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mitukczuk
So recently I had only a few hours for my almost regular "revisited" sunday mood swings. I decided to spend these on Felix Trinidad's fights this time.
I watched vs. Jones, vs. De la Hoya, vs. Mayorga and of course one from the top 3 fights I have ever seen..vs. Hopkins.

As I was watching vs. Vargas fight, I couldnt unnotice the aura and energy that fight had. Trinidad's fans were die hard unbreakable and if you add Mexican/Puerto-Rican rivalry to the mix, that by itself promises a good scrap. Not to mention when two awesome fighters are executing it.

First of all, let me just say that I have always liked Vargas. He was/is a cocky mofo, but I always felt that he is a good kid. His boxing ability wasn't perfect however, even though it wasn't a "flashy" ability, he was able to make adjustments in the fight and he always put it all on the line.

There are stories and fairy tales about Trinidad's left hook, so I will not get into that one. What surprised me the most in all his fights is, how a good jab could keep him totally of balance. (Hopkins fight is a prime example) At times when Vargas used his jab, it really caused some trouble in Trinidad's game and Vargas was capitilizing on that.

The fight - I will not go round by round, but there are some things that I feel should be said.

1 rd - Trinidad caught Vargas right on the money and it had me on the edge of my seat. Vargas was clearly a little cold. BUT, I loved the way he stood his ground, cleared his head while being completely flat-footed!! and fought back! Memorable!
3 rd - I HATE seeing intentional low blows and even more when they land repeatedly. Although I didn't think Trinidad was focusing on hitting Vargas low I think he landed some in all his fights, which makes me wonder.
4 rd - Man oh MAN ! What a surprise seeing Trinidad on his ass. I LOVED the way he stood up and was eager to go back at it! True warrior spirit! And then AGAIN, low blow...and in that situation I think Trinidad wanted to hit him.
12 rd - Classic Trinidad left hooks. Vargas got over-excited and paid the ultimate price. First KD was a flash one, same as the one in the 1st rd, but the second...devastating. Once your head swings like that, its over. Right hand to seal the 3kd and the end of the fight was just a cherry on the pie.

To conclude - Loved the fight!! Vargas was rushed early on in his career, which ultimately cost him his career, imo. Lot of ability wasted because of that. He could have been a great champion. On the other hand, it was clearly Tito's night and he deserved the victory.
Cshel86
Gotta love these revisited threads Mit! Be back later, haven't watched this one in a while.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Nov 4 2012, 07:39 AM) *
So recently I had only a few hours for my almost regular "revisited" sunday mood swings. I decided to spend these on Felix Trinidad's fights this time.
I watched vs. Jones, vs. De la Hoya, vs. Mayorga and of course one from the top 3 fights I have ever seen..vs. Hopkins.

As I was watching vs. Vargas fight, I couldnt unnotice the aura and energy that fight had. Trinidad's fans were die hard unbreakable and if you add Mexican/Puerto-Rican rivalry to the mix, that by itself promises a good scrap. Not to mention when two awesome fighters are executing it.

First of all, let me just say that I have always liked Vargas. He was/is a cocky mofo, but I always felt that he is a good kid. His boxing ability wasn't perfect however, even though it wasn't a "flashy" ability, he was able to make adjustments in the fight and he always put it all on the line.

There are stories and fairy tales about Trinidad's left hook, so I will not get into that one. What surprised me the most in all his fights is, how a good jab could keep him totally of balance. (Hopkins fight is a prime example) At times when Vargas used his jab, it really caused some trouble in Trinidad's game and Vargas was capitilizing on that.

The fight - I will not go round by round, but there are some things that I feel should be said.

1 rd - Trinidad caught Vargas right on the money and it had me on the edge of my seat. Vargas was clearly a little cold. BUT, I loved the way he stood his ground, cleared his head while being completely flat-footed!! and fought back! Memorable!
3 rd - I HATE seeing intentional low blows and even more when they land repeatedly. Although I didn't think Trinidad was focusing on hitting Vargas low I think he landed some in all his fights, which makes me wonder.
4 rd - Man oh MAN ! What a surprise seeing Trinidad on his ass. I LOVED the way he stood up and was eager to go back at it! True warrior spirit! And then AGAIN, low blow...and in that situation I think Trinidad wanted to hit him.
12 rd - Classic Trinidad left hooks. Vargas got over-excited and paid the ultimate price. First KD was a flash one, same as the one in the 1st rd, but the second...devastating. Once your head swings like that, its over. Right hand to seal the 3kd and the end of the fight was just a cherry on the pie.

To conclude - Loved the fight!! Vargas was rushed early on in his career, which ultimately cost him his career, imo. Lot of ability wasted because of that. He could have been a great champion. On the other hand, it was clearly Tito's night and he deserved the victory.



Without a doubt one of my all time favorite fights, and like you, I too feel that Vargas was rushed into this fight too early. One very big thing you may have overlooked in this fight is that prior to the beginning of this bout Tito said that he'd KO Fernando in the 1st round and he nearly did. In fact, the only thing that saved Vargas from being KO'd was the fact that Nady either forgot the rules which were NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT and he gave Fernando two of them one after each knockdown.
On the first KD, Tito was immediately ready to go right back to work on Vargas as he arose because he (Tito) knew the rules stated "NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT" but Nady made Trinidad stand back into the corner thus giving Fernando more precious seconds after the knockdown (which took him 8 seconds to get up) and then add in another 8 seconds for the count once he arose and that is 16 seconds on the 1st KD alone.
On the 2nd KD, Tito instantly goes to a Neutral Corner because he knew Nady would've made him go anyway and again Jay Nady gave Vargas another 8 seconds after he arose along with making him walk to him and asking him if he's ok which amounted to nearly 30 total seconds to clear his head.

I believe had Nady allowed the fight to continue without the STANDING EIGHT COUNTS that Trinidad would've gotten his 1st round KO that he promised because he (Tito) was coming hard until Nady forced him into a neutral corner.

Still and all it was a tremendous fight and hats off to the young Vargas for giving it his all.
checkleft
I liked this fight hadn't seen it in a long while tho. But I have to admit I am bias towards tito, his camp has admitted to using knuckle padded wraps (rolls of tape and gause over the knuckle) for his entire career. Lost a lot of respect for him because of that, it basically protects your hands and makes you punch much harder. Very good fight tho
daprofessor
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Nov 4 2012, 08:39 AM) *
So recently I had only a few hours for my almost regular "revisited" sunday mood swings. I decided to spend these on Felix Trinidad's fights this time.
I watched vs. Jones, vs. De la Hoya, vs. Mayorga and of course one from the top 3 fights I have ever seen..vs. Hopkins.

As I was watching vs. Vargas fight, I couldnt unnotice the aura and energy that fight had. Trinidad's fans were die hard unbreakable and if you add Mexican/Puerto-Rican rivalry to the mix, that by itself promises a good scrap. Not to mention when two awesome fighters are executing it.

First of all, let me just say that I have always liked Vargas. He was/is a cocky mofo, but I always felt that he is a good kid. His boxing ability wasn't perfect however, even though it wasn't a "flashy" ability, he was able to make adjustments in the fight and he always put it all on the line.

There are stories and fairy tales about Trinidad's left hook, so I will not get into that one. What surprised me the most in all his fights is, how a good jab could keep him totally of balance. (Hopkins fight is a prime example) At times when Vargas used his jab, it really caused some trouble in Trinidad's game and Vargas was capitilizing on that.

The fight - I will not go round by round, but there are some things that I feel should be said.

1 rd - Trinidad caught Vargas right on the money and it had me on the edge of my seat. Vargas was clearly a little cold. BUT, I loved the way he stood his ground, cleared his head while being completely flat-footed!! and fought back! Memorable!
3 rd - I HATE seeing intentional low blows and even more when they land repeatedly. Although I didn't think Trinidad was focusing on hitting Vargas low I think he landed some in all his fights, which makes me wonder.
4 rd - Man oh MAN ! What a surprise seeing Trinidad on his ass. I LOVED the way he stood up and was eager to go back at it! True warrior spirit! And then AGAIN, low blow...and in that situation I think Trinidad wanted to hit him.
12 rd - Classic Trinidad left hooks. Vargas got over-excited and paid the ultimate price. First KD was a flash one, same as the one in the 1st rd, but the second...devastating. Once your head swings like that, its over. Right hand to seal the 3kd and the end of the fight was just a cherry on the pie.

To conclude - Loved the fight!! Vargas was rushed early on in his career, which ultimately cost him his career, imo. Lot of ability wasted because of that. He could have been a great champion. On the other hand, it was clearly Tito's night and he deserved the victory.


overall...not a bad assessment. i don't agree with everything though...for one...vargas rushed himself. he's the one that wanted the fight...and his ppl should have protected him. the low blow wasn't as bad as it seemed and vargas should have taken a shorter break to pick up where he left off. listening to kathy duva of all ppl was a mistake. she was ringside yelling for him to take the full 5 minutes. the fight had swung in varas' direction at that point and he should have went right back to work. poor kid was never the same after that loss.

trinidad/hopkins is on your top 3? huh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 5 2012, 02:09 AM) *
I liked this fight hadn't seen it in a long while tho. But I have to admit I am bias towards tito, his camp has admitted to using knuckle padded wraps (rolls of tape and gause over the knuckle) for his entire career. Lost a lot of respect for him because of that, it basically protects your hands and makes you punch much harder. Very good fight tho


misinformation. that's not the case. they re-wrapped the hands because one of his hands was already wrapped when nazim got there. what don felix said was they had been wrapping his hands the same way his whole career. if he was stacking...as was suggested by nazim who wasn't there to see the first hand wrapped....the commission would have said something. stacking (tap/padding/tape) is illegal in most states but a look further into the rules of wrapping hands will show you that they differ in different states. also...if it were illegal, there would have been investigations and suspensions handed down. nothing like that ever happened. nysac is on of the best in the country and they run a tight ship.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Nov 4 2012, 11:01 PM) *
Without a doubt one of my all time favorite fights, and like you, I too feel that Vargas was rushed into this fight too early. One very big thing you may have overlooked in this fight is that prior to the beginning of this bout Tito said that he'd KO Fernando in the 1st round and he nearly did. In fact, the only thing that saved Vargas from being KO'd was the fact that Nady either forgot the rules which were NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT and he gave Fernando two of them one after each knockdown.
On the first KD, Tito was immediately ready to go right back to work on Vargas as he arose because he (Tito) knew the rules stated "NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT" but Nady made Trinidad stand back into the corner thus giving Fernando more precious seconds after the knockdown (which took him 8 seconds to get up) and then add in another 8 seconds for the count once he arose and that is 16 seconds on the 1st KD alone.
On the 2nd KD, Tito instantly goes to a Neutral Corner because he knew Nady would've made him go anyway and again Jay Nady gave Vargas another 8 seconds after he arose along with making him walk to him and asking him if he's ok which amounted to nearly 30 total seconds to clear his head.

I believe had Nady allowed the fight to continue without the STANDING EIGHT COUNTS that Trinidad would've gotten his 1st round KO that he promised because he (Tito) was coming hard until Nady forced him into a neutral corner.

Still and all it was a tremendous fight and hats off to the young Vargas for giving it his all.


i think u are misunderstanding what a "standing 8 count" is...

if the fighter is dropped....the ref has to count....if the fighter gets up before the 10 count....which they do most times...the ref will continue the count to 8, then allow the fight to continue.

a standing 8 count is when i fighter is hurt or buckled...and the ref jumps in to administer a count even though a fighter hasn't gone down.
mitukczuk
You got a point, Professor. And by no chance I was trying to make a perfect assessment of the fight.

However, it doesn't matter whether he himself rushed himself or it was his team, the thing is...he was too young and inexperienced. The fact that he was more than eager to get into the ring with guys like Trinidad, De La Hoya is a completely different story. His ego was writing checks his fists couldn't cash.

The point I was trying to make about these low blows was not to point out that they were devastating. Only devastating low blow I have ever seen was the ballsack crusher one that Gerry Cooney landed on Holmes. Back to the topic....Trinidad has a history of punching low in critical situations.

Trinidad/Hopkins top 3 ? Easily! I love that fight.
flazi
one of my favorite fights. i thought vargas was done after the 2nd kd but he got up and showed his great heart. Trinidad went down and got up too. both great hearts but like merchant said, vargas bit off more than he could chew with trinidad. Trinidad was a beast at 154.
hitman
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Nov 5 2012, 12:01 AM) *
Without a doubt one of my all time favorite fights, and like you, I too feel that Vargas was rushed into this fight too early. One very big thing you may have overlooked in this fight is that prior to the beginning of this bout Tito said that he'd KO Fernando in the 1st round and he nearly did. In fact, the only thing that saved Vargas from being KO'd was the fact that Nady either forgot the rules which were NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT and he gave Fernando two of them one after each knockdown.
On the first KD, Tito was immediately ready to go right back to work on Vargas as he arose because he (Tito) knew the rules stated "NO STANDING EIGHT COUNT" but Nady made Trinidad stand back into the corner thus giving Fernando more precious seconds after the knockdown (which took him 8 seconds to get up) and then add in another 8 seconds for the count once he arose and that is 16 seconds on the 1st KD alone.
On the 2nd KD, Tito instantly goes to a Neutral Corner because he knew Nady would've made him go anyway and again Jay Nady gave Vargas another 8 seconds after he arose along with making him walk to him and asking him if he's ok which amounted to nearly 30 total seconds to clear his head.

I believe had Nady allowed the fight to continue without the STANDING EIGHT COUNTS that Trinidad would've gotten his 1st round KO that he promised because he (Tito) was coming hard until Nady forced him into a neutral corner.

Still and all it was a tremendous fight and hats off to the young Vargas for giving it his all.


a standing 8 count is for a fighter that is hurt but not knocked down. a mandatory 8 count is for a fighter after he gets knocked down.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Nov 5 2012, 03:18 PM) *
You got a point, Professor. And by no chance I was trying to make a perfect assessment of the fight.

However, it doesn't matter whether he himself rushed himself or it was his team, the thing is...he was too young and inexperienced. The fact that he was more than eager to get into the ring with guys like Trinidad, De La Hoya is a completely different story. His ego was writing checks his fists couldn't cash.

The point I was trying to make about these low blows was not to point out that they were devastating. Only devastating low blow I have ever seen was the ballsack crusher one that Gerry Cooney landed on Holmes. Back to the topic....Trinidad has a history of punching low in critical situations.

Trinidad/Hopkins top 3 ? Easily! I love that fight.


true.

as for the low blows...he did seem to have a habit...but that particular low blow wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. vargas 'zab judah'd' that moment and should have went right back to work. the break cost him imo.

trinidad/hopkins was a beautiful display of hopkins' skills against a flat trinidad. the postponement of that fight killed it for me. it wasn't what it could have been. i was amazed at bhop's accuracy in his prediction more than anything.


Cshel86
I always thought Trinidad was a dirty fighter, and nothing has changed my mind since. My thing is, if a guy gets the best of you and drops you, you don't get right back up and hit him with a blatant low blow.

Who knows, Fernando could've possibly finished Tito, but again, who knows. Tito just had nasty power in both hands, but he had those "strike anywhere matche"s for legs, so he didn't take it well to the chin.

I can't say that a part of me didn't fade when Vargas hit the deck...I was rooting for dude. Though I didn't watch that fight on the night it originally aired, and already knew the results, I was STILL rooting for Vargas. Yeah I know, call me sensitive. laugh.gif

They DID rush Vargas's career, and judging by the look in his eyes when Tito dropped him, told it all. He had that "Holy shit, why am I in the ring with this dude" look on his face, but his resolve wouldn't let him go out. With fights of that magnitude, it can either break a fighter in, or break them completely...sadly, it was the latter for Vargas.

Anyhow, that will always be a great scrap, though Tito didn't take his licks like a man. Clinching and holding when you're hurt, doesn't make you any less of a man...I'm sure Miguel learned that after the Margarito and Pacquiao fight.

daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 6 2012, 08:51 AM) *
I always thought Trinidad was a dirty fighter, and nothing has changed my mind since. My thing is, if a guy gets the best of you and drops you, you don't get right back up and hit him with a blatant low blow.

Who knows, Fernando could've possibly finished Tito, but again, who knows. Tito just had nasty power in both hands, but he had those "strike anywhere matche"s for legs, so he didn't take it well to the chin.

I can't say that a part of me didn't fade when Vargas hit the deck...I was rooting for dude. Though I didn't watch that fight on the night it originally aired, and already knew the results, I was STILL rooting for Vargas. Yeah I know, call me sensitive. laugh.gif

They DID rush Vargas's career, and judging by the look in his eyes when Tito dropped him, told it all. He had that "Holy shit, why am I in the ring with this dude" look on his face, but his resolve wouldn't let him go out. With fights of that magnitude, it can either break a fighter in, or break them completely...sadly, it was the latter for Vargas.

Anyhow, that will always be a great scrap, though Tito didn't take his licks like a man. Clinching and holding when you're hurt, doesn't make you any less of a man...I'm sure Miguel learned that after the Margarito and Pacquiao fight.


tito could be dirty...not in the bhop sense...he usually landed those low blows when he was in trouble. bhop seemed to be dirty for the sake of being dirty. either way....it can be said that both did whatever it took to win. i think tito's going to be a first ballot hof'er.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 6 2012, 08:51 AM) *
I always thought Trinidad was a dirty fighter, and nothing has changed my mind since. My thing is, if a guy gets the best of you and drops you, you don't get right back up and hit him with a blatant low blow.

Who knows, Fernando could've possibly finished Tito, but again, who knows. Tito just had nasty power in both hands, but he had those "strike anywhere matche"s for legs, so he didn't take it well to the chin.

I can't say that a part of me didn't fade when Vargas hit the deck...I was rooting for dude. Though I didn't watch that fight on the night it originally aired, and already knew the results, I was STILL rooting for Vargas. Yeah I know, call me sensitive. laugh.gif

They DID rush Vargas's career, and judging by the look in his eyes when Tito dropped him, told it all. He had that "Holy shit, why am I in the ring with this dude" look on his face, but his resolve wouldn't let him go out. With fights of that magnitude, it can either break a fighter in, or break them completely...sadly, it was the latter for Vargas.

Anyhow, that will always be a great scrap, though Tito didn't take his licks like a man. Clinching and holding when you're hurt, doesn't make you any less of a man...I'm sure Miguel learned that after the Margarito and Pacquiao fight.


tito could be dirty...not in the bhop sense...he usually landed those low blows when he was in trouble. bhop seemed to be dirty for the sake of being dirty. either way....it can be said that both did whatever it took to win. i think tito's going to be a first ballot hof'er.
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