Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Ali Bashir Spits the Real....
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Cshel86
http://www.fighthype.com/news/article13672.html

I love to hear what trainers have to say about other fighters and their corners...this interview is spot on! Bashir talks about Banks's won over Seth Mitchell, and how Mitchell's fight game is flawed, as well as his corner. Good stuff.

He also went into to detail about Berto's career, that ugly shoulder roll, that weak game plan, and his corner...which I found very interesting. We haven't heard much from Berto or his people since the fight, and Bashir made a GREAT point about him simply needing to fire the whole freakin' squad of ass clowns who are ruining him.

Good read!
Franchize
Mitchell should have known better than to have Uncle Phil form Fresh Prince in his corner laugh.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (Franchize @ Nov 28 2012, 10:18 AM) *
Mitchell should have known better than to have Uncle Phil form Fresh Prince in his corner laugh.gif

I already the great amount of disdain that you have towards hometown trainers laugh.gif
sduck
Well it's typical stuff in the business, like failed strategies/opportunities. Fighters like Berto and Mitchell are just a classic case of promoted/hyped up fighters who don't have it. Trainers can make a difference, but honestly, for most fighters it won't make a big difference, if any at all.
daprofessor
QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 02:25 PM) *
Well it's typical stuff in the business, like failed strategies/opportunities. Fighters like Berto and Mitchell are just a classic case of promoted/hyped up fighters who don't have it. Trainers can make a difference, but honestly, for most fighters it won't make a big difference, if any at all.


do u think great fighters happen by accident? do u think it's coincidence that certain trainers continuously have success with different fighters? great fighters are not born knowing all this stuff. it's great teachers/trainers and it's attention to details that separate the good from the great. berto and mitchell both have great potential and are clearly athletes. what's missing is the expertise in the corners and in the gym.
Cshel86
QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 01:25 PM) *
Well it's typical stuff in the business, like failed strategies/opportunities. Fighters like Berto and Mitchell are just a classic case of promoted/hyped up fighters who don't have it. Trainers can make a difference, but honestly, for most fighters it won't make a big difference, if any at all.

I agree with the failed strategies/opportunities...it happens. Honestly, I'm tired of the whole football player-turned- boxer mess as well (in Seth's case), but I'd be lying if I said that he isn't a reason that my interest is gravitating back to HW boxing.

He and Berto are limited in some areas...my belief is that Seth is limited, and Berto knows more, but chooses not to utilize it for some odd reason (like Maidana). One thing's for sure, ALL fighters are offensive and would LOVE to be the one landing the punches, and not the guy on the receiving end.

Anyhow, ANYBODY can focus just on offense, but brush defense off. Besides, how much defense do you truly need, if you're the one punching/knocking out everyone in front of you? Berto and Mitchell need to learn some defense and be taught more ring intelligence. It's painfully obvious that neither of them are comfortable in every inch of the ring.

Their chins are the probably, but learning defense and ring intelligence can keep them out of the Glass Chin Squad until further notice.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:58 PM) *
I agree with the failed strategies/opportunities...it happens. Honestly, I'm tired of the whole football player-turned- boxer mess as well (in Seth's case), but I'd be lying if I said that he isn't a reason that my interest is gravitating back to HW boxing.

He and Berto are limited in some areas...my belief is that Seth is limited, and Berto knows more, but chooses not to utilize it for some odd reason (like Maidana). One thing's for sure, ALL fighters are offensive and would LOVE to be the one landing the punches, and not the guy on the receiving end.

Anyhow, ANYBODY can focus just on offense, but brush defense off. Besides, how much defense do you truly need, if you're the one punching/knocking out everyone in front of you? Berto and Mitchell need to learn some defense and be taught more ring intelligence. It's painfully obvious that neither of them are comfortable in every inch of the ring.

Their chins are the probably, but learning defense and ring intelligence can keep them out of the Glass Chin Squad until further notice.


don't give up just yet. there are two ex-football players on the horizon who i believe will be making serious noise in the future. dominic brazealle and gerald washington. dominic was a quarterback for colorado and gerald played for usc. these guys are serious students of the game and have been developing well imo. give them a couple of years...and they both will be threats. they're both 6'5-6'6 and about 230-250. very athletic boxers.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:48 PM) *
do u think great fighters happen by accident? do u think it's coincidence that certain trainers continuously have success with different fighters? great fighters are not born knowing all this stuff. it's great teachers/trainers and it's attention to details that separate the good from the great. berto and mitchell both have great potential and are clearly athletes. what's missing is the expertise in the corners and in the gym.

What about berto's chin and balance? The KD's didn't come from power punches, he needs a lot of work. At what stage is it too late for a fighter to change old habits?
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 02:03 PM) *
don't give up just yet. there are two ex-football players on the horizon who i believe will be making serious noise in the future. dominic brazealle and gerald washington. dominic was a quarterback for colorado and gerald played for usc. these guys are serious students of the game and have been developing well imo. give them a couple of years...and they both will be threats. they're both 6'5-6'6 and about 230-250. very athletic boxers.

What ever happened to that cat that played for the Ravens? Last i heard of him, was on that crappy Cotto/Mayorga undercard that I bought. He was pretty good, but got busted with weed, and I haven't heard much from him since.

I think I have my reservations about the ex-football player stuff, because of the whole muscle factor. As we all know, muscles are oxygen eaters, and these dudes had to have enough muscle to compete on the football field, so them fairing well in boxing has always been a bit edgy to me. Just my thoughts though.

As for Berto, dude has NO LEGS. As soon as he gets backed onto the ropes, you can forget it. Dude's feet were off the canvas all night was week...dude was a ballerina on his tippy toes all night. Looks like him and Guerrero dancing at a prom at one point...Berto's feet were all over the place. Lol
sduck
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 01:48 PM) *
do u think great fighters happen by accident? do u think it's coincidence that certain trainers continuously have success with different fighters? great fighters are not born knowing all this stuff. it's great teachers/trainers and it's attention to details that separate the good from the great. berto and mitchell both have great potential and are clearly athletes. what's missing is the expertise in the corners and in the gym.

I was mainly making my statement on the subject of switching trainers. Trainers can make a merit of difference, but most of any potential is based on the fighter. That shouldn't even be doubtful, the fact that most trainers have different fighters who are all of different potential pretty much confirms this.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Nov 28 2012, 03:13 PM) *
What about berto's chin and balance? The KD's didn't come from power punches, he needs a lot of work. At what stage is it too late for a fighter to change old habits?


the thing is...u can't fix his chin...but u can teach him to avoid being hit on the chin. his balance...his defense....his tension...those are all things that can be corrected with the proper focus and technique. it takes patience, intelligence...and the will to make those changes. the knockdowns came because he was too straight up and did nothing to stop guerrero from attacking. very simple solutions that his trainer doesn't have the capability of teaching. i think ali bashir hit the nail on the head with his assessment.
daprofessor
QUOTE (sduck @ Nov 28 2012, 03:44 PM) *
I was mainly making my statement on the subject of switching trainers. Trainers can make a merit of difference, but most of any potential is based on the fighter. That shouldn't even be doubtful, the fact that most trainers have different fighters who are all of different potential pretty much confirms this.


i won't argue that....but there are certain trainers who can get more out of a fighter than others.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 02:03 PM) *
don't give up just yet. there are two ex-football players on the horizon who i believe will be making serious noise in the future. dominic brazealle and gerald washington. dominic was a quarterback for colorado and gerald played for usc. these guys are serious students of the game and have been developing well imo. give them a couple of years...and they both will be threats. they're both 6'5-6'6 and about 230-250. very athletic boxers.

Football players just don't fit the boxing role skill-wise. Football is more about raw athletic ability and strength, boxing is a small percentage of thay and a lot of skill and brains. That's why people have often said basketball players make the best boxers. Basketball players have the coordination and a lot of times the intelligence to be fit for the ring. Manny Floyd and mosley supposedly are great basketball players, and a lot of NBA players train in boxing because it helps them with their coordination (Ron artest, David west).
sduck
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 02:55 PM) *
i won't argue that....but there are certain trainers who can get more out of a fighter than others.

Very true... There could be a trainer out there that can increase the potential of Berto and Mitchell like no other trainer could. Hell, maybe with the right trainer and the right discipline, Mitchell could learn some skills good enough to protect that chin and cast him above the Klitschkos. Skill-wise both Berto and Mitchell are horrid. I'm not sure about the past experience for those two, but most fighters have amateur, pre-professional, and post-professional experience, hell many even pre-amateur. However, if your game isn't solid by professional, than most-likely it won't get much (or any) better.
Gambit808
Definitely a good read!

How is it that, the camera can be in the corner and you hear Berto's Brother (loud and clear), the cutman, you hear the trainer & STILL don't have 2 listen close to hear a loud Hatian accent in the middle of all of that... that be Berto's father by the way.

Don't know how much or if this fight took much outta Berto, but I think he can still be a force with the right people in his corner. Bashir made it even more clear.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Nov 28 2012, 06:34 PM) *
Definitely a good read!

How is it that, the camera can be in the corner and you hear Berto's Brother (loud and clear), the cutman, you hear the trainer & STILL don't have 2 listen close to hear a loud Hatian accent in the middle of all of that... that be Berto's father by the way.

Don't know how much or if this fight took much outta Berto, but I think he can still be a force with the right people in his corner. Bashir made it even more clear.

Tell me about it! I hear that Haitian mumbo jumbo from miles away...all through the fight. Tony Morgan gets no respect in the corner, and that's clear as day. Oddly enough, his brother wasn't doing all of that talking (with that white shit around his mouth) this time around...or do I need to go back and watch again? Lol

I'm hoping that this fight didn't take much out him, but I'm almost afraid to admit that I think the damage was done. Lord willing, he doesn't have any orbital injuries and that was just common swelling. If he doesn't have any long-term injuries, then he should be okay....AFTER he hires a new corner.

He still has the Ortiz rematch, an Alexander fight, Bradley (possibly, due to Berto's new alliance with GBP), Maidana (who will fight for chump change), and a couple of others. He seriously needs to go back and fight Guerrero again, because as Bashir said, Berto made it waaay too easy for Guerrero to take that fight away from him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 28 2012, 04:05 PM) *
Football players just don't fit the boxing role skill-wise. Football is more about raw athletic ability and strength, boxing is a small percentage of thay and a lot of skill and brains. That's why people have often said basketball players make the best boxers. Basketball players have the coordination and a lot of times the intelligence to be fit for the ring. Manny Floyd and mosley supposedly are great basketball players, and a lot of NBA players train in boxing because it helps them with their coordination (Ron artest, David west).


i've trained professional basketball players, football players and a baseball player. it depends on the individual. i can't agree with what you're saying.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Tell me about it! I hear that Haitian mumbo jumbo from miles away...all through the fight. Tony Morgan gets no respect in the corner, and that's clear as day. Oddly enough, his brother wasn't doing all of that talking (with that white shit around his mouth) this time around...or do I need to go back and watch again? Lol

I'm hoping that this fight didn't take much out him, but I'm almost afraid to admit that I think the damage was done. Lord willing, he doesn't have any orbital injuries and that was just common swelling. If he doesn't have any long-term injuries, then he should be okay....AFTER he hires a new corner.

He still has the Ortiz rematch, an Alexander fight, Bradley (possibly, due to Berto's new alliance with GBP), Maidana (who will fight for chump change), and a couple of others. He seriously needs to go back and fight Guerrero again, because as Bashir said, Berto made it waaay too easy for Guerrero to take that fight away from him.


i hate to be the one to break it to u...but berto is not coming back from this. his already fragile ego took a big shot in the ortiz bout...now this....more than physical damage...i see psychological damage that can't/won't be undone. that was a sustained beating over several rounds...they don't come back from those. that's not to say he can't make money...or be a gate keeper. i don't believe he'll ever be at the level he was prior to the ortiz fight...even with an amazing corner. i'd love to see him prove me wrong though. he seems like a really good dude.
Cheesey1
I agree with the argument that a skilled trainer, in the camp of a boxer who is willing to listen and has the physical ability, can make a material difference. If Berto gets with the program, he can salvage things.
As poor as his strategy was, if he hadn't suffered the two early knockdowns, who knows what would've happened.

Will he be a top five welterweight? Maybe not, but IMO he can still compete at the that level, if he sorts things out. His father and brother need to stop thinking it's about them.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 08:20 PM) *
i hate to be the one to break it to u...but berto is not coming back from this. his already fragile ego took a big shot in the ortiz bout...now this....more than physical damage...i see psychological damage that can't/won't be undone. that was a sustained beating over several rounds...they don't come back from those. that's not to say he can't make money...or be a gate keeper. i don't believe he'll ever be at the level he was prior to the ortiz fight...even with an amazing corner. i'd love to see him prove me wrong though. he seems like a really good dude.

You don't believe that he beat himself, in a few ways?

I always knew that Berto would be a gate keeper in the sport, and yes, he still has some money fights left in him, if he's able to keep himself composed in his upcoming. Those beatings over several rounds DO put miles on a fighter....ask Hatton about the Floyd fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 28 2012, 09:54 PM) *
You don't believe that he beat himself, in a few ways?

I always knew that Berto would be a gate keeper in the sport, and yes, he still has some money fights left in him, if he's able to keep himself composed in his upcoming. Those beatings over several rounds DO put miles on a fighter....ask Hatton about the Floyd fight.


whether he beat himself is besides the point...he took a beating more than once and that can't be undone. he obviously learned absolutely nothing from the first beating. so in that regard...yeah, he beat himself. he needs a good break...and some serious re-tooling. he'll have to get rid of his trainer and bring in someone far more experienced with more understanding. i can see him making money...but they would have to give him serious favorable treatment to bring him back to get where he was before. he doesn't have the right promoter or ppl behind him to make that happen.

hatton was taking beatings before the floyd fight. floyd definitely put a serious dent in him...and pacquiao put the final nail in the coffin. he's another guy who learned absolutely nothing from his losses. it's really kind of sad to see the train wrecks. sad.gif
Cheesey1
Boxers can take beatings and come back. As mentioned already, the question is do they learn from the beating and how strong are they psychologically.

Nonetheless, as I said, without those two knockdowns, by no means was it a cake walk for Guerrero. I'd love to see a rematch.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Nov 28 2012, 09:17 PM) *
whether he beat himself is besides the point...he took a beating more than once and that can't be undone. he obviously learned absolutely nothing from the first beating. so in that regard...yeah, he beat himself. he needs a good break...and some serious re-tooling. he'll have to get rid of his trainer and bring in someone far more experienced with more understanding. i can see him making money...but they would have to give him serious favorable treatment to bring him back to get where he was before. he doesn't have the right promoter or ppl behind him to make that happen.

hatton was taking beatings before the floyd fight. floyd definitely put a serious dent in him...and pacquiao put the final nail in the coffin. he's another guy who learned absolutely nothing from his losses. it's really kind of sad to see the train wrecks. sad.gif

Sadly, he's had long enough of a break since the injury and PED mess, so a break's out the window. He has the PERFECT promoter and manager...hence how he made $1.6M after an injury, PED incident, and a long layoff...so the pay is always possible. Im sure a few fighters wouldn't mind taking a pay cut, in order to own the rights to beat him...while he still has a bit of spark left.

Hatton took a beating against Collazo of course, but Floyd put it on him and finished him. Pacquiao's massacre beating didn't make matters any better, lol. Hatton's had his huge paydays (unlike Berto), so Berto will more than likely fight to be sure that he secures a few more good paydays. Hatton can thank his fan base for making sure that he got his last few paydays.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.