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Full Version: Would You Say A Fighters Ability To Fall & Rise Back To The Top, Merit More Than A Fighter Whom Remains Unbeaten?
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Gambit808
Past or Present, the popularity of fighters who've fallin from the top, only to rise back to it, out weighs the significance of the FEW fighters who's records remained Un-beat, yet far more recognition is given to the FLAWED fighters than the FLAWLESS fighter.

Is there something wrong here?

Notably Retired Unbeaten

Rocky Marciano
Joe Calzagie
Ricardo Lopez
Jimmy Barry
Laszlo Papp
Terry Marsh

Notably Retired Greats

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Ray Robinson
Floyd Patterson
Sonny Liston
Willy Pepp
Jack Demsey
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Tommy Hearns
Roberto Duran
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Lennox Lewis
Parnell Whitaker
Arron Pryor... To name a few
Cheesey1
Very valid question. For me it's all about who you fought, when you fought them and how you fought.
mgrover
fighters who are undefeated usually are that way due to the competition they have fought, there are obviously a few exceptions but the reason fighters have been is because they've been taking on all comers
Gambit808
Thanx for your input guys,

Where does Mayweather Rank Among the Great List?

Can Roy Jones Jr. be consider great by his fall from grace?
daprofessor
great question!!!

i believe the great fighters are the ones who achieve what is thought to be impossible. unfortunately...sometimes they have to fall before that becomes an option. looking at your long list of notably retired greats u can point to all of their moments when they've fallen. excellence isn't always perceived as such.

of your list of notably retired undefeated....they didn't have too many fights where the odds were against them to win.

no guts, no glory. u have to roll the dice and accomplish the impossible to achieve greatness.
daprofessor


Notably Retired Unbeaten

Rocky Marciano
Joe Calzagie
Ricardo Lopez
Jimmy Barry
Laszlo Papp
Terry Marsh

Notably Retired Greats

Muhammad Ali - no one thought he'd beat liston or foreman.

Joe Louis - he avenged his loss to schmeling and broke the record for title defenses and held the title for 10 or 11 yrs.

Ray Robinson - his body of work speaks for itself

Floyd Patterson - youngest heavyweight champ ever (during his time)

Sonny Liston - annihilated the competition

Willy Pepp - longevity...he fought everyone and beat his nemisis

Jack Demsey - first of his kind. he birthed his style

George Foreman - blew the competition away...no one took his comeback seriously. his win over moorer is one for the ages

Joe Frazier - first guy to beat the great muhammad ali

Mike Tyson - youngest heavyweight champ ever, annihilated his competition

Ray Leonard - ray has wins over all time greats and won when he wasn't supposed to over hagler

Marvin Hagler - dominated his division and has wins over atg's

Tommy Hearns - 5 weight division champion who has wins over atg's

Roberto Duran - reigned for 10yrs at lightweight...won when he wasn't supposed to on more than one occasion

Julio Ceasar Chavez - longevity with wins over solid opposition

Lennox Lewis - doesn't belong on this list

Parnell Whitaker - perfection. win over chavez is probably his best...but u could argue that his only legit loss was to trinidad. i don't count his last fight.

Arron Pryor - 2 wins over the great alexis arguello

checkleft
Well I like when a guy faces adversity and can come back from defeat stronger then before, but I mean if your good enough to never even go through that then that speaks multitudes too...

I don't care if a fighter has losses, hbos drunktard once famously said "sometimes were perfect through our imperfections".

If you can overcome your losses than you are truly great, even Jordan says that's why he's so great.
BigDDatHomey
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Sep 28 2012, 07:16 AM) *
Past or Present, the popularity of fighters who've fallin from the top, only to rise back to it, out weighs the significance of the FEW fighters who's records remained Un-beat, yet far more recognition is given to the FLAWED fighters than the FLAWLESS fighter.

Is there something wrong here?

Notably Retired Unbeaten

Rocky Marciano
Joe Calzagie
Ricardo Lopez
Jimmy Barry
Laszlo Papp
Terry Marsh

Notably Retired Greats

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Ray Robinson
Floyd Patterson
Sonny Liston
Willy Pepp
Jack Demsey
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Tommy Hearns
Roberto Duran
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Lennox Lewis
Parnell Whitaker
Arron Pryor... To name a few


Good question. I think in general, there is something to say about someone (even a team) who wins, then loses, and picks themselves back up to be champions once again. With the fight game, unlike a team sport, losing is more personal and you literally take more damage to your body and pride than any other sport. Many of the fights, these great fighters lost, were wars. To come back from losing a war only to show that you're ready for war again shows something special.

To stay on top, also requires another special type of person. It doesn't only matter who you fight, but when you fight, how often you fight, and how long you stay in the game. Eventually, you're going to lose, it doesn't matter who you are.

At the same time, none of that takes away from Floyd Mayweather's greatness.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Sep 28 2012, 03:36 PM) *
Good question. I think in general, there is something to say about someone (even a team) who wins, then loses, and picks themselves back up to be champions once again. With the fight game, unlike a team sport, losing is more personal and you literally take more damage to your body and pride than any other sport. Many of the fights, these great fighters lost, were wars. To come back from losing a war only to show that you're ready for war again shows something special.

To stay on top, also requires another special type of person. It doesn't only matter who you fight, but when you fight, how often you fight, and how long you stay in the game. Eventually, you're going to lose, it doesn't matter who you are.

At the same time, none of that takes away from Floyd Mayweather's greatness.


great post. i totally agree. in addition to boxing being different than any other sport...where a loss sets u back, i think it needs to be said that ur financial earning potential drops exponentially with boxing. in team sports...they get to come back next week and try again without the pay decrease.

'if you haven't failed, you haven't tried hard enough'

not sure who said it...but i agree with this statement. u have to dare to be great.
wolterb
nevermind laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Oct 13 2012, 10:02 AM) *
nevermind laugh.gif


i wanna laugh too! share. B)
Gambit808
QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Sep 28 2012, 04:36 PM) *
Good question. I think in general, there is something to say about someone (even a team) who wins, then loses, and picks themselves back up to be champions once again. With the fight game, unlike a team sport, losing is more personal and you literally take more damage to your body and pride than any other sport. Many of the fights, these great fighters lost, were wars. To come back from losing a war only to show that you're ready for war again shows something special.

To stay on top, also requires another special type of person. It doesn't only matter who you fight, but when you fight, how often you fight, and how long you stay in the game. Eventually, you're going to lose, it doesn't matter who you are.

At the same time, none of that takes away from Floyd Mayweather's greatness.

So would you say Floyd exceeds all the notables on the list if in fact he were to retire with his perfect record intact?

He's been in some wars, and has been the underdog on rare occasions.
wolterb
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 15 2012, 02:59 PM) *
i wanna laugh too! share. cool.gif



haha well professor, i don't know how humorous it actually was. I'll restart the post i was making for this thread (which i think is a very good thread) and get it up here. I had started to make a case for the always doubted, always forgotten Klitschko brothers and how they fit into this discussion. But since this thread is mostly in regards to a fighters complete career (retirement included), the brothers don't exactly fit and i may have came close to unloading a big can of sports fan bullshit all over this thread (something I wanted to spare everyone of).

i'll post something in here later cause it is a good subject and hopefully you can have a laugh drinks.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Oct 21 2012, 01:28 PM) *
haha well professor, i don't know how humorous it actually was. I'll restart the post i was making for this thread (which i think is a very good thread) and get it up here. I had started to make a case for the always doubted, always forgotten Klitschko brothers and how they fit into this discussion. But since this thread is mostly in regards to a fighters complete career (retirement included), the brothers don't exactly fit and i may have came close to unloading a big can of sports fan bullshit all over this thread (something I wanted to spare everyone of).

i'll post something in here later cause it is a good subject and hopefully you can have a laugh drinks.gif


wladimir definitely fits into this category.
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