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checkleft
1) Using knuckle pads (Pacman, Trinidad)

2) Plaster of Paris (Margarito, Resto)

3) Diarrhetics/Weight loss supplements (Chavez Jr, Morales)

4) Steroids (Mosley, Berto, Tarver)

5) Stamina Enhancers (Resto, Morales, maybe Pryor)

I do a little boxing, my little brother does a lot of boxing, and I have a lot if friends involved in it as well. To me I think I would say the worst ones in my personal opinion would have to be the knuckle pads/plaster and the stamina enhancers. Personally anyone who hardens their hands is garbage and should be in prison or banned for life. The stamina enhancers is a strong point with me because as your sustaining damage you have greater lung capacity then your opponent therefore your brain receives more oxygen so not only are you performing better because you don't tire physically, you are possibilly better at making decisions mentally because you are not fatigued and your thinking more clearly.

For me steroids in boxing is sort of like how I see it in basketball, yes it MIGHT play a factor but in the end there is so much skill, technique, and craft involved that it could not be a factor at all. Don't get me wrong it is still a sin in boxing but its just not my personal top one

What do you guys think?
p4pcrown
Definitely the knuckle pads and plaster. They have a direct impact from round 1 to round 12.
Plah
1) Plaster

2) Knuckle Pads

3) Steroids/Peds

4) Stamina Enhancers

5) Diuretics
Cheesey1
I consider stamina enhancers and steroids/PEDs to be the same thing. They all directly enhance performance. Apart from that my list is essentially the same as Plah's


sduck
I think I pretty much agree with you checkleft....
flazi
plaster. the damage of those left in its wake is saddening. Cotto hasn't been the same and the dude resto fought killed himself.
flazi
thinking back, how many other margarito oppenents never been the same after they fought? so far only one comes to my mind, hercules kyevelos (sp?).
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 3 2012, 05:03 AM) *
1) Using knuckle pads (Pacman, Trinidad)

2) Plaster of Paris (Margarito, Resto)

3) Diarrhetics/Weight loss supplements (Chavez Jr, Morales)

4) Steroids (Mosley, Berto, Tarver)

5) Stamina Enhancers (Resto, Morales, maybe Pryor)

I do a little boxing, my little brother does a lot of boxing, and I have a lot if friends involved in it as well. To me I think I would say the worst ones in my personal opinion would have to be the knuckle pads/plaster and the stamina enhancers. Personally anyone who hardens their hands is garbage and should be in prison or banned for life. The stamina enhancers is a strong point with me because as your sustaining damage you have greater lung capacity then your opponent therefore your brain receives more oxygen so not only are you performing better because you don't tire physically, you are possibilly better at making decisions mentally because you are not fatigued and your thinking more clearly.

For me steroids in boxing is sort of like how I see it in basketball, yes it MIGHT play a factor but in the end there is so much skill, technique, and craft involved that it could not be a factor at all. Don't get me wrong it is still a sin in boxing but its just not my personal top one

What do you guys think?


knuckle pads are not against the rules. i suggest you do more research. trinidad and pacquiao have not broken any rules.

what margarito did....and what resto did are two different things. margarito had inserts with plaster of paris like substance. resto's gloves had the padding removed. both are bad imo.

diarrhettics do more harm to the fighter taking them than anyone.

steroids don't enhance a persons skills...that's for sure. laugh.gif

stamina enhancers are wrong.


daprofessor
QUOTE (flazi @ Nov 5 2012, 03:48 PM) *
thinking back, how many other margarito oppenents never been the same after they fought? so far only one comes to my mind, hercules kyevelos (sp?).


how many sparring partners? i know a couple.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 5 2012, 06:03 PM) *
knuckle pads are not against the rules. i suggest you do more research. trinidad and pacquiao have not broken any rules.

what margarito did....and what resto did are two different things. margarito had inserts with plaster of paris like substance. resto's gloves had the padding removed. both are bad imo.

diarrhettics do more harm to the fighter taking them than anyone.

steroids don't enhance a persons skills...that's for sure. laugh.gif

stamina enhancers are wrong.

Knuckle pads (rolls of tape and gause on the knuckle) are illegal in New York, Vegas, and I think California. And both Trinidad and pacquiao have been caught doing it by Richardson and I believe both were made to rewrap their hands.

And I believe Resto admitted to having his wraps dipped in plaster of Paris on top of getting the padding removed for that fight and a few others.

Definitely agree with you on the steroids part.
checkleft
QUOTE (flazi @ Nov 5 2012, 03:48 PM) *
thinking back, how many other margarito oppenents never been the same after they fought? so far only one comes to my mind, hercules kyevelos (sp?).

Cintron and cotto were definitely never the same. I have often been suspicious of his Martinez win too but obviously he only got better since then
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 5 2012, 06:55 PM) *
Knuckle pads (rolls of tape and gause on the knuckle) are illegal in New York, Vegas, and I think California. And both Trinidad and pacquiao have been caught doing it by Richardson and I believe both were made to rewrap their hands.

And I believe Resto admitted to having his wraps dipped in plaster of Paris on top of getting the padding removed for that fight and a few others.

Definitely agree with you on the steroids part.


what you are talking about is when the tape is rolled between the fingers. that's something different and doesn't add to anything. it protrudes past the knuckle....and yes, that is illegal.

again....trinidad wrapped his hands without the other corner being present. they re-wrapped his hands in the same manner. richardson accused them of stacking....(tape, then gauze, then tape..) but if they did anything illegal, there would have been punishment by the commission like what resto and margarito had. same goes for pac.

resto's case is very well documented....there was padding removed from the glove. it's not hard to research this. i've been involved in these discussions before. i've wrapped hands both professionally and on the amateur level for the past 15 years in a few different states and countries. i've done the research.

on a different note...what richardson has become a master at is psychological games surrounding the wrapping of hands. he does know the rules...and he does catch the mistakes....but i think he just brings a nervous energy to something that is normally a very relaxing moment for fighter and trainer. he comes in and disrupts that....and it gets carried to the ring. a good trainer wouldn't allow it....especially one that is on his shit and does things by the book.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 6 2012, 05:04 PM) *
what you are talking about is when the tape is rolled between the fingers. that's something different and doesn't add to anything. it protrudes past the knuckle....and yes, that is illegal.

again....trinidad wrapped his hands without the other corner being present. they re-wrapped his hands in the same manner. richardson accused them of stacking....(tape, then gauze, then tape..) but if they did anything illegal, there would have been punishment by the commission like what resto and margarito had. same goes for pac.

resto's case is very well documented....there was padding removed from the glove. it's not hard to research this. i've been involved in these discussions before. i've wrapped hands both professionally and on the amateur level for the past 15 years in a few different states and countries. i've done the research.

on a different note...what richardson has become a master at is psychological games surrounding the wrapping of hands. he does know the rules...and he does catch the mistakes....but i think he just brings a nervous energy to something that is normally a very relaxing moment for fighter and trainer. he comes in and disrupts that....and it gets carried to the ring. a good trainer wouldn't allow it....especially one that is on his shit and does things by the book.

Resto has admitted to having padding removed and plastering that same night.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=3329115

But in trinidads case there are quotes from Richardson saying he was stacking (tape anywhere on the knuckle). But that's just word of mouth and the NY commission isn't exactly the most trustworthy source lol

But the tape thing is because there are many tricks out there to harden the tape like dipping them in ice water. That's why I think both are equally as bad cause in my mind tape is trying to deceive while plaster is more obvious.

Cshel86
Plaster all day! Worse fuckin' violation in the sport. I've seen guys on PEDs, that STILL get the short end of the stick. Maybe they were using the cheap shit, who knows. I cant get past that plaster though....
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 6 2012, 05:47 PM) *
Resto has admitted to having padding removed and plastering that same night.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=3329115

But in trinidads case there are quotes from Richardson saying he was stacking (tape anywhere on the knuckle). But that's just word of mouth and the NY commission isn't exactly the most trustworthy source lol

But the tape thing is because there are many tricks out there to harden the tape like dipping them in ice water. That's why I think both are equally as bad cause in my mind tape is trying to deceive while plaster is more obvious.


i stand corrected. thanks for the link.

richardsons' quotes have been contradicting on the trinidad matter.

wet wraps....or soaking them in plaster paris....that is a serious crime and should be punishable by a lifetime ban.

nysac is better than most....but you're right...that's not saying much.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 7 2012, 06:44 PM) *
i stand corrected. thanks for the link.

richardsons' quotes have been contradicting on the trinidad matter.

wet wraps....or soaking them in plaster paris....that is a serious crime and should be punishable by a lifetime ban.

nysac is better than most....but you're right...that's not saying much.

Exactly! But these stupid ass boxing politics interfere. Marg should have been fined and banned so he couldn't earn another penny
Franchize
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 6 2012, 05:04 PM) *
what you are talking about is when the tape is rolled between the fingers. that's something different and doesn't add to anything. it protrudes past the knuckle....and yes, that is illegal.

again....trinidad wrapped his hands without the other corner being present. they re-wrapped his hands in the same manner. richardson accused them of stacking....(tape, then gauze, then tape..) but if they did anything illegal, there would have been punishment by the commission like what resto and margarito had. same goes for pac.


Well For Pacquiao, he DEFINITELY rolled at least 1 inch of tape between his fingers in his fight with Margacheato. If it doesn't help....why do it?

But Plaster of Paris wraps has to be the worst offense. Think about it. Essentially, you're beating someone with a cast.

mgrover
the plaster takes it by a mile
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Nov 8 2012, 09:12 AM) *
Well For Pacquiao, he DEFINITELY rolled at least 1 inch of tape between his fingers in his fight with Margacheato. If it doesn't help....why do it?

But Plaster of Paris wraps has to be the worst offense. Think about it. Essentially, you're beating someone with a cast.


if you've ever had your hands wrapped...rolling the tape between you fingers is less serious than stacking. some believe it makes it easier to cut an opponent....but through the padding of an 8oz glove....i'm not so sure. i'd encourage any of u guys to test it yourselves and see the difference.

as for the plaster of paris....you will get no argument from me on that one. also....try wetting some gauze....that can have similar effects.

i won't name any names....but i know from experience that some trainers use some very sly tricks to give their fighters an unfair advantage with illegal wraps. that shit is no joke and even happens in the amateurs.
Franchize
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 8 2012, 09:36 PM) *
if you've ever had your hands wrapped...rolling the tape between you fingers is less serious than stacking. some believe it makes it easier to cut an opponent....but through the padding of an 8oz glove....i'm not so sure. i'd encourage any of u guys to test it yourselves and see the difference.

as for the plaster of paris....you will get no argument from me on that one. also....try wetting some gauze....that can have similar effects.

i won't name any names....but i know from experience that some trainers use some very sly tricks to give their fighters an unfair advantage with illegal wraps. that shit is no joke and even happens in the amateurs.


I'm not comparing it to stacking. Stacking is worse. Just LOOKING at stacking, you can tell that. But rolling tape between your knuckles should be illegal also. IMO, wrapping your hands should only be there to protect your hands. The wraps should not have ANY type of advantage and why nobody has made more of a fuss about it baffles me. I also think there should be a uniformed way of wrapping your hands. Either that, or have a neutral person wrap them. I know fighters like it done a "certain way" but fuck that. That shit is dangerous.

I'm not a fighter (at least not in te ring lol) so I'm sure you have more stories than I do but some of the ones I heard:
freezing the tape
spraying the tape and gauze with athlete's foot spray like Tinactin or something.
spraying the knucklepad with the clear epoxy you use to treat concrete and granite countertops
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Nov 9 2012, 08:48 AM) *
I'm not comparing it to stacking. Stacking is worse. Just LOOKING at stacking, you can tell that. But rolling tape between your knuckles should be illegal also. IMO, wrapping your hands should only be there to protect your hands. The wraps should not have ANY type of advantage and why nobody has made more of a fuss about it baffles me. I also think there should be a uniformed way of wrapping your hands. Either that, or have a neutral person wrap them. I know fighters like it done a "certain way" but fuck that. That shit is dangerous.

I'm not a fighter (at least not in te ring lol) so I'm sure you have more stories than I do but some of the ones I heard:
freezing the tape
spraying the tape and gauze with athlete's foot spray like Tinactin or something.
spraying the knucklepad with the clear epoxy you use to treat concrete and granite countertops


i don't believe fighters/trainers should be able to bring their own gauze and tape or pre-wrap. i'd like to see commissions supply these items the day of the fight and have them in their possession all the way until it's time for the fighters to have their hands wrapped. it differs from state to state...but there are rules. coming in with pre-made pads and stuff like that should be banned. doing this stuff can be time consuming. they just need to get there a little earlier to get it done. that would resolve a lot of issues. also....there should be no talking between inspectors/officials unless it concerns the rules. some of these guys buddy up to the inspectors and they get so caught up in conversation...it's easy to slide things by them.
Franchize
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 9 2012, 04:27 PM) *
i don't believe fighters/trainers should be able to bring their own gauze and tape or pre-wrap. i'd like to see commissions supply these items the day of the fight and have them in their possession all the way until it's time for the fighters to have their hands wrapped. it differs from state to state...but there are rules. coming in with pre-made pads and stuff like that should be banned. doing this stuff can be time consuming. they just need to get there a little earlier to get it done. that would resolve a lot of issues. also....there should be no talking between inspectors/officials unless it concerns the rules. some of these guys buddy up to the inspectors and they get so caught up in conversation...it's easy to slide things by them.

I agree. There should also be a set type of gauze and tape. Dont you have to leave your gloves overnight? Why not everything? Plus, it may cut down the number of times guys gloves get retaped. Some trainers use shitty tape that constantly unravels...fuckin up the flow of the fight.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 9 2012, 04:27 PM) *
i don't believe fighters/trainers should be able to bring their own gauze and tape or pre-wrap. i'd like to see commissions supply these items the day of the fight and have them in their possession all the way until it's time for the fighters to have their hands wrapped. it differs from state to state...but there are rules. coming in with pre-made pads and stuff like that should be banned. doing this stuff can be time consuming. they just need to get there a little earlier to get it done. that would resolve a lot of issues. also....there should be no talking between inspectors/officials unless it concerns the rules. some of these guys buddy up to the inspectors and they get so caught up in conversation...it's easy to slide things by them.



QUOTE (Franchize @ Nov 10 2012, 09:31 AM) *
I agree. There should also be a set type of gauze and tape. Dont you have to leave your gloves overnight? Why not everything? Plus, it may cut down the number of times guys gloves get retaped. Some trainers use shitty tape that constantly unravels...fuckin up the flow of the fight.


This would be great if implemented. But I bet the comissions don't do this so that if something fishy does go on they won't have to take responsibility, as in the Resto case when the family sued the commission after.
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