put their fighters thru, but these trolls don't understand that. They only see one way of things
flazi
bailarina? hahaha you can't hit someone with that many punches if you dancing around. he didn't dance or run. all he did was jab jab jab jab left jab left move pivot wash rinse repeat lol
checkleft
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 16 2012, 09:05 PM) *
bailarina? hahaha you can't hit someone with that many punches if you dancing around. he didn't dance or run. all he did was jab jab jab jab left jab left move pivot wash rinse repeat lol

Haha
Plah
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Sep 16 2012, 03:31 PM) *
I hate to say this (well not really, lol), but it sounds like you're making excuses for Martinez. I dont get it. He schooled the guy for about 9 or 10 rounds, but almost let it go down the drain. Problem was, he got careless, the pressure was catching up to him, and Im sure he felt the body shots (like any normal fighter would).

Not really, I just dont understand why people are clamoring for a rematch when the guy lost 11 of 12. Was just explaining how the KD happened. Pride, carelessness, and that excessive movement. About the gameplan, he only fights that way, doesnt train that hard, and he doesnt have a trainer that is known for making any adjustments when things get ugly.
daprofessor
i will give sergio props for not circling the whole fight. he actually backed chavez up a few times and stood in the pocket. chavez looked befuddled. i don't think he expected that. i also think he totally felt and respected martinez' power from the very beginning. i think chavez started off with the right game plan in mind...he was throwing those hooks to the body and coming back to the head, but he was loading up way too much. martinez' definitely made adjustments and the experience advantage showed immediately. thing is...it didn't deter chavez. he seemed to be patient...and trying...but lack the necessary adjustments kept him from taking over. seems to me...the answer for any problem for guys like chavez is 'harder...or more...' and this fight really reminded me of chavez/taylor or chavez/whitaker. u knew he'd be trying to find a way to win all the way to until the end...but in the meantime...he was being out boxed and out skilled. but like i said before...skill doesn't always win out...and in typical "chavez" fashion...it went all the way down to the wire. he landed that shot in the 12th and i wasn't surprised because he really didn't over exert himself the whole fight. he was just biding his time...and his pressure was forcing martinez to fight at a very high pace that he is definitely not accustomed to. martinez looked to take his break in the mid rounds...chavez turned it up and martinez answered. i knew chavez chances would lie late in the fight. the slip/tangle up bought martinez time to survive. chavez got a little too eager and crowded himself. i'm sure it was a learning experience and he'll become better as a result.

i want to see the rematch because i don't believe there is a bigger fight out there for either guy. i also believe that chavez has way more room for improvement, whereas martinez pretty much fought the fight of his life. martinez was able to land some great shots...but all they did was back chavez up. when chavez finally let his hands go...his shots had martinez on the mat ready to go. i think chavez has proven he belongs. u don't get to this level and drop a guy like martinez as hard as he did without having something. chavez is the real deal.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 16 2012, 11:04 PM) *
i will give sergio props for not circling the whole fight. he actually backed chavez up a few times and stood in the pocket. chavez looked befuddled. i don't think he expected that. i also think he totally felt and respected martinez' power from the very beginning. i think chavez started off with the right game plan in mind...he was throwing those hooks to the body and coming back to the head, but he was loading up way too much. martinez' definitely made adjustments and the experience advantage showed immediately. thing is...it didn't deter chavez. he seemed to be patient...and trying...but lack the necessary adjustments kept him from taking over. seems to me...the answer for any problem for guys like chavez is 'harder...or more...' and this fight really reminded me of chavez/taylor or chavez/whitaker. u knew he'd be trying to find a way to win all the way to until the end...but in the meantime...he was being out boxed and out skilled. but like i said before...skill doesn't always win out...and in typical "chavez" fashion...it went all the way down to the wire. he landed that shot in the 12th and i wasn't surprised because he really didn't over exert himself the whole fight. he was just biding his time...and his pressure was forcing martinez to fight at a very high pace that he is definitely not accustomed to. martinez looked to take his break in the mid rounds...chavez turned it up and martinez answered. i knew chavez chances would lie late in the fight. the slip/tangle up bought martinez time to survive. chavez got a little too eager and crowded himself. i'm sure it was a learning experience and he'll become better as a result.

i want to see the rematch because i don't believe there is a bigger fight out there for either guy. i also believe that chavez has way more room for improvement, whereas martinez pretty much fought the fight of his life. martinez was able to land some great shots...but all they did was back chavez up. when chavez finally let his hands go...his shots had martinez on the mat ready to go. i think chavez has proven he belongs. u don't get to this level and drop a guy like martinez as hard as he did without having something. chavez is the real deal.

Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.
MaxPayne
I don't get the whole "dancing and running" theory. Sergio threw 900 motherfucking punches. More importantly, JCC was doing his best Arturo Gatti post fight face impersonation with the ridiculous swelling, cuts and discolorations.

I don't support a rematch right now because Chavez has no chance against Sergio unless he can develop a jab-right hand combo that is reliable. The whole bulling someone to the ropes and start winging hooks will only work on stationary fighters.

About Pound for Pound lists, nothing really changes. I have Sergio behind Floyd and Andre Ward, but in a 3 way tie with Pacquiao and Marquez.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 16 2012, 11:24 PM) *
Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.


i'd love to see chavez/froch. that would make for a great fight. i also wouldn't mind seeing him in with pavlik. that's a very doable fight as well. this is one of those rare occasions where in losing...a fighter gains more fans. chavez definitely has more options. unfortunately for martinez...he won't get a bigger pay day than what he can make with chavez. we already know he won't move up to 168. i doubt he gets a fight with floyd, canelo or cotto. there are other guys for him to fight...but the risks will outweigh the rewards. he is arguably one of the best, no doubt...unfortunately he doesn't have a real promoter.


checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 17 2012, 12:00 AM) *
i'd love to see chavez/froch. that would make for a great fight. i also wouldn't mind seeing him in with pavlik. that's a very doable fight as well. this is one of those rare occasions where in losing...a fighter gains more fans. chavez definitely has more options. unfortunately for martinez...he won't get a bigger pay day than what he can make with chavez. we already know he won't move up to 168. i doubt he gets a fight with floyd, canelo or cotto. there are other guys for him to fight...but the risks will outweigh the rewards. he is arguably one of the best, no doubt...unfortunately he doesn't have a real promoter.

I definitely agree. But idk about chavez gaining fans, everybody I know that watched the fight was pretty dissatisfied he didn't let his hands go. But chavez definitely has those options, but like you said after watching Martinez punish a light heavyweight for about 11 rounds he isn't very alluring to the big names. I doubt cotto would take a fight with him and even more doubtful Canelo will and mayweather is not rushing back to fighting anytime soon. This was a lose lose for Martinez other than the pay day
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Sep 17 2012, 12:24 AM) *
Idk about not having anyone else to fight, that may only apply to Martinez. Chavez clearly needs to move up in weight. He was probably over 185-190. His definition was gone he was slower and its no surprise he REFUSED to weigh in on the hbo scales before the fight. Martinez will have trouble finding another fight but chavez has a whole two weight classes of opponents to choose from (super middle and light heavy). But I think if Martinez made chavez feel his power and backed him up a few times a guy that is the same size probably knocks him out. But he has plenty if options, I think he and frotch would be a great all action fight.

I will check that out, in regards to him refusing to weigh in on fight night. Last time I checked, the WBC requires fighters to do an unofficial weigh-in on fight night, so you're right. I doubt if Julio rushes to 168. He can stay at 160 for a little while longer. There are a few fighters that will allow him to get away with the bullshit that he couldn't get away with in the Sergio fight...same situation with Dawson coming down to 168 and fighting someone OTHER THAN Ward.

QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Sep 17 2012, 12:26 AM) *
I don't support a rematch right now because Chavez has no chance against Sergio unless he can develop a jab-right hand combo that is reliable. The whole bulling someone to the ropes and start winging hooks will only work on stationary fighters.

It seemed to have paid dividends for him, especially when it came to the 12th round. Im not sure how it looked from a television view, but live, those body shots and head shots had Sergio looking crazy in a few rounds.

Side note: I think Arum kept Julio honest by allowing this fight to happen. Im not even sure that he thought Julio would win this fight, but let's not forget, before the Lee fight was signed, Julio was attempting to sit out on his contract, and refusing to sign an extension that Bob was damn near forcing him to sign. Weird, but I wouldn't rule this out, as to why this fight actually took place.

I see Arum pushing this whole "Jerry Jones just requested the rematch at the Cowboys Stadium" crap...maybe its another way of keeping Julio under contract. Poor DiBella, all he seems to have is tv deals, and can do little for Sergio. This was a big fight for them, but Im not sure whats next for them.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Sep 16 2012, 08:06 PM) *
Don't be, when the rematch takes place you could pt your kids thru college with the beatdown Martinez will put on junior.

I've seen the pics of JCC jr's face and I almost feel bad for him but everybody including his father says he was bullshitting thru camp...as far as the ballerina stuff people keep saying, that actually is an old training method that trainers used to put their fighters thru, but these trolls don't understand that. They only see one way of things

"...kids through college" Nice one and I agree completely.

Re. the post 'Beatdown I' photo (the rematch will be called "Beatdown II), same here, I did feel bad for him. Unfortunately for him that's the photo that I'm using for the Weekend Round Up article that I'm writing now.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Sep 17 2012, 02:38 AM) *
Re. the post 'Beatdown I' photo (the rematch will be called "Beatdown II), same here, I did feel bad for him. Unfortunately for him that's the photo that I'm using for the Weekend Round Up article that I'm writing now.

LMAO! How dirty of you, Cheesey!!! laugh.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.