Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: PPV@9PM(ET)/6PM(PT)-Pacquiao-Marquez IV-SPOILERS (Topics Merged)
FightHype Community > OTHER HYPE > Archives
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 9 2012, 06:45 PM) *
I personally think if Marquez comes up clean then people should stop doubting Pac on the PEDs issue.

Never!

It STILL seems fishy...too bad mofos have made waaaay too much money off it to utter a peep. Nobody will ever know the real deal about the latter part of Pac's miraculous career.

Where's Brian Kenny? I wanna punch him in the face for being such a Pacquiao buttsucker. He had nothing but tumbleweed bouncing in his head after Pac beat Oscar and Hatton.

No matter how much you want this "PED bandwagon" to stop, it wont. I want the whole hero complex to stop...that's the public being in desperate need of somebody to vicariously live through in the boxing world, and actually be stupid enough to look past what they're doing.

Im not just speaking on the PED accusation, Im speaking on Team Pac being horrible, vulturous, opportunists, and living off of a man's (Floyd) name, who happens to be too intellectually incapable of speaking his piece without causing an uproar. Instead, he decides to play the buffoon role and totally offset any significant information that he puts out there, in regards to his career and what's really going on in the sport.

I DO agree with you, in regards to wanting this whole Mayweather/Pacquiao saga to come to end...it's hurt boxing in so many ways. The only people that haven't been hurt by it, are the ones who've lined their pockets during the shenanigans.



Cheesey1
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 9 2012, 08:14 PM) *
No doubt....when I saw him sitting there, I thought of Zack Galifinakis after getting KO'd by Tyson, in The Hangover

Ha!
daprofessor
haven't read through the whole thread...but WOW...hO lee sheeeeeeeit!!!! what a beautiful ko by marquez.

i have to revise my votes...

this was KO of the year...

fight of the year....

possibly upset of the year as well. pac was favored to win.

marquez had no intention of winning by decision. he was looking for the knockout. it almost cost him the fight. i loved the way he set up the first knockdown.

i honestly felt bad for pac and jinkee...

i think all the pics ppl are posting are fucked up and disrespectful...but i can't lie, i've chuckled over a few. ppl are stupid.

gamboa had a tough one...but he knocked some of the rust off.

didn't see gesta...but having seen him in the gym, i NEVER thought he was anything special.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 10 2012, 02:05 PM) *
haven't read through the whole thread...but WOW...hO lee sheeeeeeeit!!!! what a beautiful ko by marquez.

i have to revise my votes...

this was KO of the year...

fight of the year....

possibly upset of the year as well. pac was favored to win.

marquez had no intention of winning by decision. he was looking for the knockout. it almost cost him the fight. i loved the way he set up the first knockdown.

i honestly felt bad for pac and jinkee...

i think all the pics ppl are posting are fucked up and disrespectful...but i can't lie, i've chuckled over a few. ppl are stupid.

gamboa had a tough one...but he knocked some of the rust off.

didn't see gesta...but having seen him in the gym, i NEVER thought he was anything special.

So what do you think about broner vs Gamboa. Cause after what I saw I think broner can stop him
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 10 2012, 02:19 PM) *
So what do you think about broner vs Gamboa. Cause after what I saw I think broner can stop him


i talked to broner saturday night at some fights here in cali. i asked him what's next...his answer..."it don't matter." and i have to agree with him. it really doesn't matter who he fights. i'm gonna be watching. the gamboa that fought this past saturday gets beat by broner. if gamboa's ppl have any intelligence...they'll put him in with someone who has a little bit of slickness to prepare him for broner. a hank lundy type of fighter....but if they go straight for broner, they get beat. either way...i'm watching.
mgrover
if anyone wondered why marquez hid a lot of his sparring

Plah
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 10 2012, 03:57 PM) *
if anyone wondered why marquez hid a lot of his sparring


dat timin'
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 10 2012, 02:24 PM) *
i talked to broner saturday night at some fights here in cali. i asked him what's next...his answer..."it don't matter." and i have to agree with him. it really doesn't matter who he fights. i'm gonna be watching. the gamboa that fought this past saturday gets beat by broner. if gamboa's ppl have any intelligence...they'll put him in with someone who has a little bit of slickness to prepare him for broner. a hank lundy type of fighter....but if they go straight for broner, they get beat. either way...i'm watching.

That's crazy you talked to him bro! That's pretty down to earth of him to go out and talk to fans like that, did he hook it up with some pictures or an autograph or something?

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 10 2012, 02:57 PM) *
if anyone wondered why marquez hid a lot of his sparring


That video want hidden at all, it was up for about two months getting posted everywhere. But the punch is almost identical
Jack 1000
In the poll we just added for the interest in a 5th fight, I voted "Not Sure" and want to reaffirm what I said the other day. As my view has not changed:

The Future For Juan and Manny.

I agree that a 5th fight is HUGE. Suppose Marquez's next opponent beats him and this was a lightning in a bottle situation with Manny getting KO'd in the 4th fight. If there isn't a 5th fight, maybe Juan should retire. Because how can he top what he did last night? What a way to go out! The next fight could be a downward spiral for both. Another KO loss for Manny, he's probably through. A tactical Marquez could lose to Bradley takes the shine off the Pacquaio-Marquez V. fight. There is also the age factor. It's almost like Pacquaio and Marquez were made to fight each other. Retirement on such a high note for Juan is probably better. Manny is going to want to avenge that loss. But can he mentally and psychologically recover from such a shocking KO loss?

Jack
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 10 2012, 04:09 PM) *
That's crazy you talked to him bro! That's pretty down to earth of him to go out and talk to fans like that, did he hook it up with some pictures or an autograph or something?


That video want hidden at all, it was up for about two months getting posted everywhere. But the punch is almost identical


he's a cool dude as are most boxing ppl. very approachable...and willing to take pics with anyone. i don't usually take pics with a fighter unless i admire them. broner is going to be a force for a while and he really impressed me against demarco. it wasn't the first time i spoke to him...but it was the first time i took a pic with him.

as for the video and the punch....that was the one that had me modifying my prediction. i know he was sparring with a no name guy...but the sharpness/crispness of that right hand spelled knock down at the very least in my eyes.
mgrover
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 10 2012, 09:09 PM) *
That's crazy you talked to him bro! That's pretty down to earth of him to go out and talk to fans like that, did he hook it up with some pictures or an autograph or something?


That video want hidden at all, it was up for about two months getting posted everywhere. But the punch is almost identical


the gist of a few interviews seem to of given me the idea that he was being pretty secretive about it
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 10 2012, 06:38 PM) *
the gist of a few interviews seem to of given me the idea that he was being pretty secretive about it

I think it was the precious thread for this that I posted it in. But you could definitely see he was working and counting on that punch since early in his camp. But the video has been up for a while, and I think there was a few others with different sparring partners. Heredia had Manuel in beast mode, almost looked like he didn't take a layoff since the last pac fight. Juan really wanted to take this one away from the judges
Plah
No need for a 5th fight.
Genius
Just heard Chris John wants Marquez lol....
daprofessor
QUOTE (Genius @ Dec 10 2012, 08:09 PM) *
Just heard Chris John wants Marquez lol....


so he wants marquez to go over there and drop back down in weight? dude cannot be serious.
Genius
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 10 2012, 07:41 PM) *
so he wants marquez to go over there and drop back down in weight? dude cannot be serious.

He said at any weight but lol at Marquez fighting him over there...the guy is a joke.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Genius @ Dec 10 2012, 08:09 PM) *
Just heard Chris John wants Marquez lol....

Fuck him!
checkleft
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 11 2012, 12:50 AM) *
Fuck him!

Basically
The Original MrFactor
I'd like to see each fight somebody else and then come back to each other. I want to see if Pacquiao can get a win before coming back. I've wanted to see Marquez/Bradley for the last year and a half. Let those two get it on. The question is, what if Bradley wins??
Plah
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 12 2012, 06:36 PM) *
I'd like to see each fight somebody else and then come back to each other. I want to see if Pacquiao can get a win before coming back. I've wanted to see Marquez/Bradley for the last year and a half. Let those two get it on. The question is, what if Bradley wins??

Pac is beating Rios in his next bout. Bradley is NOT beating JMM. And I'm not talking about the JMM that ktfo Pac, I think any version of JMM (from this past decade) beats Bradley.
Jack 1000
On should there be a fight 5?

I vote not sure, and don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. There are good sides and bad sides:

Why a rematch is good:

  • Very few times in modern boxing do we get a series of fights like this. A lot of big names don't fight once.
  • It will draw huge promotion and fan numbers. Fight 4 was a classic, so why not?
  • Manny and Juan seem to be destined to fight each other. They know the styles of each so well.
  • Now the build is that both could drop the other at any time with the power from fight four.


Why a rematch is bad:

  • For Marquez, he can't top what he just did in knocking out Pacquaio. What's left to prove?
  • I have talked to several people who are convinced that both Juan and Manny juiced for this fight. I am not sure.
  • Age is a factor for both men. The fifth fight could be tactical and disappointing.
  • Critics say, no need for a rematch, Juan FINALLY got his deserved win with three other close fights for these great champions. Let them hang it up.
  • What about Manny physiologically after getting KOd like that? This could be negative.


Jack
MaxPayne
Made a lengthy post in another thread about this:

Time for a basic Biology discussion.

A man stops growing in his mid-20's. He reaches peak physical strength in his late 20's. He maintains that strength into his early 30's. From age 35 onward, your testosterone levels fall off and you precipitously lose the athletic ability that you had in your peak years of 27 through 31 or so.

There's a reason why in most sports, people start to fall off from their early 30's onward.

During Marquez's peak years, he was fighting at 126 lbs. This weight class represents the height of his fully grown athletic abilities.

The idea that through weight straining and maintaining a diet, a man can transform his body works in the case of a growing man, who has a frame that is not fully filled and has room to grow, so to speak. This is why athletes can put on 10 - 15 pounds of muscle and gain a lot of strength. A younger body is also able to work out for extended periods of time, as your ability to heal from the weight-training is still great.

As you get older, you lose the ability to recover. Your metabolism slows down. The time taken to heal from injuries gets longer and longer.

There is simply no way that after a certain age, in the sport of boxing, that a man can gain the power needed to hurt naturally larger men.

Marquez fought Pacquiao 3 times before this most recent fights. In all of those fights, he hit Pacquiao with clean, precise and powerful right hand shots. Pacquiao was badly wobbled on several occasions.

However, he never went down and was never hurt to the point of being finished by a barrage of unanswered punches.

This is a critical point.

A 39 year old man suddenly gains the power to knock a man down brutally 2 times at a higher weight class than the one which he fought when he was at his athletic peak. Interesting.

A 39 year old man suddenly has a physique that he never had when his natural testosterone levels were at their highest (body musculature is directly related to the testosterone levels in a man's blood).

A 39 year old man suddenly has the ability to embark on an ambitious Cross Fit style training program that is centered around heavy weight training.

A 39 year old man who has never been known as a devastating one punch knockout power type of fighter suddenly does just that to a man who he has never hurt to that point before, and one who has taken the best shots of larger and stronger men than Marquez.

A 39 year old man who has tried fighting at this weight before only to look sluggish and lacking definite power suddenly gains explosive power.

Floyd Mayweather, in his post 130 lbs. boxing career, has seen a considerable drop in his power, which is natural. You reach a certain power level at your peak and then gradually lose that power over time. He has beaten much larger men because of pure skills and technique. Not through power.

Angel Heredia can say whatever he wants. In this day and age, testing standards are entire generations behind what is available for abuse. Nowadays, people don't even use "steroids". After all, why would you, when you can easily acquire so many steroid pre-cursors that start the process on a much more natural level (stimulating the body to produce more testosterone instead of artificial testosterone introduction).

Of course they're "confident that we would beat any test". It's because the tests are prehistoric.

The only reason I don't feel a sense of outright injustice is that Pacquiao himself has abused performance enhancing drugs, a claim that I may not be able to definitely prove, but which I am willing to absolutely bet my house on.

But once again, the idea that a man who at the twilight of his career can somehow gain the ability to make a dude who he has never truly hurt before do an incredible mattress commercial impersonation, is laughable at best.
Cshel86
Good points Max.

This is one of those seesaw situations, and that's the best way I can put it. As we've all discussed over the past few days:

1. That punch that dropped Manny in the 3rd round, was the SAME punch that stunned him in the first fight. The ropes were there to hold him up and I'm sure his punch resistance was somewhat decent 8 years ago. Was Marquez just stronger? Was his timing just perfect? Was Manny not expecting the punch to land cleanly? Is Manny just not able to take a punch anymore?

2. Those workouts that Marquez were doing...they were good for his body and he seemed revived for the new training style. NOW...some of the weight lifting concerned me, and I thought it was going to work against Marquez. Has he gotten a bit slower? Yes...saw it in the 3rd fight and the Fedchenko fight. He still has good timing for the most part, but he's slower mounting an offense, and sometimes slower at punching back.

3. I've seen older guys that work out harder than me, and some have better bodies than most of us in our 20's. Motivation for a new look? Maybe. I get the whole testosterone discussion too...it just seems that some guys hit that decline faster than others. Let's face it, Marquez has ALWAYS been old. Lol

4. Maybe money was his motivation here. Another huge payday against a guy that he knows how to fight, but yet, is still a threat to him. In the same breath, I cant agree with wanting to "let the world know who really won". I can see if he was getting paid $1M (or lower) for this fight, then he'd really have a reason to be pissed and show people who really won.

5. He basically did the same shit to Manny, that he's done in the previous 3 fights. He just had a bit more muscle to pull it off. I wont lie and say that I didn't think that he was on something, but hell, I just saw the dude do a bunch of somewhat counterproductive workouts and fight a guy that he's fought 3 times. Let's look at this way, most guy have only gotten one shot at Manny (aside from Morales and Barrera), but you should be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat by the 4th fight. Think so? Again, he did the same thing in this fight, as he did in the previous 3 fights.

Manny made a mistake in the fight, and walked directly into the punch. It was a counterpunch that even Calderon could've put him down with. Manny has always been wreckless, but this time, he was 3 times that. He was even more vulnerable because of the time that the KO occurred...within the last 10 seconds of the fight. That was totally Manny's fault, but he's been known to try and steal rounds...he's been doing that lately.

I'm sure he knew that he was winning the round, and probably thinking, "Shit, let me go ahead and try to soften him up with something before he goes back to t- *BOOM*...and Manny's face down on the canvas. Hard to watch, but he got a bit too overconfident. To think about it, if he was really winning the round, then why feel the need to "steal" the round, especially in the last 10 seconds? Hmm...maybe both guys wanted to convince the judges...but Marquez did that with one punch.

I remember your breakdown of Anderson Silva's speedy weight but...classic...I'll never forget that. I just think that Marquez knew what he had to do, and he did it. He may have been a bit on the counterproductive side with the weightlifting, but he's had 3 chances to fight this guy...they're basically family at this point. It sort of reminds me of Sergio Martinez when he cleaned Williams' clock in the rematch. He caught him the same punch in the first fight, he just had another chance to seal the deal.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.